Im new to 5:2 but certainly not new to dieting! Reading this thread it the most depressing thing Ive ever seen! Loads of people saying “Im now thinking of cutting down my exercise”! No people! Dieting makes you thin, exercise makes you fit. If you want to lose weight and be left with saggy skin and weak muscles then don’t exercise and you will see the scales move. But if you want to look good naked, live longer, be more on the ball and have a healthy heart, get out there and move your bum!

There is nothing depressing about it. That was my own phrasing. I believe dieting makes you thin, which we all want, but you need exercise too. Apologies if I’ve caused offence. I won’t comment further il just crack on and do the diet!! 🙂

Hi Sim,

I hope you don’t mind, I’d like to carefully address the following statement from the beginners page that linked me to here: (You have inspired me! – despite my own conflict here – I often generalize the need to watch what I eat, so the shoe is on the other foot for me)

“It turns out that while exercise is the single best thing you can do to improve your health (unless you are a smoker – quit), it does not really help you lose weight faster.”

I get the Title and could not agree more. I love exercise! Building muscle used to be something I often did as an avid body builder. Before my passion of body building during the 80’s, I was quite a natural athlete and found exercise came to me naturally. (hence the BMI never really worked for me)

I have no credentials, certifications, degrees and so on – I just want to share a little conflict regarding some generalizations that are easy to make. I do it all the time! I also like to learn by thinking out loud.

Before I crashed and burned rather drastically aoubt 4 or 5 years agao (both physically and mentally), Exercise played a vital role in helping me to stay fit and trim. Exercise has helped me to both keep the weight off … and … also lose fat fast. The effect that exercise has with regard to shedding the fat fast on me, is and was so effective that I could gain weight without a care knowing all I had to do was life weights and run to shred 10kg/22lbs in as little as two weeks. My diet naturally changed for the better, however there where times I did not change my diet at all and I still put a large dint into the equation.

I did this on and off up until age 42. Put it down to Genetics/Body-type/Upbringing/Mind-Set/Personality and so on – So many factors that alter the outcome for different people. The fact remains that exercise indeed helped me lose weight very fast and was something I noted worked so well with me, that I often relied on it (often to my own detriment, however that’s another story – Balance!)
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I like the title here, because it reflects a fault that I am prone too. Burn out! Going into things too hard resulting in complications like stressed bones, fatigue, sleeplessness … IMO … for me, exercise can actually improve my diet through improved awareness that comes from increased O2 utilization. Obtaining such a level of fitness has never been something I obtained from walking 25 miles … Just as all the variables I mentioned that I believe relate to my success with exercises – the intensity is also something that makes or breaks my goal with regard to using exercise to lose weight. The good news there, is that it takes a small fraction of the time required to up the intensity level Vs strolling in the park – but then I can factor in my weight at other times and heart rate, which have indeed made walking in the park an excellent way for me to lose weight. Ten to twenty minute bouts was enough.

Forgive me, as I don’t mean to talk in circles but trying to make a point that there is so much to factor in, when generalizing the effects of exercise and weight loss.

It was when I was watching sixty minutes that I came across this 5:2 Diet/Approach to healthy living. I was very encouraged, however noted what seemed to me as a negative generalized exercise comment about a lady jogging down the street. I can’t remember exactly, but the claim was that all the exercise a person needed was “Three Minutes a week!” Of course it has to be intense exercise. (excuse me while I smile … I just can’t help it and feel the need to let you all know) The presenter asked the 5:2 promoter/pioneer if the lady jogging in the background frame was wasting her time. “Whilst moving is better than doing nothing – essentially yes” Now my recall here may be a little sketchy, but that’s pretty much how I hard it being stated. 3 minutes of intense exercise is all you need a week. [Huge Smile Now :)]

I’m sure for some people this might be the case – BUT – I think that statement was kind of misleading and aimed at promoting his venture or something like that. My break down on that, is that if your old, in your twilight years, have limitations of some other factor relating to whatever condition/time restraints … that of course you don’t have run or jog to lose weight – doing so for many individuals is more harmful than good … but to say that the lady in the background is wasting her time, without knowing the variables in her own life … for me, that kind of diminished anything else that was presented after that although I like most of what I heard.

