TDEE and the future – 0:7 diet

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Lichtle

6:25 am
22 Jul 14
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I wonder if anybody else has done this slightly pointless but fun exercise:

I am 53 and my sedentary TDEE is 1313cals. I wondered what the rate of decline would be in my advancing years should weight and height (although likely to shrink) stay the same.

TDEE at age 70 will be 1211
TDEE at age 80 will be 1151
TDEE at age 100 will be 1031

If i keep playing this game, my TDEE will reach 0 at the age of 270, which makes me think that there is a slight flaw in this longevity promise. We will all have to go on the 0:7 fast. Who is up for that?

2fast2furious

7:51 am
22 Jul 14
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That made me laugh! Do come back when you’re 270 and tell us how the 0:7 is going!

tombaron

5:52 pm
22 Jul 14
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Hahaha! Id imagine for most of us our tdee will be 0 a bit before 270. By the way there is another name for base energy expenditure – activity. Its called BMR or Basal Metabolic Rate. *Its masses of fun and games*<– (sarcasm marks)to research, bodybuilders use it all the time

Auriga

2:32 pm
2 Oct 15
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I actually thought this was clever as well as amusing!
It’s worth remembering though that if you ignore your TDEE you’re doomed to failure.
Mind you Lichtle, not so sure I am keen on the 0.7 diet!
See you in 200 years or so 🙂

Lichtle

3:05 pm
2 Oct 15
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Ha, ha Auriga, I just played the game as I reckoned that I my TDEE is about a meal less than when I was young, which is why my weight does not seem to be affected when I a drop breakfast these days. I reckon I lost breakfast along the years. 🙁

It is quite sad that our TDEE reduces as we get older I think it is about 6 cals per year. So every ten years 60cals have to be taken away. Thirty-five years ago when I was 20 my sedentary TDEE was 210 cals higher even without exercise and on top of that I was naturally more active – not because I went to the gym just the way my life worked out. So I think my notion of having lost breakfast wasn’t so silly after all. I feel even if I am not fasting I can only eat about two meals and a few pieces of fruit a day,

Oh that reminds me – I have a birthday coming up and I need to reduce my intake by 6 cals. Ha, ha. ;-))

Mahalo

7:29 pm
5 Oct 15
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🙂
hi Lichtle,
funny thoughts… my grandmother is over 100. She is not eating much at all these days. A bit “like a bird”. And she does not miss anything either (that is what she says). Sounds like food looses meaning when in your 90ies+++++. I can not really believe it (for myself) 😉

Had unsubscribed the other thread. Then read your last message from a while ago this week-end. Thank you for your kind words. I have always felt you were addressing some words when we were in the virtual room together.

I am still doing the ADF (yesterday was the 25th in a row), 3 liters of water and lots of biking. My weight is +/- 3 kg around my goal weight. I have to admit that I had quite some feasts here (sugar, fat).

Have a nice evening.

Mahalo (:

Lichtle

9:14 pm
5 Oct 15
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Hello Mahalo, how wonderful to hear from you. I have missed you very much and wondered what has happened to you. I think you are amazing and have such envyable stamina and determination doing ADF for such a long period of time especially since you are maintaining. Have you lost some more weight? does it get easier with time?

I have been pathetic over the summer months and just started fasting again and hope to do 4:3 for the month of October. I don’t wNt to plan any further.

Are you still on this web site but on another thread?

I think you are right we don’t need to fret about food in old age. All my grand parents and now my parents seem to eat/need very little food. My great grand father was the same as your grand mother, eating like a bird and not really wanting to eat more. He was tiny 1.60m and weighed under 47kgs. When he was about 50 years old the doctors diagnosed him with some digestive fault and gave him another year to live. He reduced his food intake dramatically cutting his meat intake by 90% I so wish to knew if the diagnosis was wrong (probably as 1930s) or if his switch to such a spartan and meatfree diet really got rid of the problem as he died at the age of 90 at home in his arm chair.

Don’t disappear Mahalo keep posting. Lots of love Lichtle

Lichtle

9:28 pm
5 Oct 15
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@mahalo, just noticed your comment that you are within 3kgs of your goal weight.
You must indeed have had some feasts. ???. I wish I was a little mouse in your house…

Mahalo

4:45 am
6 Oct 15
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🙂
I am on this website from time to time but not “on one thread regularly” anymore. Thanks for welcoming me (back – kinda) here.

Uh oh. My issue is alcohol. As long as I do not drink alcohol at all I do not get munchies attacks. As soon as I drink I tend to eat. Eat more. Eat/crave for sugar. Fat. ARGH. My food was not very healthy last month. I want to go back to normal in October. And do without alcohol again.

But my weight has ups and downs all the time. 3 kg plus must not mean 3 kg plus fat or regain. It is very hard to tell. I have not weighed in September, on 1st of October I had +3. In August two weigh-ins with three days in between had a difference of 1,5 kg. So I find this very unreliable in my case anyway. (Plus the hormones/variations of pre-meno-pause…) Actually, when I saw the 64.7 kg on Thursday I was surprised because I felt lighter (and my dress was very wide as well).

Interesting, your great grandfather’s diet-results! I tend to think that it was an intuitive healing process he initiated following his body’s inner wisdom.

Hey, I am wishing you FFF – fabulous fast flow for your 4:3. I can say that I got used to the ADF quickly. I just have to cut out the unhealthy parts again 😀

Re my determination: I do not have much control over the parts in my life that matter much to me. My heart… being single for years and job. So sticking to something that only depends on me, my commitment has turned out a way of coping with the to me saddening parts. There is always shadow aspects in everything…

Wishing you a good day
M

Lichtle

2:38 pm
6 Oct 15
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… and there are light aspects in darkness, Mahalo. I am sorry to hear you feel you don’t have much control over your life and I have been thinking about this today, how much control do we think we have over our life? I don’t think there is too much control any of us has, really. We are kidding ourselves when we think our happiness is based on our “doing”. I am very blessed and lucky in that I am in a happy relationship right now and have a job and there is nobody in my family who is sick and no day goes by without enormous gratitude for this and many other lucky aspects of my life. However, it was not always like this and life looked very bleak for many years. All I can say is, life does change, if through your own doing (your control) or not. Our (and our loved ones) health is and remains the most important happiness factor in our lives and there is not much control we have over that. I hope this didn’t come across as patronising just want to offer some words of understanding.

