Patronisation of older people – is it worse if you are "cuddly"?

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Patronisation of older people – is it worse if you are "cuddly"?

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  • On another thread I broached the subject of the patronisation of older people. As quite a few members of the 5:2 brigade qualify for a bus-pass (mine I carry in a lovely little wallet looking like the old orange and white Penguin edition of Jack Kerouac’s On the Road), I wondered to what extent others experience this and how they deal with it.

    I’m 5ft 1in and although no longer obese, I still have a way to go and can reasonably be described as “cuddly”. It seems to be widely assumed, at least in the UK, that when a person reaches a landmark age – in some people’s book it can be as early as 50 – he or she suddenly loses half their brain and becomes incapable of understanding anything but the simplest language, has to be spoken to very slowly and very loudly, on the assumption that s/he is daft, deaf or both, and addressed in the tone of voice usually reserved for small, clever children and household pets. It is considerably worse if you are small, like me. It pisses me off mightily to be addressed by total strangers – often young enough to be my grandkids – as “dear”, “darling”, “sweetheart” or the like.

    The media don’t help. So often news items relating to the 50+ age range are illustrated with images of very old, very ill or disabled, and quite often bedridden, people, thereby perpetuating the idea that older age is somehow pathetic.

    I accept that many older people ARE in poor health, physically and mentally, but they also deserve to be respected rather than patronised. On a Beeb radio programme a few years ago, there was an interview with the former principal of a Cambridge college, then living in a retirement home and at 90+, physically frail but clearly firing on all cylinders mentally. I nearly hurled the radio across the room when at the end of the interview the carer accompanying her threw in her two penn’orth with the remark: “Oh, she’s such a clever girl, aren’t you, darling?” See what I mean about patronisation?

    I also accept that I might not be capable of continuing with my intellectually demanding job or studying at post-grad level for ever – but it won’t be for want of trying. In my business – translation – people go on into their 80s and 90s and I have to say I didn’t really hit my stride until 60. But I don’t accept that I have to be regarded as a poor old soul.

    Of course, all of this is yet another reason to persevere with the Fast Diet, with its promise of possible longevity and better physical health into older age. In the short term, could being less cuddly make me less of a target for the patronisers?

    I’d be so interested to hear what others have found. Do men get the same treatment? Or is it something only women have to put up with?

    @hermajtomomi

    It has everything to do with physical strength and confidence. If a person projects that others know it and don’t behave condescendingly.

    The antidote: get physically stronger and stay mentally sharp.

    Dear.

    Nice one Rocky! Hit the nail on the head. Only thing is, there will come a time when our bodies conspire against us, no matter how fit and active we are, and because effort has to be made to get to know our mental capacity, we will be patronised into old age. Educating the young is the answer. Treat us as a fellow human being deserving of your respect, not your intolerance.

    rocky, I am still mentally sharp, pretty fit physically and don’t look too bad either. I can be verbally sharp, too, I don’t let ’em get away with it. When incidents of this kind have occurred in shops, I have complained – very politely – to HR and have had positive reactions. In one store where patronisation used to be rife – our local Boots the Chemist – there has been noticeable change. I also got results after making M&S aware of the problem.

    I don’t altogether agree that projecting confidence necessarily cuts it. I’m not exactly meek and mild and have a healthy level of self-esteem. Doesn’t stop the patronisation, though.

    I so agree about educating the young, toms mantis. Some older people ghettoise themselves and only associate with their own age group. Apart from two school friends the same age as me, both now living in the USA, all my friends are 10-15 years younger than me, one or two as many as 25-30 years my juniors. They in turn have kids aged between 24 and 4, who know me not as a feeble, dim-witted old lady but one who is still in there pitching. My 14-year-old great-nephew (so I’m told) refers to me as the cool auntie who’s gone back to uni, while my friend’s daughter – my god-daughter – reckons I’m the one who enabled her to get a good degree. Having been a rubbish godmother for most of her life, I was able to come good when she went to uni and help and advise her on her various assignments, at the same time forming a very nice inter-generational friendship. It also took me well out of my comfort zone which impacted both on my work and my studies in a very positive way.

    @ toms mantis
    “Educating the young is the answer. ”

    Growing a foot taller and looking commandeering would be a lot easier.

    Until then, smile and fast.

