Good morning all. The rain has cleared overnight. Beautiful sunny morning with everything looking crispy clean and smelling fresh.

Craftgirl – I started keeping tabs on weight and food intake using an exercise book. I also used it to write all the little hints, tips and useful info in the back of the book for easy reference.

I then purchased a Fitbit watch and along with the Fitbit app and Aria Fitbit scales and find the 3 combined an easy non fuss way to record exercise and food. Was it LJoyce who loved data ? Well I’m the same and I love the vast array of info the app provides. It takes a bit of time to log food/calories into the app for the first time but once its done recording intake is very easy.

Im not keen on My Fitness Pal because of their privacy policy/personal data access. Im very weary of these things and found MFP app to be very intrusive. But thats just me and I’m aware there are many who swear by the app.

Thinatlast – yes I like your suggestion of not adding a 3rd FD (it was something I wasn’t looking forward to) and cutting out carbs instead. I dont use sugar anyway so that ones easy. Rice and pasta I have occasionally but my downfall is bread. I eat wholegrain and also rye daily so will psych myself up over the next few days to eliminate bread and see if it gets me over the plateau.

Cinque – I’m picturing you sitting by an open fire, crocheted blanket and cat on your lap, bread in a basket rising on the mantal, a pot of tea and a dainty cup and saucer next to you while you knit away madly! Probably not all of the above but it’s a lovely picture indeed!

Enjoy the day everyone.

Oh, forgot to say, I am now wearing my real wedding rings again, instead of the stand in one.

Good afternoon all,
I have been reading with interest your story and explanation of diets LJ. It sheds light as to why people can’t keep weight off after losing so much, no plan for later. I also noted when you said the slow weight loss of 5:2 with a large amount to lose would be disenchanting and you would bail on doing it. Shows you still need a lot of commitment to stick with this way of eating. Congrats to everyone for sticking with this.
I had a strange feeling yesterday afternoon, I had lunch around 12pm a corned beef and salad roll and an apple then at 3pm my stomach was growling like it was a FD. I did nothing about it but it was a strange feeling and made me think how I could be that hungry after having a meal not long ago.
As to counting all cals on non FD’s, I reckon I would quit all the things I don’t need to look good on paper. That may be a good thing with snacking for sure. I might try it for a week to see what comes up. It will be true with beer included and I will report my intake per day average in energy over the week of non FD’s.
A good choice to move my FD to today with lots of rain and being indoors and now I must go get dinner from the shops as my daughter had my last soup on the weekend.

First day today of cutting out bread. So for brekky instead of scrambling my eggs and eating on toast I cooked the beaten eggs in a frypan without stirring so it formed a slightly crispy base but was still soft ontop. That became my ‘toast’. Half a chopped chilli sprinkled on top with 140g steamed spinch. Yum.

Downloaded Jason Fung Complete Guide to Fasting and Eric Westman Keto Clarity on my e-reader last night. Skimming through them both looks like some interesting reading ahead.

It was my FD yesterday but I accidently went over and consumed 600cal so having a semi FD today & tomorrow of 600-700 cal each day as I feel like I need it.

Bonus this morning – I’m back to 69.5kg after rocketing to 71.9 last week.

Hi everyone, I’m in Auckland, NZ (emigrated here from the UK 5 years ago). Just about to start my first fast tomorrow, and am pretty scared to be honest. But I want to do something, as I am facing my 2x25th (yes, OK, my 50th!) birthday in June, and am aware my BMI is now 26 instead of the 24 it has been for pretty much all of my 20’s, 30’s and 40’s.

Hi Yvonne and welcome to 5:2, and great to have another Kiwi here.

Tori, frustrating but it’s happened to most of us at some time or another. The answer is fluid and food in transit. Sometimes our bodies hold onto more fluid than other times. It’s the long term trend down that you’re looking for and the daily weigh and sometimes the weekly weigh is a dot on the graph. Your next figure shows that you did actually go down from that FD, so that’s good.

Onwards and Downwards,
Merry

LJ, your posts have made fascinating reading. I’m in awe of your dedication to losing weight. I can’t imagine how hard the VLCD was but I understand your point about how much more difficult it was to deal with food at 1,000 cals vs the meal replacements at 800cals.