It is an interesting observation that as soon as we have been very good and restricted, we seem to “treat” ourselves the next day because “we have been so good and deserve it”. I have been doing 5:2 since 2012 and have had periods of very successful fasting and then a seeming unability to do so for weeks or months on end. But what I have noticed is, that when I do stop fasting, the weight does not pile up suddenly and I think this is due to the fact that there is no compensation going on and that we seem to instinctively eat sensibly. Unfortunately not well enough because the weight does eventually creep up ever so slowly and fasting becomes necessary, again. It is the holy grail of fasting/eating to not over eat on the eating days.

Oh, luckily alcohol is not a problem for me but sugar is.

Hey, ho it is still early days for us. Hopefully, we can experiment for many years to come. Take care of yourself. 🙂

Mahalo

7:02 am
7 Oct 15
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Thanks, Lichtle, for your lines and understanding.

There is a thin line between self-pity and self-compassion, isn’t there. And I have realized that “control” was not such a well chosen word (English, second language :). I meant something like: self-efficacy. I am aware that I do not have any “control” over anything.

What I meant was: If I write more than hundred applications with a prestigous university program in the back, with lots of experiences, great testimonials and lots of creativity and since I have turned 50 I get not one single interview… yes, it “magically” stopped with the new birth-decade I entered…

Or: If I am on a dating website with my true age and am completely ignored by men my age – except by scammers who write (ten a day) or 70+++ males. I could lie myself younger but I will not do that.

Then all of that gives me the deep and saddening feeling to fade out in a society that is wired like ours. I feel that no matter how rich I am – and I am in a non-materialistic way – I am made invisible. No, not a “vicitim’s” statement but a fact. That I meant with “control” or the lack of it.

When I decide to do FD… And then I do. And then I lose 24 kg. Then I can see what I did – the result. It was all my own doing and being, commitment, determination. Not like the applications. This I mean with self-efficacy. And at the same time there is this dark aspect in it. The maybe even “over”-determination has a compensation element as well. As do the 50 to 100 km on my bike. There is depression around, very clearly.

My mantra has been “I am ready to see the completeness in the situation”. I am talking about a period of more than five years now. I learned (oh, yes, I did learn so much). I accepted. I worked on myself and the settings and through a lot of past stuff and suffering. Yet nothing has changed, at least not visibly. And then sadness graps me like yesterday. Loneliness is shaking me. As I said, sometimes you need self-compassion to allow those emotions. And even allow to make them readable (like on here). It shows that you’re human. Vulnerable.

*

I get from your lines that you do not have the ups and downs of some kg within a month? Is that right? So when you gain it is mass then?

Right now – still not fastiversary yet – I wish to go on with fasting “forever”. I am not sure whether that is doable for me. Right now it feels very doable.

Hey, take care and have a wonder-ful day
M

Lichtle

2:35 pm
7 Oct 15
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Hi, Mahalo, I think I understand what you mean. It is important that we feel we don’t just sit back and give up on life but keep going and make changes in our lives where we can. I think you are absolutely right and it is admirable, indeed. Keep up the good work.

I totally agree with you in the sense that as a woman over the age of 50 we become invisible and that is harder to take than confrontation and struggle. I get it at work where my opinion or taste re what is “in” or “on trend” is being “eye rolled”. Our young designers come in and will bluntly tell me exactly what our latest brochure and website has to look like and I am feeling 100 years old. This aging triggers a sort of grieving and can be preceded by sense of panic. I am perfectly aware that should I leave this job, that I would not get another one – not in my present position in marketing – maybe as a part time receptionist if I am lucky.

I wish I could be of some help.

I am fasting today and I am experimenting with the timing of my main meal, which I took at 2pm. It will be interesting if I am going to eat the curtains tonight with hunger or if I can last out without food for the rest for the day. I do Yoga on Wednesday nights after work and won’t get home until 8pm so my plan is to have some strength in me for the exercise class and then throw myself into bed as soon as I get home and before I can enter the kitchen. 😉

This way of life is a constant experiment for me. Take care, Mahalo.

Mahalo

6:55 am
8 Oct 15
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Lichtle,

it helps to know/feel there are human beings understanding what I am talking about/going through. So thank you for your empathy. I do understand you work situation’s challenges as well. Too well even. I wished we’d live in a society where the differences of experience and “age” (= lived life) and “taste”/”attitude” are more equally and respectfully seen and treated on all sides. We are far away from that, though. I do not devaluate younger peoples perceptions, what makes them think they can do it with ours/mine? It is the kind of narcissism that separates and fades out those “who do not belong there anymore”. What nonsense that is in my eyes! And what a way of self-limitation.

*

How was the evening yesterday after work and yoga? Has it worked out the way you liked it to? I was thinking of you 🙂

Since I have reframed the hunger-feelings as my “ebb and flow” in my system I can welcome the ebb better so to speak. When I drink my water on WFD the flow comes in again and takes away the sense of hunger. Funny how much I live, think and feel in “images”/”analogies”.

I have a WFD today. Not sure how long I am doing the alternate day fasting. Guess I do it as long as it feels as right as it does now. It’s all in the now anyway, isn’t it.

Cheers and a happy day to all reading
Mahalo

Lichtle

10:46 pm
8 Oct 15
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Hi Mahalo,
How did your WFD go today? If you can do ADF then by all means do it as long as it suits you. I have never been able to fast on a weekend when I am at home and around food but I will have to learn it one day.

I felt fine last night when I got home at eight. As planned I went to bed (it was dark and cold anyway) and although a bit hungry it was not bad. My experience with fasting is that no two fast days feel the same, so I am trying it again tomorrow and find out if yesterday was just a fluke. Often I feel so ravenous when I get home in the evening and haven’t eaten all day that a small amount of food doesn’t seem to fill me up and I end up hungry anyway.

BTW, where have you learned such excellent English? Have you spent some time abroad?

Mahalo

6:43 am
12 Oct 15
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Lichtle,

this weekend was a Saturday-only WF. Those with Friday and Sunday WF are harder. I just make the kitchen a mental “taboo zone” and stick to it. That means I only get my water out of the fridge and that was it.

I have to admit that my feast days get out of control more regularly, though. So I decided to have another no alcohol period from next week on and will also cut down on my chocolate/chips/cake/Gummibärchen (= junk) intake generally. I have to otherwise I risk to destroy my success of one year.

