TDEE and the future – 0:7 diet

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TDEE and the future – 0:7 diet

This topic contains 97 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Lichtle 8 years, 7 months ago.

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  • Yessss. Goldbären. Love them! The white ones are my favorites and then the red. Yours? The yellow ones are not my preferred “race” 😀

    Aaaah, I’d love to have some now ^^

    Food combining and 5:2 is what I did last year and it also suited me very well. In that time I ate a lot of my 3-nuts-cake with quark. Have not made that in months, though. Guess I ate it a bit too often.

    Doing water fasts makes me very tired early. Today as well. And I always wake up super early, too. Always. I read the other day that in former times people had a night that was divided by a wakening hour. So they slept four hours, got up for about an hour or two, then slept the second four… Maybe doing the ADF triggers old patterns in the ancient parts of my being/body… not only the old way of not eating several times daily yet also sleeping differently…

    Great to read about your decision for Friday. I will think of you. It helps me to see the hunger feelings as waves of ebb and flow. Right now I could eat a horse if you know what I mean…

    Have a nice evening
    (: M

    A happy day to you, too. 😉 great voices.

    It is an eating day for you today, yippeeeeee. Personal contract stuck on the fridge and off you go – enjoy!!!

    I never heard of this waking hour in ancient times. It just doesn’t make sense to me. They couldn’t see anything at night, most of the year it was cold, going outside was too dangerous. What would they do for an hour without any light source? Meditate? Pray? In today’s world we can get up, read a book or watch TV, clean the kitchen you name it…. ;-).

    I am feeling very good today after I managed to stay below 500 cals yesterday by only having a few small apples for the remaining day. This resulted in me being hungry this morning (but in a good way – not starving) so I had two rashers of bacon and 1 egg for breakfast, no carbs. I am now 1 lb off my maintenance weight. By staying very low carb today, doing food combining below TDEE AND doing a water fast tomorrow, I hope that by Monday, or at least by the end of next week, I shall be at maintenance again. I just need a bit of back bone like you. 😉

    But seriously, I am always surprised how easy and at the same time how difficult fasts or food combining can be. Once I am in the mental groove, I can’t for he life of me understand what the problem was all about these past months. Have a happy day, indeed


    Good to read that you are in a groove! And great, that you are only 1 lb off MW (maintenance weight). I will not have a weigh-in before end of November, I guess. Just don’t feel like seeing any numbers on the scale (at the pharmacy’s) right now 😎 My waist circumference is shrinking again, the summer jeans (seize 27 is still too narrow, that is information enough).

    Just fancy, I had zero chocolate this week so far. Ha! I can do feast days without again. Glad I do.

    I just reread the part with the sleep. According to Becker it was called the “first” and the “second sleep”. It was in times before electricity. And, yes, church wanted people to pray and there were special books for this cause. People went to bed much earlier than we do nowadays. And they read in the light of candles for instance. (I do not know his source of information.)

    Ah, the insulin aware food combining à la Detlef Pape allows, even “demands” carbs in the morning. Eggs are “not allowed” according to his WON. Milk and cheese aren’t either. That is why I started to use tiny bits of cream in my coffee (and still do). Sticking to SiS (Schlank im Schlaf) strictly had me lose my first 10 kilos before I was introduced to fasting.

    Yep, you’re so right: It is so easy when it feels easy and so hard on other occasions/phases. The good thing is that we do not destroy our success again. That is the best about it. The awareness and finding solutions for the wagon-fall-offs…

    Oh happy day… oh happy evening… oooooooooh yeah 😀

    Well done, for abstaining from chocolate. I wish I could say the same. Yesterday lunch time I went next door to Lidl to get some Yoghurt and couldn’t get past the Lebkuchen. Now until a couple of years ago, things like that and Stollen and Spekulatius had to be brought back from Germany and now I have got it next door!!!!!! Terrible. So I ate 5 of those round 5cm circles and in the evening some Stollen from a previous weak shopping. All is gone now and today I am doing a water fast. It is now 16.00 and I am hungry but not too bad. The problem for me is coming home from work – having supper is a ritual, a reward for the day. Let’s see how I cope tonight.

    Why does Pape demand carbs for breakfast? I thought it didn’t matter what order your meals came. Mind you I am not complaining because traditionally, I grew up with bread and jam or honey for breakfast and that is the only thing that feels like breakfast to me. Noone in my (extended) family ate anything else. My brother and I laugh when we recall the horror in our minds when we realised that other people had ham, sausage, cheese and eggs (savoury) things for breakfast. Our world came tumbling down. What morons were there in the world ha, ha. Unbelievable. How as a child you think how your family does things is how everybody does it.

    There is a wonderful English saying: “The whole world seems daft to me, save you and me – but even you seem daft to me.” ;-)) I heard it from an old lady and the older I get the more I say it. ;-))

    Good morning,
    Lichtle (and who reads this 🙂 )

    how was the last part of your day? Just curious, no “controlling” here 🙂 It helps me to “report” so maybe you share this attitude. Hi hi, a virtual Beichtstuhl, sort of 😎 I am kidding.

    I had a bad day yesterday. Fast was okay but I was very upset and stressed out (because of “that person” again, things are escalating now.) I find it very hard to balance my need to stand up for myself when treated in a narcissistic way and my need to stay out of unhealthy energies/trouble that harm me. I am forced to deal with this person, so I have to relate somehow. And the world is full of “people like that” as well…

    Sigh, that is such a toughy sometimes. Yesterday it was. All attempts to cool down failed. I sang. I rode my bike. I used self-hypnosis tools. No way…

    What do you do when you are really stressed by a situation/person? I mean instead of calming down with unhealthy coping patterns oneself… If I may ask that? And especially: How do you decide where to let your energy flow – self-assertion or self-protection? Could I do what I want I would instantly get out of the situation and leave all that behind. I can not.

