This topic contains 11,627 replies, has 174 voices, and was last updated by hermajtomomi 7 months, 2 weeks ago.
FFS, my brain autocorrected your duet to duvet. So I didn’t notice the mistake til you pointed it out. I love the image you conjure though of you and DH… The duet going back and forth between you is of course just as it should be 🙂
Hi Carol, thanks for confirming my worst fears…it’s the wine. Waaaaah. Good luck with the fast and the Dr.
Hi Carol and Happy and Fast and Purple and Lichtle 🙄
I definitely think the sweats and the itchy skin (there is no rash) are connected with sugar and processed carbs, however we take them into our system. Wine acts for me like sugar. 😉 When it was applicable, I used to correlate the eating and drinking with the sweats. Now I will observe the reaction to sugars.
The question is do you have any sweats after a fasting day? If not, voila!
Cheers, Bay 🙂
Hi Lichtle,
It’s improving, thanks! I’m a bit impatient as the weather’s so lovely here this week, and I want to be out digging (I’ve got spuds chitted that need to go in!)… And running… And cycling… But I’m being sensible and not overdoing it (I’m not a man 🙂 ) I am OK for walking now though, so at least I can get some fresh air and exercise.
How are you post-Easter? Are you struggling now you’ve been ‘freed’ from the Lent challenge? Or has the 6:1 become a habit now?
I am glad to hear you are improving and at least not couchbound. As I was reading your post and saw you being sensible my brain immediately thought (she is not a man) and there you said it. 😉
I can imagine that you must be “itching” to get out and sort out your beloved veggie garden.
Well to be honest, I am still not quite sure how I feel about my sugar relationship. You see, I don’t want to delude myself or let wishful thinking carry me away. Reading all your posts, how you don’t like sugar any more and eat maybe a morsel of dark chocolate every three months I feel quite a bit “behind” and maybe part of me wants to catch up with you lovely ladies here. So when I say, that I definitely enjoyed the treats and chocolate (and above all jam) it is true to say that I also think that there is a realisation that it didn’t taste soooo great that it was impossible to resist for most of the week.
What made Easter different after a good lent was that I didn’t feel guilty and once you take the guilt away, I think you take some of the attraction away. Just musing.
You see when you were disappointed that wine was a culprit in your diet as it is your only vice, this is what I feel about sugar. There is no other treat for me (maybe coffee and I have cut that back to two cups a day). I don’t like alcohol, don’t smoke, take drugs 😉 or drink drinks containing any sugar, so if I take sugar away it seems to cancel out all my treats. So I am thinking that I want to get to the point that I feel not addicted and compelled to eat sugar every day, but can still enjoy and look forward to a treat without worries and guilt.
On a related note, I came across this article yesterday which addresses the issue of a society that is constantly feasting and not finding things or tastes special any more.
Happy, I hope you make a very speedy recovery and take care.
Hi Lichtle,
I had jam on Sunday – homemade rhubarb and ginger. Very nice. I used to have jam on toast most mornings, but now I don’t eat bread during the week, so no more daily jam. I still enjoy it occasionally, I just don’t feel the need to eat it every day.
That article makes sense.
I used to love Easter eggs when I was younger because it was a treat, we didn’t have chocolate on a daily basis. Now I can eat chocolate whenever I want, so why would an overpriced, overpackaged, and supersized egg be a treat?
A treat is something out of the ordinary that gives pleasure. So a cake or a chocolate every once in a while would be a treat. If you have it every day, it ain’t a treat! On a daily basis it’s no more a ‘treat’ than anything else you eat most days.
In fact after a few days with friends, when it’s all croissants and pain au chocolat, cakes and puddings, it’s a real ‘treat’ for me to have a natural yoghurt or a grapefruit!
Maybe I should start a campaign to reclaim the word ‘treat’ from the sugar eaters… 🙂
Maybe for you going forward it will be a matter of giving yourself permission to eat ‘treats’ at the weekend, so no guilt, and no feeling of deprivation because you aren’t giving it up for ever (a bit like 5:2 – I can have it tomorrow but sometimes when it is ‘tomorrow’ you don’t want it after all). And remembering that it wasn’t as nice as nice as you’d thought it would be!