    Grow a foot taller? Would that I could, rocky. Looking commandeering maybe, but at 5ft 1in I’d be staring straight at some guy’s breast pocket – unless he was one of Snow White’s small friends.

    Hermaj, I agree re ghettoising. I couldn’t imagine spending my time solely with people my own age. I draw and paint and do various exercise classes, both of which bring me into the company of all age groups. It gives you a broader outlook on life. Having said that, my last job was full of young people whose lives consisted of get me out of the X factor, vampires and other such stuff. Ugh!

    I confess, toms, that stuff like the X Factor etc turns me into a harrumphing old bat. I can’t believe that my 14-year-old great-nephew still prefers to read a book or play his guitar than watch telly and he’s been brought up with the principle that computer games are a reward and not a substitute for getting his homework done. And he’s not a woose either. Very good at sport.However, I have no illusions. No doubt at some point very soon he’ll become a lot less virtuous and more obnoxious, albeit for no more than a couple of years..

    I also did a job that was full of young people – teaching in a comprehensive equidistant between Spurs and Arsenal where I attempted with limited success to teach French and Spanish to off-duty football hooligans. Some of the kids were lovely, others were naughty but nice, but there was a hard core of borderline psychopaths. Not an easy task being small (the little sods called me the Smurf!) although a little less cuddly than now, having a foreign name (my first husband was half Spanish), and having the nerve to expect them to learn effing French as it was popularly known – hooligans also tend to be xenophobes. Can you wonder that I turned to my present job where I work entirely alone, although with plenty of contact via phone and email with some superb colleagues.

    Poor you! Sounds dreadful, not a job I would have liked, although went to college with the intention of teaching. As a mature student, (26), with 2 small kids of my own, I was swiftly put off by the behaviour of the 16 year old re-sitters in the O level class. Am fighting a cold at the moment and up to now have not organised my fasting food for tomorrow. (Am the type who needs to be organised for this sort of thing)! Enjoy fasting, whenever your days are.

    To be honest I’ve been patronised all my life, whether slim or not. I particularly dislike being called by my forename by people who have not been given permission (like health professionals).

    I’m female and small, which seems to be enough reason to treat me like a fluffy toy. At one point I used to work with young offenders, and they treated me with more respect than many of their less problematic peers, and were very protective, which I always rather liked!

    @ruthi
    “I’m female and small, which seems to be enough reason to treat me like a fluffy toy. ”

    Gender, size, and looks are perceptions that command a brief and short attention span. Then, intellugence matters.

    We may not be able to adjust our looks, besides dress and hygiene, quickly. However, our thinking and communications followed by actions speak louder.

    Others will always attempt to bully us, and we can choose how to respond. Respond as an adult.

    Oh yes, I also know the art of bullying first hand, and I slip into bullying other bullies occasionally. I have to consciously remind myself to be more of an adult.

    Actually it doesn’t particularly bother me nowadays. They soon realise that I can out think them most of the time (a truly clever man is the sexiest thing!) and I don’t need to bully to outsmart them.

    The majority of men go very quickly from patronising to intimidated. The ones I like are the ones who don’t need to puff themselves up by treating others(male or female) with condescension.

    Dating was a bit of a trial. The majority of men don’t feel comfortable with an intelligent woman. But then I don’t feel comfortable with dimwits – not in romantic situations anyway!

    Thanks for your sympathy, toms. To be fair before I eventually turned to freelance translation I taught for 2 1/2 years at a prestigious private sector girls’ school. While being a bit of a lefty I felt slightly guilty but there I really was able to teach rather than being a policeman. I thought I’d died and gone to heaven, although I do know other members of staff were played up by some of the naughtier ones. I liked the kids and the kids seemed to like me, as did most of the staff including the head, which wasn’t the case at the comp where the (male) head was constantly on my case. I could have stayed and probably done well, but the urge to become a translator was too strong.

    Ruthi, I know what you mean. To be honest I prefer to be called by my forename than darling, sweetheart, poppet etc. Also until I remarried I had a surname that for some reason people couldn’t pronounce, so the first name was a better option.
    Isn’t it strange that you got more respect from young offenders than from those who kept closer to the straight and narrow? There will always be what used to be called Male Chauvinist Pigs who treat women as bits of fluff. However, when it comes to patronisation, I find that women are far worse offenders.