    Hey, I perfectly understand about the Lidl temptations. Last year I ate a lot of Lebkuchen and stuff. This year I want to cut down on it, though. So I will wait until December before I buy X-Mas goodies. (At least that is my plan 😎 )
    Today is a feast day, one of that WF – Feast – WF -weekends again.

    It is funny how our body adjusts to fasting. In the first months I felt dizzy and could not get up quickly. Now there is no such feeling anymore. We human beings are real creatures of habit, eh ^^

    I am wishing a wonder-ful weekend

    I know that my quetion is personal and I also have your e-mail-offer in mind. I just think that many of us are confronted with questions like that… that is why I am seeking this way of talking in public without being too public (if this makes any sense 😀 )

    Hi Mahalo, I DID IT!!!!! ??? I was hungry (not too badly). but my biggest desire to eat didn’t come from my body but from my mind. So I reasoned with myself that if I ate a little bit, I would still want to eat more.. So I made a “decision” and stayed out of the kitchen.

    DH came home and made himself the most intense smelling curry with all the trimmings. I imagined (and it helped) that he made it too hot for me to eat and that I could eat the leftovers tomorrow. I woke up at 2am and for the first time felt really hungry and tempted to get up and eat something. Luckily eating at night has never been an issue for me so I went back to sleep. When I woke up at 7 I felt less hungry. It is now 8.45 am and I don’t know what to do….to eat or not to eat….?

    I can relate to your situation of anger and frustration. In these situations I have this internal dialogue going on in my head and it is set on constant repeat – a seemingly endless loop. I have situations that happened years ago that can still trigger this looping head dialogue. It is so frustrating and pointless and I have a way to break the cycle. I pondered for a while if I should reply to your direct question, how I deal with these situations and decided to go ahead.

    The way for me to break the cycle is to pray – especially the Our Father …”and forgive me as I forgive others”…. often I admitted that I couldn’t forgive yet but that God may do this for me until one day I can forgive.
    It is not some magic spell and the negative dialogue will come back again and again until it gets less. A friend of mine is in AA and in her language she hands over her situation to a higher power and can therefore get on better with her life not feeling she has to do it all by herself. It is similar for me but I believe in a personal God.

    This may not be at all helpful to you but you asked.

    37 hrs without food… I think I will have some coffee with bread with honey mmmm ?

    37 hours, wheeeeew!!! 😀 YAY! That is fantastic and I am happy with you. So this energy… taken, saved and put into the next one… and next… I always find this first so powerful and motivating. Like an anchor (from the self-hypnosis/hypnosis field).

    Thank you for sharing, Lichtle. I do appreciate it and I can very well relate to what you wrote. I have a “God’s Box” on my vertiko. Was inspired to this by a card from a Doreen Virtue card deck – you are supposed to place your sorrows in that box. I wrote the name down on a piece of paper and put it there in order to keep my weekend as free as possible. Wow, and now you write something similar. Prayer and connecting with the spiritual energy fields helps me, too. I also talk to my wooden Buddha sometimes and ask him to share his peace and calmness non-judgemental aura with me… 🙂

    Hey, enjoy your day and meals 😀 It was really nice to read your message!



    Oooh, ooooh, a miracle 😀

    Just fancy what has just arrived in my mailbox: from TED talks – Daniel Levitin: How to stay calm when you know you’ll be stressed. Isn’t the universe supportive… I have not seen it yet. I am so happy this came in. It will help me for my next meeting… going to watch it tomorrow.


    Good morning 🙂

    a third post in a row… just watched the TED talk. Interesting viewpoint delivered there! So I will prepare even better for my next encounter with the person that makes my heart beat faster and my cortisol raise…

    I am also working on my standpoint – yep, literally! My plan: I will awarely put my feet on the ground even when sitting. Feel the floor (earth) underneath strongly and consciously. Then attention to my voice and speed of talking. When I am upset I tend to speak like a strict/harsh governess. The more I do that the more upset I get. Bad cycle, indeed. My plan: to talk as slowly and calmly as I can. Sticking to the facts only. Facts are on my side – measurably and factually. If this will not help I am going to demand to talk to someone from the next level of that company.

    This is and will be a challenge. I am ready to meet it. Even if I am failing this time I am ready to stand up for myself in a prepared and brave way.

    Back to fasting (although these things are intertwined for me – stress and eating, drinking as unhealthy coping strategies to come down again).

    Something I forgot yesterday: I had some weekend-treats :-q (yum! 😎 ). 50 g of Gummibärchen. Half a bar of Ritter Sport, yes, Lichtle, trust your eyes, half a bar only hi hi. One more time I feel affirmed that alcohol – even in small doses – makes me crave fat and sugar (and carbs) in an unhealthy way. The absence of it makes me able to keep those cravings in check. So it is a good training to handle all these drugs awarely with the benefit of ruling in my own brain, stomach and metabolism 😀

    have a wonder-ful day
    Queen Mahalo 😉

    Hi Queenie ?. Happy fast day.
    What phantastic progress with regards to unhealthy food. Half a bar of chocolates and 50g??? of Gummibärchen – that’s just a mouthful. ?
    I don’t know what triggers my sweet tooth but I am now convinced that even that is, like fasting, in the head. Luckily, I don’t care much for alcohol apart from really bad stuff like Baileys, sweet liqueurs or desert wine. So I only have it veeeeery occasionally. One Christmas I made some Baileys myself and realising just how much cream went into the drink, put me off. Maybe I should make more of the stuff I crave at home and be thoroughly put off. ?

