Welcome to The Fast Diet › The official Fast forums › Body › Medical conditions and fasting › High Blood Pressure Caused by 5:2?
This topic contains 118 replies, has 60 voices, and was last updated by Merryme 1 year, 7 months ago.
Viewing 19 posts - 101 through 119 (of 119 total)
10 Jan 17
I see this is an old lot of posts but thought I would comment. Been on FD for two months…6 kgs lost. Happily my blood pressure has dropped approx 30 points from high to normal range. In have done nothing else except 5.2. I am hoping my doctor will,be surprised and take me off mess. Fingers crossed.
Weight loss usually lowers blood pressure, but it isn’t the only thing that can have an effect. I found weight loss had a dramatic effect on my elevated blood pressure. However quite a few things can make it increase:
– If I regain more than about 4kg my blood pressure goes up.
– If I stop exercising for more than a week my blood pressure goes up.
– If I eat unhealthy foods for more than 1 day (eg high fat, high salt etc)my BP goes up.
– If I take anti-inflammatory medication (mobic) my blood pressure elevates. If I’m on these for more than 10 days I actually have to go back on blood pressure meds and even after I stop the anti-inflammatories it can take several weeks for my blood pressure to lower enough to stop the blood pressure meds. I doubt this is the only medication that has elevated blood pressure as a side effect.
One thing I have found with blood pressure, is that you can’t rely on a single reading. I can have my blood pressure tested 3 times over a 30min period and get 3 completely different readings. If high blood pressure is an issue for you, it’s best to establish a pattern by regular. My local pharmacist has a blood pressure tester than anyone can go in and use. When I was having issues I went in weekly and kept a record of my results so I could give my GP a good indication of how my blood pressure was behaving outside of the doctor’s surgery.
If anyone is noticing a change in blood pressure when they end a fast period then I’d recommend testing it on NFDs as well so that you can see what the pattern is. Take it over several weeks. You may find that FD and NFD have an effect on your BP readings, but over time the trend may still be downwards.
Watched the latest episode of “trust me I’m a doctor” last night. One of the trials was various HIIT programs for 4 weeks vs regular cardio training (30 min cardio per session). In particular – gripping a strength meter at 30% of max for 2 minutes 3 times (6 minutes total) with 2 minute breaks between grips was one of the methods (respected 3 times per week). Surprising to Moseley was that this method significantly lowered blood pressure – 10 points IIRC. None of the other methods lowered BP.
Sponsor of that method postulates that stressing your muscles in that way exercises blood vessels to increase blood flow to extremities. This.results in lower BP. Might be worth a look.
14 Jan 17
I’ve tracked down that episode:
Michael Mosley: Trust Me, I’m A Doctor
Season 5 Episode 1
Not sure how long that link will work, but create an account (for free) and you can watch it now. Incredible results for lowering blood pressure.
24 Feb 17
Male / 31 years old
blood pressure normal and healthy young man at the age 27 and no family history at all
working out and dieting including fasting and calorie count for 2 years
age 29 i feel pain in my right ear and the doctor says nothing wrong with your ear .. i decided on my own to test my BP in the same hospital and it was 170/80 wooooohooooo
tried every diet you can think of to help lower BP .. keto / low carb / fasting / ..etc
now its 150/90 and i refuse to take medication
nothing helped me
YES high blood pressure is linked to dieting and fasting ( source : my experince )
guys dont count your calories and dont eat less
you can create weight loss by just adding cardio
maybe its not a joke that Michael phelps eats 12,000 calories a day and stay ripped
28 Feb 17
High blood pressure can be an indicator of an underlying condition. Eg if the blood supply to the kidneys is restricted, the body will (helpfully) increase blood pressure to compensate. Similarly high blood lipids can be an indication of say underlying dietary issues.
My concern with statins for lipid control and similar artificial means of controlling blood pressure is that whilst they change the markers, the measures, they are not getting to the underlying cause. Eg meds will reduce the blood pressure in the above example without addressing the fundamental cause – which was a reduced kidney blood supply.
When I told my doctor my blood pressure and lipids had dropped when my weight dropped with fasting, he said that was entirely what he expected would happen. So he supported coming off the statins and blood pressure meds in response to the fasting-induced weight drop, lipid drop and blood pressure drop.