I also know that I am falling back into comfort eating because of loneliness and “worthlessness” (I know that I am not worthless but my heart does not feel it).

Thanks for your compliment regarding my English. No, I have not lived outside Germany. My English is back from highschool in the 80ies. I have always loved the language. Maybe that is why it stayed with me the way it did. And I love Michael Robotham thrillers. I can not wait until they are translated into German. So I sometimes read English (or American) books as well.

Have a great day and start into the new week
M 🙂

Lichtle

4:32 pm
12 Oct 15
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Hi Mahalo

You must be reading a great deal to speak such good English. Well done, it is much harder to learn a language when you are not immersed in it.

Mahalo at the risk of upsetting you, which of course is not my intention, I have to admit that I find your fasting schedule rather punishing. When maintaining you should not have to fast every other day but maybe at most 2 times a week. It seems to me that you are punishing yourself severely by not eating at all on fasting days, and then rewarding yourself with too much food on alternate days. Neither action seems kind to me. Instead of giving up yet more items completely (alcohol, the odd treats), why not cut down. Since you are able to stick to self inflicted ‘rules’ so excellently,why not give yourself a certain amount to eat on a fast day (500cals) and plan you eating days such that you stick to TDEE but still give yourself a treat and be kind to yourself. I am speculating that you would be able to not overeat too much on eating days if there were 5 in a week rather than 2 – 3.

I wish you could be more kind to yourself. I know this is easier said than done but these are just my thoughts which are meant in the kindest way. Also bear in mind you have only reached goal a few months ago and it takes time to find the right balance.

I have noticed on myself that when I do 4:3, I too tend to overcompensate more on eating days and therefore negate a good fast so I don’think it is just you. When I didn’t fast over the summer, I didn’t go over board and kept the weight relative staple although it did go slightly up.

If you want to contact me outside of this thread then you are welcome to e-mail me on:
licht31060le@gmail.com
take care

Mahalo

5:00 pm
12 Oct 15
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Lichtle,

given your good intentions… I find your analysis of my way of fasting very… hm, how can I call it… You are talking very psychoanalytically about me. Self-punishment and expressions like that. This is not adequate in my perception and you overstep my borders as a person in a forum doing that. I am not sharing to be judged or analyzed in return. (This is something I do not like about forums it happens so often…)

Maybe you can ask yourself why my being lonely and talking about it, my comfort-eating may trigger something in you. That is what I have thought more than once.
I would have never written that by myself unaskedly but now I do. Not as a revenge but as a serious question.

I will stick to my way of fasting right now and have that decision for myself. When I have doubts and wish some guidance I will feel free to ask (you or others).

Take care, too.

M

Lichtle

5:36 pm
12 Oct 15
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I am extremely sorry that I have caused offence. I appreciate your honesty and it is a lesson for me to not comment on someone elses WOL. Sorry once more. Oh and I will think about your suggestion/question why I feel someone elses pain and have the need to step in.

Mahalo

3:11 am
13 Oct 15
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🙂
and I appreciate your response. And the chance to speak up for myself without attacking or hurting the other person. I like(d) our exchanges and also like to continue them.

Do you know “The Work” by Byron Katie? It is a tool to possibly find own projections, shares and/or buy-ins. I am doing this when I feel the need to “fix someone’s pain/problems”. It shows me quickly where my own pain/problem lies. There is a free work-sheet out there in the internet. I have some of BK’s books here. This I mention only as an inspiration. (I am a book and library nut 😎 )

Cheers and a happy day
M

Lichtle

10:20 am
13 Oct 15
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Thank you, Mahalo. I know that I have a difficult relationship with pain, not so much my own but that of other people around me. Trying to alleviate their pain by giving advice or doing things for them is a major fault of mine, one which I have been aware of and working on for a long time but seemingly without much success judging by my post yesterday which I am frustrated and depressed about.

I have not heard of Byron Katie but have googled her briefly and it looks very interesting. I, too love books and books and books and will certainly read up on her. Take care.

Mahalo

11:22 am
13 Oct 15
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Reading your lines I was tempted to write: Hey, Lichtle, dear, don’t be depressed and frustrated. You see? I have the same pattern “to heal and fix” and talk someone out of their emotion. Now, being aware, I say: hey, these feelings are there. We feel them. We embrace them without clinging and clutching, and then they will slowly fade away…

I find our little experience yesterday is/was a chance to learn and grow. Both of us. Hey, and yes, sometimes I am really really really sick of all that learning and growing all the time 😎 But I am still willing to. And then I get out my mantra again: I am ready to see the completeness of the situation. (I love that mantra, it does not say that you’re seeing the completeness, just that you are ready to – I mean me, not you 😉 )

Do you still read German? http://www.vtw-the-work.org/the-work.html here you can find the work-sheets in German language and find out whether that speaks to you.

I am sending you a warm smile through the Winter temperatures here (ugh, only October and everybody is wearing gloves again 🙁 sigh)

Mahalohahee

Lichtle

12:43 pm
13 Oct 15
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I have a friend who has attended AA for many years and she has taught me that I HAVE to give the other person a chance to feel his/her pain and work through it. If I smooth his/her path and make it better, I am doing him/her a disservice. Whilst it deals with the outward issue of not actively helping the person, it still doesn’t solve my inner problem of the need or wish to help because the only way I can handle not helping is knowing this would cause even greater pain. Oh, what convoluted beings we are.

Thank you for the link again. I don’t mind which language I read but when it comes to expressing myself and especially emotional issues, I prefer English. We didn’t do much emotional speak in the family, I don’t think many families did 50 years ago. By the way, good mantra but how do you translate ‘completeness’? Vollständig?

Mahalo

2:54 pm
13 Oct 15
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Vollkommenheit 🙂 Ich bin bereit, die Vollkommenheit in der Situation zu sehen. And the other word that was suggested there is “perfection” – a word I do not fancy at all. The mantra is from Colin C. Tipping’s Radical Forgiveness. I take bits and pieces from all over the place – books, movies, music and create my own buffet.

Hm… Lichtle, have you ever thought about the motives in yourself? (If I may ask that?) I used to be made “responsible” as a little child even. Responsible for weal and woe of my younger brother (with 6??!!!). Responsible for my mother’s happiness and worthiness. And so on. So I got that my only right to live is to DO. Do something to “make” “others” “better”. What a cr** (sorry).

