This topic contains 208 replies, has 29 voices, and was last updated by Rob in Recovery 6 years, 7 months ago.
Rob,
That sounds like really healthy sensible thinking. Embrace fasting as a way of life, enjoy the journey, don’t focus and obsess on a goal.
You will need to work on the non-fast days, and it does sound like sugar is your Achilles heel!, but hopefully with time the fast days will influence your nom-fast day choices.
You can take back control from food. Hmm, man versus inanimate cake/ biscuits/ crisps/ pizza… !
As a member of the “weird and wacky” contingent, I need to state upfront that I don’t eat fruit or grains, or packet food — just so you know where I’m coming from! Trial and error has shown me that, as a recovering diabetic, this is what my body is happiest with. Everyone is going to find their own level, so good on you for persevering.
The fruit question is an interesting one. Fruit is basically sugar, albeit unrefined. Some people tolerate it perfectly well, others not so much. Since your weight isn’t shifting and you’re up for an experiment, why not limit yourself to a couple of fruits a day? If you find that doesn’t help, then you just keep experimenting until you discover what’s blocking you.
Operation Rob: The Science Project. 😀
Hi Rob,
Congratulations on your persistence!
If you do nothing else, read Jason Fung’s book, The Obesity Code. It will all make sense then. Really.
Fung is a Canadian Nephrologist who tired of treating people whose kidney disease was due to Type 2 Diabetes/Obesity. So he researched Weight Loss and has had success reversing diabetes with fasting/diet/lifestyle changes.
Re fruit, I find to keep weight down I can mainly only eat berries or cantaloupe on a regular basis. I love all fruit, especially the stone fruit we have had here recently over summer, but mainly see it as a treat. I get local farm cherries when away at our weekender and tend to gorge on those! In winter I do enjoy sweet naval oranges and tell myself (as with the stone fruit) that the fibre negates the sugar! But they are a treat!
Re exercise – research shows that weight loss is 95% what we eat and 5% exercise. Of course exercise is great for good health, but be aware it will increase your appetite. It is impossible to run off all those calories! I find the days I swim (laps) I am extra hungry.
Think of appetite as waves. They come and go, they are never stationary, they will pass. Appetite is exactly the same. I use this mental picture and stay busy on fast days, it helps me.
Keep going, you are doing really well in just not giving up. And remember you are still 12.25lbs lighter than you were!
Hi Rob,
Just keep on keeping on, and you will eventually get this worked. Your health, happiness and wellbeing are worth it. I have done umpteen little experiments on my journey, repeating them, and I’ve learnt heaps more about what foods do what to me.
Unless you are diabetic or have some other medical issue with fruit then it’s healthy to include fruit in your diet. I’m not diabetic, and never been pre-diabetic or had high blood sugars.
My body loves fruit, but to lose weight I had to stick to low cal low GI fruit – strawberries, rockmelon/cantaloupe same thing in diff countries, small apples, and I mean small, not USA small, small oranges, blueberries, lemons, limes.
I had to drop grapes, bananas, mandarins/satsumas, and few others because they stalled my weight loss. I seem to be a more extreme case of having things that stall my weight loss – not just grains and sugar but also legumes, lentils, chickpeas etc, some vegies, some high fat things, and some fruit. It’s a bit of a drag, but I got used to it while losing my weight (21kgs). I’m now at maintenance and sticking to 5:2 hoping to gradually add back in some of those but in much smaller portions
Keep on and keep posting. You will get there bit by bit,
Merry
Hi Rob,
I am sure you are right, the numbers on the scale are reflecting that big curry!
But I think you must be ‘overcompensating’ on non fast days too, otherwise you would be starting to lose by now. At least if you are staying the same, you are not gaining, good practise for when you get to goal and want to maintain.
Also keep in mind that exercise does make you hungry. Its great for a ‘feel good factor’ and overall wellbeing, but will have minimal impact on weight loss.
Do try to read some of Jason Fung’s writing, if not the book, google him and read some of his blogs. It might make things easier once to follow his reasoning and science.
Cheers from Aus.
