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This topic contains 989 replies, has 70 voices, and was last updated by  Cinque 7 months, 1 week ago.

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  • Oops! I see that Onel had already posted the same article as I! In any case, the main benefit of 5:2 over conventional calorie restriction is that I’m able to maintain for long periods and have done so for a much greater time span than 50 weeks!

    (They could have turned the headline around on that article Minka: “Conventional dieting no better than IF”)

    Average 10-year-old Has Eaten 18 Years’ Worth of Sugar

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jan/02/average-10-year-old-18-years-worth-of-sugar-public-health-england

    The science of obesity: Is it all in the genes?

    Everywhere you look there’s talk of a new diet… but if you feel the need to shed a few pounds, you might want to listen to this first.

    Dr Giles Yeo

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p06x3g9f

    Carbohydrate quality and human health: a series of systematic reviews and meta-analyses

    (Conclusion: bigger stools, smaller hospitals)

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)31809-9/fulltext

    Articles on this research:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-46827426
    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/jan/10/high-fibre-diets-cut-heart-disease-risk-landmark-study-finds

    Cinque. Interesting. I now know why all of the UK TV news channels chose yesterday to tell us that we don’t eat enough fibre. Some of them even gave advice on what to eat to get more fibre but mostly it was pretty superficial.

    Hi penquin. You mentioned the word “Fibre”. The importance of fibre seems to have been forgotten as a result of the plethoria of diets, diet cook books and food programmes over the last 15 yrs or so. Even the recent Blue Zones research does not seem to mention the importance of fibre in a way we should sit up and take notice but pushes towards a low meat, high plant based diet.
    Back in 2006 Audrey Eyton published a book called “the F2 cook book” (Bantam Press).
    In it she mentioned the importance of gut bacteria, both good and bad and how eating a diet high in fibre is the way to good health. While packed with high fibre recipes she failed to give information on the nutritional breakdown in terms of calories, protein, fibre etc. The book, popular and a best seller quickly seemed to disappear and is now forgotten by dieticians and nutritionalists.
    Eyton seemed to have been ahead of her time in some respects and I believe her book is worth a re visit. You may be able to pick it up on Amazon or your local library.
    Good luck out there.

    Couscous, I have never seen “The F2 Cookbook” but decades ago I toyed with a regime called “The F Plan Diet”. I no longer have that book, but I still have “Wholefood Cooking” which does pretty much what it says. That was published in1981, which judging from the age of taxi firm’s business card I was using as a book mark is probably when I got it. I am all for fibre, as long as the result still has flavour. One of my my favourite cookery books is called “Goosefat and garlic”, both of which I used earlier this evening in the production of a meal with plenty of vegetable fibre..

    A lot of research has been done into the gut biome in the US and UK in recent years and the importance of fibre is well understood, which is why I was a little surprised at the current excitement – it is old news really.

    I will see if I can find the “F2 Cookbook”.

    Hi penquin, you remember well and have tweaked my grey matter. Audrey Eyton did in fact write the fore runner to the F2 cook book called “The F-Plan Diet. I will try to research the book you mention. I agree with you fibre really is old news.
    I really do think in the present climate all recipes published in any form should include certain core dietary information.
    Good luck out there.

    The first science-based diet that tackles both the poor food eaten by billions of people and averts global environmental catastrophe has been devised. It requires huge cuts in red meat-eating in western countries and radical changes across the world.

    The “planetary health diet” was created by an international commission seeking to draw up guidelines that provide nutritious food to the world’s fast-growing population. At the same time, the diet addresses the major role of farming – especially livestock – in driving climate change, the destruction of wildlife and the pollution of rivers and oceans.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jan/16/new-plant-focused-diet-would-transform-planets-future-say-scientists

    As a dietary suggestion that comes pretty close to Valter Longo’s research results on longevity. Makes sense on both counts, I just can’t see it happening. As a species we tend not to care enough about the rest of the world to make any changes that require a sacrifice on our part – I live in a country where there are TV programmes about third world poverty and advertisements for double burgers topped with six rashers of bacon.

    That’s a good point Penguin,
    But we need to have a well researched, science backed goal before we even try to make changes. This gives us that.
    And then we have to work in small steps. This article https://theconversation.com/how-to-feed-a-growing-population-healthy-food-without-ruining-the-planet-108994 gives 5 strategies that can all be started on in small ways, or worked towards through legislation.
    And I think the best strategy is to make it easy for people to change their habits. (My community food project aims to do exactly this so please invest one of your spare millions in helping us get started 😉 )

    Yours sincerely Pollyanna
    I mean Cinque

    Our TV evening news has just laid on a table what that amount of food actually looks like. That is one third of an egg per day or one hamburger per week or one steak per month. The President of the country with the greatest per capita consumption of red meat does not believe in global warning. Good luck Pollyanna!

