Hi GreigC in my opinion unless you have any medical reasons i dont see it being a problem if your able to do it, and it works for you. the reason Michael suggests the cal intake is to make the plan manageable long term, i fast for the same amount of time as yourself but i do have my 500 cal limit during this time slot, i choose to do this 3 times a week, do what works for you and what you can manage, thats the best thing about this way of life, we tailor it to suit our needs, not the other way around, keep us posted on how your getting on. best of luck, FFL x

Hi GreigC
I started in late january and for about 3 months did 2 total 40 hour fasts a week (from after dinner Sunday and Tuesday nights to lunch Tuesday and Thursday). I found it easier than eating small amounts and stimulating my taste buds.
I now tend to do 1 40 hour fast and on 4 other days have only dinner, then eat normally at the weekends. I am still losing weight (but more slowly now) and have another 5kg to go, I either swim 4km or use the crosstrainer for 1 hour 6 mornings a week.
I am a 63 year old female t. In January new GP made threatening noises about type 2 diabetes which scared the hell out of me. I thought I was “fat but fit”!!
I had read about 5:2 in the Weekend Australian, got the book from Amazon and started.
When I started in January I was 90.8kg, BMI 34.8, cholesterol 7.2 and tryglicerieds 3.2.
12 weeks later 80.7kg, BMI 30.1, chol 5.9, tryglicerides 0.8
So the weight loss certainly contributed to the chol and trygliceride losses (I found that on eating days I now eat less and am not hungry), but still have wine and A piece of Lindt every (non-fast) day.
Weight is now 73.3, BMI 27.59, will do the blood tests again next week after 40 weeks, hopefully my cholesterol has dropped further and tryglicerides have stabilised at the low reading of 0.8ish.
Many people are obviously happy with the 500/600 calories on fast days, but quite a number also do total fasts, it really depends on how you feel and if it makes YOU feel good. I personally find that food stimulates my taste buds, so for me it is just easier not to eat at all 2 days a week (I still cook dinner for my husband and drink water while he has his dinner and wine)
To me the really wonderful thing about this LIFESTYLE (not diet) is the lack of guilt, I have dieted for at least the last 40 years of my life and achieved absolutely nothing! Now, if I occasionally lapse, the next day I have a fast and repair it.
If you feel good with water only keep at it. Good luck

GreigC, I just happened upon an item by Michael, headed “Different ways of managing your fasting days”
in the In Depth/Q&A section of this site. It mentions that ’24 hour’ fasts may in reality stretch out to cover a 36 hour period, and suggests that the best timings within the overall framework are what suits the individual. R

IFtas, I agree it can be easier to cut out food on fast days, rather than finish up hungrier through having mini meals. I’m an all or nothing person. I eat big meals, and tend to snack, but I am astonished how easy it is to achieve days where it’s nothing but water till lunchtime, or till evening, or even till the next day. Going to sleep without having eaten can be a bit difficult, but otherwise it’s amazing that the hunger spells are so transient and so mild. Keeping busy can make it easier still.

On fructose, I came across a fascinating comment item on a UK newspaper website by Robert Lustig last week, under the headline “Fructose: the poison index.” about the EU failing to understand scientific realities. The danger of fructose is still being hidden here, especially when (as Robert Lustig points out) the EU’s Food Standards Agency’s thinking only reaches Homer Simpson levels. Doh! People may understandably ‘switch off’ when there is such a stream of contradictory messages about nutrition.

That is exactly how I feel!!! If I started counting the 500 cals I would feel so miserable realising how little I am actually supposed to eat! I go without any food at all, food is not on the menu on a fast day. I usually go to bed at around 9, it’s easier that way:)) ( I am doing an almost 36 hours fast, that is from end of dinner on , lets say, Monday till breakfast time on Wednesday ).But beware: do drink a lot of water and tea cause we are not taking water from food either on our total fast days so we need more. I recently had some pain on my kidneys to remind me of that…

I have been doing two 33-hour water/coffee-only fasts twice a week (Tuesday & Friday) for three months now.