Sitting with someone and his/her feelings was very hard for me in the past. And it still is a challenge. I got my self-worth from DOING. I felt sometimes “better” when I could give advice (wanted/needed or not I did not ask). All of that in myself came from an old source of very deep and old pain. The pain of being emotionally and mentally abused. The pain of being overchallenged. The pain of not being allowed to be a child and act/feel like a child. The deepest of all: the pain of not being loved for me by my own parents.

So in my case not bearing another’s pain or anger (or whatever) was always a sign of my own unresolved inner processes… Took me ages – literally – to find that out.

Maybe that makes sense for you… I can only talk about my own share in those “helping/healing/fixing” situations.

Have a nice evening
M

Lichtle

4:45 pm
13 Oct 15
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From what you have described to me, I would translate it as: wholeness http://www.thefreedictionary.com/wholeness
See point 2a and 2b – beautiful.

I have thought about it and whilst I have always felt loved by my parents without this ever needing to be put into words, I remember my mother was always ill when I was a child. When I think of my childhood I think of her in bed when I came home from school. Of course this is not accurate she was not always ill but such are childhood memories. Of course we are all products of products. My mother had a very difficult childhood and so did my grandmother, both having to bear heavy responsibilities in their families. My mother tried to prevent me from too much repsonsibility (and I had an older brother) but she could not help being “ill”….

Mahalo

4:57 pm
13 Oct 15
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May I embrace you?
Just a virtual embrace?

If yes 🙂
(((Lichtle)))

This all is not about blaming (someone) this is about love – for ourselves and even those we choose to walk away from (because they are so toxic like in my case and yes, there are chain-reactions from generations to generations).

My mother was ill, too. I wanted to heal… anyone but myself. That has changed.

Wholeness – wonder-ful. It has the whole in it and the hole. That is just PERFECT. And in this very moment I adore and love the word PERFECT.

🙂

Lichtle

7:59 pm
13 Oct 15
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??? the hug is much appreciated. I agree, blaming is no use. Llet’s strive to see the wholeness….

Mahalo

5:49 pm
14 Oct 15
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Yay.

Another WFD almost over for me. Easy one although it is cold here… (and our hot water was out of order the entire day until a few minutes ago 🙁 )

I have thought about whether or not to give some more information on my ADF and its background. Decided: yes. To make the picture more whole/complete.

If there is no miracle I will soonest be dependent on money from government. (To me a nightmare I have not imagined in any of my dreams of how my life would be like.) I have never ever cut down on food expenses. Food has always been precious to me. Quality also. My exercising and experimenting with WFD/ADF is a potential way to deal with much – I mean really much – lesser money regarding food than all my life before.

That was why I had contacted that physician (I wrote about my e-mailing him in the other thread a few weeks ago). I wanted to be sure that there are no risks doing that.

The fact that I eat so much sweets these days is – on a metaphorical level – that there are quite a few really sad and b i t t e r feelings coming with the situation. So I am literally sweetening my life (and am perfectly aware that this is no solution in the long run at all). I guess I “report” it to stay aware of the fact that I have to end this. And I will 🙂

Maybe this sounds like “justifying myself”. But, no, I am just sharing what the background of things/behaviour can be. The part that is not evident on first glances. And that the sharing also has a deeper meaning.

Wishing you a nice evening
M

Lichtle

9:44 pm
14 Oct 15
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Well done for another successful WFD.
Thanks for sharing – You seem to have to deal with a double whammy. Not finding value in work/due to age and at the same time dire financial constraints. Am I right in assuming that by doing several fasts a week you intend on saving enough money to allow you to buy good QUALITY food for the eating days ie keep a healthy lifestyle?

Having to cut.back so severely is definitely scary I can very much empathise. I don’t want to go too much into detail on an open forum but I can assure you that I know what you are going through – more than you realise.

I had never thought of my sugar addiction as a “way to sweeten”.my life. Food for thought.

Mahalo

7:31 pm
15 Oct 15
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🙂

I love to look at things from a verbal/metaphorical/symbolic perspective. They all have a special magic for me.

There is this saying I like a lot: “Problems are solutions in work-wear”. And the word pro-blem has the Latin prefix pro in it. It is pro us. Some about it is…

Thanks for sharing your own affinity to this kind of experience, Lichtle. The fact that it is the internet makes me a bit cautious as well. But then I think there are millions of people out there dealing with issues like that… It’s a wide spread reality of modern societies…

Yes, you got me right. I am still experimenting and kind of preparing myself for the new situation that is before the door. I want to be used to doing it when it starts – if I keep getting along that well it will be no problem. I will see.

Good night and a happy start into the week-end
M

Lichtle

8:59 pm
15 Oct 15
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It seems to me you have proven that you can fast very well. What are you still experimenting with?

It makes sense to prepare mentally and physically to any changes as It reduces the fear of the future. Fear is such a destructive emotion and I have been thinking about it a great deal. Many years ago, I read somewhere that fear is the cause of all evil which I didn’t understand at the time but I agree with now. When someone upsets me, I wonder what that person is afraid of. Why has that person the need to attack, shout, ignore, put me down, take what is mine etc.

I can see that you like the more or less hidden meaning of words. Do you think that the English language lends itself more to word interpretation or is it the same with/in German?

Mahalo

7:26 am
16 Oct 15
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Hi Lichtle,

experimenting with the whole approach is what I am doing. I have now tested the ADF for a period of two months. That was the fasting part of it.

Yet I have not taken a certain amount of money – the one the Government will give to me – and see how/whether I will get along with it and a healthy/normal nutrition 🙁 In November I will do a test-month. I am scared of that because – as I had written before – I am not used to cut down on food expenses at all.

So that makes me still experimenting. The experiment will be over when I decide: Yes, this is a way for me that makes sense and helps me. Or: No, this isn’t working financially and/or healthwise.

Re language approaches…

For me there is no difference between the languages when I look at “phenomenons” in my own life and play around with “translations” (metaphorically). Here I am doing it in English because the forum speaks English. Offline I tend to think in German 🙂

Fear, yes, Lichtle, I agree – a motor for many, many experiences/behaviours & attitudes.

When I face irritating behaviour towards me I also ask myself today: What is my share in the situation? (That is why I like The Work of BK so much. What is the other person scared of, what’s their fear? And: What am I scared of, what is mine? 50 – 50 sharing.)