    Don’t tempt me Cinque.

    Exercise Alters Gut Microbiota Composition and Function in Lean and Obese Humans

    https://insights.ovid.com/pubmed?pmid=29166320

    A small initial study:

    Drinking soda after exercise could damage kidneys

    https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/324216.php

    Researchers find high fat diet may increase risk of Listeria infections

    https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2019/01/researchers-find-high-fat-diet-may-increase-risk-of-listeria-infections/

    Oops, had to delete old news.

    Notwithstanding your deletion, your post was still available in my email in box. So I followed the link. The interesting statistic is that the number of diagnosed gluten intolerant people is tiny in proportion to the number of people who follow gluten free diets. It is the same here.

    This morning I read a recipe for an apple and fennel salad. In it was freekeh. I had to google freekeh. It is “the new must have grain which will knock quinoa off your rice cooker”. I shall restore normality by reading a chapter of “Goosefat and Garlic”

    Hi penguin, I found the book you mentioned on Amazon. The Sainsbury Book of Wholefood Cooking by Carole Handslip. I got it second hand at a very low price. It cost 99p when first published in 1981. Obviously very much dated now but some interesting recipes.

    Couscous. “Very dated” could be a description of me. I thinned out my collection of cookery books last year but kept that one. I can’t remember when I last used it but it takes up very little space. It may be an age thing (everything else is!) but I find that the books I refer to are usually the older ones. Having re-thought that last sentence, it is more correct to say that I like the old fashioned ones. I still collect new recipes and buy new books, as long as they require some contribution from me. Any recipe that says “take a pack of….” rapidly loses my interest.

    Thank you, Cinque, for that article on gluten. My daughter has celiac disease and I am very aware of the problems she has (and me when I have to cook for her). However, in the last two years, the grocery stores in the U.S. have definitely jumped on the gluten free bandwagon! They now have whole isles for just gluten free foods. While I don’t seem to have any discernible problems with gluten, I have been shocked in the rise in how much gluten is in our packed goods, since the 1990s. I find this so disturbing because I don’t think adding something as a preservative that isn’t essential is horrendous. I also think that the rising amounts of gluten in our packaged foods will mean more people who were fine before will react to its presence. I try to eat clean, so I think I generally don’t get as much of it as people who eat more packaged foods. Oh, well! The world is changing and maybe I am getting older but I think some things were better before, such as how and what we eat!

    Here is the article. It is 2 years old, which is why I deleted it, but it is an interesting piece of research.

    “Professor Peter Gibson and his team set out to determine whether gluten causes problems in people who do not suffer from coeliac disease. The team found that short-chain carbohydrates called FODMAPs, not gluten, might be triggering symptoms such as bloating and stomach pain. The results have put some scientifically valid findings in this controversial area.”

    https://nhmrc.gov.au/about-us/news-centre/gluten-punishment-challenging-non-coeliac-gluten-sensitivity

    Penguin I borrowed a book from the library the other day called ‘Coconut Every Day’ looking forward to lots of recipes. In the forward the author says she was asked how she could fill a whole book with coconut recipes and she answered “I’m sure it is going to be the next big thing” (It is from a few years ago when coconut oil was the in thing). Yes, the recipes were as disappointing as you would imagine.

    Ccco, it is crazy isn’t it. And it doesn’t seem to be going away. A big money earner for food companies.

    Skipping breakfast may help you lose weight – what hunter gatherers can teach us

    https://theconversation.com/skipping-breakfast-may-help-you-lose-weight-what-hunter-gatherers-can-teach-us-109840

    Thank you for both those articles, Cinque. I read both of them and they were both helpful! 🙂

    https://www.cbc.ca/radio/whitecoat/doctors-who-champion-low-carb-high-fat-diets-go-against-the-grain-1.4974730
    Podcast

    Both physicians are part of Canadian Clinicians for Therapeutic Nutrition (CCTN). Loffelmann is a founder, and Berchuk is the scientific advisor.

    They believe so strongly that LCHF is beneficial for both weight loss and treating diseases related to obesity, their mission as part of CCTN is to spread awareness and acceptance of the diet.

    That’s a challenge, considering the diet contradicts some of the currently accepted thinking on nutrition.