Hi L
The overuse of “treats” is certainly a problem but I enjoyed the adjoining article about “hipster” suburbs in Australia. 🙂 2 of my kids live in these hip inner city areas but cannot afford to buy. The “units” they refer to at $680,000 are basically bedsits 🙁
Off to bed. The clocks going back to real time have thrown my natural clock completely. ‘Night. P
Interesting article Lichtle and very true. Generally something is looked upon as a treat when we don’t have it very often (when I was a kid it was chicken, we only had it at Xmas)! Somewhere along the way our criteria for what constitutes a treat has become distorted because for most of us it’s sweet food, or cheese or wine. None of which are particularly good for us. Why don’t we see a punnet of strawberries or an avocado as a treat? As the article says we have food in abundance. Most of us are in the fortunate position of being able to eat what we want when we want to. We don’t have to abstain, so in a way ‘treat’ ‘ foods have lost their allure but we are still wanting to ‘treat’ ourselves! I feel like I’m going round in circles with this but see a connection with my struggle to manage my consumption of ‘treat’ foods and their ready availability and my definition of a ‘treat’ food. I was much better off with the chicken at Xmas lol!
Hi Carol,
I think it is a question of redefining ‘treats’.
If your ‘treat’ food (eaten in excess) was what caused you (one!) to gain weight in the first place, then how is eating that thing a ‘treat’?
And if your ‘treat’ is full of sugar, then it’s definitely not a ‘treat’ for your body! It’s a toxin to be dealt with. ‘Ooh, what a treat, I’ve raised my insulin levels and I’m now fat, prediabetic, with metabolic syndrome… Lucky me’
And if you eat your ‘treat’ any more frequently than occasionally, stop kidding yourself it’s a treat! Or think of everything you eat regularly as a treat…
Obviously, that’s directed at all of us not just you, so think ‘one’ for ‘you’… 🙂
Hi Carol,
Just thinking about your question…
I do now see strawberries as a treat, because I eat them in season only, and increasingly only home grown (the flavour is so superior to the supermarket strawberries, and no chemicals!). So for a few short weeks we feast on strawberries 🙂
I’d only previously thought about eating food in season from a production/ food miles point of view, but of course it does keep it special too!
But I guess things I can’t grow, or that have a long season, and are readily available to buy just can’t count as treats 🙁
I am with you Happy, strawberries are definitely a treat for me too, even when I was a child and we grew them ourselves. The out of season fruits just don’t taste as good which makes them worth waiting for June!!! We also used to grow cherries and plums, but I have never bought a flavoursome plum in a supermarket. So I rather wait until I find some from a farmer’s market. They are so expensive and should be enjoyed fully.
Carol, when I was a child we only had meat on Sundays and on Mondays it was left-over days. It was definitely special and a treat.
Sugar was predominantly consumed in the form of cakes, which were only made for birthdays, weddings and anniversaries (luckily we were a big family 🙂 so we were not really deprived). Other than that it was boiled sweets that got you sore and bleeding gums after the fifth sweet a natural stop to over indulging.
It is definitely worth thinking about what we regard as a real treat and we will most likely surprise ourselves.
Carol, I am thinking of you and your doctor’s appointment this week, I hope all goes well and a solution can be found.
Hi everyone – a lovely lot of posts – the sort which had me drawing breath and readying my typing finger, only to find each time that someone has just beaten me to writing exactly what I was thinking! I was thinking about the great great of childhood Christmas chicken, too, Happy!
I decided some years ago that I was only going to eat things in their natural seasons, and it really has rekindled my appreciation of fruit and veg etc. We pig out on the glut, give stuff away, and the only way veg gets frozen is after I’ve turned it into soup, or a meal which can be kept already cooked, or stewed it to eat for breakfasts with yoghurt – and that doesn’t include luxuries like strawberries or asparagus, which are simply eaten until we’re sufficiently sick of them to be happy to wait till they come round again. The joy is, there’s always another season, with different pleasures, to come!. The freezer is used only for soups, cooked meals, stewed fruit and emergency supplies of bread, milk etc ‘in case it snows this winter and I dont want to go shopping’ if it begins to feel like deprivation, you have only go buy a few of the imported strawberries etc which appear in the supermarkets in January, and you’ll realise how little you’re missing!
