Hi Thin

Sorry you’re not feeling too good today. I really appreciate the support and encouragement you give to others. So I return it today. ??

I agree with your comments re 5:2 giving the feast and famine effect. Provided we stick to our TDEE and the quarter TDEE on fast days. In my case this means 1600 calories on feast days and under 400 on fast days. As you know if I’m creeping up in weight, i go under 300 calories on fast days. But never more than two fast days a week.

Cheers, Bay ?

Thanks all that have been helping today – I really appreciate it.

Thanks so much, Merry for all that you wrote – that is a big help.

I do exercise, sometimes to my detriment. I go for a 60-75min brisk walk most days, or cycling an hour on the bike if I need a change or it is raining. I try and have one day off a week to recover, but that doesn’t always happen. On the medication I am on now, my down times are not as often and nowhere near as severe – but I do have times where I can’t do anything for a few days.

What you said about ‘mini fasting’ the next day reminded me. When I started 5:2, I would continue my fasting until lunch the next day, except for treating myself to a cappucino (with proper milk) first thing on the morning after. So I would stop eating at 8:30pm Sunday night, and then fast until Tuesday lunch. Then I was fasting with 500 cals, whereas now I have got that down to 300cals. I am going to try that again – go back to 5:2, the mini fasting the day after, to extend the fasting. I like the sound of that.

So you do 16:8 every non FD? Do you have any cals on the mornings of your non FD on the 16:8?

Thanks for all the advice.

Hi SH,
goodness me, there must be at least 100 posts in the last couple of days.

I will be up half the night reading them – let alone making any comment or response.

I might just start by welcoming all the newbies like Merz; congrats to everyone still sticking with this WOL; and thank you all for your continued inspiration.

I have been hard at work writing etc but sticking with my 2 FD’s Monday and Wednesday and sometimes a part FD on Friday. I will report in tomorrow after 2nd FD.

So true Merry about not being able to change others opinions but we can change our own reaction to them. Good attitude, but some of us take a while to learn that.

Cinque, I’m going to try that liquorice tea as I love liquorice 🙂 darn, I just read that you shouldn’t have it if you have high blood pressure. That means me, I’m afraid.
Do you mind putting the link (together with your comments) for the tea up on the recipe site, or if you don’t mind I’ll do it eventually.

Nap, you are doing really well – I am so impressed with your determination. Remember that this is a WOL for good now so those kgs will come off – you know they will. I just get the feeling that you are hung up on that last 21kg. and it’s keeping you down. Try to enjoy this journey and get excited as some of the other readers do about how much your health will improve. I am also wondering if you are making it really hard for yourself by taking such a hard stance on FDs – 300cals is so little food – no wonder you are finding it frustrating. Sorry if I’ve gone on too much 🙂
(I’ve just noticed others have made some very useful comments further along as well)
I liked your comment about “letting go of the guilt that you weren’t doing enough” – I hope you can do it. You have already done so much and I know that you will find the right balance for you and stick to this.

Merry, that certainly was an incredible learning experience. I think many of us can relate to some aspects of your story. so thanks for sharing.
5:2 was very well explained – thanks for giving us a refresher.

Thin, all your travel stories are giving me ‘travel’ envy and I am so wanting to go on a trip too. Spain and Portugal will be terrific. I can’t recall you saying, but have you been there before? Personally, I loved Barcelona and I just LOVE Spanish tapas!!!! and the Jamon buns.
After study finishes and I get back to normal I think I will treat myself to a trip as well.
Thin, those rhymes must have been so hurtful and what a lasting legacy they have had. People forget that words are so powerful. I’ll put on my thinking cap and try to contribute to the collective ideas to rhyme with ‘Stanley’ 🙂

Wow, Intesha, I’m sure that you have also done well so far and it’s even a bonus to stay steady for so long but I think I would give up the 3rd FD too 🙂 you really are determined.