Are there aspects of fear/threat that I am throwing into the dynamic? One of my issues has always been that I am completely focused on my opposite. I had no own room of responsibility/care for myself – unvolontarily – serving others as a life purpose – neither in the “questionning my own acting/perceptions” department nor in the “taking care of myself”. Only the other person existed while I was invisible. Gaining room (mass) is also a matter of making oneself more visible in my perception. That does not solve the problem constructively, of course. But it would also “translate” in a metaphorical way. “I need more room/space!” Once we can get ourselves the same room others have things will change. The healthy way is the key… the unhealthy way can be a good guidepost, though. I want more sweetness. I got it from unhealthy stuff. Yet now I ask myself: How can I create more sweetness without sugar/food…

Hey, your thread has moved far away from its original topic – we made it move away I mean. When I answer I just let it flow. Sometimes it may sound like I am talking “about myself”. What I feel is I am talking about patterns that many people may have in their lives. I use so called I-messages because I can not tell anything about others. I can only tell what my perceptions are…

And now my most destructive inner voice said: Look how much space you took here, you &%//%$§%$§”

😎 see, what I mean…
*sigh?

Happy week-end (here it has been raining for hours and is supposed to stay like that the whole week-end… time for sun in our hearts again)
<3 M

Lichtle

11:38 am
16 Oct 15
Permalink

Ditto, the weather here is cold and wet, too. 😉

It is interesting reading your posts, Mahalo. Never thought of a person wanting/needing to take up more room physically due to unhappiness hence gaining weight.

When I am unhappy, I lose weight and when I am happy I gain. When I am unhappy I have this massive knot just under my ribs and I have to force myself to eat. Reading your post, I suppose you would interpret this as wanting to “disappear”.

I was a very small and thin child (here they call it weedy) and was always told “Iss, dass du was wirst”. It doesn’t translate into English well , “eat so that you become somebody/significant” doesn’t quite hit the nuances. I would have thought that this would have spurred me on to eat and become overweight, since everyone wants to be “someone” but no, when I hear this phrase in my mind I lose all appetite. ;-).

I don’t have big meal portions per se but I do love sweet treats. When it comes to treats, I will finish a bar of chocolate or packet of sweets or cake, no problem. This can easily be half of my TDEE.

On fast days, I don’t eat sugar and more importantly don’t crave it so it would be in my interest to have more fast days a week. I am wondering if I should experiment doing one 0 calorie, and 2 x 600-700cal fasts a week allowing me to eat a soup for late lunch and a low cal but filling meal in the evening. But whenever I plan something like that there is something that gets in the way. Mahalo, I am also still experimenting and without this life would be boring anyway. Have a great weekend.

Mahalo

7:32 pm
16 Oct 15
Permalink

Reading about the nuances… Yes, reminds me of the funny translations… 😀 I remember how much we laughed back in school, “translating” stuff like “You can say you to me” or “heavy on the wire”. I am grinning while writing this. No English or American native speaker would know what the hack we mean, would they 😎

Your idea of doing several fasts a week sounds interesting to me and worth trying. You know, the 0 calory fasts are supposed to start autophagy. This I find pretty fasciating. Although I am not very familiar with the scientific details. I just like the idea that my hunger makes my body eat cells that are not optimal anymore.

A few weeks ago on my weirdest feast day I ate four (FOUR) Ritter Sports. That was more than a TDE of a day. What I observed is also that it is not a good idea for me to eat whenever I feel like during a feast day. Before I found IF I had this 5 hours between meals rule (insulin aware food combining). When I started ADF and breaking the time gaps I started to increase cravings significantly. So it is better to stick to the old rule that worked. At least during the day.

I also find it interesting how our coping-strategies reveal underlying dynamics. One eats more and says LOOK this is my space, I need more. Another person eats less or some stop eating and say LOOK I am disappearing (I mean eating disorders of the severe kind). And then there are other reasons why people do this or that.

Some authors derive metaphors from illnesses. The illness itself speaks. And positive psychology also has this approach to re-translate. That must not bring the answer yet it is a chance/possibility to see things from a new angle.

Cheers
Mahalo (:

Lichtle

8:50 am
19 Oct 15
Permalink

Ha, ha – even I had to think for a bit to work out what you meant with “heavy on the wire”. My children understand “he doesn’t have all his cups in the cupboard” or “are you spinning”?

I intend to do a WF today. I have only done this once before, over a year ago and I am keen to see how I will cope.

I really need to do something as I have been about 1kg over my goal weight for months now and in the last week or two I have put on another kg due to birthday celebrations and half hearted fasts. I made the most amazing cheesecake (by accident as I hardly ever stick to recipes) I had 3 tubs of quark in the fridge and cooking apples that needed using up so I found a baked cheesecake recipe that looked OK. However I thought why not caramelise the apples but instead of being caramelised they ended up mushy so I made “Apfelbrei” containing juice of two lemons (and sugar of course) which I dropped onto the cake and slightly swirled it in like Donauwellen. The cheese mixture also had lemon rind so it had a fresh taste and not too lemony at all.

Well I was a total pig when it came to eating this cake (made 2) I just looooove any cake containing fruit (not dried) and lemon and cheese….sooooo fresh. Luckily I don’t like chocolate or any dense cakes, so I am not tempted too often when we go out.

I really need to get my act together and pull off some good fasts this week as I don’t like this lazy upward trend. It is always the sugary stuff that lets me down. ;-(

Have a great week Mahalo, let me know what you are doing.

Mahalo

7:41 am
20 Oct 15
Permalink

😀 hi hi, Lichtle, ja, schwer auf Draht, very funny, isn’t it.

How did your second WF go? I thought of you during the day. With that yummy cheese cake fantasies in mind it should have been a bit hard I can imagine. Reading about it I was very glad it was no WF for me that moment 😎

1 or 2 kilos… yes. When I think where I have come from… ten to twenty times that weight in fat cells. In the ups and downs these days I – as written often – never know what is true gain and what natural variation.

I think and feel it is most important to be self-aware and hop back on the wagon once we feel we fell off. So, well done anyway in observing yourself.

I always say: Once I became aware and conscious I can not go back to unconscious times anymore. I can go back to old patterns but not unconsciously because that stays with me. That gives me a good feeling.