Lichtle, no way are you alone! I think my threshold for ‘too sweet’ has changed, but I still enjoy my sweet treats, and it wouldn’t take much at all for me to slip back to wanting them daily, and liking them sweeter. I’m resolved to do the same as you: eat them on a 1:6 basis – but when I do, enjoy them to the full, giving thanks for them, rather than feeling guilty. Seems to me, that way we can both enjoy them, while heeding Happy’s so-encouraging ‘ooh, what a treat’ riff (She’s right, of course – thanks, Happy!) – but knowing we’re minimising the damage while maximising the pleasure!
Carolann – let us know how you get on with the doc – will be thinking of you. And Happy, glad the back is mending. Don’t turn into a man, will you ? – those potatoes will wait! (I know they should go in on Good Friday, but it was early this year – there’s still time!)
@FFS, we are putting into practice the principle of famine and feast, making our feasts so much more enjoyable and you are right we need to cultivate a sense of looking forward to having something. This is really true for anything in our life. If we have to save up or wait for something it becomes so much more enjoyable.
Hi gang
I feel the whole 5:2 experience has totally resurrected the “treat” thing for me. As the amount of food I now eat is so small, and I choose very carefully, any food I eat now is a treat.
For a while, on the realisation that I would be eating very little for the rest of my life, I was quite disappointed. Then I took up rejecting food unless it reached the ‘superior food’ test.
I try to thoroughly enjoy every morsel of food (even if I gobble it down) and I stop eating anything that doesn’t reach my high standards. The worm farm does very well 🙂
Treats can be a brazil nut, 1/2 an avocado, berries, trout mousse, a slow cooked lamb shank, a juicy plumb.
I guess the thing that makes food a treat really is the rarity of it. Anything becomes dull if it is overused or too readily available.
Thanks, again, Dr M, for giving us the skill to find “treats” again in everyday life. P 😉
You are totally forgiven, Happy, because you’re right.! Good corrective to backsliding – just human nature is not always to want to hear it!
P – yes, absolutely! I reckon I now treat money and calories in the same way: both are in short supply, so I think very carefully before I ‘spend’ either! And yes, L – spending money – or calories – already saved is so much more satisfying than being in debt – whether that is financial or fat. I try to equate my NFD days with going out with money (calories) available – but there’s no way it (they) is/are going on inferior stuff. Sweet, savoury, carb, protein or fat – the question now is always ‘is this worth my precious calories?’ Hopefully that principle will keep us all on the straight and narrow!
Lichtle, I have 2 compost bins and a worm farm for food scraps. The worms are in a multi layered box. They get fed food scraps (no onion) which they process. Rain runs through it and into a bucket. This “worm wee” is used to feed my vegetable garden. After many months they are shifted up a layer and the beautiful black residue is dug into a new veg patch. Yummy! P 🙄
Hi Lichtle,
We also have a worm bin (same design, stacking layers, with a tap for drawing off the exudate).
Our worms are not producing much of anything though! Don’t think they like Cumbrian winters 🙂
Oh, and they do roam at night P! It stood in the house for a while last winter. If the light was off they’d head off across the floor…(flagstones not carpet! It’s not quite a hovel, honest!)
Happy, they like to be covered up in cold weather and wet down in very hot weather (not that you would know about that 😉 ). I also used to “cook” for them when they were new. Much to Mr P’s amusement. I’d pop the scraps in the microwave with a little water and add some flour and milk powder to strengthen the little darlings up.
The thought of worms (and leeches) wandering around the house at night just doesn’t bear thinking about. ;( P
Check out this link re food and exercise:
http://www.abc.net.au/health/features/stories/2015/04/01/4208399.htm
P and Happy, I also have a worm farm for the kitchen scraps, as well as a compost pile that I pull apart twice a year (not as good as bins, but I lack the space). The garden certainly enjoys the pee (tea) and castings, and the worms seem happy, multiplying – and not travelling at night! I don’t think I would want to give them house-room! Not very good pets, no good for snuggling up to. They don’t like citrus or protein, either. I have finally found out how to keep the fruit flies away in the summer, with layers of newspaper.
Hi VPE, I’m not yet at goal but often read “The maintenance chat box” one day it will be me! Just wanted to say how interesting and true the posts about “treats” have been, yours particularly struck a cord. It’s so nice to have someone put into words how I was feeling but hadn’t quite put it all together into some workable rules. The what,why and how of it all. You have given me a framework to eat by. I am going to keep this post and read when in need of inspiration. THANKS. GL
Well OH tends them, adjusting moisture levels, adding paper, etc. I think the trying to escape when the lights were out was a sign all was not right in worm world, but it’s OH’s baby so I don’t interfere too much. They don’t even get through all our kitchen compost, and we’ve had them over a year 🙁 Lucky we have compost heaps too, and they are always hungry!
