New thoughts on fast, with apologies to Herbert Shelton, et. al.

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New thoughts on fast, with apologies to Herbert Shelton, et. al.

This topic contains 19 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  bachcole 7 years, 9 months ago.

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  • I am happy with fasting, but I have had some problems/issues that I believe I have thought through, mostly about long fasts, that I want to share. Long fasts are reported to go deeper, to do deeper “cleansing” than short fasts. I have no problem with the short fasts, called intermittent fasting. I do them often. But the long fasts go deeper and do more. Even cancer cannot stand up against the long fast. There are very few ailments that can endure a long fast (except starvation itself, anorexia probably, type 1 diabetes, and other wasting diseases.).

    But the problem that I have been having { aside from the willpower problems (:->) } is that I get constipated.

    The theory of fasting includes the idea that the intestinal tract needs a rest. My intestinal tract has been working 24/7 for about 70 years and 11 months. But “they” say that it needs a rest. My heart has been beating more than 71 years; does it need a rest? Perhaps I should stop my heart from beating for 9 days in order to give it a rest. Obviously, this resting of the intestines is not fully supported by deductive reasoning.

    And my gut microbiota? They did not sign-up to starve to death with a 10 day or a 20 day fasts. The gut microbiota almost certainly take a terrific hit when a person fasts for long periods of time. And the gut microbiota is probably your best friend when it comes to health. This has been my biggest theoretical problem with the long fast since the beginning. Please be very nice to your gut microbiota.

    And here is another problem with the long fast. “They” say that we live off of the stored nutrients in our body. But what if we didn’t get sufficient micro-nutrients in the first place when we built up those fat cells that we are now breaking down. (I am positive I wasn’t getting enough magnesium when I built up my fat reserve; I have to supplement magnesium now or my health will decline rapidly; I know this as a fact since I have experimented with supplementing with magnesium on and off numerous times, and the “off” always costs me health and happiness and the “on” always brings health and happiness back.) What about that? Of course, in Herbert Shelton’s time or Upton Sinclair’s time or Paracelsus’ time or Hippocrates’ time this was not a problem. ALL of their foods were nutrient rich. If they got too fat or too diabetic or if they got cancer, it wasn’t because of micro-nutrient deficiencies like selenium or chromium, etc. But that is a genuine problem for us modern folk with our processed foods and artificial fertilizers.

    My solution to this conundrum is the slowing (like fasting). It is possible, even doable, even easy to eat salads every day that are so low in calories and carbs and moderate in protein, a ketogenic salad, such that one is still de facto fasting. The fiber in the greens and onions and other salad mixings of one’s choice still feed the microbiota. Your microbiota will thank you for your consideration. One’s intestines now get moderate exercise and keep one “regular”. With regard to resting the intestine, this is like sleeping is to the heart. And you insure that you are getting sufficient nutrition.

    The trick of course is to get a variety of organic veggies that are extremely low in carbs and calories. This morning I used lettuce, tomato, radish, and celery. But any extremely low calorie and low carb veggies will do. I even tossed in a few dried apricots since I didn’t want to toss them away; they gave my teeth a good workout. One also has to find a salad dressing that is paleo or at least not dreadful; I found one this morning at my local conventional grocery store.

    The thing about this “slowing” is that since there isn’t anything else that I can eat, I focus my mind on taking the time to buy and prepare worthwhile salads properly.

    Is it a real fast or part of a real fast? I will not enslave myself to a concept or label when I can perhaps do better. The slowing starves my body of unnecessary calories (unnecessary as long as I have a big belly and am 25 pounds overweight). It starves my body of undesirable carbs and excess protein (undesirable and excess as long as I have insulin resistance). Does it uplift my spirit and cleanse my mind like a “real” fast? I haven’t had time to evaluable that yet. But I sure am enthusiastic about breaking out of the prison of what other people think a fast should be; is that uplifting? It is so far. Does it still exercise one’s willpower like a “real” fast? I don’t know yet; probably.

    Autophagy and apoptosis will still happen with the slowing and its extremely low glucose and calories. The risk of problems from a lack of nutrients is reduced to zero. And autophagy and apoptosis is where the magic happens.

    So, because of these ideas, I encourage anyone who wants to do the long fast to consider these ideas that I have presented. And any intermittent fasters, I strongly recommend that you make sure that you are getting more micro-nutrients than usual while doing your intermittent fasting.

    Sincerely,

    Roger Bird, aka bachcole

    Really enjoyed your post, Bachcole. Thank you.

    Thank you, Fuvvie. That means a lot to me. Spread the word: we can think for ourselves. (:->)

    ” Even cancer cannot stand up against the long fast. ”

    prove that massive and sensationalist theory, and you’ll have done your life’s work.

    i have read everything that shelton and his cohorts wrote. its why i ate raw veg only for a year. it didnt restore me to health and take away pain, it made me fragile, frail, desperately depleted and lose 8 stone which was very bad as it took me to dangerous underweight.
    i can assure you, assure you, that water fasting is the best type of fast.
    yes i know you wont agree. but if you really read about proper fasting benefits, you will see that michael wrote is true. that he only introduced a few calories into the fasting days so more people would do it and see the benefits. h thought it would be seen as too rigid.
    herbert shelton was also barmy.