    The latest update of Canada’s Food Guide, a draft of which was previewed this week, doubles down on whole grains and advises limiting saturated fat.

    bcjmmac. I followed your link and read the summary. All research is interesting, but I would need a lot of persuading to go that route.

    Penguin – submitted to forum as info. I tend to stay away from the “cult like” aspects of most diets & some of the associated beliefs that aren’t backed up by science. I wouldn’t recommend that anyone follow a keto diet all the time, think it has benefits but isn’t for everyone.
    Personally I believe moderation is the best policy in most things. There are lots of ways to follow a keto diet – fasting being one of them (can also do a vegan keto if so inclined) & I don’t believe you have to follow one all the time to get benefits. I tried a very low carb (less than 20g/day) for a few weeks when in my weight shedding phase – wanted to see how it felt & more importantly to remind my body how to to use fat as primary fuel. These days, I only do keto around fast days (limit carbs) IOT maximize insulin sensitivity, fat burn, autophagy, other benefits. Rest of the time I limit sugar, processed foods, etc & don’t limit saturated fat (try to exclude as most polyunsaturated/trans fat as possible) – all the stuff the nutrition experts told us were good post WWII. Works for me but YMMV
    Added; 2 of my grandsons follow a strict keto diet – they are breastfed. 😉

    bcjmmac. I don’t know what is happening – I can read your last post as an email but it hasn’t appeared here. Over many years I have tried just about every form of diet known to man. Most of them worked, at least in the short term, although sometimes with undesirable side effects – bad breath and constipation in the case of one expensive meal replacement that is still on the market. Some of them were well researched, some traditional, some just the latest fad. I did the keto, or a form of it, before it became known as that. My OH was for a time a believer in the low fat approach, which worked, as long as you could live with a fairly taste free diet. We have both been at the 5:2 since it started, and have evolved our own approach to it. We stay within the calorie limits, but the main emphasis for us is to eat real food. I am quite happy to cook with goose fat but the ingredients have to be real things, not something already processed out of a packet.

    Can’t argue with that. Cheers

    Health Check: do we really need to take 10,000 steps a day?

    https://theconversation.com/health-check-do-we-really-need-to-take-10-000-steps-a-day-109079

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2018/11/16/weight-lifting-better-heart-health-running-new-study-finds/

    Not too surprising for me. I can tell by the way my heart rate responds while lifting.

    http://igodl.com/secret-fruit-for-losing-weight/
    This guy discover the fruit we all nee to avoid if we want to lose weight
    Hope it’s Help

    Bos, maybe go through these steps before you post again: https://blogs.unimelb.edu.au/sciencecommunication/2013/08/24/6-signs-of-bad-science-a-field-spotters-guide/

    1. Check the Source

    Is the source material published in a reputable peer-reviewed journal? If not, don’t trust it. Just because something is published doesn’t mean it’s good science – the system isn’t foolproof and sometimes dodgy science gets through – but it is a good gatekeeper. Luckily, science is generally self-correcting, and dodgy papers can be retracted.

    2. Widespread criticism of the research

    If the majority response from the scientific community is criticism of the methodology, there is probably something wrong. Scientists follow strict guidelines in how experiments are performed. If you don’t follow scientific methods, the results are not reliable. Bonus points for if the authors respond to criticism by claiming they are the target of a conspiracy scientists worldwide are involved in to make money!

    3. Unqualified people

    It seems ridiculous, but it’s worth checking that the people making the claims are actually qualified to do the research. For example, the pathology in a study isn’t going to be very reliable if you don’t have a pathologist (and yes, as hard as it is to believe, that very thing has actually happened).

    4. Refusing to the repeat the experiment with a larger group

    This one’s a dead give-away. Science is all about testing hypotheses, and part of that is making sure your experiments can be repeated and confirmed. If the researcher refuses to repeat the experiment, there is something dodgy going on.

    5. Claims not supported by the results

    Sometimes, dodgy people will claim their data supports their conclusions, even when it does not. It’s best to look at the results – do they say what the researcher says they say? If they refuse to provide the full results, that’s a pretty big red flag.

    6. Undeclared conflicts of interest

    Science doesn’t exist in a vacuum, and public funding is limited. There is nothing to worry about in research being privately funded, so long as the methodology is sound, the science is good, and the funding is declared. On the other hand, undisclosed financial links and other conflicts of interest are a huge problem. After all, if it was not declared, what are we meant to think but that it was something to hide? And if they lied about that, what else did they lie about?