    I am reading with interest your preparation to the stressful situation and I had a few instant thoughts.
    I am sure all your strategies will be beneficial and please let me know how you get on with them not necessarily if they got you the result with your “opponent” but in terms how you felt.

    I have not watched the talk, yet but I can’t help but wonder if you could employ any strategy like mentally rub your tummy and press your lips together would help the situation because your concentration is not fixed on your opponent or the unpleasant situation but focuses on yourself which is what matters. Maybe staying stood up during your meeting could help?

    I think it is important, though to self observe. When I get angry my voice goes two ways:
    1. very low with slow speech almost emulating a man. This happens mainly at work where I subconsciously mirror my opponent.
    2. At home my voice goes up and a bit louder (so they tell me) faster and I repeat myself dreadfully.

    When I get attacked (someone has a go at me) I look them in the eye and say nothing simply because I feel threatened and afraid and I don’t know what to say and let them run out of steam. I need time to think about the validity of their accusations because initially I feel guilty. But then when I have had time to think about it I often reject their accusations and then start getting angry in return (belatedly) which is not good. I don’t know why I am so slow in these situations because I am alway very quick thinking for other people and I can hear meself saying “…you should have said….”

    However you have had time to think about this situation so you are in a very good position. When is your next meeting? Let me know how you get on.

    🙂 Lichtle,

    thanks for your thoughts and sharing! Next weekend I will write more about how things go/went.

    Yesterday I finally saw a physician concerning my inflammation in my hand. I know the reason for the pain now – ganglion. I was prescribed a splint. Have never had something like this before. (Am thankful for that in retrospective!) Some movements are really painful. It is a small one, not visible with the eye yet the location is triggering pain.

    Today I watched the movie “The Chef”. Geee, on a WF not such a great idea 😎 I have been really hungry all day. I mean rrrrrreally! Then I saw the food in that film. There is this scene where Jean Reno makes breakfast for his daughter. Oooooooh, my mouth was watering…

    I like what you wrote about home made Baileys 😀 I should follow your example. Just to fake some Gummibärchen by pouring only the sugar into a bowl should stop me…

    Are you going to have another WF any day in the future? Did you enjoy the feeling of proudness for doing it? This is one of the things I like a lot about the WF.

    Guess I will go to bed early again. One of the WF laws is: being tired early, waking up early. Hope it won’t be 4 a.m. again. Last time I got up at 4… That is too early to start the day I find and hope I can sleep longer tomorrow 🙂

    Have a nice evening

    Just as you wake up from your WF and contemplate what to have for breakfast, I shall enter my SECOND Water fast and I will make sure not to watch anything to do with food. I intend to do another one on Friday because next week I won’t be able to fast as we are going on a mini holidyay to Cornwall with stepson and family. After that I will do one 400 cal fast at the beginning of the week (Mondays or Tuesdays) and one on Fridays.

    I am sorry to hear you are in pain with a ganglion. What caused it? Is it a repetitive strain sort of thing? Does your cycling have anything to do with it or is it from holding all those many book or kindle at night in bed? ?

    Oh concerning Gummibaerchen, I advise to put one in a glass of water over night in the hope that it might put you off. it is a bit disgusting but not enough to put me off ??

    ha ha
    like that little one -> ?

    Happy Water Flowing Fasting, Lichtle! I am wishing you the best. You’re almost through today, aren’t you. Okay, evening challenge is ahead. Flow Flow Flow! (Instead of go go go 😀 )

    Really, I do not know where the hack I got that ganglion from. It is my left (?!) hand. No, riding my bike does not demand my hand, holding books neither. I still prefer the haptic real book, ya know 😎 Ganglion… Reminded me of the German verb “gängeln” and yessss, there are quite a few circumstances and people gängeling on me 😎 or so I feel/perceive it.

    Lichtle, I did check the pharmacy’s scale today (I know I know I did not want to do that before December). There must be something with my 3 liter of water input (I’ve been sticking to that all the time) and the “weight gain”… otherwise I can not explain my “putting on”.

    Remember when I told about the German TV-journalist who did a self-test (on the other thread that was)? After four weeks of drinking 3 liters of water daily (beside eating normally) she had minus 5 cm waist circumference yet the same weight as before? I still do not get it why it worked that way and what the reasons were. I even wrote to RTL television to get a medical/scientific explanation for the stagnating weight flanked by WC-shrinking yet only got a really unfriendly (non)answer.

    Hey, I am not trying to betray myself yet it is not possible that I had a fat gain of 4 kg. Not even with my cheat days that have gone now. It simply is not possible. The scales say plus 4 kg, though. My narrowest jeans say: now way you gained 4 kg.

    I do not want to bore you… I am just confused (and I hate to see the kg raise or not go down anymore).

    Not a real problem when we look at the real problems of the world. At the doc’s I saw a poster that made me grin: Ist mir egal. Mir ist es zwar nicht egal, aber egal… (I don’t care. I do care, of course, but I don’t care anyway. Or so I’d translate that… guess it only makes sense in German that way…)

    Have a brave WF

    Ah, today was a good day, I woke up at 6 o’clock, not 4, not 5, yay!