I’ve been down over the last couple of days. I’ve mentioned before I’m doing this with my H who needs to lose weight more than I do. I’m having to confront the reality that I want him to lose weight more than he does. I think he uses food as medication – he has an incredibly stressful job. Over the last 2 days I’ve watched him eat way beyond his TDEE without seeming to notice. I got very sad about this. I love him and hate the idea that if he doesn’t stop this destructive behaviour we may lose him before his time. He’s told me recently of colleagues who’ve had strokes and heart attacks – and these are people aged between 38 and 53. But I’ve realised I can’t make him lose weight, and until he’s ready to make changes himself there’s little I can do.

So thank you everyone for the notes of encouragement you send to each other. It kept me from buying chocolate today when I bought milk. I’m doing my fasts for me. I’m about to turn 50 in July and I want to look and feel great.

I’m so thankful to have such wonderful people here to read about. Your stories and encouragement are a balm for my sadness. 💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐

Goodmorning! The more flowers the better Craftgirl!
My sympathies re figuring out your OH isn’t very committed to losing weight at the moment. Oh well he has to do things in is own way, and who knows what the future will bring. Something wonderful I hope. All power to you doing what is good for yourself.

I’m fasting today!
It is cold and so wet that everything is shiny. I’m off to have a coffee and catch up with a good friend who is also a chef!

Hope you have a great first day Yvonne!
Cheers to all the other fasters today, and good wishes too, to those of you eating wonderful normal food.

Another fast day over – well the eating bit anyway. Hope your first Fast day was ok, Yvonne. I had to keep reminding myself that 1. It’s only one day and tomorrow I can eat more food, and 2. How great it will feel to get to my desired body shape in time for my birthday. It’s amazing how these thoughts could keep me focussed today.

Thank you Cinque and LJ for your comments after my post last night. I’ve only been here for a little while but your support is truly appreciated.

Hope the scales are being kind to you today, Tori. I had the exact same experience this week after my Monday FD.

Good wishes to everyone tonight.

Happy Friday everyone. I must say that the breakfast after a fast day tastes so fantastic! And I can even taste the creaminess of the milk in my tea. I do have to remind myself to slow down and enjoy it though, as I’ve always been the type to wolf down a meal.

I’m feeling the cold today too Cinque. My boss doesn’t like air conditioning so for the last two years I’ve worn sleeveless dresses pretty much all year round, and on really cold days have worn a sleeved dress with very rarely a light jacket. Since I’ve started this WOL I’m feeling the cold again, although perhaps that’s because I’m finally over the seemingly permanent “personal summer”. I get home from work and quickly change into jeans, t-shirt and cardi. And it’s only May!! It seems like I’m back to being the tropical woman who can’t take temperatures less than 20 degrees, haha!

Update on H. After yesterday’s Fast his weight this morning was down 1.4kgs from his start weight, so even though his NFDs are diabolically caloric the FDs are still working. With luck he’ll continue to lose small bits and really start to realise how good it could be. I have my fingers crossed.

I’m down a little (200gms) but my waist is the same and my bust has increased. Huh??? Guess I’ll have to redo that again tomorrow as it doesn’t seem right (I’ve always been a bit challenged in the bust department). Also, i’m wondering if anyone has thoughts on woman with a more boy-shape waist. I don’t think I’ve ever been the curvy type and photos when I was younger still show me as being blocky around the waist. I’ll keep persevering and see if this changes over time. It’s still early days.

Hi everyone, I am returning to the 5:2 lifestyle after over a year where my weight has ballooned to more than I have weighted in 15 years. I was having success on the 5:2 and losing weight, feeling better and not noticing the fast days, then I went on holidays and just couldn’t get the motivation back for 5:2. I have tried several diets in the last 15 months but without success, so here I am. I will be fasting on Monday’s & Thursdays as these days seem to work for me. This week I have done Wednesday and today as I woke up Wednesday and decided I was going to do this and start then. My Wednesday fast went well but today I have eaten over the 500 cals so tomorrow will try and keep them down again.I did read something today that said Dr Micheal Mosley said he has relaxed the rules and you can now have 800 cals on a fast day. Does anyone know if that’s true or just something a magazine made up? I am also confused with the people here saying they are giving up bread. Are we supposed to not eat certain foods on our NFD??? I had success with this lifestyle as I ate any food I craved on my NFD and stuck to the 500 cals on the FD’s. Do I need to give up foods?? Any help appreciated and I really hope I can continue with this lifestyle as so many of you have and have done it easily. Thanks for listening (reading).