I think at the end of the day, many of us talk ourselves into finding good reasons not to put in the effort when we know making the changes are so hard. For me – Food is Hard!!!! Not Easy … but for many others, their set of variables and circumstances have seen handling the food side of things easier and get by without the exercise .. so for them, it’s easy go with what generalizations that make their ego feel a little better. Not sure if that came out right? hmmmm … For me … I would say … “Narrrrr just hit the treadmill mate, you don’t need to starve yourself like that. You don’t need to deprive yourself like that! You turning into some kind of Monk or something?” That’s me playing into my Ego knowing full well, I wish I could control the food so I did not have flog myself so much with an approach that’s secretly growing more like a chain and ball as opposed to my super hero approach.
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Sorry for the long post Sim … I most likely don’t understand the context as that happens often with me. I absolutely agree with the title, because I get that context … In my own way. This whole 5:2 thing is something I really need to get on board with, because as I get older … I know I can not sustain the intensity of “comebacks” I often relied on … my own strengths have become my weakness’s as I now approach 50 in the next 4 years. My super Hero approach can no longer work for me – No longer a foot ball player running of the seasons fat.

I hope that I can put in the same kind of passion I did with those comebacks, into this new lifestyle. The only exercise I yearn to do for the rest of my life is to in fact walk long distances which I guess sounds ironic … I’m not into the hum drum of main stream living so that suits me fine. I’ve been heading towards a minimalist lifestyle for quite some time now, and this approach is very much in line with that.

I think this 5:2 way of living is just the key I needed to transition into a balance I have never been able to obtain.

Heading off to read some more of your awesome tips!

Thanks Sim. 😉

Hi Davekyn, interesting post – thank you for sharing.

With regard to the 60 minutes programme: I haven’t seen it but it sounds like they were possibly talking to Michael himself and if that was in the last year or so he was probably covering both 5:2 and his interest in HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training). Like 5:2, he covered HIIT in a BBC Horizon documentary about a year and a half ago I think. The documentary and the science behind HIIT did seem to bear out his assertion that a few minutes a week (I think it was 3 minutes per session 3-4 times a week but I’m not sure) would assist fat burning for most individuals better than slogging it out on a treadmill for hours on end. I don’t think that concept is particularly ground breaking, as there have been circuit training and interval training around for donkey’s years but the specifics of the level of effort expended over very short periods and the stats and data points supporting the science was interesting.

Oh my! – you totally win the ‘most fun sounding’ exercise award… low flying aerial dancing sounds AMAZEBALLS!!!

I used to go jiving twice a week before I started 5:2. Never lost any weight through exercise EVER (even now it’s totally put the breaks on my losses) but I did enjoy my jiving. There aren’t any clubs near where I live now, so it’s out of my life for now but I do miss it.

Keep enjoying your classes & best of luck on 5:2.

Like swing but for rock & roll beat rather than swing speed. Lots of rocking & twirling. Not too many lifts when I was doing it as I insisted that it would be a bad idea for anyone to try with me (I was always heavier than I looked – so some guys would probably have tried if I hadn’t made it clear that they shouldn’t).

Thanks TracyJ,

I appreciate the clarification. I hope you find a place nearby so you can start your jiving again if you’d like.

Please please think…. 1lb of muscle weighs the same as a 1lb of fat. It’s just that muscle is dense and fat isn’t. Think of a 1lb of potatoes and a 1lb of feathers one will take up far more space as “lovetolift” says, but scientifically a 1lb is a 1lb!!

So you may end up weighing the same but more of your body will be muscle and it will take up less room so keep on exercising because that is what your body was designed to do.

And in my first post I meant a cube of muscle weighs more. Apologies.

Hey all. There are a ton of great ideas being floated here. I thought I’d share a few articles that I’ve found interesting on the subject. There’s a whole lot of information out there, some of it even conflicting, and it might be interesting see where your personal experiences line up (or don’t!).

First off, as stated by sylvestra, exercise is not compulsory for a successful 5:2 diet for those with weight loss as a prime goal. Loss of fat plus the inherent health benefits of fasting make it completely viable on its own, particularly for those for whom exercise is undesirable or not an option for whatever reason.

The article that @maryann posted a while back from a scientific study at UIC first published in 2013 is a good read, full text article available: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/oby.20353/full.
The title is a bit of a mouthful: “Alternate day fasting and endurance exercise combine to reduce body weight and favorably alter plasma lipids in obese humans.” Now say that ten times fast…

In it, they recorded the weight loss of individuals in four groups: Alternate Day Fasting (ADF), Exercise, Combination and a Control Group. In their findings they noted that the Combination group was the only group to experience a decrease in LDL (‘Bad’ Cholesterol) and an increase in HDL (‘Good’ Cholesterol) and ultimately concluded that, “These findings suggest that the combination [exercise AND ADL] produces superior changes in body weight, body composition, and lipid indicators of heart disease risk, when compared to individual treatments.” (Bhutani)

Another study published in February 2014 advocated for exercise, regardless of weight loss goals, stating:

“High physical activity (PA) levels or exercise training (ET) should be an integral part of any treatment plan for obese individuals regardless of weight loss goals, and is associated with numerous cardiovascular benefits. High levels of PA and cardiorespiratory fitness (CRF) are inversely associated with cardiovascular disease, Type 2 Diabetes and all-cause mortality. Several epidemiological studies even suggest that high levels of PA or CRF attenuates the health risk of obesity. Moreover, CRF levels have been shown to alter the relationship of the obesity paradox, where high CRF level is associated with greater survival in all body mass index (BMI) categories. So above all, clinicians should always encourage their patients to adhere to ET programs or engage in regular PA regardless of the weight loss achieved.” (Swift)
Full text article: http://europepmc.org/articles/pmc3925973#R11

I think an important takeaway from this fantastic discussion is that everyone is different and thus, our approaches to our individual health and fitness goals will inevitably be different. Perhaps your personal experiences en route to a healthy lifestyle will differ from the findings of these studies.

Although increased caloric output (ie exercise) can increase appetite, what I have found often with friends and clients is something similar to what Purple Vegie Eater and Davekyn describe with regards to healthy decisions breeding more healthy decisions. Once you begin exercising regularly, you may start to forego empty calories and crave more nutrient-rich food. Maybe. On the other hand, perhaps the only thing getting you through your workout is the idea of a cheesy pizza at the end of it all. We are all different and this is okay.

One final reminder that I will leave you with, cliche though it may be, is the fact that a lower number on the scale is just one of the many contributors to overall health. Although it may not be the most effective form of weight loss, exercise has an undeniable slew of benefits, both physical and mental for every body. The key is finding a way that works for you and your goals. Perhaps, crazy though it may sound, even something you enjoy.

Works Cited

1. Bhutani, S., Klempel, M. C., Kroeger, C. M., Trepanowski, J. F. and Varady, K. A. (2013), Alternate day fasting and endurance exercise combine to reduce body weight and favorably alter plasma lipids in obese humans. Obesity, 21: 1370–1379. doi: 10.1002/oby.20353

2. Swift, Damon L. et al. (2014).The Role of Exercise and Physical Activity in Weight Loss and Maintenance. Progress in Cardiovascular Diseases , Volume 56 , Issue 4 , 441 – 447

Further Reading

Exercise and your heart:
Swift DL, Lavie CJ, Johannsen NM, et al. Physical activity, cardiorespiratory fitness, and exercise training in primary and secondary coronary prevention. Circ J. 2013;77:281–92.
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/circj/77/2/77_CJ-13-0007/_article

Another reason to combine effective dieting and exercise:
Oh Sechang, Tanaka Kiyoji, Tsujimoto Takehiko, So Rina, Shida Takashi, and Shoda Junichi. Metabolic Syndrome and Related Disorders. June 2014, 12(5): 290-298. doi:10.1089/met.2013.0143.
http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/met.2013.0143

Hi Simcoeluv,
I would take issue with you on one point. I surely cannot be the only person on the planet who does not get hungrier when I exercise. In fact the opposite is true – I get less hungry. I think the trick is perhaps to find a form of exercise that you really love. Call me a sad bar steward but the highlight of my day, my week and of my year is to go for a walk in the mountains. I love it so much that I can often forget to eat during the course of a walk of 6 to 10 miles (or more). I take one small sandwich and usually give half of it to my dog. I also like to cycle (but prefer walking) and the same is true for cycling for me. Gyms bore me shedless, so I would probably need more than a pint of beer after a session in a gym.

Hi Graham,
I started at the gym to get fit too. It became clear to me that when i looked at the calories burned during a gym session that the only way that I was going to lose weight was by eating less. So, I eat my meal after a gym session and now have a treat on a Saturday and a Sunday, provided that I have walked the 10,000 steps each day. However, that treat is deducted from the daily TDEE.Sometimes I choose to ‘spend’ 600 calories on an almond croissant and some times I choose to eat a whole meal instead!

As I have lost weight, I have seen muscle peeking out from my stomach and upper arms. Rather than cover it in fat, I want that definition…and to see more of it, which is my incentive to limit the treats.

Well done on increasing your walking. Could you walk 10,000 steps every day? That would help you build more muscle, which will burn more calories and will tone too. Have you had a look on the internet at what 1 lb of muscle looks like in comparison to 1 lb of fat?

Treats are important and I would never suggest that you shouldn’t have them. Have you looked at how many calories you burn after a 5 mile walk and what that might equate to in food terms? If you haven’t tried it, give it a go for a few weeks. I found that I was making different choices that meant that I was still having treats and losing weight too. Win win.