    @lichtle and Mahalo – Just stumbled upon this thread and i’ve got to say really refreshing and nice despite the initial hiccup at the beginning you were both able to continue your virtual interactions without offending and going off the rails. Well done – PS didn’t finishing reading the conversations but from the last one i can see that you are now real friends and have a lot in common. Keep it alive.

    Hi foomsy,

    nice to read your feedback and a little belated welcome to the forum 🙂 I saw you joined about two months ago. Best of luck for your 11 stone aim! As a Kraut – hi hi, guess Germans may say that about themselves – I am not used to stones yet I looked it up, about 70 kg, right?

    be strong against the supper-temptations, if not we will comfort you anyway 🙂 My next WF is tomorrow. Well, feast days are over too fast.

    It has become a nice habit to check in here and exchange… it’s my only active thread in the moment…


    @Hi foomsey, thanks for dropping in and good luck to you. You seem to be doing very well on the 5:2 diet.

    @mahalo – Confession time:

    1. I gave up the waterfast
    2. I gave up the fast

    It started at 1pm when I had a soup and then I suffered from the famous “oh well that’s it – fast broken I might as well eat Mount Everest. So I proceeded to eat a natural yoghurt with linseeds followed by 150g of mixed nuts from Lidl. When I got home late after Yoga, I had a piece of toast with tomato salad.
    Oh well, I will give it another go on Friday and I know I will succeed.

    I haven’t the foggiest, why your scales have gone up. Surely, when you drink too much the body gets rid of any excess quickly. Could you have gained muscle or are the scales just not that accurate? Maybe you have some internal, invisible ganglions ??????. Believe in your trousers. ???
    Mahalo, I have no idea why I am in such a silly mood, maybe I am losing it….. Take are…

    😀 humo(u)r is the best anyway. Doing fasts or doing anything… (I need mine, too, tons of it right now. Will report later, weekend most likely.)

    Busy day ahead, WF again. Just dropped in to say: You are granted absolution… confessed and forgiven (hi hi, kidding)

    Have a good day 🙂

    I was in a rush this morning. So I did not get the invisible ganglions. The one I have is really painful, so – merci on me – please no fantasies of having more of them ?

    I will stop thinking about that water/gain issue now. I am boring myself even ^^

    Have not tried the devil smiley yet, no clue how it will appear.

    Nice evening I am very tired again…

    … It’s just that I read that they are little knots filled with water that can be visible or invisible, painful or not at all. but I really don’t have any fantasies about them. ?????

    Another WF attempt today.

    how’s it going/flowing? 🙂

    Wish you a good attempt without a ttemp tation 🙂

    Waterfasts are so great for reframing and rebuilding the mere joy of food (to me). I am having an eating day today and Sunday, yay 😀 One of those two-feast-day-weekends. Jibbieh. The zero one zero one combination has a different approach to me combined with different feelings attached to it than 5:2. In the meantime it was my 41st WF and it is getting easier with every new one passing. Okay, what winter time and cold will bring… no idea.

    Have a good day

    I did it again. It is now 9pm and there is no danger of me ruining this now. Physically it is not such a great deal but psychologically it is quite hard to not have I plan on doing a 0 cal fast once a week on Fridays and a 400 cal fast on Mondays and hope to establish a bit of a routine that way.
    Next week will be a challenge as we are going on holiday with family. i hope that I can skip a few meals without impacting on the others.

    I hope all went well with your meeting and I am glad you have two eating days to cheer you up. If there is internet connection where we are going, I will post next week.
    Take care.

    Great, Lichtle!

    What is the psychological barrier for you? Is it the “prohibition” to eat? I am interested to know about your feelings/thoughts on a 0. If I may ask that.

    This past week was full of adrenaline for me. Things have “escalated” in a silent, subtle and still ongoing aggressive way (mostly passive-aggressive). The person forced a conversation on me that I did not want to have (and I said so explicitly). The person answered: “But I do!” Usually I am the one who can set the borders (again, it is not therapy yet an interaction based “support offer”). Money is paid by a third party (and it is not little money). So I want a professional treatment. Not more, not less.

    Afer that disrespectful incident I wrote an e-mail to the organization. To protect the confidentiality of both the person and myself I used a neutral e-mail-address. I asked for a contact person. And what did they do? Forwarded my e-mail to guess-whom… ☠

    Next time I met the person things had changed. Of course P knew who had written the e-mail. Now P’s boss did know “something”, too. That was not my intention yet I did not set the frame. Then, after a good session, I was offered an alternative person to work with. Back and forth. Result: The alternative person did not have any one hour for me. I am obliged to have weekly sessions, though.

    This felt like: You have no choice, make your choice now. Wollen die mich komplett verschaukeln?! That was what I thought. So I wrote another e-mail, with my full name this time and told them that I would go and see the financier of this next week. Unless… 😎

    …there is a solution that I could not think of because I do not know their hierarchies, structures and so on.

    BAAAM. Boss wrote. Boss excused themselves for the things happening. Now P and I will – after a somewhat clearing conversation – go on. And you know what, it felt just great to stand up for myself. It did not feel great physically, though, because I was full of adrenaline and stress hormones. I had a rock in my stomach. My heart raced. Feeling/being verarscht is nothing I can deal with very well. It upsets me to be treated without any respect. That is an issue I need to work on. I am aware. For my own sake I need to learn alternative strategies… otherwise I will get a heartattack one day. (In the true meaning of the word for I really feel my heart being attacked by s*** like that 🙁 I “may not” give those people so much power, though.)