Hi Rob,
Great news re the book, I am confident you will find it a great help.
I get it re the perfectionist stuff, there are lots of us with those issues I think. At least you know fasting works, you have had success and you will get back to it when you can. It gets to a point eventually that you have lost enough weight to feel so good about it that the food is not as important. Still important of course (!) but not enough to undo the fasting.
You have shown great determination in sticking around so long, lots dont. Food is so hard to manage for some of us because we still need to eat every day to survive! Its taken me a few years to develop a healthier relationship with it, I just wish I had found fasting years ago. If I do go overboard these days I dont panic like I used to and throw the towel in, I seem to be able to stay calm and focus, in the knowledge fasting will right things again without too much drama.
I hope you enjoy your evening with Jason Fung!
Hi Rob,
Great work! Slowly but surely is the way to go, you are gradually changing your eating habits without even noticing!
So pleased you are into the Obesity Code. It makes a lot of sense doesnt it?
I am not “doctor bashing” but I think Fung is a rare breed of doctor. He still has the passion to want to help his patients and really “cure” them. Not content to prescribe accepted treatment and then blame the patient for ‘failing’ he has used his amazing brain to find an effective treatment. I am certain this new understanding will really help you in your own journey.
Good luck with doing 2 “proper” fasts this week but remember, 5:2 is very forgiving. Especially if you follow Fungs advice and keep off the Insulin producing sweet stuff. The less you eat of it, the less you will crave it.
Well done on the running too, those endorphins can only help…
Have a great week, love reading your progress!
Cortisol actually is a stress hormone that has been sorta associated with “protecting the fat”. But that’s not all it does. Cortisol also stimulates production of HGH as well as cause autophagy.
You can alleviate some of the cortisol via butter and MCT/coconut oil in coffee. Though I am not sure what that does to HGH/autophagy.
I find that taking butter or oil right when I used to feel hungry was agood way to prevent my body from stressing out. However that worked when I had an extra 30-40lb than where I am now. Its nowadays barely working, maybe I should take more of it, no idea.
Thanks.
Srinath.
Hi Rob, good question re the cortisol.
From what I have read, the jury is still out on whether or not caffeine raises cortisol levels significantly. Some research even suggests that if we drink coffee daily then the body ignores this mechanism and cortisol levels are ok.
This is just my opinion, but I would say that Fung believes that the benefits of coffee outweigh any propensity for it to raise cortisol. People who are chronically stressed, sleep deprived or similar are constantly producing too much cortisol in response (fight or flight, which requires glucose)and the way I read it, it is this chronically elevated level of the hormone that leads to chronically high levels of glucose that in turn leads to insulin resistance.
I trust Fungs judgement! I love my coffee but remember you have a problem with it…..is it possible for you to just enjoy a really quality cup, say once a day?
Rob you have given me food for thought concerning my own coffee use. I have always joked that I am addicted to it because I get a withdrawal headache if I dont drink it for 24 hours. I justify this by the amount of enjoyment it gives me I guess, but I know if I thought it was a serious risk to my health I would find a substitute.
I have gotten my sugar addiction under control because the cycle of cravings/overindulgence that in turn led to a weight problem was impacting my health in the form of severe arthritis in my knees. It took me a couple of years of fasting to really become free of sugar and be able to consume it occasionally without bingeing on it and you are right that until I was in charge, I would become very defensive if my husband mentioned it.
I find it reassuring that someone with Fungs knowledge openly encourages coffee consumption, or perhaps he sees it as the lesser evil for people who are clinically obese? Or perhaps he is addicted to it himself!! (I am tongue in cheek here, I believe this guy is completely ethical)
I guess we all have to make our choices of what we personally ingest and how these substances impact our wellbeing. As long as they are informed choices.