    Just caught your last post, Ruthi. Some 18th-century writer, whose name escapes me if I ever knew it in the first place, once said “Be good, sweet maid, and let who would be clever”. Many men are scared by women with something between their ears. Even my own dear hubby – a highly intelligent chap whose interests and strengths are very different to mine – was and continues to be uneasy at me doing a Master’s and actually getting very good marks. I have sometimes wondered if he would be happier with a dimwit, but I think he is actually quietly proud of me, but being typically British would never admit it.

    Oh yes, good old fashioned chauvinism, alive and well and in a living room near you! When my husband gets together with his old friends, it’s like going back to the 70’s. All my hard work goes out the window! Makes my blood boil so much I usually have to go out of the room. Ibsen’s Dolls House anyone? As with all elements of civilisation it doesn’t take much to revert to type.

    And this is why I’m a lesbian.

    No, just kidding. I myself was a bit surprised at the things you all say you’re going through, but I’ll take that as a good sign. I’m 22 and I have a lot of respect for older people. Being condescending to someone with 40-60 years more life experience under their belt? Yeah sure, good plan.

    I’m one of those people who try to live by the idea that everyone has to earn respect, and not just get it on basis of their job, age or whatever – but that doesn’t mean they should be disrespected either.

    Nika, I think it’s fair to say that teens and early-20s like you are far less guilty of this form of patronisation. The worst offenders seem to be people of 30 upwards and sadly women are far worse than men.

    I confess I occasionally did it myself when I was much younger. Such as trying to be all sweetness and light and talking down to my first mother-in-law who was not only considerably older than most of my friends’ in-laws but also disabled and in a wheelchair. My behaviour back then still makes me cringe.

    As for male chauvinism, my beautiful 5ft 9in niece, a scientist who, as I see from Google, is well-known and respected in her field, has experience of going to meetings where male colleagues tend to stare at her boobs rather than looking her in the face and listening to what she is saying. She also tells me that the organisation for which she works makes special efforts to adapt work stations to accommodate tall people. Shorter colleagues are left to fend for themselves and simply told to sit on a pile of cushions. Discrimination or what?

    Finally, the college of London Uni where I’m doing an MA specialises in part-time and evening degree courses and has a demographic extending from school-leavers to people in their 80s and 90s. Not once have I ever been patronised by academics, administrators or fellow students. No quarter is asked or given on grounds of age, although help and support is offered to anyone in need, regardless of DoB. It is assumed that if you are there it is because you can walk the walk and talk the talk. If this organisation can do it, why can’t others?

    Soooooo funny Nika! Agree, respect has to be earned. I know some people older than me,(yes, there are some), who are obnoxious, demanding and think the world should bend over backwards for them. They wind me up as much as 70’s throwbacks. Doesn’t take much these days, alas.

    Hermaj, enlightenment and will. Hope all that equality isn’t just rules and regulations and actually penetrates the epidermis. I spent 4 years working in a mainly male environment where equality was stipulated, but the private views of male colleagues were anything but. The handful of women who worked there were judged on their looks not their abilities, and called love etc., ah yes, I remember it well!

    toms, even if the behaviour at the uni is governed by rules and regulations it does come across as absolutely geniune, especially among the academics.

    The only time I detected even a whiff of what may well have been ageism was when the college registry managed to lose my first degree certificate and my PGCE (post-grad certificate in education – for those posters outside the UK the formal teaching qualification). They tried to argue that I had probably forgotten to send them in in the first place (being a daft old biddy), quite overlooking the fact that if I hadn’t produced them I wouldn’t have been allowed to enroll. Fortunately my own departmental administrators had a more positive approach – they lost it, they pay for it – and indeed the offenders did cough up for duplicates.

    I don’t have a lot of working experiences like this… maybe it helps that I’m an A cup?

    Anyway, I do a major in Game Design & Development and am one of a total of three girls in a class of 20 something. Now most people in my class are cool people, especially the friends I’ve made. They’re funny and respect me, and I was even voted Project Manager for our large 12-man project we did at the end of last year. Well, voted, it was more that when I asked who was going to be PM they all looked at me funny and went “Wait that’s you right?”

    I’m not sure if that’s my environment and that what you said, hermajtomomi (really what can I call you besides that? It’s a bit of a hassle) is true about younger people being less judgemental that way. Or it’s because I can smash their teeth in with a single punch. Could be that. More likely though it’s because I’m gay (that wasn’t a joke) and I’m more one of the guys, drinking beer and playing videogames.