    Now I am really very curious to have the next meeting. I am not sure how much of P’s words were honest. It does not matter to me, though. Important is that I set a healthy boundary – only the way to get there was not so healthy – and stick to it. And I did not run off yet face the challenge…

    That was my promised report.

    Hey, I am wishing you a lovely trip with your dear ones! Holiday sounds great… enjoy 😀


    Verarscht… it does not matter whether they are doing it on purpose or by accident… a solution offered that is no solution makes things worse. Not only for me (I suppose) yet for all solution-seekers, uh?

    Hi Mahalo
    You seemed to have had a very stressful week and had to fight very hard to be heard but what an achievement. Well done. I understand that you can’t quite believe this person is sincere but time will tell. It would have been better if you could have had a new start with another person so you can deal with the things you came for. Good luck to you.

    I can’t really explain the psychological urges to eat. I just wanted to get up and eat something but then I rationalised that I could not just eat a soup or a small thing, I would want keep going. This was only an issue between 6pm and 9pm after that my brain went into night mode even though I didn’t actually go to bed until 11pm.

    We were supposed to have gone on holiday today but DH work didn’t realise he had been granted holiday and rostered him to work today and and next week including next weekend. He tried to reason with them but they only took the mid week days out and urged him to work this and next weekend as they are short staffed. So instread of having a week there, we now only have 5 days. Initially I was a bit disappointed but then I reasoned that I might be relieved not to have a whole week with step family and little baby especially since there is rain forecast for the whole time. Please think of me as I have to do the hardest thing (for me) – keep my mouth shut and smile. If I can do that, I will be ever so proud. I don’t get on with step son’s wife that well and the little girl is allowed anything. So it will be a time when I have absolutely no opinions and wishes apart from doing my walks every day and have a bit of privacy. My internal mantra shall be: “Nobody is interested in your opinions, keep them to yourself unless you get asked and then be honest” It will be interesting how I cope as I am one of those people who can’t bear silences and step son’s wife doesn’t engage in two way conversations with me – she only answers direct questions as succinctly as possible and then there is silence again. So no conversation fillers for me – I am not responsible for the group. I will let you know how it went.

    I’m off to charge my kindle… Never without a big choice of books when on holiday.

    Wow, challenge-time, isn’t it, Lichtle.

    Not sure whether you are going to read this before you leave: I am wishing you a relaxed and joyful short-week-stay. Hm, I can imagine that a shortage like that is not that funny (especially not for your DH – at such a busy work-place he would most likely have needed the time-off, uh?)

    For your encounter with your step-son’s wife… I will think of you and wish you the best. Aren’t interpersonal exchanges the greatest challenges sometimes… They surely are.

    Have a good time all 🙂

    And – if I am allowed to add one thought from my mind: You. Lichtle, are interested in your opinions and experiences – be they outspoken or kept inside… they are a treasure anyway and you own them… ready to share, ready to keep 😀

    Enjoy your readings. Just finished “Close your eyes” by Michael Robotham. Great! Recommendation in case you like thrillers. I am a big fan of Michael…


    Huhu Lichtle,

    everything okay? I had an internet cut-off from my s****y provider, the second for several days within only months.

    Hope everything went well with the family gatherings and you were able to enjoy yourself.


    Hi Mahalo
    Yes, I am back and all went well, in fact better than I could have imagined, although it wasn’t always easy. The weather too wasn’t as bad as the forecast which basically had predicted rain. We didn’t have rain during the day and therefore could go out every day.

    Well coming back I am exactly the same weight I was when I went. That is the good news. The not so good news is that I am still 1kg above my maintenance weight. 🙂

    Today and on Friday (DH is away today and Friday), I am intending to do a 0 cal fast. I am calling it 0 cal rather than waterfast, as I have coffee in the morning and then migrate to herbal tea for the rest of the day. On top of that I am trying to do a reduced (maybe half TDEE = 700cals) calorie day on Wednesday.

    How are you doing apart from a very annoying outage from internet provider? Are you keeping well? Are you less stressed? Are you still doing alternate day waterfasts?


    I did not get a notification that you posted something… just checked in to have a look just in case… hm… technical conspiracy all over the place, uh.

    Good to “hear” that all went well 🙂 I did think of you and wished you the best.

    Well, strictly taken my waterfasts aren’t waterfasts either. I have coffee (with some cream – Sahne yap, not 0 cal at all ^^^ – in the morning and afternoon) and sometimes Yogi tea in the evening beside the 3 l of water.

    Yes, I am still doing the (almost) 0 cal alternate day fasts. Right now I am a bit ill, caught a bug or something. Feast day today yet I did not eat much because I found fat so disgusting and repelling. Had a headache. Pain in the limbs. Slept almost all day yesterday. Today is better, though.

    Stresswise… I am more stressed than before. P is getting worse (took revenge for my involving the boss). And I had another depressing experience concerning an application. *sigh

    When I think of France everything shrinks in its meaning, doesn’t it…

    I am wishing you a nice evening
    and good 0 flow
    M 🙂

    So sorry to hear that you are feeling unwell. What a shame about your struggle with P – so unnecessary – you were right not to trust the initial response. But mostly I feel for you about your bad news regarding application. Yes, Paris attacks do put our troubles into perspective but what I have learned is that someone’s pain is someone’s pain and can’t be shrunk because someone else is worse off.

    I wish you a peaceful (within yourself) evening.

    Hi Lichtle,

    one of my develepoing “tasks” or “challenges” is to strengthen my Buddha within. Sometimes he is very small and I so often wonder which path to follow: standing up for myself (and others) defying this over (re)present(ed) narcissism or staying away and nurturing peace (within and thus outside).