I am reading a great book right now about self-hypnosis. There was this part when the author (Jan Becker) recommends: When we feel down it can uplift to speak words with a lot of “i” in them. Like Dri Chinisin mit dim Kintribiss. And I am laughing while I write it down. I have always started laughing with this game. “I” – the English “e” then – makes us use the muscles we use when smiling. Love that.

So heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee:
a wonder-ful day ahead.

Have a nice day
Mahalo

Lichtle

11:32 am
20 Oct 15
Permalink

Ha, ha, that reminds me of my granddad who sang this song with us going through all the vowels. He had lost of silly songs. Just make sure you don’t sing it with the O or U. 😉 It really is true that making yourself smile makes you feel better.
Some time back, I watched an interesting human behaviour experiment programme where they brought in a stand-up comedian to perform to two groups of people:

The 1st group had to take a pencil and put it into their mouth like you would a cigarette
The 2nd group had to take the pencil and put between their lips/teeth horizontally

Then they took the pencil out (so they could laugh of course ;-). As you can imagine the 2nd group laughed a lot more as they were in a happier frame of mind.
So, in the morning when I drive to work, I make a few facial exercises (yes it looks as funny as you imagine) and give myself a very exaggerated smile which makes me get in a better mood instantly. It also has the benefit that when traffic is slow I am getting waved in as I don’t have right of way and could spend a long time waiting for someone to have mercy on me.

My fast day went OK yesterday, although I have to admit that I had a home-made carrot soup in the evening. So not totally WF. I am trying to go without for as long as I can today as I am not really very hungry yet. This happens quite often now that the morning after a fast, I feel empty but not hungry (if that makes sense) I am wondering if I can do 3 low cal food days in a row as I am scheduled to fly to Munich on Thursday for a two day business meeting , which involves a lot of German food which I really can’t resist.
You are right about the vigilance, which is why we are hovering around this site, to have a bit of accountability.

Mahalo

3:01 pm
20 Oct 15
Permalink

😀
cool, the mind-movie with the pencil.

Great you did your day the way it was pleasant and good for you. That is all that matters. And 3 days in a row sound also like a great idea in preparation for the Bavarian yummies 🙂 You’re the FastMistress (hope this is the female form of master). Your fasting kingdom is all yours, your rules ^^ Queen Lichtle.

Hey, I have just had an experience that made me GGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRR! No e or i. Just… I am on my way to an appointment. 10 minutes before it starts – and I am on my bike almost there – my mobile rings. The person I have the appointment with. Whether I can come 30 minutes later. Not only did the person try to change the time super last minute, it was the wrong time even. The person made it sound as if I had written down the wrong time. I very surely have written the right one down. I am very reliable with dates, times, punctuality. So I stood up for myself and said no, I will not bike back home and go all the way again one hour later. And no, I won’t go to the office and wait there for more than an hour either (hello????!!!). Gee. When I was there the person got manipulative in communication as well. I, the person said, did not support them with a serious emergency and someone who really needed help desperately. What? No word about an emergency on the phone, though. I had no chance to make a decision on base of facts. You know what, my gut says the person made up that emergency story.

I must deal with this person (I can not make a complaint either 🙁 ). The very first time I had worked with this person was very irritating already. I have to go there twice a week. I had so wished to get someone who supports me and helps me constructively. Instead power struggles and Freudian lapses every time.

I am so sick of being entangled in narcissistic dynamics and power struggles. I am really so sick of that. Hope I can write about this here without being detectable.

Now I will laugh a bit. Wanna join? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1uJqeQczyE

😎
Have a nice evening
M

Lichtle

6:31 pm
20 Oct 15
Permalink

:-)) These film clips had me in stitches. There is nothing more infectuous than laughter if you want cheering up. Good on you. Great strategy to divert away from your annoying experience.

I am totally on your side here. If she has to inconveniences you to this extend then she has to ask you for permission to move the appointment and have a very, very good reason (one which you can relate to). It is all a matter how we communicate and power struggles are totally unnecessary. I hope the next meeting will prove to be better and that she just had a bad day. On the subject of “it is a matter how you say things” my boss is extremely good at this. Whenever he wants me to do something he says: “Would you do me a favour?……” now who doesn’t want to do someone else a favour? And I cheerfully say “yes”. He could just ask me to do a job but this way I do it gladly. It doesn’t make a difference in the quality of my work but the atmosphere is good and positive as there is never any resentment. So I have adopted it at home, too and it works. :-))

My boss also never says that something (my work) is not good, but when you know him as long as I do I know if he likes something or not. He always starts with praise and then he asks me to just make a few changes. :-)) And we have a good laugh when he says: “best ever”

I really feel strongly that this kind of communication should be taught at school at a young age. I honestly think a lot of people are just ignorant – living in their own bubble.
I, too have a number of self hypnosis books but I never managed to record my own inductions on tape or similar. ? oh well. I am very interested in terms of pain relief as I have heard of people who can put themselves into a trance before an operation requiring no anaesthetic and feel no pain.

Now I have to go and do my tax return. ???.

One more thing. I am a bit hesitant to write too much personal stuff beyond fasting here on an open forum. If you wish to take up my offer of last week, you are welcome to e-mail me. It is totally up to you and we can keep posting here, but I am not comfortable to reveal too much. Take care.

Mahalo

6:48 pm
20 Oct 15
Permalink

Yes, I understand that very well. And I wrote person in order to leave the gender open and in the mist. The person is not in good shape – you could call them overweight – and you’ll never know whether they show up here and stumble upon this. Funny that you assumed they are a she… well, anyway.

I am thinking about ending that “work” or at least talk about the possibility of me getting out next time I see them. The chemistry is just not there. And chemistry is important in that kind of processes. (It is not therapy.) And now I am done with them. (I mean here in the thread, in my mind they are still murmuring argh!)

Your boss sounds like a very nice and cooperative person. Wish I’d find a place to work at with respect and good vibes like that. Have never experienced this, though.

Good tax flow (and back flow, of course).

Take care, too. And thanks for your offer/e-mail address. I appreciate your signal.

Ah, one thing I forgot about fasting and ADF. Every 14 days I have a Friday-Sunday-WF-week-end. Like last one. And that is a toughy (is there such a word? dict.cc says no) – a tough one then. This week-end is Friday and Sunday feast, yeaaaa 😀

Good evening
M

Lichtle

7:50 pm
20 Oct 15
Permalink

Ooooooohhhhh, procrastinating, procrastinating….. I am sitting in the middle of a heap of paper and I DON’T WANT TO DO THIS. So I am posting quickly.