Hi Graham,
The idea is that your TDEE is the same every day and that any exercise that you take is simply part of that figure, as it is adjusted on how much exercise you do on a daily basis.If you consume an extra 700 calories on the days that you walk 5 miles, then you will not lose any weight. As a pizza may well come in at 1000 calories, you may find that you put weight on.I walk between 14-16000 steps Mon-Fri to get to and from work and through the day, but I have to work hard to get up to 10,000 steps each day at the weekend. The calories that I earn are not extra to my TDEE, but part of it.It does get easier as the weeks tick by, but habits have to change if you want to lose the weight and keep it off.

Ignore the calories that you have ‘earned’ by walking. Exercise is good for fitness and toning, increasing muscle mass-which in turn will burn calories but fat doesn’t do anything.Remember that a lb of fat weighs the same as a lb of muscle, but as muscle is more dense it takes up less room under your skin.

You might find it helpful to look at the sugar in your diet. I have been horrified at how much sugar, both hidden and obvious that we are consuming in both savoury and sweet foods.

It does get easier Graham. Keep going, don’t give up.

Hi Graham,
So how many calories are in the carrot cake? Will you be over your TDEE if you eat it?

Remember, the walk does not earn you the calories to scoff the cake.

You are not a dustbin Graham.

Cut the cake up into normal size portions and freeze individual portions. That way the cake is in the house, but you won’t be able to eat frozen cake.

Find something to occupy you, but that isn’t in the kitchen.

Habits make us fat. Change the habit. Do something different.

Please don’t chuck the cake in the bin! Either give it to a neighbour or put it out for the birds. Birds love cake!

Hi Graham
In case nobody has suggested it, I would advise you to cut the cake into healthy sized portions and freeze them. Then go out and bag a few Wainwrights. If you can’t spare the time to travel to the Lake District today, how about some virtual Wainwrights? Find some mountains or hills close to home and bag them. No mountains near to home? Do virtual mountains! Flat walks will do just as well if you increase the pace at which you walk and walk and/or walk further.
When I started reading the posts in this forum, I thought: I haven’t got time to walk 10,000 steps a day and I had no idea how far 10,000 steps is. Now I know it’s 5 miles. Who am I fooling? 5 miles on flat terrain would take me 1 hour 40 minutes, probably less. I tried it yesterday with a friend but we stopped for a cup of coffee mid-way, so it took longer and we window shopped a bit.
I do at least a 5 mile walk most weekends and thought that once a week was enough. I also walk the dog 3 times a day and that adds up to a mile or more.
But here’s the problem: I am not a healthy man, as I have recently found out. I had no idea (honestly) until I started getting cramps and went to my doctor. He sent me to a specialist and he is sending me for tests (lots of tests). So I can’t be as healthy as I thought, can I.
I now realise that I can easily afford 1.5 hours per day to go for a 5 mile walk. Because, if I don’t, I might be dead soon. I’m not being melodramatic. I am pretty sure that my problem is that my arteries are fuzzed up with fat deposits. I’m not fat, all my friends say I don’t need to diet. But they are wrong and I definitely need to do those 5 miles a day. You see apart from the daily dog walks and the weekend trip to the campo (Spanish for countryside – I live in Spain) I sit at a computer far too much and I am not a stranger to the tele.
The guy who started this thread has got it all wrong. Exercise is very good for you, it’s essential. What’s bad for you is forums like this one, because we spend far too much time on them – well I do.
I have a dog and I have a couple of friends who are more than willing to walk with me. I’ve even bought the shoes. I’m going to ring round and organise another walk (I did one yesterday). If push comes to shove, I would even walk on my own. I can see a few mountains from my window, so I really have no excuse and the doctor has given me all the motivation I need – it’s just taken me a while to cotton on.
STOP VISITING FORUMS, GO FOR A WALK!

I might give that a go Amazon. I tend to be an all or nothing type of guy and often think that it’s not worth going out unless I do the full 5 miles or so. Maybe I’ll just walk to the next village and back on the other days, a round trip of about two miles, or up the coastal path for a couple of miles and get the train back.

Thanks for that, Graham.
I am retired and decided not to live in the Lake District because I wanted somewhere new and did not want to tire of my favourite place in England through over-familiarity. But I love Cumbria and come over from Spain once or twice every year to do a walking holiday there.
“I’ll just walk to the next village and back on the other days, a round trip of about two miles, or up the coastal path for a couple of miles and get the train back.” I suppose that’s the Ratty then? I’m planning to use it in May! Will I be able to take my dog on it?
No popping in the pub in that village for a half of Old Peculiar!