Amd for info they have spent this winter out, wrapped in a blanket, checked this week and still alive…just lazy.
And no citrus or meat for them, although the instruction book says they like cake…!
Ps to the worm discussion: as well as making compost for the garden, they do breed in there, and you can sell worms (if that doesn’t feel too much like selling the kids) to firms which supply anglers. Try googling ‘Wiggley Worms’ for more info. We don’t do it on that scale – though DH goes through phases of re planning the garden to make space for a worm farm big enough to do so – but I gather it can be quite lucrative.
Hi P,
No, OH is careful not to overfeed them. And most of our kitchen waste goes straight to compost as a result. I guess I just had unrealistic expectations…or perhaps we just eat too much veg!
He says their tower is nearly ready for its next layer, so hopefully there’ll be something at the bottom for me!
FFS, I hadn’t thought of worm farming for anglers. But I know OH, he couldn’t send them to certain death 🙂
I’ve never heard that they can be overfed. I just throw in the accumulation of the smaller items every day or three, and they seem to cope with it. I understood that the more food went in, the more they bred babies to cope with it.
Welcome, Goosey. I was a lurker for a long time, reading the postings, before I got the nerve to jump in on these friendly groups. Lots of good information, tips and support to be found.
@gooseylucey, welcome and lovely to hear from you, come and join us whenever you like. 🙂
Has anyone else found, like me, they have become creatures of habit and can’t fast on a day that is not their normal fast day? If I decide to change the day, my head just keeps telling me “it’s not Monday or Thursday, so why aren’t you eating?”
It is also SO much harder to fast (for health reasons only) when my weight is 4 kg below my goal weight, but still well within healthy.
Is this what you would call a classic third world problem?
Discuss. 🙂 P
P, I much prefer the habit of Monday/Thursday, it means that no thought or effort has to be put into the day. To this extent, I preferred fasting at home on Easter Monday, rather than swapping to Tuesday, even though I find it much easier to fast at work, where there is more distraction. I also drink more at work, with a water glass on my desk to sip away it. So in fact I cannot remember having changed the day! 🙂
I have calculated my goal as being between 56 – 58 kg, and am 500gm off that this morning. That gives me a BMI of 20 – 21, which I am fully happy with. And I am comfortable in size 10 clothes.
We seem to share many similarities. By the end of next month I will be 64, my eldest will be 40; two children living in central Sydney; worms. 🙂 . How tall are you?
B
Hi Barrata
Yes. 56-58 is my natural weight. (Funnily enough I initially typed 66 and didn’t notice!!!) I fast only on Mondays and Thursdays. Missed this Monday, then had a social date on Thursday. But I am still 57, so it doesn’t matter! I seem pretty good at noticing if I need to eat lower cal foods 🙂
I think I’m 164cm tall. I’ve shrunk a bit over the years. Wear size 8 in most things or small. But many are xs and even 6. Crazy! These sizes didn’t used to exit. I have a quite different shape to when I was young. Much small in the nether regions now.
Also 64 this year. Married for 43 years. A great time of life to gain control of one’s health to enjoy the years of freedom after raising 4 kids. 🙂 P
Hi Barata and Purple and all
Big birthday family celebration all done and dusted. 39 people all fed and watered and home resting before next gathering this afternoon. 😉 Amazing how little sweet stuff is needed post Easter. I will always enjoy a little sweet, but lots of foodstuffs are treats. Avocado, Greek yogurt, chia seeds and raspberries, blueberries, strAwberrbies, raw Brazil nuts. All are delicious treats. 🙄
I find I cannot now eat milk or white chocolate, or lollies (candy) or anything that is too sweet. A tiny square of dark chocolate goes down a treat 😉
Interesting re the worm farm. My DIL has one for the garden.
Cheers, Bay 🙂
Wow, Bay! 39 people. That’s a lot of mouths to feed.
Great work on your sweet tooth too. I agree re white chocolate. I used to enjoy Green and Blacks or Divine, but it really is far too sweet 🙁
P, yes, motivation for fasting is harder when you don’t obviously need to. I know it’s not the same for him, but does Mr P struggle at all with motivation? Is it easier for him if you fast too?