    This behaviour you all describe could very well be a remnant of an older way of thinking. I mean equality is a rather new thing, and has still not been achieved fully yet (men in the same function earning more money than women working the exact same job). But my generation has seen so many more working moms than the previous ones. For some reason I can’t get the image of a bunch of men sitting in leather chairs smoking cigars out of my head…

    Nika, it is absolutely a remnant of a previous age. The trouble is as with all these things a lot of men will never allow the chauvinist to die out, and still pass this attitude on to their children, both male, to feel superior and female, to feel inferior. It’s very difficult to buck the trend, and takes several generations to make an inroad. I parked my car up and walked around the corner to work when a man, who was walking along with his granddaughter said to her, “watch out, it’s a woman driver”. I had to point out to him that he was already telling her she was a second class citizen by saying this. Anyway, don’t know why you said you were only kidding in your previous post, but it did make me laugh!

    @toms mantis
    ” takes several generations to make an inroad. ”

    Agreed.

    We live in a competitive world of diminishing resources. The stronger and more fortunate will get to keep those resources until new resources are discovered.

    Competition is how we have thrived as a species.

    Once we uncover a path to an abundance mentality for everyone, then we will have enhanced mutual respect. And peaceful co-existence.

    In our lifetimes, we will struggle with inequalities and unacceptance but we are headed in the right direction with untold discoveries yet to be made. If you’ve noticed in the past, petty grievances are put aside for bigger causes.

    We are heading quickly to a bigger cause.

    It’s called Earth survival.

    toms, you make an interesting point, backed up by rocky, that it takes several generations to make an inroad. Although you are referring to male chauvinist piggery, I think the same could be said of patronisation of older people.

    As I said in an earlier post, very young people like Nika aren’t the problem, probably because they have grannies and grandads of their own who are still youthful, in good health, fully-functioning and in many cases still working or making other valuable contributions to society. The patronisers, who tend to be somewhat older, late 30s upwards, may well have had grandparents who considered themselves to be old at 60, ghettoising themselves and refusing to do any more with their lives than watch afternoon telly, play bingo and moan about younger people.

    Of course, we also have great female role models for how to be older – the Nobel Prizewinning novelist Doris Lessing who died aged 94 only a few weeks ago, the wonderful P.D. James also in her 90s, a supremely talented writer and a very wise women (I find myself wishing she was my mum!). Did anybody hear her take the Director General of the BBC to the cleaners when she guest-edited the Today programme a couple of years back? Then there was a fabulous woman named Hetty Bauer who died very recently aged 107 and was politically active and highly articulate to the end – she wowed this year’s Labour Party conference. And what about the great Judi Dench, not far off 80 and still one of our finest actresses – if not THE finest British one – and very beautiful with it? There are some very impressive older men around too – let’s hear it for David Attenborough. No doubt other posters can name many more.

    As rising generations get used to seeing increasing numbers of older achievers like these, maybe the patronisation will eventually stop, but it may take so long that we may not be around to see it.

    Think you’re right Hermaj. We will be long gone by the time things change in any meaningful way regarding both patronisation and chauvinism. They are both part of the same attitude. All we can do is try to educate those nearest to us, who we may have influence over. And Rocky, yes we have put our grievances aside for bigger causes in the past. Hopefully in the future we may even be able to keep it up after the crisis, or whatever the cause was, is passed. Meanwhile, with our new fasting lifestyle, we will trim and have one less thing for someone to be prejudiced about.

    “As I said in an earlier post, very young people like Nika aren’t the problem, probably because they have grannies and grandads of their own who are still youthful, in good health, fully-functioning and in many cases still working or making other valuable contributions to society.”

    I no longer have any grandparents. I don’t remember one of my grandfathers, he died when I was two. I do remember his wife in rather good health, when I was really little, but she soon started to deteriorate and at a point only called me Annemarie (which is an older niece of mine) and had no idea who Annika was. This was quite hurtful. She ended up having a stroke and was only found a day later because she didn’t wear her alarm button around her neck. She was then kept alive for a while until they decided to pull the plug.