    You know, I am really fascinated by paradoxes. One paradox I detect in all that stressful energy is: sometimes fighting is the peacefuller action. Sounds strange, is true in my perception. At first glance it is not peaceful to fight and defy. Yet while putting a strong and audible and visible counter-energy against narcissists you protect your inner dignity, your being human and NOT AN OBJECT. In the end your being human can find peace in the fact that you stayed human while others do anything to make your their object. And stay that way.

    P. needs someone who admires them. Who follows them without even noticing all these flaws and dubious acting. P needs someone to be their walking proof of their success. When you question them or something P did you are in an act of resistance. Never would P question themselves, observe themselves, reflect on themselves. Narcissists don’t do things like that. I am 100 percent sure that P is a true blue one. (I am not easily or inconsiderately writing something like this, I am really sure because, alas, I have grown into an expert in that field from childhood on 🙁 )

    Other topic: Still a bit sick but up again and with appetite today. Have not eaten much the past three days because of my bug. Went to the pharmacy’s scales this morning. My belly really flat. I also have my menstruation (after 38 days, gosh, it’s getting all irregular). Still 64.2 kg. So I am really sure now that I can not trust the kg 1:1 anymore. Be it the water or whatever.

    I have a feast day today. And a potentially stressfull appointment this afternoon. Please think of me and wish me luck to woman up and stand my ground. Peacefully at best.

    Here it is superstormy… Me on my bike, even more dangerous than usual.

    Take care and have a nice day – feast or fast or reduced fast

    M 🙂

    And with a wink a quote from my Aussie hero Robotham (Close Your Eyes):

    Lion’s Gaze
    When you throw a stick to a dog, the dog will chase the stick.
    When you throw a stick to a lion, the lion will chase you.

    Guess who is the lion and who thought they threw the stick to a dog… 😎
    ha ha, I will visualize exactly that when I go upstairs…

    Mahalo LL

    It is over and I am sooo happy, Lichtle. One source of permanent stress dried out (almost) peacefully. P is history. I said to them that the process is over for me. P got loud and attacked me verbally. EEK! I stayed pretty calm (my heart raced, though). Said something like “Dear God help me to stay calm” 😀 really, I did say that loud. Then P ran out of the room really super-pi***d and mad.

    Boss came. Talked to boss shortly. Signed a paper. Went out. Free of narcissism. Best choice to make if you can: turn your back on them.

    Oh yeah…
    M 😎

    I am very, very happy for you, This kind of stress is really damaging.

    You managed the paradox – peacefully stood up for yourself, defied P and are now staying away all in one. Brilliant! Well done! You should be very proud of yourself for handling the situation with such dignity.

    I really hope you can now relax and get better. BTW what is “a true blue”?

    Sorry I can’t write longer but I have just finished work and I am off to Yoga – just wanted to let you know how pleased I am.

    Hi Lichtle,

    I thought true blue means “waschecht”. That is what said when I looked for the word.

    Thanks for your kind words. I grew a really bad Herpes :_(( It hurts. Guess it comes from all the stress plus the infection. Meine Lippe sieht aus, als hätte ich “aufs Maul gekriegt”. And somehow I feel as if, too. I did some research on what happened in those 5 weeks. And it is called abuse. And the impact is that the original issue you seek support for is worsened by the abusive, malignant narcissism.

    So today I had a kind of a “soul hangover”. Well, I am doing my best to get better… And I am still very glad I stopped this abusive crazymaker yesterday.

    How was your Yoga?

    I am looking forward to my feast day tomorrow. I will get myself some nice and healthy soulfood. Yes, that I will do. And I will start doing sports again tomorrow. I have not biked in days (because of my health, did not want to risk anything with the infection). I need the sport for balance, though. Tomorrow I should be fit enough again.

    I am wishing you a nice evening.

    M 🙂

    Hi Mahalo – you really seem to be going through a specially rough time – getting Herpes too – of course due to your weakened immune system. Since the beginning of 2014 I have been getting them too and I really hate them as it looks like lip implants gone wrong. Aftter much research I am now taking one Lysine tablet daily and when I got one in August again, I increased the dose and also used a heat-stick and the outbreak was a lot milder and over quicker.

    You are right to call what happened to you abuse as P was in a position of (perceived) power. How wonderful to have conquered this awful situation, though. I hope your health improves enough so you can get back into your sports routine so you can get a bit of a serotonin kick. 🙂

    Tomorrow, I will do another almost 0 fast day. To have a hot boullion in the evening really did help me on Monday on several levels. 1. Psychological – I made myself something in the kitchen after work – 2 physical the warmth of the drink was soothing and the salt and fat felt nourishing.

    I use “Wela” Delikatessen Suppe (15cals per mug) which is the best stock you can get anywhere and I order it online. People on some forums (fora?) swear by Miso soup but I can’t stomach the weird yeasty taste. I don’t understand the high rating of this soup/stock. Any stock cube/paste only has about 10-20 cals and tastes infinitely better.

    I looked up true blue and you are right of course but generally it has more positive connotations of loyalty, devotion, dedication steadfastness etc which made no sense in your context. But I understand now.

    I am wondering about your name. It contains “aloha” and “halo”. :-). And I am curious to hear about your “soul food” tomorrow. Take care and get better soon.

    heya Lichtle, thanks for the good wishes.

    “mahalo” is Hawaiian and means “thank you”. That is why I chose it. I love the Hawaiian Huna spirit. Aloha is part of the seven Huna principles.

