4:3+16:8+Bullet Proof Coffee – Any critique, just starting out

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4:3+16:8+Bullet Proof Coffee – Any critique, just starting out

This topic contains 19 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by  JohnnyR 6 years, 7 months ago.

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  • So this is for myself and my fiance. We both have slightly different goals but we work well at getting on the same page and being open about changes… but we do have fairly busy schedules so we need to take some short cuts where we can. My blood sugar is pretty under control where she still has the occasional carb crash.

    I will break down where we are and what we are doing and if there’s any suggestions or critique to making this work more efficiently, please let me know.

    My 4:3 approach: Fast M/W/F – This allows for flexibility by missing a day and still getting a 5:2 out of it. Sounds reasonable right?

    Eating periods: We aim for 6am/12pm/6am feeding periods. Good for leptin sensitivity and we aren’t really much for snacking anyway.

    Combining 16:8: We simply skip a breakfast on M/W/F and eat a light lunch and dinner. Close enough to a 16:8 without breaking out calorie counting.

    Bulletproof Coffee: I understand that by keeping the insulin down, the calories of the coffee (2T unsalted Kerrygold butter and 2T coconut oil) will not hurt the fast. Is this right? We make this mostly on M/W/F mornings. Otherwise we drink black.

    Other then that, we keep carbs very low and eat mostly all whole ingredient, minimally (if any) processed foods, with probably around a 40:40:20 Fat:Protein:Carb diet conservatively.

    Vices: We have a glass or two of craft beer or wine a few times a week. We do like cheese and though we don’t do American, it’s often soft cheese snacks but we know the lactose in it does contribute to sugar/carbs. We don’t workout but we try to get on our bikes once a week or so and plan to incorporate some interval workouts and kettlebell routines. We are trying to figure out how to work them into fasted workouts but it seems like it may be tough to do during a lunch break.

    I hit submit before thanking you for any thoughts ahead of time. I also don’t think we are going to eat super light in the feeding window of our M/W/F and I don’t want to make this a miserable experience so I think if I was to narrow down my question to just one, it may be “How important is it to eat 500/600 calories on fasting days with my hybrid plan?”

    Thanks for reading this lengthy train of thought. I just want you to get a full picture of our lifestyle.

    Hi. Hope you don’t mind that I will say my opinion. You’ve asked it. 🙂

    – bulletproof coffee = pointless calories. No need for them, if you want to lose weight. Also, if you want to fast x hours for the benefits (insulin, autophagy), then fast x hours. Zero calories.
    – way too much eating in total. In your place I would do it so: first I would create a base of 18/6 for all 7 days of the week. So only 2 meals a day, at convenient hours for you, preferably during daytime (insulin release is greater at dinnertime). Eating to satiety. After your body adapts to 18/6 (a few weeks), you go to next level: 5:2 or 4:3, by having only one meal instead of 2 (500-1.000 calories), in 2-3 days / week, at your choice. Or you can test other IF options, but this is another level up, so no need to give details now.

    Good luck!

    Hi pappadj, welcome to the forum. Like Adaline I agree with the bullet proof coffee, ditch it. We are all different so experiment in a simplistic way to achieve your goals.
    I follow the K.I.S.S. approach, “Keep It Simple Stupid”, works for me may be not for you. (No offence intended). On fast days 600 cals for a male, 500 for female, important, try to eat within an 8 hr window if having 2 meals, eg 12.00 noon and 7.00pm. Low G.I foods and include an amount of protein.
    Check out the F A Q section at the top of the page and also the other headings. I must also recommend you check out “The Basics for Newbies” authored by Simcoeluv, an absolute must read. Research your TDEE, again check it out at the top of the page and try to stick to it on non fast days.If you cannot do not sweat on it too much. All things being equal and a lack of serious or other health issues then this way of life can have a positive impact on your weight and inner health. The important thing is not to become hung up too much on making it difficult.
    We are all different, what works for me may not work for you.
    Good luck.


    Do you see any difference between 4:3 and 5:2? Would start on 4:3 gives you faster result?

    Adaline, excellent advice!! I’ll take it!!

    @rosiers. Maybe, probably. Given the option of 4:3 with some calories or 5:2 with zero Id take 5:2 with zero calorie intake. It boils down to what you think you can manage on a regular basis.

    Here is my critique on the bullet proof type coffee using butter and coconut oil.