    DDog. Always good to have our beliefs confirmed. This morning I am off to the weight room for the second time this week. Because I enjoy it, I am also keeping the open air cardio going.

    Cinque. Far too much poor science gets published. I remember years ago we operated on the maxim “we weigh witnesses, we do not count them”. Today the number of papers an individual publishes seems to be the yardstick, not what they add to our knowledge or the rigour that leads to that result.

    When we where young we ran every day but we didn’t call it running we called it playing! LOL Great interval training! Tag, hide and seek, football, basketball all sprint and rest. In HS our coaches had us run “wind sprints” or “gassers”. Sprint the length of the football field or basketball court walk back and repeat. They didn’t call it HIIT but that’s what it was. Brutal and very effective. Even on the track team the longest race was 1 mile!

    This 5k, 10k, marathon silliness didn’t start till the 70’s

    Yes and no. We didn’t have any electronic toys and were more active However, in the 1950s my school had a compulsory every one does it run they described as a cross country. It was many years ago, but my unreliable memory suggests that it was about three miles and some of it was on tarmac. Much of my military training consisted of moving across hilly country under time and other pressures but we also ran a lot. I agree that running has become fashionable rather than a chore, but I have to admit that although I am not built like a runner, after a couple of miles I get into the swing and things happen. The endorphins kick in and my mind either does good rational thinking or goes walk-about and I am miles away. In my old age, six miles is the distance that works for me.

    I seem to remember we had this conversation a couple of years ago. I am with you on the benefit of weights, but I also value running. It is one of the few things on which we differ.

    The problem with just weight lifting (or just using your body body, push ups, pull ups, etc) is that you can’t really do it hard most days. Over training can be a real issue. That is where some cardio can fit in, running, biking, stair work, swimming, etc. However too much cardio can also be detrimental. It is a balance.

    Also running long distances has actually been around for thousands of years. It didn’t just start in the 70’s. Like fasting, it is was just something people did as needed. It has only been over the last couple centuries that people haven’t had to depend on using their feet as much. The silliness that started in the 70’s was that eating fat was killing us and we should be eating more refined sugar. 😉 Now excessive body fat is truly killing a lot of people.

    Agreed, over training can be an issue. Indeed according to the recent research I have seen, most of us do it. For once the experts and researchers are in agreement. It seems that one good weights session per week is enough to maintain strength and fitness and make progress. A second is useful, but doesn’t return the same improvement as the first and the third gives yet less. Diminishing returns kick in very early. That is not to say that several sessions each week will not have an impact, but nowhere near as much as we all thought. The current suggestion is that if we weight train more than twice a week we are doing it because we like it or because the small improvements that brings are important to us. Twenty five years ago when I was running half marathons it was said that anyone who runs more than 45 minutes three times a week was doing it because they liked running, not for fitness.

    I type this with some residual tiredness around my shoulders from a serious weights session this morning. It was the second this week, there has also been a Pilates workout, some aerobic treadmill work and some forest walking. For me, this seems about the right balance., although I am tempted by a third weights session.

    @penguin – Interesting that even one hard workout a week would be enough to maintain. I have found for myself that mixing up the works not only reduces the soreness but also least likely to drive me insane. For me the exercise isn’t enjoyable, just the effects from exercising are nice.

    Combining morning exercise with short walking breaks helps control blood pressure in older overweight/obese adults, especially in women

    https://newsroom.heart.org/news/combining-morning-exercise-with-short-walking-breaks-helps-control-blood-pressure-in-older-overweightobese-adults-especially-in-women?preview=c3b9

    Thanks for sharing @cinque. Despite extensive research showing consuming too much protein is bad for human health, very few people seem to accept it!

    Eating a lot of fiber could improve some cancer treatments

    (The same can’t be said for taking probiotics, researchers suggest)

    https://www.sciencenews.org/article/eating-lot-fiber-could-improve-some-cancer-treatments

    Surprise, surprise.
    https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/possible-carcinogen-found-in-french-fries-potato-chips-and-other-foods-study-1.4326585
    According to Health Canada, acrylamide is not intentionally added to food, but “is a chemical that naturally forms in certain foods, particularly plant-based foods that are rich in carbohydrates and low in protein, during processing or cooking at high temperatures” for extended periods

    Fibre has huge benefits, and we’re not getting enough of it: Health Report Podcast 7mins

    https://radio.abc.net.au/programitem/pg4V08omYV?play=true

    Sugary drinks linked to higher risk of premature death, especially for women, study says

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/18/health/sugary-drinks-premature-death-women-study/index.html

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