Welcome Redmoonstar, I hope you settle back into 5:2. I’ve been doing it for 4 months now and it feels very comfortable. I haven’t tried doing 800cals on FDs because I have trouble sticking to my TDEE on the NFDs so I can’t afford the extra calories while still trying to lose weight.
As Cinque mentioned, some people give up bread. What I’ve noticed over the years is that those with either insulin resistance or diabetes seem to do better when they restrict their carbohydrate intake. I don’t have either of these health issues and I do just fine with carbohydrates (including bread) in my diet, although I am fairly picky about which ones and I aim for high fibre whole foods that won’t be turned into sugar quickly by my digestive process (eg sourdough rye instead of white bread).

Cinque, sorry to hear about your injury I hope you feel better soon.

I went to the wood yard yesterday and bought a boot load of wood to last me until I can have a truck load delivered. Feeling a bit sore today from having to load & unload 200kg firewood, but I know it will pass in a couple of days.

I’m off to book club shortly, so more baking this morning. I made pecan honey chocolate chip muffins, and every single one will be leaving the house with me and not coming home again! I am confident that anything not eaten will find good homes to go to.

Have a good day everyone, stay warm.

Congratulations LJoyce, what good decisions!

I’m having a quiet day. Eating well, just had roast veggies, a piece of fish and green salad for tea. Fast day tomorrow!

Thanks Cinque & LJoyce for the replies and giving me the information I was asking about. I to enjoy sourdough bread from one of my other diets but try not to eat it to often as I tend to have to much at once. I find I can go well during the day eating minimal amounts but at night when I sit and relax is when I binge eat. This is a habit from my giving up smoking days and having to put something in my mouth instead of a cigarette. I just need to learn to break this habit and make a better non binge habit.
I need better will power which I’m hoping this will help me with! Have a lovely Sunday and a good FD.

Good morning all, we arrived home covered in red dust – a sure sign of a successful camping trip. Weather was perfect thanks Cinque, warm, sunny days and very cold, clear star-filled nights but we have good sleeping bags & we took plenty of wood. All the meals were made in my Dutch Oven over the camp fire, including two ‘family fast day’ recipes and a chilli con carne. We did a couple of hours of trail walking every day. The only downer was the first night, when a family with a 4 week old baby & a miserably unhappy toddler camped next to us and the baby screamed its lungs out all night long. On the second night a couple were playing music on the other side. By the last night, we were all alone in the silence and darkness and could appreciate the kangaroos, kookaburras and various critters that appear when humans are keeping a low profile. Very relaxing.

Merry, you’ll have a laugh when I tell you that I took the travel scales! I couldn’t find a completely flat place to use them though and, not being guided by my weight caused me to abandon any thought of a Friday fast. So, with the camping trip, one missed FD, my birthday celebrations before we left and yesterday’s lunch with friends I’ve landed 200gms over my trigger weight which today’s fast will put right. I’m so looking forward to it.

I’m going to make my second coffee and then respond to the posts I’ve just caught up with reading. Thank goodness we’re still on the same page.

Good morning fellow fasters,
Completed my FD on Friday, I seem to have changed my FD’s to Tuesday and Friday, I do like to have a beer on Monday’s while catching up on the footy chat of the weekend but we will see where it all goes. I might have to think about it a bit harder as I have mentioned in a very early post “When I have the kids over on a Friday night I tend to have only a couple of beers ” so I may be adding more cals to my week by changing my FD’s virtually adding an extra day I can have a few beers.
Welcome to Yvonne1967 and Redmoonstar, inspriation can be found just above from GDaySA with the 10cm lost from the waist, probably the best feeling is not being able to wear clothes due to them falling off you.
As to not having bread or other things on NFD’s, it is tinkering after you stop losing weight and or cm’s from just following FD’s properly for a while. Many of us on here had a fair whack to lose (15-30kgs) and when you get within 10kg or so of your goal weight it sometimes needs a little help to get to this with the restriction of some carbs like pasta, rice and bread. It is not the same for everyone though and the biggest thing is getting your two FD’s sorted and consistent first for a few weeks before you start tinkering.
Meals for the FD:
2 x white coffee’s 300kj, 500g minestrone soup 800kj, 100g kidney beans added to the soup 400kj Total 1500kj or 358cals.
*See how the beans help in the soup LJoyce