Just as fasting can address some types of underlying causes of high blood pressure, so can aerobic and anaerobic exercise. These measures are complementary, not alternatives. And they lack the negative side effects of drug-based treatments.
Despite my reservations about blood pressure meds not addressing underlying causes, if I had seriously high blood pressure (eg 160/100) I would most certainly take them pronto. Similarly for statins. Severe symptoms needs to be addressed even if you can’t currently get to the cause.
17 Mar 17
First of all, you need to consult with a professional. High blood pressure can be dangerous and can cause a serious diseases. Also you can order special medical equipment to control your blood pressure regularly. Recently, I bought one for myself at http://bimedis.com/ to check my blood pressure after trainings.
11 Jul 17
I’m wondering if 5:2 raises some peoples bp because their body is unfamiliar with ketosis and so every time they deplete their glycogen stores their body gets stressed instead of switching to using ketones as fuel. Maybe if they did a minimum of a 5 day complete water fast before going 5:2 this might help their body adapt to using ketones so that when they then do 5:2 their body knows that it must switch to using ketones and not get stressed? This video kind of explains what I mean a bit better
@skarz. So what was your blood pressure before you started dieting/fasting? If it was normal then just stop fasting/dieting and eat the same as when you were 27. See if it returns to normal 120/80 or better. Perhaps you have an underlying medical condition which is unrelated to your dieting/fasting. Otherwise what you are saying doesn’t really make a lot of sense. Im assuming you no longer diet/fast and BP is now 150/80? So why hasn’t it gone down? Id be looking at other causes. See a doctor.
4 Nov 17
JeiCR, if you don’t me asking – how much sugar were you consuming on your non-fast days?
I was on 2 blood pressure meds when I started 5:2 in early May. Had to gradually wean off of them as I lost weight because my BP got very low and I felt lightheaded. I’m no longer on BP meds and BP is normal to borderline high, but I do keep an eye on it. I lost 23+ pounds.
27 Jul 18
I’m a little late to this, but wanted to add my experience.
I’ve been doing intermittent fasting, the 16:8 method, for about 2 months. A couple of weeks ago, I tried stretching my fasting hours. I followed a method someone on YouTube recommended, adding an hour of fasting each day until I was down to a 4 hour eating window. This was a mistake. I ended up sick, nauseous, and miserable, with a heavily beating heart and a pounding head.
I went to the doctor yesterday while fasting. My blood pressure, which has always been normal, was 190/100! That was a shock. But I realized that the headache and pounding heart, nausea and general misery is what it feels like with elevated B/P. And it’s been happening to me with fasting or even restricted calories for years now.
I’m 43-years-old, active, but obese with Type II diabetes. I’m female. Fasting causes blood sugar spikes for me, too. My A1C went from 6.1 to 6.8 over the last 2 months. This is not helping me. IF hasn’t helped with weight loss, either, but then nothing works anymore, and this was at least helping me maintain my weight.
I’ve done 24 hour fasts in the past, but now I’m so sick by 18 hours in, I have to quit.
My blood pressure throughout my fasting day yesterday was 140/80, 190/100, 185/103, and 168/95. After eating something and a good night’s sleep, it was 138/80 this morning. Better, but still high.
I have normal cholesterol levels, and my blood work is pretty normal, with slightly low calcium and protein. I’d love to know more about what is causing this. I’m of the opinion that the general consensus about obesity and diabetes may be wrong or missing something. This is from my own experiences and spending the last 15 years of my life exercising regularly, counting calories, then carbs, then doing keto, Medifast, etc, and either getting sick while on the diet (non-stop headaches, pounding and fluttering heart, fatigue, weakness, and mental confusion) or never losing more than a couple pounds before plateauing sometimes for years on end. I was excited about IF and was planning to try 5:2, but I now realize that people with certain conditions may be putting themselves at risk by doing it.
The only clinical study I’m aware of on time restricted eating was on a one meal a day (Warrior Diet-23/1) pattern. It found every participant experienced an increase in blood pressure. It also concluded that “The present findings suggest that, without a reduction in calorie intake, a reduced-meal-frequency diet does not afford major health benefits in humans.” https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/85/4/981/4648934
Subsequent evidence now indicates that people following 16/8 or more (worse) on a consistent basis are experiencing much higher levels of gall stones and gall bladder surgery, and if the 16/8 incorporates the skipping of breakfast, higher overall death rates and increased cardiovascular disease are experienced. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=valter+longo+videos&qpvt=valter+longo+videos&view=detail&mid=6D8F7CB8DEE99AFB8F436D8F7CB8DEE99AFB8F43&&FORM=VRDGAR (minutes 29 to 32).