I started off because my blood sugar levels were just over the border into pre-diabetic territory, but I wasn’t hugely fat – my BMI was 25 – I weighed 80 Kgs. My aim was to get down to about 68-70 Kgs, which was my weight when I was in my mid-20s, twenty-five years ago. 🙂

I chose to not eat during the fast to ensure that my insulin levels remained low throughout the fast – so it made no sense to eat 600 calories per day during ‘fast’ times.

On fast days I have a coffee in the morning as normal, and then one in the late afternoon/evening when I am feeling tired. The rest of the day I drink water. The first few fasts were difficult, but nowdays I find them really quite easy. Perhaps not a state of mind I would normally chose, but not difficult and really no hunger cravings. If I feel at all hungry I just drink a glass of water and usually feel completely fine. While I do feel a little tired on fast days I certainly have sufficient energy to go for long walks (10km), and do whatever else I need to do, and I am sure if I was into it I would have no trouble jogging etc.

For the first six weeks I consistently lost a bit more than a 1 Kg per week (8 Kgs in six weeks), and then hit a plateau and then only lost 1 Kg in a month. I am now hovering around 70-72 Kgs. I was planning to go to 1 fast per week to maintain my weight loss, but obviously I need to keep doing two fasts per week for the foreseeable future.

On fast days I have consistently lost 1.0-1.5 Kgs of weight each time. I then regain most of the weight lost over the next 2-3 days. The initial 1 Kg per week was due to the difference between weight loss and gained.

What I find interesting is that my weight loss per fast has if anything increased with over time (perhaps 1.5 kg vs 1.0 Kg) but my weight regain on non-fast days is also much faster, so in the end I am now not gaining/losing much weight. Hopefully the efficiency of my regain won’t get much better or I’ll start regaining weight even on two fasts per week. 🙁

My scales are not very high tech, but as far as I can tell most of the weight loss per fast is fat. My simple (and probably wrong) model of what is going on is that on fast days my fat cells are releasing Free Fatty Acids into my body for energy (which can only happen when insulin levels are low) and on non-fast days my fat cells are sucking back most of that fat/sugar. Over time my fat cells have become more efficient at both releasing and regaining weight – hence the greater fluctuations.

I am very happy with the result after three months. The real test will be whether I can keep this weight off for the next nine months.

Why is it impossible to lose 3 pounds of fat in a day-and-a-half? I agree it’s impossible to burn 3 pounds, but I haven’t seen any evidence that you can’t release it into the blood stream. I am assuming fat cells aren’t necessarily super efficient (i.e., they may well release more than they need). It’s not like I am killing fat cells, all I am doing is making my fat cells grow smaller/bigger on fast/non-fast days.

Why I don’t really buy the idea that I am mostly losing water three months into my diet because: (1) the scales show very clearly fat, not non-fat fluctuations; (2) when I was sick with diarrhea one week the scales showed big non-fat fluctuations – so these measurements can’t be completely useless; (3) the amount I loose is cumulative and tied directly to when I start the next fast (it would be very coincidental that I only start my fasts when the weight loss I am seeing is only fat loss).

I know I won’t convince anyone here, but I do think this idea that big fluctuations of weight can only be water loss/gain is a mantra without a lot of evidence to back it up. I am happy to believe this occurs early on in the diet, but don’t buy that this continues to happen every fast and if anything increases as you fast more.

If my scales are anything to go by: after a few weeks the fat fluctuations have increased, and the non-fat fluctuations have decreased dramatically, which is consistent with the idea that my body has become more efficient at dealing with fast days.

I am going to have my blood sugar measured next month. I was only borderline pre-diabetic so the doctors weren’t in a rush to remeasure me, and I wanted to get further into the diet before testing myself again.

TomD:

You are doing 4:3. I’m glad it is working so well for you.

Radiant:

You say you are losing 3 pounds of fat in one day, so 3 pounds of fat must have left your body, not just transferred from your fat to your blood.

You then say you regain 3 pounds of fat the next day. To do that, 3 pounds of calories must reenter your body. That is why you have to eat so many calories – to regain the 3 pounds of fat you lost the day before.