Hi Rob and Nama,
Hang in there Rob. We’re all just a work in progress. There’s nothing magical about us. We’re all fallible human beings, even those who come across as being more ‘perfect’. They’re not, and we’re not dreadful by comparison. We can also get caught up in the trying to be perfect about our knowledge of all ‘this stuff’ when sometimes, as you say Rob, we need to act. Regardless of what Fung or anyone else says, researches or reports, you know you have a challenge with caffeine and it is seductive. At the moment I too am finding a little challenge with caffeine. I rarely have it these days , but I’m doing the ‘ well I had that last week with no effect (discernible) so maybe I could do it again this week. If it wasn’t having an effect I wouldn’t even think that way, and I know it’s a red flag to lay off,
Best to you both,
Entry
Hi Merry,
I guess what you are also saying is, we must be honest with ourselves. Fine to say things, but if we want to change our behaviour, we have to be really honest with ourselves concerning our motives and as Rob says, “Man up!”
I don’t envy you giving yourself a dose of the flu Rob, cant you decaffeinate yourself gradually? Yeah I know, another ‘all or nothing’ person!
Cheers..
I am the very definition of caffeine resistant. I have to stop drinking for a week or 2 if I am going on a long trip, and then I have to save it for the return run, and even so, just maybe 1 or 2 – and it simply does nothing after that. I am not too chronically stressed, except when I am on call (like now) and stuff is screaming for no reason.
Thanks.
Srinath.
Hi Rob
Keep plodding, remember you are still (virtually) a stone lighter than when you started.
Maybe still have the ‘big curry’ with your son, but skip the naan bread? And dont rely on exercise for weight loss. I know its great, but wont be reflected on the scales. You must be pretty fit to run 5 miles at a time! You may even be making some new muscle…
Have a great week!
Go Rob!
You know you can do it because you have done it before!
The spreadsheet is a great idea, or any form of recording. I still write in a notebook every day, reading back can be very illuminating.
Well done on quitting coffee, I hope its the last time too.
Your minimal gain illustrates how little exercise affects weight, its what goes in your mouth, particularly any form of sugar – but you know this I think!
Have a great fast day and a great week….
Hi Rob,
What I’m seeing, different from last week are the measurements – waist 108cm, total lost -15cm. Over the last month and a bit, from the top of this page there’s only 1/2lb difference. You may be not getting where you want to go quickly, and have been still doing sugar thing, but look, you’ve stayed stable despite it, and gone down a little in measurements. So you’ve learnt how to stay stable. That is an achievement in itself, even if it’s not what you planned. That stability of weight and measurements wouldn’t have happened pre 5:2
Good on you for giving up the caffeine. Step by step you are improving. The spreadsheet has been a great idea and insightful for you. Well done. Not everyone keeps records. You
Were right when you said earlier you just need to keep plodding on, and that is a skill as well. You can do this Rob.
Keep getting back on the horse.
Onwards and Downwards,
Merry
@rob in Recovery – I had a lot of trouble with losing waist fat while running. I think one has to get pretty lean before the middle goes. There are a lot of thin runners though and I was one in high school but that was decades ago.
The problem with working out is compensation. It is extremely easy to be too lazy or overeat or both after a lot of running. While you have earned it, it slows down the fat loss.
Since you are able to run so far, you can up your game but throwing in intervals. Run as hard as you can for say 30 seconds and the run slowly (or even walk) for a couple minutes and repeat like 5 to 8 times. The goal is to get your heart rate up to maximum while running hard and recover while running slow. Warning! That type of workout is a killer, it will hurt but you will also gain speed and strength.
However running is really hard on the body. So please be careful.
https://healthfully.wordpress.com/2014/01/26/the-crux-of-intermittent-fasting/
Hi Rob,
I came across this article and thought you might find it interesting – a long read but worth it I think. The author has impressive science based credentials and has fasted for 10 years himself. I hope you have time to read it.. cheers.
Hi Rob
I’ve been reading through your journey and although you say it’s all a bit rubbish at the moment, to me you are very inspiring. I’m new to the plan having started last month but I certainly recognise your ups and downs. I stopped the plan for two weeks after a three day holiday so I know how easy it is to veer off.
Don’t give up. You journey demonstrates that this diet works and that it takes a while to figure it out. Dont forget also that a lb of fat is pretty much the same in consistency and volume as a lb of butter (two packs) which means you’ve drained your body of a huge quantity of fat.
Good luck!
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