    Today I biked to a library far away from my home. When I was almost there my bike tire was flattened by a nail (put or lost on the bikeway). That happened and I ran out of emotions in that very moment. It was as if someone messaged me: learn to respond with calmness and self-surrender.

    You’re right, there are a lot of things happening and most of them are “negative” and/or cost money or nerves or time (or all of the three). And I keep wishing for different experiences. Warm ones. Loving ones. One that spread hope for my situation. Well… it is like it is…

    Soul food yesterday was for instance: hot chocolate. Or pasta. For my inner girl so to speak (kids love pasta and hot chocolate, don’t they, also the inner ones). Those things “whispered” to me they would make me happy (happier). There was also some non-eatable soul food in the form of a lovely movie called “Schreibe mir Postkarten nach Copacabana”. Or a feelgood movie “Walking on Sunshine” with hits from the 80ies (made like the movie Mamma Mia). I am reading the latest book of “A man called Ove”-author Backman: My Grandmother Asked Me to Tell You She’s Sorry. Nice. Loved Ove, too.

    I managed to leave my Herpes scab alone (ugh!). It looks awful yet I am not picking around. Costs me some self-control. I have not had one like that in years. A sign that beside the immune system my psyche is out of balance. (They say Herpes also has to do with disgust. And yes, P disgusted me. I am doing without medicine right now, just used tea tree oil in the beginning.

    I am looking forward to tomorrow’s feast. Today is ascetic again.

    Have a nice weekend
    M 🙂

    One more thought that popped up in my mind the other day… My fat cells are still melting – very, very slowly yet they do. Now they must be the oldest ones I have gained over the decades of my life. The deeper layers so to speak.

    What, if the old, toxic energies that were stored in them add up to the feelings/incidents in the now? This is a thought that popped up… Just the idea of that reframed part of the experience. Entanglement of past and present. The past gave me that deep pain in that abuse setting with P. The present shows I can and do cope with stuff like that…

    Have a nice Sunday (:

    Hi Mahalo, I should think a bit of googling would have answered my question about your name. Good choice.

    Not so sure your theory about the Herpes applies to me. I am not aware of being disgusted by anything when there is an outbreak. Mostly I am run down. last time I had one I had just returned from holiday….

    My fast day crumbled yesterday and I succumbed to 3 pieces of toast 2 of them with jam ;-)). So I will try again tomorrow and of course Friday.

    Have you fully recovered from you illness? Your soul food sounded nice indeed. The film: Schreibe mir eine Postkarte… sounds interesting. I am always on the lookout for good films – no action films or thrillers or anything that is remotely scary… but films like Ziemlich beste Freunde…etc. oder Jenseits der Stille…

    Not much has happened here – very quiet weekend – cold, very cold.

    Aloha Lichtle 😎

    ooh, you like movie recommendations? Cool, I like to share movies I saw and found awesome (why is awesome a slangword for great by the way, anyway ^^).

    Here come some movies I really enjoyed for one reason or the other:

    Der Vorname (What’s in a Name). Very, very funny French comedy.

    The Broken Circle Breakdown. Very moving, a Belgian drama, no light cost, though. Made me fall for Bluegrass music I had never any connection with before. I also got the soundtrack of that film.

    As it is in Heaven. My all time favorite movie from Sweden. Just so wonderful. Have seen it so often and I still discover something new every time.

    Adam’s Apples.
    Babette’s Feast. (Both Danish.)

    I am fit again, yes, thanks for asking. The Herpes-disgust-thingy was not my theory. I read it (Rüdiger Dahlke has a book “Illness as a way” – my translation, not sure whether it is correct). Also Louise Hay has written some things about the metaphorical body-language of our illnesses and their meaning. To me it makes sense that there is a deeper process behind visual signals like a “thick lip”. Anyway, those things can mean something to us or not – whatever we choose 🙂

    Yesterday was my 50th (almost)zero fast day. Wow, there I see how time flies. It did not feel like that long. Three months now. I am still writing down all my costs every day so that I can see at the end of the month how it will work out with that certain amount… I feel it was a good idea to keep some of the fears and “shame” at bay by doing that and have kind of a reality check.

    Good luck for tomorrow’s new start! Tomorrow is a FD for me, too.

    Have a nice evening

    Hi Mahalo, I am very glad you are fit again. Many years ago, I read the Louise Hay book and know what you mean. I just don’t see any correlation in my own life.

    Thank you for the film suggestions which I very much appreciate. I will look them up on Amazon.

    One of the films I have and love. Babette’s feast.
    I also have a film called: “Wie im Himmel”. Is that the same?

    What was your outcome of your record keeping? Do you think you will be able to cope with your reduced income? Once you have ascertained that you will be OK materially, I recon, a great weight might drop off your shoulders which could have all sorts of positive consequencs. Lets hope and stay positive. ? Have a great evening.

    Wie im Himmel, yes. That is “As it is in Heaven”, my favorite movie of all times.

    Tuesday next week I can and will tell you about the result of my “bookkeeping”. Right now I have not even requested that help from government. I still hope for a miracle somehow 🙁 I am going to do that in January. Still a bitter and hurtful issue for me.

    Especially now when two more devastating experiences in job-search – directly and on a meta-level with P – are burdening me and nagging on my optimism.

    Anyway, as you say: Lets hope and stay positive ?

    Have a good fast one

    As I recall the film had a sad ending, is that right? I got it at he same time as “Jenseits der Stille” which I preferred. But now I have to go back and watch it again if it is your favourite film. 😉

    I hope your fast day is going well. My day has gone well so far and best of all I have lost some weight. I don’t know how but I am almost at maintenance weight (50kg) now. For the next few weeks (until Christmas) I am trying to avoid sugar (processed) and that should get me back to my lowest weight (49kg) which would give me a nice Spielraum.