If you are regaining 3 pounds, but not eating 3 pounds of calories, the weight gain (and loss) must be something other than fat. Like water.

simcoeluv: I said I was mostly regaining it on non-fast days (note: plural). I fast 2 out of 7 days, so I am regaining most of it in the remaining 5.

My impression is that I am not gouging myself on non-fast days, although I am not counting calories, I think you must be right in part that I can’t be eating so much more so some of this is probably fluid.

Here are some graphs to make it a little clearer.

My overall weight loss:
http://postimg.org/image/lneocakhp/

My fat vs non-fat loss for my first fasts:
http://postimg.org/image/4px7nsfdn/

My fat vs non-fat loss for my last fasts:
http://postimg.org/image/fx12xjj4z/

These measurements are from my household scales, and I agree with you that I am probably not eating enough to put all these calories back (though I must be eating enough to put the weight back). So probably the scales are inaccurate in some way. It is confusing though that they consistently show that on fast days only fat is being lost, and this becomes more pronounced as the number of fasts continues.

If we completely fast for up to 36 hours will that slow our metabolism down and we then lose muscle? I thought the mini meal on fast day was designed to keep our metabolism up and prevent muscle loss. Please help me understand this. thanks

I haven’t read all the messages on this thread, but I gather that someone is advocating no eating for 36 hours twice a week.

I decided to read The Every Other Day Diet book — the diet that Dr. Mosley tried and decided was too hard. Dr. Krista Varady discovered through studies that the best way to lose the weight was to eat about 500/600 calories a day on the fast day. She found that eating 0 calories did not contribute to weight loss as well as 1/4 of the total calories.

Along the same lines, I would recommend that everyone educate themselves about her studies.

The 5:2 diet works, but the Fast Every Other Day Diet works as well.

There is no perfect eating plan for everyone – do what works for you. I lost on the 5:2 plan for 11 weeks. Then I did 3 days of fasting and got over a plateau. I never did try every other day fasting, as I have now lost all the weight I planned to lose.

I think the trick (if you can do it), is to eat only one meal on your fasting day. I found the 24 hour fast, followed by the 400-500 calorie dinner worked for me.

Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately!), the 5:2 fast diet is not prescriptive. There are lots of options if one method doesn’t work.

Hi Greg. I’ve recently learned about the miracle of Autophagy and so decided to go hard core 30 minutes of intense AM cardio followed by (coffee,tea,wheat bran, probiotocs,psyllium seed,water) for 36 hours. All of those things are said to enhance the autophagy by studies, which I do once a week. I’m going to continue 2 other alternate days of fast probably with 500 calories in the evening. I lift weights 3 times a week so I’m trying to dovetail the Autophagy with building muscle and losing weight. I tried 3 500 calorie fasts per week but was advised to take BCAA once before and once after weight lifting. It worked well but I wanted at least one total body cleaning autopaghy which I’m convinced the BCAA interrupts. If I don’t take them, my autophagy would continue but I believe at the expense of my muscles. The solution for me is 2 500 calorie fasts and 1 total autophagic fast for 36 hours. If you can do 2 36 hour fasts that’s fine but I’m convinced there is a muscle deficit consequence even though I’ve read there isn’t. My lifts increase but at a snails pace which I think I can do better with the new setup.

I enjoyed reading your post.

Hi Newburk,

Some nice posts here, albeit they stopped about a year ago. Pity. I used to do two consecutive day fasts so about 60 hours. I now do one day 36 hours per week. Coupled with what you eat on NFDs you should see improvements in all those things you mentioned by fasting. Im assuming by fasting you mean a water fast? When people say they are fasting really what they are saying is that they have had a reduced number of calories for the day, strictly speaking its not the same thing.