I can’t get my head around how you can possibly fast over a weekend??? That is definitely a “toughy” ;-). I am so weak compared to you.

When my boss started 11 years ago, I thought if this guy is no good I will leave. Then he turned out really nice but he lives 95km from work and I thought he would never stay for more than 18 months. So I decided to stay until he left, because who knows if I change job I might get a terrible boss and regret leaving. So he and I are still here, like an old couple. We sometimes joke that we see more of each other than our partners. I am very lucky indeed, he pulls me up, (teases) me on my “germanness” as I am still not quite tuned to the very subtleties of the language. For example if you talk to someone and they say that they hear what you are saying, then they don’t agree with you. “Interesting” is another word that often doesn’t mean what it says…. Although, I use these words in their true form. It all depends who is talking to who.

Oh, interesting that I thought your person was a woman. Maybe because you are a woman and my assumption is that power struggles happen mainly between same sex. You should see the power struggle between the men in my company (we only employ 5 women and about 45 men), with one exception, it doesn’t bother or affect me so much.
So not more procrastination, it has to be done tonight.

Lichtle

7:52 pm
20 Oct 15
Permalink

Ooooooohhhhh, procrastinating, procrastinating….. I am sitting in the middle of a heap of paper and I DON’T WANT TO DO THIS. So I am posting quickly.

I can’t get my head around how you can possibly fast over a weekend??? That is definitely a “toughy” ;-). I am so weak compared to you.

When my boss started 11 years ago, I thought if this guy is no good I will leave. Then he turned out really nice but he lives 95km from work and I thought he would never stay for more than 18 months. So I decided to stay until he left, because who knows if I change job I might get a terrible boss and regret leaving. So he and I are still here, like an old couple. We sometimes joke that we see more of each other than our partners. I am very lucky indeed, he pulls me up, (teases) me on my “germanness” as I am still not quite tuned to the very subtleties of the language. For example if you talk to someone and they say that they hear what you are saying, then they don’t agree with you. “Interesting” is another word that often doesn’t mean what it says…. Although, I use these words in their true form. It all depends who is talking to who.

Oh, interesting that I thought your person was a woman. Maybe because you are a woman and my assumption is that power struggles happen mainly between same sex. You should see the power struggle between the men in my company (we only employ 5 women and about 45 men), with one exception, it doesn’t bother or affect me so much.
So not more procrastination, it has to be done tonight.

Mahalo

3:33 pm
22 Oct 15
Permalink

Heya, tax girl ^^
everything finished to your satisfaction? Have you done some FDs in a row in preparation of your short trip?

You know, I think your situation is different to mine so this has nothing to do with you being “weak compared to me”. If I had a partner or a regular office occupation things would be very different for me, too. I have nobody eating in front of me. Neither at home nor at work (which I am not at anyway).

When I say to myself: kitchen closed, fridge only opening for getting out water bottles it is easier to keep. That is what I think.

Today I am very hungry and have been the whole day. Yesterday I ate three Ritter Sport chocolates. Tafeln, yes, ouch. It was one of thoses flashes again that hit me from behind. I just could not help it… I am in the middle of my cycle (when I get fat and sugar greedy). When being in fat losing mode I resisted the attacks. Now I do not anymore. That is becoming a problem I think.

The only thing I am really happy about is that I have not cheated on FDs. That gives me encouragement to cope with my new phenomenon of chocolate bingeing.

I am wishing you a nice evening. I am tired already. Guess tomorrow I will be awake at around 4 or 5 like on every morning after a WF.

Aloha
M

Lichtle

2:51 pm
26 Oct 15
Permalink

Wow, Mahalo, 3 bars of Ritter Sport is impressive!!! I could definitely do 2 but not so sure about 3. Do you eat anything else that day or only chocolate?

The problem with me is that I can easily eat 2 bars of chocolate and a piece of cake and nothing else. After all 2 bars of chocolate are filling in themselves.

My trip to Bavaria was great – food wise. Lots of Brezel, Weisswürste, Kassler, Sauerkaut and Torten etc. It was a true carb festival. Unfortunately my weight this morning is 3 lbs above goal so I have enough motivation for fasting this week.

However I came to work this morning and my colleague had placed a nice croissant on my desk. I could not reject his nice gesture, so I am doing a healthy just below TDEE day today and attempt a WF tomorrow. I change tactics often. Flexibility has it’s advantages and disadvantages, of course. but on the whole, I get frustrated with with inflexible friends, even though I admire them for it.

Tomorrow DH will be away for a few days so fasting should be easier anyway without him cooking delicious meals.

Oh my tax… there was a problem with the web site and I had to abandon my task…. I though it had to be done by the end of the month but I learned that I have a bit longer… . just as well. I don’t want to leave it to the last minute in case there is another technical glib.

I hope you are well and taking care of yourself.

Mahalo

5:49 pm
26 Oct 15
Permalink

Heya 🙂

nice to hear that you had a pleasant trip to Bavaria and liked the food.

Lichtle, know what, the chocolate is PLUS my normal food. So that makes this day what I call a MCD – MEGA cheat day. I better do not count calories of the past ones – thousands literally. I must be crazy anyway. That is not about a nice and cosy feeling of satisfaction anymore. But focus and energy back to the wagon and climbing up there! I seem to need a more strict self-management. So I am making another contract with myself. Yes, I really write that down on a piece of paper and sign it.

Until Christmas: no alcohol and no chocolate (and so on) excesses anymore. I have done that in June and I am starting today. Was a WF anyway. Guess I tend and turn out to be more on the inflexible side… But I am sure my attacks come from feeling lonely mostly and those week-ends by myself.