This information is for people doing 16/8 and its variations consistently. With 5/2, you are only doing it twice a week, and can pattern your eating throughout the day if you want to. All studies confirm that if you lose weight, your blood pressures will go down. Clinical studies also show that long term water fasting (measured in weeks) drastically reduces blood pressures even in those people whose high blood pressures cannot be brought down with medication. It is unclear to me how much of the reduction is caused by the weight loss associated with the fasting, and how much is caused by the fasting itself. And one of the most frequent side effects of short term water fasting (four days to a couple of weeks) is fainting caused by low blood pressures.
More research is needed on the 16/8 fad, but right now it seems consistently following 16/8 or more provides little or no benefit and carries more risk than people recognize.
As they say, whatever works for you.
Thanks for this reply. I’m one of the people who experienced elevated BP while fasting, and I’ve recently been trying the “Fast 5″ plan of time-restricted eating, which is essentially a daily 19 hour fast. Like most people, I’ve been skipping breakfast. BP has been erratic. I should also note that on 5:2 I hoarded my 600 calories until dinnertime. I only became aware of Longo’s cautions a few days ago.
However…”Consumption of 1 meal/d resulted in weight loss and a decrease in fat mass with little modification in calorie consumption. It remains unclear whether altered meal frequency would lead to changes in weight and body composition in obese subjects.” (AJCN study) The study says it’s unclear whether 1 meal/day leads to permanently reduced energy intake. But that does appear to be the key thing. Dr. Bert Herring’s “Fast 5” plan has been re-branded to “Appetite Correction,” in light of the intended result. But the research doesn’t appear to support it, at this point.
10 Aug 18
the best way is if you give in to a diet under the supervision of a doctor who will be able to actually control your reactions to changing nutrition
Just wanted to add my experience as 5:2 fasting did not raise my blood pressure. I started obese with BP in the 130/80s. Going vegetarian made no difference. Fasting made no difference at first, then going onto a plant-based diet had an immediate affect of reducing my BP below 120. I was also no longer obese so the weight loss probably helped too. So my suggestion is to keep trying 5 2 to get the weight down and try eat as close to a plant based diet as you can and it may work for you too.
11 Aug 18
Not normally reading on this thread, but stumbled on your comment on info given by Dr Longo re blood pressure, mortality, gall stones, gall surgery, increased cardiovascular disease and 16/8, no breakfast.I’ve watched the 29-32 mins of the video and his comment is very general.
It caught my attention because I’ve done 5:2 for a few months off 4 yrs now, only dinner on FDs, and for 3 yrs I’ve not eaten breakfast.
My challenge with his comment is there’s no information there about what people were eating the rest of the day on 16:8 and no breakfast. I’m not disputing he found what he found, but there’s some buts for me. Were they eating a high saturated fat diet, was it high protein/ high fat, was it low fat high carb, high fat/low carb? Were there any distinctions in the data, between varying rates in varying diets?
sim – do you know if there’s something I could look up where Dr Longo has given more data, or a paper etc?
In my situation, I have The Hunger Dragon Effect, I’m chronically ill, with Myalgic Encephalomyelitis, more sedentary. Two things happen with me if I went back to eating breakfast :
1. I would have to force myself to eat breakfast as I’m just not hungry before 10.30-11ish.
2. If I ate breakfast, the Hunger Dragon effect kicks in and I will inevitably end up, over time, having weight go back up.
I don’t feel I have a choice but to eat 5:2, and skip breakfast. I know I’m not typical. I have complex food challenges re intolerances, which comes into play also, and for several reasons I think my body chemistry is mire atypical than average.
Again, I’m just 1 person, but for me my way of eating has worked; I’ve had an angiogram and my arteries are “patent”; my blood pressure normalised during my weight loss; and my cardiologist says my heart is functioning better than it was.
12 Aug 18
Sorry, I missed your post and am late in responding.