    My other set of grandparents were in rather OK health for a long time, but my grandfather had been a reverend (not sure if that’s spelled right, anyway he was the ‘leader’ of the local church) and had lived through the war. This meant a family member had to visit the house very regularly to make sure he wasn’t eating meat with mold on it or taking medicine / pills that were past expiration date. we once caught him dumpster diving the trashcan when we had thrown out some ham which was more green-white than pink. He kept saying “I’ll scrape it off I’ll scrape it off” and ended up throwing a huge fit. I remember being quite scared of him when I was little.
    My grandmother was a lovely woman who I regret not calling more often. She was quite lucid until the end, when she died in her own bed after us visiting her a last time.

    Almost all old people in my life (anything older than my parents so to say) have been quite fragile and needed looking after for most of the time I can remember. When I was very young this may have been different, but I don’t remember those times vividly.

    I’ve also at times had to bring my mother to bed or at least cover her with a blanket and lock up the house when she had too much to drink and didn’t wake up no matter what I tried. This started when I was 11 and I’ve developed a sixth sense for wine bottles and -glasses and certain behaviours my mother would display when she had too much to drink over the following years.

    I’m not even 100% sure why I’m telling you all of this, but I felt a bit stung by the assumption you made with your statement and felt the need to set it straight. I like to think I’m a decent person and in my experience I’m usually the one getting up for elderly people on the bus (but only when they look like they really need it, not to patronize). I love having discussions and chats with people with more life experience than me, but not because all the “older” people in my life are so awesome and lively. I just can’t imagine having lived 60+ years and have some dwerp who’s lived less than half of that tell you what to do or think they’re smarter or superior than you. That’s why I am decent.

    There, a nice big long post. 😀

    Hi Nika,

    This is a interesting thread and I am interested in what you have to say about just being a decent person and acting the way you do because you are that way and not because you are a certain age or have particular experiences.

    In my view some of us are a little too sensitive about what others say or how they behave towards us. If we are comfortable within ourselves it really doesn’t matter. I am sure that there are a lot of Gen Ys and Xs who are patronised by the older age groups. Those of us who have lived through the 60s and 70s as young adults have carved a path which is still in the process of being completed and I agree with rockyromero that ‘”Once we uncover a path to an abundance mentality for everyone, then we will have enhanced mutual respect. And peaceful co-existence” So let’s blow away patronisation of all.

    Sorry Nika, I had no wish to needle you. It is an even higher tribute to you that you still do not patronise older people, despite the fact that your own life experience has been of elders genuinely in need of help and support. That will tech ME not to make sweeping generalisations!

    My own objections are about people, of whatever age and experience, who also make sweeping generalisations and assume that anyone who has passed a certain landmark age – sometimes as young as 50 – must by definition be deaf, daft and helpless and need to be spoken to like small children or domestic pets.

    I am pretty comfortable with myself, I have good health, a job I love, a man I love, good friends both new and of very long standing, a brain that is still capable of studying at post-grad level with gratifying success and the ability to interact happily with people across the entire age range. However, it can be very deflating when some arse elbows you in the face and announces for all to hear:”I didn’t see you down there, darling!” Which is why I asked the initial question whether patronisation is worse when you are small and cuddly.

    I too lived through the 60s and 70s, lizy, and many of the things I learnt then have stuck with me and continue to enhance my life and shape my way of seeing things. And one of those things was to cut through age barriers – shared attitudes and interests are and were more important than miles on the clock. Having grown up with sex ‘n’drugs ‘n’ rock ‘n’ roll, and been through the whole hippy experience, I find it difficult to morph into the sweet little old lady that some of the less enlightened would have me be.

    I’ve taken the liberty of cutting and pasting this post by rocky romero on the longevity thread including this very interesting lecture by jared diamond on the way different cultures treat their elders. I thought it might also be appreciated by posters on this thread

    The state of longevity today is expressed clearly in this video:

    http://www.ted.com/talks/jared_diamond_how_societies_can_grow_old_better.html

    Providing ongoing value is still important as we age.

    It’s a testimony to staying healthier and fasting so that we increase our value in a complex society.

    Helping others.

    No worries, all good ^^

    @hermajtomomi
    ” that we increase our value in a complex society.”

    Living in the USA, I reflected on what the video mentioned on the work ethic held as valuable. Once those that stop contributing by not working are deemed less valuable.

    I’ve never believed in retiring and always strived to position myself in a way that I can continually grow and create value. It’s satisfying. It’s also contrary to the retirement mentality.

    Even if some parts of my body start to fail, the mind can continue for a longer period and contribute more to others.