Hi EA and Bay,

Coast

Hi Everyone,

Coast, Tessy on another thread was also worried about me talking about liquorice tea because it can be dangerous for people with high blood pressure. She added this link: https://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/herb/licorice
It made me think I had better not talk about it too much any more, in case people drink heaps of it and it is bad for them.
So now I have come on line and oh dear! It is in the recipe thread. Do you think I was clear enough? I think you would have to drink a lot of it to cause harm, but should I add something?

(It is good for me because my blood pressure does not regulate itself well and I have to keep lying down to get blood back to my brain! Orthostatic intolerance, and even so, I don’t drink it all the time)

So many posts since this morning even! I’m going to respond in bits and pieces.

Thin I was not an overweight child! But I always thought I was. I couldn’t believe it when I went back to childhood photos and saw how perfectly normal I was! I put weight on as a teenager though!

I am one of a large family, 5th of 7 kids, and everyone was unhappy in their own way. Luckily I have three sisters who I am very close to, after we finally fought our way through our own private battles. It took a while, but we got there in the end.

Hi Coast and all you lovely people.

Cinque – I ate a licorice wheel when I were a nipper. Went to bed. Woke up. Black sick all over my hair and pillow. My sister had to clean it up because my mum was at work and my dad can’t handle it when people are “being bad”. So I for one will be steering clear from the tea ha ha.

Thin – I am glad you are feeling better now. We all have our moments.

Fast day for me tomorrow. Well done to all you Wednesday fasters.

Last post for now (I promise 😉 )
I love the conversation about Feast and Famine and all the things we can do to 5:2. So many good points. I just loved what you wrote Merry!

Thin, Cheers on turning around your Fast Day, I hope you wake up feeling excellent tomorrow.

Poor EA, what a ghastly liquorice experience! No liquorice tea for you!

Fast Day for me tomorrow too! And on Friday I am catching up with those three sisters I mentioned, so I am looking forward to that!

Good night, sweet dreams.

wow! You guys are so lovely and supportive to each other – and practical too which I love!
Thanks for the welcomes.
First day went well – down 700g but now its ‘normal’ eating for a couple of days. My challenge will be to not restrict my calories too much as this had been my latest thing, and I need to remember to hit my TDEE; the other challenge will be not looking at scales to dishearteningly until things even out over the week too?

Hi:

I am fascinated by the discussion on starvation mode and its counterpart, ‘feast and famine’.

As you know (because you have read the FAQ section at the top of this page and Dr. M’s post on the subject, not to mention clinical studies), there is no such thing as ‘starvation mode’ for overweight or average weight people – it is a myth with no factual support. If you look at the metabolism calculator at the top of this page (the TDEE calculator) you will also notice there is no input for number of calories eaten during the day/week/month or whatever. That is because the number of calories eaten do not impact a person’s metabolism (TDEE).

There is absolutely no truth to the belief that if you eat more calories, you will lose weight faster than if you eat fewer calories. The fastest way to lose weight is to eat nothing at all (water fast), and if a ‘starvation mode’ was around anywhere, that would be where it would step in and prohibit or inhibit weight loss. Instead, you lose a little less than a pound a day over time. As I have posted in other threads, the longest documented medically supervised water fast lasted for a little over 54 weeks and the gentleman lost around 276 pounds – no starvation mode there!

So feel free to eat as little as you wish and don’t worry about eating to your TDEE on non diet days.

The less you eat, the more you lose.

Hi Simco

I’m thinking about the issue. What I feel is that the issue of a healthy weight and diet is comprised of three parts, physical, mental and emotional. Your approach addresses the physical aspect of the issue.

May I venture to say that most of us would never have been overweight if we had the emotional and mental aspects of food under control. Physical control comes first, but emotional and mental control is what sustains us for the long haul.

What I am proudest of achieving through 5:2 is portion control and making good choices on type of food. I cannot write more now as am on my way to golf. All the best.

Cheers, Bay ??

Morning Bay, I’ve just seen your posts. Enjoy golf. I’m off for my walk with a spring in my step this morning. There’s nothing like the feeling of a fast behind you. Have a great day Thursday fasters.