Hi simcoeluv
Obviously I did not think I was mischaracterising your post. I thought that the title “Exercise Is Dangerous For Your Diet” was NOT indicating what you really believe. I thought that it was meant to draw attention to the fallacy. Perhaps the word “dangerous” is where the problem lies.
I had no intention to insult, belittle or offend you in any way. I didn’t think I was even disagreeing with you. I would like to make that clear. I am a little confused now about whether we are agreeing or disagreeing on the issue.
I see no clear and simple connection between diet and exercise and think that that is what Mosley’s books are saying. Of course I do not want people to drop the 5:2 diet. Of course I understand that exercise will not necessarily help people to lose weight. But that should not discourage anyone from continuing either the diet or their exercise regime. In the end exercise is more important than diet. To put it crudely, people who are fat and fit are in a better place than people who are slim and unfit. Clearly it is better to be slim and fit, if we can achieve that and generally we can.

Hi Simcoeluv,

Of course you’re right that people shouldn’t expect to lose weight every day or week or even month. I walked three miles almost every day during the whole of my years of fast-dieting. That adds up to at least 1000 miles per year or 40 pounds/year at your 25 miles/pound. And that represented only about half of my exercising. So it’s not that insignificant. Certainly I may have lost weight faster (and more reliably) if I hadn’t exercised, but I would also have missed a lot of good eating.

A primary reason to lose weight if you’re older is to gain mobility. I, like most people I think, want to be able to walk long distances without tiring and to run fast for a short distance. I also want to reduce my susceptibility to falling injury. These things impossible to achieve without both losing weight and exercising if your old and fat.

Eventually I came to a place where people were telling me that I looked too thin. I still had a big glob of fat (mostly hidden by clothes) but I couldn’t lose it without looking bad, so to look better I had to put on muscle with strength training; dieting alone won’t even work from the vanity perspective. And even if you like that emaciated look, you need something other than skin and bones to have good metabolic stability.

I can testify that exercise, especially vigorous exercise, is more enjoyable if you’re not obese, and its safer for the joints. So in my opinion, dieting should come first.

Hi Mark,

The Cumbrian Coastal Way details a walk along the entire coast from Morecambe to Gretna Green. Bear in mind that it is over 20 years old, so some things may have changed, new houses built etc., though the bits that I have walked are mostly accurate. I’ve posted two links, one for Amazon.co.uk and another for the Spanish equivalent.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cumbria-Coastal-Way-Morecambe-Cicerone/dp/1852844302/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1427792770&sr=1-1&keywords=cumbria+coastal+way

http://www.amazon.es/Cumbria-Coastal-Way-Morecambe-Cicerone-ebook/dp/B007H606UO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427792827&sr=8-1&keywords=cumbria+coastal+way

You can also buy the Ordnance Survey 1:25000 maps OL4, OL6, 303, 314 and 315 which cover the entire route from Milom to Carlisle, which is the only part of the walk covered by the railway

https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/shop/

The railway line from Morecambe to Milom goes across the bay and cannot be walked alongside of (ditches, bogs, quicksand etc.) and the line from Carlisle to Gretna I think is a main line and doesn’t have any little stations.

Graham.

Thank you simcoeluv, I am a newbie in week two of the 5:2 fast diet after watching Dr. Mosley’s documentary. I’ve had many diet failures… Specifically, four years ago I followed weight watchers to a T… lost 30 lbs by calorie restriction and exercise. One year into it I realized I was miserable… I had becomed obsessed with inputting every morsel of food into my journal and I couldn’t freely go out for a walk without my heart monitor/calorie tracker. For me, that (food=calories, living and eating = math equation) was no way to live. Fast-forward three years and I’m back to my original high weight.
I want to lose weight, and I like to exercise, but I’m a bit scared of going back to that point/calorie obsessed and self-conscious unhappy self, I just want to live without having this obsession with food/exercise tracking. God knows I’ve tried again and again, start eating less and exercising, but I end up quitting because I get emotionally burned out – I guess I finally figured out that going all out from the begining doesn’t work for me 🙂
Your post about the danger of exercise to start weight loss has reminded me that it’s a slow but sure journey, and I thank you for that. I’ll get back to exercising… eventually… and who knows where this journey will lead me to…maybe I’ll be as gun-ho as some of the body builder replies to this post, but first I have to fix my relationship with food. For me, your advice has given me hope, I CAN do it, and I WILL do it, one step at a time this time 🙂

If you hate exercise do something you love, walk the dog, dance, whatever, its all movement. If you do exercise keep it short and fast. No need to do long sessions. Short and bonkers, or short and explosive.