    It’s a gift, a privilege and a blessing to have abundance, as most of us do. It’s also a responsibility that we have to solve global problems and be other conscious.

    That’s our destiny.

    rocky, I think we are singing from the same hymn sheet (do you use that expression in the USA?). Only a catastrophic decline in health will force me to retire. Being self-employed, only I can fire myself on grounds of age. However, if clients start voting with their feet I shall have to review the situtation. No sign of that yet.

    I’ve also been able to help members of the rising generation in ways that have been rewarding for everyone involved – e.g. tutoring and advising my god-daughter enabling her to achieve a very good degree. As well as being fun for both of us, it took me out of my own comfort zone which can only be a good thing. I’ve also taken to cooking alongside my 14-year-old great nephew who is already a very competent cook. According to his mum, he likes working with me, because I don’t boss him around, I don’t patronise him, I just guide him. We’ve already successfully catered two family dinners – once creating a tapas menu, once a multi-dish Indian meal. More are planned.

    Hopefully, other occasions will arise where I can use what few skills I have to help anyone of any age in ways that enhance their, and my, life.

    @hermajtomomi
    ” we are singing from the same hymn sheet ”

    Well, my wife and I did go caroling and singing on a frosty, chocolate enhanced Friday night.

    The group singing, laughter, and season pulled us all together.

    I’ve just read through all the posts on this thread and – oh, how I agreed with you.

    @hermajtomomi ‘ Having grown up with sex ‘n’drugs ‘n’ rock ‘n’ roll, and been through the whole hippy experience, I find it difficult to morph into the sweet little old lady that some of the less enlightened would have me be.’ yes, indeed!!!

    I cannot see myself as a ‘sweet little old lady’ either. I don’t think I’ve ever been ‘sweet’; ‘little’ – oh yeah! 5ft 1 inch and just the right height for taller persons to look straight down my, fairly well endowed, cleavage instead of talking to my face; ‘old’ – well the calendar says I’m heading that way but I certainly don’t see myself as old and ‘lady’ – I’ll leave that to others to comment on.

    I have officially retired I suppose but I did so in order to pursue something I wanted to do – namely follow up my life long interest in trees via voluntary work with the Woodland Trust and have my own little jewellery making business. Both of which I am now happily doing.

    And I’m growing less ‘cuddly’ by the day too. 😀

    sylvestra, a kindred spirit if ever there was one! Same height, too.

    Do you remember the Monty Python sketch “Hell’s Grannies” when all the guys dressed up in stereotypical granny outfits, little black dresses with lace collars and neat little straw hats perched on their pensioner perms, whizzing round on motorbikes and beating hell out of a bunch of hard cases in leather jackets with their handbags? Although I was well short of granny age when I first saw it I found it very persuasive. Should you, I and all the other kindred spirits form an Association of Hell’s Grannies? We could all wear t-shirts with such slogans as “Patronise me at your peril! or “Diss me if you dare!”.

    I’m currently in deep disgrace with my early 40-something step-daughter because I objected to her referring on Facebook to a group of 50-pluses (yes FIFTY-pluses!] she led on a walk along a nature trail as “old age pensioners” who were “so sweet”. You can imagine my reaction was not at all old ladylike. She still insisted that “old people are sweet”. This one certainly ain’t.

    Hermaj, hope you gave her the length of your tongue! What a fab idea for hell’s grannies. May I join? In my misspent youth, hung around with a group of bikers who haunted a cafe in Liverpool. Haven’t revisited those memories for, ooh, years! Very exhilarating it was too.

    Sylvestra, hi. Wow, I too make jewellery for sale, and am about to indulge my lifelong love of art, the practice of which I have been forced to neglect for valid reasons over the last ten years. On my fasting days getting stuck into designing and making my jewellery has helped me a lot. Good luck.

    ‘course you can join, toms. I do envy you and sylvestra your ability to make jewellery. I’m very good at wearing it, especially earrings, which, along with books, are the only things I’m acquisitive about. I’m particularly fond of silver and amber but am willing to try anything quirky. Gold doesn’t do it for me, though. Even our wedding rings are silver.

    As for giving the young lady the length of my tongue, as I responded on FB I had to moderate my language. Anyway I won. She took the post down in a huff!