Happy Sunday everyone. I do love the flexibility of 5:2 – being able to wake up and decide today is a FD because both Monday and Tuesday are going to be too difficult.

Welcome redmoonstar. Joffy is right that you need to sort your two FDs first, but as an explanation some people here eliminate things from their diet as a personal choice. I tend not to eat much bread or sugar (including honey) but started that before 5:2 and was a result of not feeling great when I did eat them. The best thing about 5:2 is it’s your 5:2 and what works for someone else may not work for you and vice versa.

Thank you Cinque, Thin and LJ (and others) who have posted recipes on the SH recipe page and here. I’m a terrible cook (and believe me that’s not modesty speaking), but I hope in time to be able to successfully try some of the recipes listed. I tried the Thai style mussels recipe in one of the books and although it was OK my OH could only eat 4 mussels as he didn’t like the flavours. He said if he ate more it would turn him off mussels for life, haha. So we went back to poached eggs and smoked salmon that night. At the moment that seems to work for us and probably will until my OH gets more motivated to cook something different on a FD (he’s much better than I am).

Glad to hear you had one night of peace on your camping trip Thin. I like the idea of your trigger weight. Something to think about.

I also read someone here had a cardboard test for visceral fat, but couldn’t seem to find it anywhere. If anyone can remember it, I’m very interested.

Happy FD to those fasting today, and I hope everyone has a lovely Sunday. 🌷🌷🌷

P.S. I know it might continue to sound syrupy and gush a lot about the support I receive here, though I want to again say how important you all are to me. After foregoing a week of fast days in preparation for medical tests, I found myself in a very dark place both emotionally and in my relationship with food. After that week I was even questioning whether or not to fast at all in the following week.

I used to question how others could possible give up 5:2 and leave it all behind, since it works and is sustainable. Now I know!

Over that week of NFDs my food habits had slowly slid into sloppiness (in reality I was simply going along with the the way of the non-fasters around me) and as a result a dozen reasons why it would be ‘best’ to pass on my next scheduled fasting day, became pressing! Even though, in the midst of this, it dawned on me, ‘…oh so this is how it happens! This is how other Fastdiet members leave 5:2 and gain all their weight back!’ there was a ‘…yes but!’ that followed that went along the lines of, ‘Yes but, Minka, where on earth will you fit that FD into your schedule? You’ll crash. You’ve got to look after yourself and start again next week.’!

It was only that I returned to this thread to catch up on posts that sanity prevailed! Reading of everyone’s progress and how you are moving through your own challenges strengthened my own resolve and I rearranged my schedule to make it possible to squeeze in those two FDs last week and make them work! Had I not checked in here, I might have remained in the dark tunnel.

I don’t know if any of you are familiar with Leunig cartoons? My scenario reminds me of the classic Leunig entitled ‘Life You Lead’. I wish I could post a photo here for everyone to see since it typifies my exact experience! Amazing how just one week of innocently foregoing 5:2 proved to be so challenging. Again, just shows how powerful community really is, so thank you.

Cinque, I hadn’t seen the daily mail article that you attached, but I have read the NY Times article that it refers to – both articles basically cover the same ground.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/02/health/biggest-loser-weight-loss.html?_r=2
I actually came across this originally when it was posted by one of the other dieters who was doing the 800cal Very Low Calorie Diet(VLCD) with me. It had many of us in a panic about how restricted our TDEE might be when we got to goal, because we all either were or had been morbidly obese and were trying to lose enormous amounts of weight quite quickly. We could see the parallels and they were scary.
However I want the challenge the basic premise in these articles – that it was the weight loss that caused the lower than normal TDEE.