So I am looking for a gratification/reward system other than those chocolate craziness. (And now I stop beating myself up 😎 ) I am going to work with Jan Becker’s new book a lot now. It is very good and has lots of self-hypnosis and relaxing exercises in it. Against bad habits. Against stress. Against all kind of burdening stuff…

And now, in winter time, I will return to my nice evening teas. A ritual I also like very much with my beloved Yogi tea and candles ^^

Cheers and a nice evening
M

Mahalo

8:14 am
27 Oct 15
Permalink

PS
I have given my recurrent expression “loneliness” some more thought and heart… A big part of it is the absence of touch/tenderness. So: food touches me… from inside and outside… fulfills me (kind of). I am going to trace these energies of language/expression some more… 😎

In the Becker book he suggests to personalize those energies and give them a shape and talk with them. Ha 🙂 I will do that with this loneliness figure(s).
(To me) They are a couple, Mr. and Mrs. Loneliness… Mr. Loneliness has other features/characteristics than Missus. They are pretty powerful. And “negative” powers always have a “positive” aspect as well.

I like that idea of interviewing them. Then I have something flanking my contract with myself.

Uhm, the reason I write all that down is that I have learned from scientific research that many people feel lonely these days (even those with partners, jobs and so on). And that loneliness is something very well hidden usually. A taboo. And that increases it even and makes those experiencing it hide away some more! Like a stigma. But it is common. Not only among “older” people… So if I can not change the situation right now I can do something to shrink the stigma maybe… 🙂 And that makes me feel less lonely instantly because I – mentally and from my heart – connect with those who experience the same…

Have a great day
M

Lichtle

12:13 pm
27 Oct 15
Permalink

“Loneliness does not come from having no people about one, but from being unable to communicate the things that seem important to oneself, or from holding certain views which others find inadmissible.” CG Jung

http://dabacahin.tumblr.com/post/41911279826/carl-jung-on-loneliness-and-mystery

A friend of mine who died recently was a big Jung “fan” and often talked about him. I feel I owe it to him now, to read Jung.

About a year ago, here in England a TV celebrity (the same who launched “Childline” launched a charity called “Silverline” a telephone helpline for (older) people who are lonely. People with children feel that they don’t want to intrude into the lives of the “young” and feel lonely. They interviewed a lady whose daughter visited several times a week and she still felt lonely. There are no age exceptions.

I like your idea of interviewing Mr & Mrs.

Mahalo

1:36 pm
27 Oct 15
Permalink

Sorry to read about your loss, Lichtle. May your friend rest in peace (and connected with CGJ’s soul).

I like Carl Gustav Jung, too. One of my favorite quotes of his is this one:

“The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed.”

Lichtle

1:02 pm
28 Oct 15
Permalink

Thanks, Mahalo,
Good quote, too.

How is your personal food contract coming on? I am not sure why I am asking you this question, because no doubt you will stick to it 😉 Just a question on your contract. When you said no “alcohol and no chocolate (and so on) excesses” anymore does that mean you can have it just not in excess? And what would constitute “excess” or how much do you allow yourself. Would on bar of chocolate be acceptable?

This is a weird week for me. I am quite motivated to fasting but something always gets in the way. Yesterday I ended up eating three apples in the afternoon and a plate full of vegetables with bacon in the evening. I reckon I had about 600 cals so I thought I would do another fast day today but I was really hungry this morning which I am not normally so I had two scrambled eggs. You can spot the food combining attempts here, but I am careful with carbs hoping that I won’t get hypo attack which I used to get quite frequently. It is now 1 o’clock and I am hungry though not starving (yet). Tomorrow I want to eat up to TDEE and on Friday I really am determined to do a water only fast. I haven’t managed it so far and always have something in the evening.

Mahalo

1:43 pm
28 Oct 15
Permalink

hi hi 😎 you’re an aware reader, Lichtle. I thought that this sounds pretty vague myself, indeed. Okay, the excesses connect to the chocolate and so on. Alcohol is determined zero over the period of time. “Chocolate and so on excesses” are more than one bar (Tafel right, that is what I mean) or more than 100 g of Cola Fläschchen or even more g of Gummibärchen (if you know what I mean, Haribo) – I had days when I had 200 g or even more Gummibärchen, call it sugar flashes…

One of my triggers was that since I have been doing WFD as ADF I did not stick to my “five hours between meals” rule anymore. Combined with alcohol that knocked me down. I had too high insulin floating around in my body and my appetite for unhealthy stuff rose… So I return to the 5 hours rule now and stick to the other parts of my contract.

You know what brain research found out: Making a decision makes your body full of endorphines. Just the making of it satisfies – no matter what decision you make. I agree. It felt good to say: STOP to bingeing NOW. Next thing is that each successful fast day – be it water, 500 kcal or whatever we define – adds to the PLUS account (so to speak). That is why the more days I succeeded the stronger and more determined I felt. A self-fullfilling prophecy.

So maybe – like for MM – water fasts are just not your cup of tea. Your meal yesterday sounds very healthy and yummy. Apples and veggies. You may need all that and that is why your body/stomach makes you getting it for them. Just ideas I am throwing in.

Today is a WF for me and I am so looking forward to my cups of coffee that I am going to have right now. Yea!

When you are having a WF through and you’ll like the feeling of both doing it and sticking to it, then you have the first “auf dem Plus-Konto”. That motivates the second and so on. This way it worked with me.

Coffeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-time 🙂

Cheers
M

Lichtle

4:47 pm
28 Oct 15
Permalink

….but coffee time in Germany always includes a beauuuuuutifuuuuuul piece of cake…in my head… Here, coffee comes as a stand alone.

Ok, I will now make A DECISION. I WILL do a WATERFAST on Friday. Saying this I scrunched up my eyes and face very hard to signify determination so It should work ;-)) Happy already.

100g of Bärchen is definitely moderate… When I flew back last week, I bought a 500 Haribo bag at the airport and I ate the lot within 36 hrs. I must say they are my biggest challenge. I cannot allow myself to buy them unless I can eat them immediately. I can be more disciplined with other things like chocolates but …. I love fruity treats, lemon ice creams, jelly, fruit cakes, apple crumble etc rather. If it has fruit in it, I love it – more than biscuits and cakes. But I have been known (and received disgusted looks) to eat a whole box of 250g of Guyllian sea shells. Oh, I forgot to say, anything with nuts in them is another one of my weaknesses. If it wasn’t for “sugar” I would not need to fast but fasting helps me to keep some control because, I suppose, a fast day for me is a bit like your contracts. Even if I don’t manage to stick to 500 cals, I definitely don’t eat sweets.

Recently I have been toying with the idea of combining food combining with 5:2. just because it keeps my sugar cravings at bay and I feel so good (and virtuous ;-)). No seriously, when I did stick to it I always felt great, my eyes were clearer and I was more alert even without coffee.