The liver is a two way street with respect to storing energy and retrieving energy. Trouble is our modern way of live/eating never sees the liver needing to retrieve stored fats for energy usage. Just like any other part of the body if youre not using it regularly it becomes lazy and inefficient. No great revelation there. Regular small time scale true fasts (you can do longer fasts if you want to but I don’t really think its necessary) of 1-2 days is long enough for you to flip into a ketotic state. When I first started fasting this was initially taking close to 60 hours to accomplish. I now flip into ketosis after 24 hours (I measure this with a keto meter). This trains you liver to access stored fats and produce glucose and ketones. The liver is now doing what it was designed to do. Store energy and retrieve energy!

Going into a ketotic state has several benefits. It allows you to detox and get rid of all of the by-products of metabolism. You may actually feel lower back pain/soreness. This is your kidney working real hard processing all the toxins. Your insulin levels will plummet, giving your pancreas a well earned rest. Autophagy is the controlled killing off of poorly performing cells. This is happening all the time. By fasting regularly cells that are only able to do well in a glucose rich environment are killed off first and are replaced with cells that operate well using both glucose AND ketones. You become keto adapted. I am now able to fast with ease, don’t get headaches (the keto flu). In fact of late Ive had to force myself to eat a little more than Ive wanted to, as the weight is creeping downwards slightly and I really don’t want to lose any more. A nice problem to have.

Good luck.

No problems. Good luck with it.

I also find two 36-hour-no-calories fast the best and easier to perform than 500 cal fasts. I do it separately. Visits to gym also good on fast day evenings – keep you away from kitchen.

36 hour fasts are great expecially when you keep your body in that fat burning state when you break the fast by eating foods with just protien and fats e.g eggs and meat etc and also cos of the high insulin sensitivity during the early hours. You can take your full meal ie with carbs, protien the whole ‘shabang’! just before you begin your next fast preferably by 4 or 5pm depending on your bed time.
Always workout fasted just before you break your fast cos you will feel stronger and have a more efficient workout without fatigue due to the high levels of epinephrine as a result of the fast.

@roryoc. Short answer is yes. If you eliminate sugar and processed grain based foods (bread, pasta, pizza, biscuits, breakfast cereals etc) your well on your way.

Roryoc we all have friends who think fasting is wrong. My 600 cal a day (male) was considered unwise. When I admitted that twice a month I was going from 6pm Sunday to noon Wednesday on fluids only they told me I was mad. This may not be scientific, but I have been on 5:2 since it started, I have lost almost all the weight I want to, I feel better than ever and my Dr says my last blood test was my best ever. The only restriction on fasting the medics have ever suggested was about 18 months go when I was recovering from surgery.

There is good evidence that intermittent very serious fasting not only has no drawbacks but is actually good for you, amongst other things triggering stem cell regeneration.

Roryoc. I am now at my weight target, so I am only fasting for 36 hours once a week. When I was fasting longer I didn’t have trouble with either of them. It sounds like a long time but it isn’t long enough to have a problem if you are getting a balanced diet on your non fasting days. I don’t do supplements, but I am trying to care for my gut biome with a very varied diet. You might find the forum “Related science articles….” of interest.

Hi Roryoc, I mostly do 2 36-hours zero-calorie fasts a week. The only thing about muscles is I’m building them now! 18 months ago when I was trying to lose with the standard eat less move more approach I was gaining fat and losing lean body mass. I had been doing it for almost 3 years, it did get my weight down about 10kg. Cutting added sugars down to less than 20g/day got me another 7kg and 5:2 has taken me another 5kg or so.

If I wasn’t building some muscle, my weight would probably be a good bit lower. I also eat well above my TDEE on non-fast days, so that slows down the weight loss but I think it helps with building the muscle. Reducing fat while building muscle is a bit of a dance.

@roryoc 2 x 36 hour fasting is not a long time. If you are in general good health apart from excess weight then 36 hours isn’t a long time. I used to do 60 hour fasts (2 days). Im in maintenance now, so I do one day 36 hours. As long as you drink regularly its not a problem.

Hi GreigC, it’s my assumption, that when you follow a regime, like in gym or even in eating, you stop challenging your body. Just my view.
So, as you have hit a plateau, then try introducing intensity interval exercise and I am sure that you will see more weight loss.