What the articles don’t investigate is whether this was a pre-existing condition. It seems to me that they have assumed that it was caused by the weight loss, but they haven’t proved that. They can only know this if they actually tested the same people prior to weight loss to determine whether their TDEEs before weight loss were the same or below the figures that equations such as Mifflin-St. Jeor provide.
I know my own current TDEE that I personally need to maintain my weight after weight loss is significantly lower that the accepted equations give. The calculator on this website comes in at around 1600cals, but I know I actually need only about 1400cals – a 13% reduction on what I “should” be able to consume.
However, I actually know that my TDEE was lower than the equation figures even before losing the weight when I was still morbidly obese, because I collected the data. Before attempting to lose any weight I just kept a food diary for 1 month and weighed myself weekly. I only recorded food but I did not count kilojoules as I didn’t want to influence my food choices by knowing their kilojoule count. However, because I had this data I was able to go back at the end of the month and work out the kilojoules that I had eaten each day (it ranged from 5500-11500kj but was usually in the 7-9000 range). My average daily intake was about 8200kj (1950cals) over the month that I recorded and my weight was fairly stable at 127kg over that month. However according to the Mifflin-St. Jeor equation I should have needed 2230 calories to maintain this weight. This means my actual needs were 13% below the equation.
So clearly I had a problem with my body requiring fewer than average calories long before rapid weight loss. I think it is also interesting that the percentage that I need to discount equations such as Mifflin-St. Jeor remained exactly the same before and after weight loss. I have and probably will forever have to eat 13% percent less than average to maintain any chosen weight. It occurs to me that this may have contributed to me being overweight in the first place. I just hadn’t learned that I needed to eat less than the rest of my family to stay the same weight. I’m sure if I had been born into a situation of poverty and famine, my body’s need for less calories would have been a survival advantage – probably how my particular gene traits developed in the first place.

Thin – I actually was serious in my offer to do a full nutritional analysis of 1 or more NFDs, in fact it made me happy to think I’d have a little bit of data to play with. I know, I know – how sad is that! Numbers always have been my comfort zone. It is most useful if you look at typical days that include meals you make often.

Hi Everyone,
LJoyce, I read your excellent post before I headed off to make my miso soup. Thankyou so much, it is such a good take on it. I’ve been ruminating on it.
The idea of mad ghrelin keeping us hungry and obese for the rest of our lives is daunting to say the least! Although there is lots of interesting possibilities, I hadn’t thought of your hypothesis.

My biggest problem is that I want to return to my childhood when I ate until I was full, and then stopped until I was hungry again, and that was a natural way to keep us at a healthy weight. I loved seeing my daughter grow up without my emotional eating problems and, thankfully, she navigated through the pressures of the beauty industry and the food industry so that (so far at least) she is a healthy weight and doesn’t have an unnatural hunger (as I have thought of it).

I can accept that I need to keep away from sugar and make very healthy choices, but I want that to work! (Making wailing sounds here!). I’m holding onto my theory that my body can get back into a healthy eating mode! Until I can’t anymore! Since that means continuing with 5:2 and healthy eating, I guess I shall find out!

Well, I am nicely full of my soup now! It has been a good fast day, and I’m aiming for a good non fast day tomorrow!

Lol, not lurking. I was reading a forum on bingeing and someone (from this page) referred to it. I spent about an hour searching for it but couldn’t find it, so thank you in advance for posting it again.

Minka, I agree that the community here makes a huge difference when you’re feeling down. Other forums are informative but this one has a special feel – the support and lack of judgement is the reason, I think. Well done for persevering through this difficult period.

Even though I haven’t been able to eat ice cream for over 15 years, my OH and children still ask me if I’m going to get an ice cream when they get one. The most recent time I explained that it wasn’t worth the effect on my body (lactose intolerance) however I hoped they would enjoy it. It was said calmly but inside my head I was screaming. Maybe one day I won’t have to justify it. Hopefully one day 5:2 will be considered “normal” eating and no one will feel pressured by OFMs to eat things they can’t / don’t want to.

Congrats to everyone here for making a positive change in their lives. 💐💐💐💐

Hi again everyone including new members!