Hi bay and thin:

Plateaus are bad or good depending on your place in the weight loss cycle. If you are trying to lose weight, they are bad, but if you have reached your goal and are trying to maintain your new, lower weight, plateaus are good. Over several decades, I have never run into someone who had reached their weight loss goal and was concerned that if they began to eat more food, their weight loss would resume! For some reason, they tend to think if they eat more food, their weight gain will resume. And they have proven themselves correct many times.

Plateaus are common and efforts to figure out why they happen on a short term basis (a month or less) and do something about them are pretty much a waste of time in my opinion. Even long term water fasters will hit a (very short) plateau occasionally, and even gain every once in awhile (though not often or for more than a day). If you drink a couple of glasses of water (not to mention the incredible amounts reported on this and other sites as ‘necessary’ for weight loss) and the body needs the water and retains it, then you have gained a pound ‘for no reason’.

I have addressed real plateaus of over a month (and most other common questions about 5:2) on this thread (look for the plateau link): https://thefastdiet.co.uk/forums/topic/the-basics-for-newbies-your-questions-answered/.

The thread, in the TDEE link, also explains why going to 4:3 does little, especially since people that add one more diet day tend to eat even more on their non diet days and reduce the minimal effect of the small reduction in calories caused by an additional diet day. All research and reporting I have seen indicates people that do 4:3 lose only a small amount more than they do on 5:2.

The mental aspect of dieting is extremely important, and if a person is not ready to do what it takes to lose weight (eat less over a long period of time) then there is little that can be done. I don’t know how ‘deprived’ is defined, but most overweight people feel deprived simply by not being able to eat the way they are used to eating. And they can’t wait for the diet to end so they can go back to not being deprived – that is, eating the way they want to eat but could not during the diet. And, of course, they gain the weight they lost back, and then some. I’m afraid, from a mental point of view, there is no way for a person to lose and then maintain their weight loss unless and until they eliminate the concept of being deprived because they have to eat less. They just have to decide they are not deprived at all by eating so little food and go on to other matters. Because to maintain their weight loss they will have to eat very little food for the rest of their lives – their new, lower TDEE.

As far as the ‘feast and famine effect’, I’m afraid I don’t know what that is. There is no scientific evidence that eating one day and not eating the next leads to any material long term health benefits, aside from weight loss (if you don’t over eat on non diet days) and benefits commonly associated with weight loss such as better blood work and lower blood pressure. These benefits are not to be sneezed at, but they can be achieved with any other reduced calorie diet without feasting and fasting. Research does show that four plus day water fasts can be very beneficial for many chronic diet caused conditions and other conditions like epilepsy, among others, but that research has not extended such benefits to water fasts consisting of a few hours or even a day or two.

The genius of 5:2 is that a person can eat whatever they want – no type of food deprivation at all – and if they stick to the calorie guidelines they will lose weight. They won’t lose fast, and their weight loss will not proceed in a straight line down, but they will lose. They have to. And if they are not losing weight for a month or more, they are eating too much. It really is that simple.

The less you eat, the more you lose (or the more you eat the less you lose).

HI SH,

Signing in,
weigh-in after 2 FDs – 200gms down. 11.2kg let go since 1st Aug 2015. Yayy!!!

Interesting forum conversation today. Thanks for the input Simco. It’s always good to have alternative opinions and new facts made available.

As you can see, I am taking it slow. Totally see your point about eating less to lose weight but I am following the concepts as set out by Bay and Thin – the physical, mental and emotional approach.

I am doing this 5:2 as a way to make changes in my relationship and choices with food and also life. I am satisfied with a slower weight loss as long as I feel the my days are pretty normal and don’t involve massive deprivation (calorie restriction) which is unsustainable in the long-term. That is not life.

I think many of us would agree that it is not the weight loss that is a problem, it is the weight loss maintenance we have issues with. Many of us are experts at weight loss – it is keeping it off that has been a problem in the past.