Dr. Longo in at least one interview acknowledged your observations. To understand his comments, I believe you need to understand his research philosophy. He calls it the Five Pillars. I won’t try to explain it – you need to read his book or listen to a few of his interviews to get it – but in short he looks at microbiology, clinical studies, broad based studies, studies of long lived populations and something I still am trying to get my mind around, studies of complex systems. Only when he finds something that passes tests for all of these areas does he proclaim that it is a solid research result. And until something does pass these five tests, it seems he feels any ‘final result’ is suspect.
Looking at something like 16:8, he finds there is no research at the cellular level showing it accomplishes anything positive. The only current clinical study is on 23:1, and it concluded there were no positive benefits from following it and, although it was a small study, all participants experienced an increase in blood pressures. No long lived populations follow a 16:8 or more time restricted eating pattern – they all eat in 11 to 13 hour eating windows. 16:8 is a new fad, so there are no real large scale studies available, but the data coming out is that people consistently doing 16:8 types of eating patterns have twice the chance of getting gall stones and/or having to have their gall bladders removed.
The breakfast issue is an add on to the 16:8, as many that follow 16:8 do it by skipping breakfast. Large scale studies clearly show that people that consistently skip breakfast die younger than those that don’t. Whether that is a causation issue, or a coincidental issue is not clear. Also, he finds that no long lived populations routinely skip breakfast.
But it seems from his point of view, which includes first do no harm, hundreds of thousands if not millions of people are embarking on an eating program that has no known benefits and carries some pretty negative downside potential. He seems to feel that is not a prudent thing to do.
I’m just trying to be a reporter here. I have no skin in this game. But personally, I tend to agree with him. This is a recent and I believe the most complete interview of Longo I have seen. It is quite long, but has quite a bit of information in it. http://www.richroll.com/podcast/valter-longo-367/
No worries re timing, and thanks for your reply. It helps me to navigate through so much info out there, when I have little time to do it.
I’ve never read the 16:8 literature, or deliberately followed it, it was just what I ended up doing that fitted my personal situation. I vacillate between 16:8 hrs and 14:10 hrs depending on the day.
The 11-13 hr eating window in long lived populations is interesting. I’ll have to start doing more reading, watching etc.
Years ago, following my OH having cardiac issues at a young age, we discovered the Pritikin Programme, investigated it, consulted dietitians, and looked at the work being done at the Loma Linda University. For over a decade we used the Therapuetic Pritikin Programme – 3% fat, 10% mostly vegetable protein and the remainder complex carbohydrates, (as opposed to the Maintenance Pritikin Programme – which is 10% fat, 10% protein % 80% complex carbohydrates).
Nathan Pritikin was an extraordinary polymath who did metadata studies of the entire body of medical and epidemiological studies and literature of the 20th Century to that date. He discovered that the 4 longest living populations in the world , up to the beginning of the 80’s all had the same dietary composition – 10% fat, 10% mostly plant based proteins, and 80% complex carbohydrates. All 4 populations produced many healthy centenarians. From memory , 2 of these were the Japanese on a particular island, and Tarahumara Indians. These populations also had small amounts of ill heath, with no endemic or systemmic health problems. I’ll have to go back and look to see if there were references to timing of breakfast. No breakfast was certainly not encouraged.
Pritikin also discovered that under a certain blood cholesterol level, in non hypercholesterolaic people, blockages in the arteries begin to clear, I credit my years on the Pritikin Programme (which covers food, stress control and exercise) for my clean arteries which are born out by my angiogram. Cardiac issues are part of Myalgic Encephalomyelitis, and my angiogram was part of investigations because of my family’s history of artery disease, heart attacks/strokes. My OH surprises the Drs by his good health, is largely asymptomatic and still going strong 30+ years later, although as genetically hypercholesterolaemic, a drug regime has also been needed, as well as a healthy lifestyle.
However we always look to do the optimal to contue as healthily as we can.
One thing that intrigues me is the longest living populations I hear about now are not all the same ones that Pritikin discovered, and he considered the Mediterranean diet good by world standards, but as a whole, the Mediterranean diet population did not live as long as those with the 10:10:80 ratio.
Clearly I can’t put it off any longer and need to look into Dr Longo’s work. Thanks for outlining his process for me, and I have someone in mind who I can call on to help me understand the complex systems studies. Thanks for the link – OH and I will watch it.
Thanks again sim , for your informative reply and all you do to help so many here on the forum.
You take care too,
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