    I love the taste and also the hunger killing effects, however it will raise your LDL .putting butter and coconut oil in coffee caused me and my wife LDL to both go over 100 on our blood tests. She is age 56 and I am 60.

    We stopped the coconut oil and butter … then LDL went less than 100.

    We both fast in am on coffee . Don’t ad saturated fats to your coffee such as butter or coconut oil if you want to live longer.

    we switched to healthy fat. We use raw nuts, I like closed fist of pecans blended using a Nutribullet.

    I don’t think there is an “evidenced based cardiologist ” that will support increasing your LDL.

    Increasing your LDL will cause you to die quicker. This is proved in the ” Harvard Nurses Study”

    Hi, I am a newbie having started 5:2 yesterday. I switched from trying to do Keto LCHF Low Carb High Fat which I found really tough to stick to while trying to lead a normal enjoyable life and really missing eating foods a enjoy (am writing this while enjoying a real latte which I’ve missed terribly) I can’t stomach Bullet Proof Coffe the coconut oil and loads of butter makes me want to puke and calorie counting is hard work. I know there is much scientific evidence to support a Keto LCHF fat burning WOE, so my question is if on NFD if trying to follow a LCHF diet, but not full keto restrictive, is still wise for the health benefits it brings? I haven’t seen any reviews from Michael on this WOE. I did note on the Fast Exercise page they have added a link to an article recommending LCHF.
    Am so glad I’ve switched to 5:2, I know I can commit and achieve this WOE, I’m not out to pig out on NFD, I just want to enjoy occasionally food/treats I love.
    I would appreciate any advice, thank you 🙂

    I haven’t really drank the Bullet Proof Coffee, but on NFDs I often add some ground flax seed to my coffee which is a good source of Omega 3’s. On FD I don’t do that because I think it interferes with my fasting. My primary goal while fasting is trying to improve my HGH production. It would be hard to list all the positive benefits I’ve seen from fasting and a lot of them seem to be impacts from higher levels of HGH. It is some guess work on my part since I’m not having blood tests to measure the levels directly. It simple has been working for me.

    So I keep my fasts very close to zero calories as I can. It used to be hard but it seems to be getting easier all the time. If Bullet Proof Coffee gets you through a fast though, it is probably a lot better than not fasting at all.

    Why on earth would anyone put butter in coffee! Sounds revolting, as well as defeating point of 5:2 with wasted calories. Can someone explain?

    I think Bullet Proof coffee is a bit of a waste of good calories and borders on a ‘snake oil’ fad. Black coffee is good though. The longer the non-calorie fast period the better. Plenty of liquids especially when you feel hungry. I just break that rule with a splash of milk in tea and coffee – but it helps me manage my fasting without feeling deprived/annoyed.

    I do 2:5 when I’m trying to lose quickly. This week I’m on fast day 5. I’ve overindulged on one and slightly overindulged on another, but all in all not too bad and I feel great. I like food so I try and cook a nice evening meal from a low cal cookbook with things like omelettes as a quick back up. My main weak spots are when I’m very hungry in the evening, there’s a bit left over from the kid’s meal, I forget to have a drink to stave off the hunger whilst I cook a meal. We usually eat quite late in the evenings, but I need to eat earlier on FDs or it can go horribly wrong.

    Everyone is different, you need to work out what’s best for you. Some people like the science behind it all and get complicated about what they eat. I like the science but just go for more veg, less red meat and minimum carbs as this seems to be broadly the bottom line of good health. But I also take a vitamin supplement and Omega 3 as a back up 🙂

    Johnny, aren’t you in danger of your body going into starvation mode with too regularly on low calories?BTW: I’m maintaining. Coming up,anniversary of hitting my target.

    Pollypenny, I would worry about the same thing. 5:2 isn’t long enough to do this, but fasting more days than eating would be a concern to me.

    Adding 440 calories to a cup or cups of black coffee seems counterintuitive. Plus the idea of drinking that — Yuk!

    5:2 is simple. You can eat whatever you prefer on NFD as long as you don’t go overboard. Weight loss is dependable. It fits in with my lifestyle of work, travel, getting together with friends and going out to dinner. I Why do people want to make weight loss complicated? 5:2 is sustainable.

    Absolutely, Califdreamer. It was the science behind IF that appealed to me and made me realise how sustainable it is. 20 years ago I lost weight on the F Plan, but there was no strategy for maintenance, unlike 5:2.