I still have to catch up on a lot of posts, though I did see reference to a wonderful milestone with the 10 cm extra space GdaySA! Congratulations!

Thank you Craftgirl for the acknowledgement! You might have read in a previous post of mine that having to justify is one of the things I find most difficult. Reading how you responded to your family about the ice cream was very helpful. I’m glad I’m not alone in my feeling of chagrin around that.

Thin, I actually saw your post as I pressed ‘Submit’ as if your post was already there, so I was surprised to come back later and see that mine had actually landed above, not below yours.I wanted to read yours when I first posted, but had to hurry away from the laptop. My posts are often so long winded that I have a window open for an hour or more typing and editing and maybe this ultimately skews the time stamp and post placement in the thread?

Cinque and LJ, I’m wondering how much influence the gut biome has on TDEE? You’ve posed the gut biome theory previously Cinque, though I’ve just started to look into it. Don’t you have a book on the topic? Anyway, more and more I seem to be seeing published studies which link hunger, obesity and gut biome and this fascinates me. I even found a rat study in a science journal in which rats were genetically modified to be obese and even with that obstacle, the alteration/improvement of their gut biome via prebiotics ended up reducing their fat mass development and improved a number of other health markers. Below is a snippet from that study (I’ll post a link to the actual study in the science thread):

“We previously found lower fasting glycemic levels and improved glucose tolerance observed upon prebiotic-induced gut microbiota modulation (20). However, in the
current study, these changes were also associated with reduced plasma triglyceride levels, muscle lipid in filtration, adipose tissue mass, and oxidative stress and higher leptin sensitivity. This finding suggests that the improved metabolic phenotype observed in the prebiotic-treated mice is dependent on multiple mechanisms.

“Here, we unraveled novel mechanisms linking gut microbiota changes and metabolism in genetic obese mice and found that prebiotics improved leptin sensitivity in
diet-induced leptin-resistant mice.”

I’m pretty sure it was in an ABC ‘All in the Mind’ podcast that either Dr. Helena Popovic or Amy Reichelt stated that leptin is such a powerful appetite suppressant that scientists regard it as the ‘satiety’ hormone and wish they could bottle and market it since they feel that doing so would greatly contribute to a reduction in the rise of global obesity.

My own prebiotic experiement: Some of you might remember that I’m slowly ramping up my prebiotic intake via inulin. I’m up to 4 teaspoons daily taken in divided doses. I’ll soon be undergoing either a DEXA or DSM-BIA scan to determine the current quantity of visceral fat I’m carrying around and I’ll undergo another scan after I’ve been on 30 grams of inulin for at least 6 months to see if there is any change.

LJ, you’ve inspired me with your posts about tracking data. I’ve decided to start a diary which will track hunger, craving and appetite levels during this same 6 month period. I want to see if ingesting prebiotics in the quantity that I’ll be taking will make any difference to my bingeing patterns or frequency.

Sorry, just saw your new post Cinque, so here I am writing another! Yes! That’s the Leunig cartoon. Thank you for finding a link. I tried and wasn’t able to! 5:2 is the life I am leading, though the week of only NFDs, I felt like that character in the cartoon walking down that dark corridor! Reading posts here was like looking down the corridor with the light and reminded me it was the life I could again lead!

Thank you Thin!

Minka, MM has a new book due out next month called “The Clever Guts Diet” which may contain some helpful information. I’ve had IBS since I was 22, so I’ll definitely be reading it. Interestingly though, I find if I cut certain things out of my diet – lactose, sugar and bread – I don’t have many issues and like Cinque I have fewer cravings.

Good morning everyone,
Ooh that MM is cleverly ahead of the game! I wonder if a documentary will come out with his book?

I don’t have a book or any particular resource on the gut thing Minka, I keep my ear out for news though. Thanks for posting those interesting passages from the research. They are finding interesting things about the gut biome and ME/CFS too.

That medical segment I was talking about: she said they tried giving leptin to people to help them feel satiated, but it didn’t work. The process is more complicated.

I’m feeling particularly good today. Lovely day after fast day. My daughter and little granddaughters are coming at lunchtime. The baby has worked out how to crawl. Fun times!