I fasted yesterday. I had been feeling blobby (monthly water retention rather than fat I think), and had a half-hearted fast on Monday, but yesterday the planets aligned to make an easy fast day (sunshine and warmth also helped!). Went to bed with that fasting high, and woke up with it too. Just a shame our lovely spring weather is going to abandon us for the weekend 🙁
Morning Happy (and other western hemisphere folk)
Had to turn back from my afternoon walk as it is so cold and drizzling:(
Funny you ask about Mr P. I don’t think he craves food as much as me. He’s terrific at going all day without food. As he works, he doesn’t know if I’ve slipped. I now don’t tell him until the next day as he instantly drops his fast to join me if I mention it 🙁
Also, summer meals are easier as he’ll happily eat any salads, but won’t eat soup in winter. Big dilemma as it means cooking each night, not just grabbing soup from a big pot in the fridge.
How do you manage Mr Grumpy? P
Hi P,
Naughty Mr P! What is it with human nature that we are so easily influenced by the weak will of others? I like your sneaky don’t tell him until it’s too late to influence his behaviour 🙂
Mr Grumpy does like soup, but he’s particular! And doesn’t necessarily want it for an evening meal unless it’s rich and meaty, more like an overly liquidy stew than a soup.
We always eat evening meal together, and I try and make something for both of us but then give him more meat/ carbs and that seems to work. So something like a shepherd’s pie would have a cheesy potato topping for him and a plain root mash for me… Last night though he cooked himself steak and chips while I had fast day frittata… He didn’t eat all his chips and it took monumental effort not to sneak even one!
Summer’s are much easier. In part possibly because he’s more hungry (evenings spent in outdoor physical activity after work) and also the endlessly variable combinations of salad/ mezze meals, much of it freshly picked/ layed and straight to the table.
Hi PVE, I’m with you can only fast Monday’s and Thursdays although if I have had a particularly bad couple of days and really feel like I need to fast, I do what I call a half fast – fast as per normal during the day but have a small normal tea. I don’t count the calories.
Bay I’m Impressed – 39 people is a Herculean effort!
Happy I’m also impressed with you because I couldn’t have resisted those chips! My weakness!
So I weighed in at less than 59 yesterday. So happy because haven’t been below 59 for about 4 weeks now. I’m so pleased to know that if I fast I can lose the weight, that it’s not being totally controlled by my thyroid. Saw another GP Thursday who seems very informed about thyroid and he has referred me to see someone else even more informed so am hopeful I can get this issue resolved. Had a great fast day Thursday. Nothing til 2pm and then a few slices of Apple and a couple of almonds and a very small serve of curry for tea, no rice of course ha ha! I’d forgotten how empowering fasting feels!
PVE, for me Monday fasts are pretty entrenched as I find them the easiest, probably because I indulge at weekends but the second fast day can be Wednesday, Thursday or Friday. If my Thursday fast was sabotaged, I generally give it another go on Friday and if I feel I need to lose weight I might do Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I suppose because when I was losing weight I did 4:3, for me there is no fixed day.
I have just googled this BBC report on dementia and I came a cross an article of May 2011 which said the exact opposite, so I am taking this article with a pinch of salt – a massive one. Having read the Ben Goldacre’s book “BAD Science” and his frustration about scientific reporting in all Media (that includes the BBC) I am left totally cold by this new report.
Since Dementia is mainly an illness of progressive age, is it a case of obese people not living long enough?
@carol, well done for an excellent fast and I am so pleased for you as it seems you have confidence in your fasting and your medical system, that is wonderful.
Wow, Bay, 39 to feed – and to fit into one space! Well done, very impressed.
I think the science is still out on dementia, but in the meantime we will do what’s healthy. Where will we be celebrating our 100th birthdays, P?
Just been measured again, used to be 170cm, now 167.5 – the incredible shrinking woman, in all directions! 🙂 So 56 – 58 might be a bit low, perhaps it’s time to work on the toning. I’ve just done some calculations, and 58 gives me a BMI of 20, which will do! 58.8 this morning.
My alcohol and treat-free week is going well. I’m surprised how easy it’s been to give up wine. I don’t miss it, am not thinking about it, even when OH has his evening tipple. And no evening snacking, because I ‘don’t do that’ any more – probably partly because I’m not wine-relaxed!
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