    Hi everyone, thanks to all of you for posting on all the different threads, it is helpful and encouraging. I am new to the forums but have been on first the 18/6 and then 5:2. I started my fasting journey at the end of Feb, having been overweight for a long time, started to realise if I didn’t do something by the time I was 60, I would be overweight for the rest of my life. I had tried various diets including low carb, but I would make a really good effort and maybe lose 1/2 kilo, then make less effort and put on a kilo, very depressing. Started 16/8 and for the first time in years something worked!!! I lost 2.8 kilos in 19 weeks. In search of better results I moved to 5:2, such an excellent plan! I lost a further 5.15 kilos in 12 weeks. I am so thrilled, at last an eating plan I can stick to for life, for the health benefits too. FDs can be hard but I start with 2 cups of tea with milk, breakfast of 1 egg, tomato and 2 mushrooms fried in teaspoon of oil plus water, coffee and milk mid morning and bacon bone soup, followed by home made milk kefir (1/4 cup) plus 1/4 teaspoon of honey as I love my sweet. Mid afternoon cup of tea with milk. The rest of the day I drink lots of iced water to combat headaches. NFDs I can’t be bothered to count calories but I do meticulously weigh everything I eat, so I don’t eat too much. Best thing about 5:2? It works, it doesn’t involve doing without anything I love, I don’t go mad on NFDs but if I want a glass of wine, a vanilla slice or a kit kat, I can have it, not all at once of course! All the time, I am working towards my weight goals – 4 more kilos until I am no longer classed as overweight and then I will be on to Stage 2 – another 15 kilos, I may have to do 4:3 or ADF, but it won’t be forever, one day I will have lost all the weight and then I will move to 6:1 for health for life, phew that’s a lot of words!!!

    Hi there, in my view, one should not focus to much on numbers. I stared fasting like this:

    1. 24 hour fasting twice a week. Seriously it was hell.

    And after 2 weeks, I was like:

    Two meals a day with 2-3 cups of coffee with cream in between – just coffee with cream – no fancy terms like BP Coffee.

    4 days as above, and 3 days with just one meal – Lunch (between 12 noon – 2 PM)

    Then I went on a 4 days holidays, ate lots of carbs, grains and suddenly the above fasting system became impossible. I was so hungry by 11 PM, and I ate bedtime snacks for 3 regular days.

    So I switched to 16:8 fasting regime where I have lunch 1 pm and by dinner 8 pm. Morning with a coffee which now I’m planning to switch with lemonade. Not a coffee fan and today I checked, that after 5 days of proper 16:8 I-fasting, I’m back to pre-holiday weight and no craving after dinner.

    So, in a way, every type of fasting is amazing. Start slow and then advance.

    Thanks Oliver for your input. We can certainly all gain the health benefits from fasting in whichever way works for us. I couldn’t do 24 hour fasts I would just end up needing wall to wall migraine tablets but a combination of 5:2 and if this doesn’t fit in with my commitments any week I use 16/8 instead. I know my knees will benefit from weight loss, but that aside I feel fitter and have more energy. I find home made kombucha and herbal tea are useful, healthy drinks, particularly if I am flagging on FDs.

    I will just say it again that don’t focus on numbers. 16:8 is as simple as 2 meals a day with no snacks in between. And as you will be consuming meals with low carbs (most processed food or grains, not the one in vegetable/ salad). 5:2 will become very simple. It’s a fact.


    Doing 5 midweek FDs doesn’t put me into ‘starvation mode’. I read a lot of Jason Fung’s blog tp make sure I wasn’t killing my metabolism. My fasting windows are long, and some days now are more about 22 hours fasting / 2 hours eating. I admit I did have a few days last year when I went a bit chilly during the day, which isn’t a good sign. But I find if I exercise that reboots the system.

    I’ve lost 15kg since I started 5:2, but most of that was in about 3 months Feb-Apr ’17 when I did the mid-week fasting regime quite rigidly. I had a slight break over the summer due to unusual circumstance but appear to just be able to fast enough to maintain. I want to try and lose the fat I have left via my regime of fasting + some exercise, and then switch to 4:3 to maintain. I’m increasingly less fussed about my weight, it’s more about becoming, being and staying lean.

    Overall I’m so pleased with myself. A year doing this diet has transformed me. I love to run, but it was getting increasingly hard. Now exercise is so much easier, and I’m running like the wind! It’s taken 10-15 years off me! Fast days and exercise are a great combination!

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