    Ich drück dir die Daumen, dass doch noch was klappt, bezüglich job und dass du die beiden Erfahrungen bald hinter dich bringen kannst.

    Danke Dir, Lichtle. Ich weiß es zu schätzen 🙂

    The ending of As it is in Heaven… well, it is all a matter of perspective, isn’t it. Again, like in everything around us I guess… I do not want to spoil here in case you and someone else likes to see the movie (again). So all I am saying is: the moment we are able to live our life’s deepest purpose any moment is precious and eternal so to speak…

    My (almost) zero FD went well. Today I had a royal breakfast. I was wondering, how tall you are, Lichtle. Reading 50/49 kg and that you’re eating awarely I guess(ed) that you are something like plus/minus 1,50 m? (I searched for a post of yours in which you write about your height yet could not find one). I am 1,72/1,71 m.

    Congrats for reaching that MW in a flow 🙂 That is the best I feel just following the inner bliss and flow of food and water 😀

    Have a wonder-ful day

    Hello, how early do you get up? Already had a royal breakfast? ?
    You are the perfect height – not too tall and not too small. I am 1.60m und fine boned. I am a pear shape, so as soon as I put on weight it goes on my thighs/legs which is not pretty when you are short. Above the waist I always look the same. ?
    The thing about setting our goal or maintenance weight is, that it is really arbitrary. Anything in the healthy range would do but often we chose a weight that we used to be and can identify with or felt happy with. I am sure there is also an element of subconsciesly “trying to rewind the clock” I was 48-49 kgs in my late teens 49-50 in my thirties 51-53 in my forties and then startrwd to gain a kg a year. Whilst before 40years of age, I could easily lose any weight without trying, suddenly there was only one way the scales seemed to go. Up.

    I used to beliece that I should not eat below 1200 cals a day because of damage to my metabolism. But when your TDEE is getting lower with age (1450) then it is almost impossible to lose weight even if you stick rigidly to 1200 cals (which I could not). So when I hit 59kg 5:2 came around and made it Ok to fast or go below 1200 cals and suddenly I could shift the weight again.

    Frankly at almost 59kg I looked all bum and thunder thighs. ? I did not like it and could not identify with myself (also I had a bit of a midlfe crisis, I suspect) but worst of all was the thought of a helpless, continuing upwards trend. I had almost resigned myself to gaining 3-5kg every decade.

    I knew the reason why I was stuck at 51kg – because I knew that one kg didn’t really matter. 1 kg made no difference. . But something deep within still has 50kg programmed. Maybe we thrive best when we have to achieve something. ? We are strange psychological creatures.

    Have a beautiful day.

    I had breakfast at 6:30 a.m. An early Queen’s one 😎 But I got up much earlier, indeed. Did not get the time right this morning when I had a look at my watch in the darkness. And I went to bed early yesterday like on most FDs. So 7 hours of sleep were quite okay for me.

    Next days/weeks I will be offline more. Just telling you in case you may worry or wonder about my not being so present.

    Enjoy your time – fast and feast

    Kein Problem. Verstehe

    Du ich glaube meine Zeit hier im Forum ist nun um. Ich habe es schon lange Zeit in Erwägung gezogen, da mir das Zurückhalten und Vorsichtigsein müssen, mühsam geworden ist.

    Du kannst mich jedoch wie vorseitig erwähnt, erreichen (e-mail). Es würde mich freuen. Falls du das nicht möchtest, wünsche ich dir alles Liebe in der Zukunft, vor allem ein gesegnetes Weihnachtsfest und ein schoenes Neues Jahr.
    Viele Gruesse Lichtle

    Oh, mir war nicht bewusst, dass Du Deine Teilnahme am Forum ganz in Frage stellst, Lichtle.

    Ich für mich meinte eine temporäre Auszeit, weil Dezember für mich eine schwierige Zeit ist. Schon wegen des Singleseins seit vielen Jahren, die anderen Themen mal ganz beiseite gelassen. Und einfach wortlos abzutauchen, hat für mich immer irgendwie etwas Passiv-Aggressives oder Ostentatives, wenn man vorher regelmäßig geschrieben hat. Daher der “anmoderierte Rückzug”.

    Du schreibst, Du verstehst. Ich glaube nicht, dass wir Menschen uns hier bei den Bruchstücken, die wir schreiben, wirklich verstehen (können). Ich habe hier viel mehr geschrieben als ich es sonst in solchen Foren mache, weil manche meiner Statements sehr aus dem Zusammenhang stark missverständlich sein konnten.


    Ich lösche dann mein Abo dieses Threads und wünsche Dir auch von Herzen alles Liebe und eine schöne Zeit.

    Es freut mich, dass aus der “Selbstbestrafungs”-Mail noch ein freundlicher Austausch entstehen konnte. Früher hätte ich mich danach sofort zurückgezogen.

    M 🙂

    Ich danke dir von Herzen und du hast recht, wir kennen uns nie wirklich aber auf einer Platform wie dieser ist es unmöglich, da wir nicht an eine sondern an potentiell tausende von Leuten schreiben. Wenn ein Austausch jedoch nicht dazu führt, dass man sich kennenlernt, dann wird es für mich frustrierend.

    Ausserdem mòchte ich mich in dieser Jahreszeit so wie du auch zurückziehen. Ales Liebe Lichtle ?

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