    I am not required to prove anything. But I suggest that you muster the curiosity to investigate the claim as it would be very valuable if true. Since I cannot remember all my sources, I can’t remember where I saw it, so I can’t “prove” it to you, but I do intuit it also, and I trust my intuition, even if you don’t.

    Try Valter Longo for research on the benefits of fasting plus chemotherapy?

    I am confused. You said that you read Shelton, and did as he said, but that you became underweight and it did not heal you, yet you then turned around and said that the water fast was the best type. That doesn’t make any sense.

    I am suggesting an improvement to the straight water fast that may have worked and may have not caused you to become underweight. And my suggestions are based upon sound reasoning. Please respond to my confusion in my first paragraph and then also to ideas in my initial comment that make me question the water fast in the first place.

    1. The problem with stopping the gut altogether when it hasn’t stopped like the heart in over 70 years.
    2. The starving of the gut microbiota when they are so vitally important.
    3. Our nutrient deficient fat cells that most of us have and all of the other ancients did not.

    i said i did what a naturopath told me. not shelton. cos he was mental.

    short term i think water fasting is great. i wasn’t doing that. i was doing raw veg only. sorry, i didnt realize i had said i was doing water fasting.

    if you proved to michael or a hospital or anyone that fasting cures cancer, it would be more helpful than me, for example, going to the head research centre of cancer and saying, ‘some old man on the 5,2 forum ‘follows his intuition’ that he can’ cure cancer’ by making people fast stop eating.’ s.o it does require a bit of proof, you see. and you cant tell them that you ‘cant remember’ where you read it either. not very impressive!

    if you are going to help people, and not just throw around outrageous claims, you’d better do it. or its dangling very dangerous poisonous carrots in from of the faces of all those who are watching their loved ones atrophy today from cancer eating them alive.

    if you truly believe you personally have found the cure for cancer, get 50,000 cancer patients, convince them to stop all treatment- good luck with their families on that one- and water fast them. if you believe it, cure cancer. how loved and respected you would be. if i believed it, i would do that. but i don’t.

    just stick the the 5,2 .

    sorry bout your constipation -TMI- i suggest metamucil, psyllium.

    i just checked!

    i never did say i had water fasted. not once did i write that.
    i said i had done the raw veg only. eaten raw vegetables solely.

    so the rest you added onto that false assumption is obsolete now.

    i am sure water fasting is better than eating because of science. i have never done it. you dont need to have had a baby to know they get born and dont fall out the sky.

    bachcole,

    Nothing wrong with what you propose. Do it and if it works it cant be wrong. Go for the cruciferous veggies if you want to really go low carb. Your gut flora is a function of what you eat so if you change your diet you will change the gut flora.

    I notice that you did not address my points but instead just tossed around abusive and unproductive remarks suggestive that not only do you not think for yourself or think outside of the box, but you abuse other people who do. If I could ban you from this thread I would. But I can’t, even though it is “my” thread.

    Roger,

    I mentioned Valter Longo’s research on fasting and cancer, but have you come across the Fasting Mimicking Diet? It sounds similiar to what you propose, calorie restriction but with nutrition, for 5 days every month or perhaps 3-4 times per year. There’s quite a lot of references to it on the web, e.g. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/06/150618134408.htm?trendmd-shared=1

    I understand that the FMD diet is available at a price in some countries, but there are also home-made versions on the web, e.g. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/wellbeing/diet/why-weve-all-been-doing-the-fast-diet-wrong/

    I hope you’ll keep us updated with how you get on with your ‘slowing’ which certainly sounds to be your own version of a fasting mimicking diet.

    The reason that you are so shy is that you hate others and consequently feel that they hate you. Examine and clean your heart and perhaps you won’t feel so shy.

    Dear HappyNow, nice handle. I will check out those links.

    With my (and probably most) methods, a person can push as hard as they want, as long as they understand the principles involve: autophagy, apoptosis, ketogenesis, etc.. Yesterday I ate twice as in the archetypal intermittent fast. Today, I pushed a little harder and just ate once. When I get to my normal weight, my hunger will either be greater or I won’t feel the need to push so hard against the hunger and my weight will stabilize.

    Getting true to one’s real hunger helps a lot. Today, I just wasn’t very hungry and eating only once was fine. If I were to be diagnosed with cancer, say, my motivation would be much stronger and I’d probably eat just greens and very little else.

    Roger,
    I suspect I’m like you, not pushing myself hard because I haven’t got any obvious medical conditions. However there is a history of cancers in my family so, since the research suggests longer fasting may have a preventive effect against cancer, I really don’t know what I’m waiting for! Something to overcome my apathy obviously!

    I still have about 25 pounds to go and could slip into diabetes if I am not careful. But, like you, this fasting etc. is my health insurance. The monetary health insurance doesn’t help so much when one is writhing in pain, which I have done. (:->)

    i have never abused a person in my life. wrong use of terminology, there. i spoke my truth, that is different.

    but you’re really naughty if you , as you claimed, know the cure for cancer and are not trying to make it widely know.

    re. whyamisoshy. it’s using a mode of expression called irony. and i dont hate people, i love them. and they love me. so you are an exception. at 70 you should be less defensive and a far better judge of character.

    and, how did you get overweight?

    mother theresa said writhing around in pain brings people us closer to Jesus Christ in his immense suffering.

    I noticed last night that my title should have read “New thoughts on fasting, with . . . . .

    Sorry about that.

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