    BTW I made my first-ever visit to Liverpool in summer this year when I and a friend went up for the day to see the Chagall exhibition at Tate Liverpool. Great city and a great day out – apart from a Liverpudlian seagull with loose bowels bombed my poor buddy who happened to be wearing white trousers! I’m hoping to make a return (hopefully seagull-free) visit sometime next year.

    Hi Everyone,

    I have hit the “old” bit too and I have found that many younger people are nicer to me now than when I was in my late 40’s and 50’s.

    I have decided to take full advantage of being older. Most of the young people I know don’t patronize me but I find it is a lot easier to get them to do the heavy lifting. If they ask if I want help getting my purchases to the car, I say YES. When I ask people to get things from the top shelf in a store (5′ tall), they say yes.

    Old and crafty beats young and brash every time.

    Quick

    @quick

    “Old and crafty beats young and brash every time.”

    I think my wife has pulled that on me.

    @quick ….you are absolutely right.

    ‘Old age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill’

    Many years ago when we lived on RAF bases, No 8 Sqr RAF flew Shackletons (the ‘Grand Old Grey Ladies’- 4 contra rotating double bladed Rolls Royce Merlin engines) and this was one of their mottoes. Another one was ‘Four screws are better than 2 blow jobs’!!!!

    Ha ha hermaj – I love the idea of ‘Hells Grannies’. Makes me wish I still had the Norton Commando 750cc that I had in my 20s. A new set of leathers and we’d be off. I think I still have an 8 Sqr sweat shirt with the ‘old age’ motto on it!!!

    yes Quick – I have to ask for help for that darn top shelf too !

    toms ….do you sell your jewellery online?

    Sylvestra, just read your background. Don’t sell my jewellery online, thinking of doing it next year, see how it goes. Have some In a craft shop and a friend takes some to her colleagues. It was always been a hobby, and now I no longer work will only ever be a hobby job, to bring cash in so I can carry on making it. Will check out your website soon. Fast well.

    Quick, there can be times when it is practical to appear helpless as you state. Think it’s really hard though to stop striving to do everything yourself when that’s what you’ve been used to doing. Don’t you think it’s tough to admit you can no longer do things you once took for granted?

    Hermaj, dusting my leathers off as soon as poss. (Only kidding, we didn’t use them when I was 17). I am honoured to be a hell’s granny! Sorry your first visit to my home town was spoiled by a thoughtless seagull. They have no sense of style, do they. Don’t live there now. Hope your next visit is cleaner!

    Hi Toms,

    It isn’t that I can’t carry out my own groceries. Who do you think carries them into the house? Actually the grocery stores have always asked. Now, I just let them. I’ve never been rich enough to have servants, this is probably the closest I will ever come. And I’ve never been able to reach some top shelves. I’m sure it will be harder once I really can’t do for myself.

    I do remember once when I was patronized, I was deciding about the best way to refinance my house. I happened to be in my Bank and thought that they would have to software to easily answer my questions even thought I wasn’t doing the re-finance through them.

    I asked one of the young men my question but he quit listening to me right after I said “refinance”. He started getting info from his computer and went into his sales talk. After about 10 mins. of talking at me, he finally looked up and said “I don’t understand what you want”. I said to him “that’s because you did NOT listen to my question in the first place.”

    Getting old is certainly a pain in many ways but much better than the alternative. Besides, getting healthy and losing weight almost always makes you look younger.

    Quick

    @quick
    ” Who do you think carries them into the house? ”

    Fast forward future years and we will have robots and drones to deliver what we want where we want it.

    I’ve already ordered my first drone and I’ll see if I can attach a carrier to it.

    The future is coming very quickly with technology.

    I’ve just been patronized a bit as well, but not because of age… we have this watercooler in the office (can’t drink tapwater here) and the thing was empty. So I took off the old one and went to grab a full cannister thing, but there was immediately a male colleague insisting he did it. I said ‘no worries I can do it’ but he just went ‘no no no no I’ll do it’.

    One of the first times I’ve been so blatantly feminized 😛

    Quick, did say appear helpless, did not mean any offence if it was taken! There’s certainly stuff I can no longer do, used to be really strong but now can’t lift heavy things, then I’m glad of help! Got a rotovator for my allotment which I cannot use, it’s just too heavy.

    Rocky, what’s this about a drone?

    Sylvestra, had a look at your jewellery. How lovely! Do you do well with it? The market appears to be saturated now.

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