I am feeling that with the changes inspired through 5:2, I will be able to slowly lose the weight and then maintain that loss. We are learning so much about what works and doesn’t work for our own individual bodies and learning to watch for the emotions that trigger the munchies and developing the mental strength to overcome those emotions and munchy attacks because we know ourselves so much better. All with the help of our forum buddies.

To sum up, we are making better choices and reduced portion sizes (most of the time) but also know that if we don’t, it is not the end of the world 🙂 and yes, that does involve eating less at times when we choose to 🙂 and we often find we are doing just that – but some days have to be fun.

signing off

Coast

(ps hope I didn’t rave on too long)

Afternoon all. Just a quickie from me to say hi and well done to you Thin for another successful fast day and Cinque, I’m right here with you. Just enjoying my second green tea with mint of the day. Well, I haven’t been walking and golfing like you energetic lot but have been baking!! Yeah, probably not the best choice of activities on a fast day but there you go.

Righto, best get on.

I haven’t checked out that new food channel yet Cinque but I will (but not today!) Most of the time I don’t mind being around food on fast days (as long as I remember not to nibble). I’ve got to feed the five thousand anyway. Today I made a pecan carrot cake for the first time ever and can’t even try it. The kids have given it the thumbs up though and I shall save some for me to eat tomorrow.

Hope you got your ironing done. I’ve got more ironing than you can shake a hanger at at the moment.

Well, soon be tea and bed time and that’ll be another fast day under our belts. I’m looking forward to the weigh in tomorrow.

Thanks for explaining that, Merry. My morning cappucino after a FD was with half cup low fat milk, yes. On FD I have the unsweetened almond milk, and yes, count it. I just wasn’t sure if, as we get 500cals for a FD, maybe you allow yourself 100 cals for the morning or something.

I am not saying the more calories a person eats, the faster the metabolism. But I am not convinced that the body doesn’t adjust to a lack of food over time. It has to store some fat and nutrients to survive, when food is in constant short supply. And that explains one reason why 5:2 works – the body can’t adjust to the ‘fasting’. If it was as simple as calorie reduction, then wouldn’t we all lose the same amount of weight in the same timeframe when we diet?

Marvellously put Merry. Thursday fasters, you have another day behind you (well almost for you EA). I hope you got in lots of fun toddler time if you weren’t doing the ironing. The pecan & carrot cake sounds yummy. Cinque and EA, I checked out that food channel last night. I quite enjoy cooking on a FD and it’s taught me not to lick & taste everything as I used to do!

Simco, I know you’ve posted extensively on various threads and I too read a lot of your info for newbies when I started 5:2. You clearly have an extensive background in nutrition and a comprehensive knowledge of it. But I’m curious to know, if you’re willing to divulge, what is your personal experience with 5:2?

I’m glad I went for that early morning walk – I was rewarded with seeing a mother and baby dolphin. Always a uplifting sight.

Well, I managed to not overeat too much on my first postFD! Although hard to resist when students bring chokes and its cake day at work! I was sensible at all other times! So down 100g still which I didn’t expect. I’m doing really well with drinking much more water than I usually would which truly does help…go figure 😉
Interesting discussions re: 5:2, 4:3, calories etc… As this is my first week and I started mid week, I’m trying to play catch up and will try another fast day today, then on track to be a monday, Thursday faster. That will temporarily give me a 4:3 but hopefully I can manage – there is no way I could fast on a weekend! One of my previous ‘diets’ was the protein shakes – they actually aren’t too bad and will will try that on my FD. Will keep me at around 400 calories and I already know what that is like so fingers crossed!
Time to get kids up and head to work! Have a great day everyone!

Hi everyone,

Good to read everyone’s messages! Well done Merz! Great to get your 1st FD done successfully. OH(other half) and I started on a Thursday. I think it went….. Documentary Monday night, bought book Tuesday, both read it, shopping and planning Wednesday, 1st FD Thursday. Welcome to the Mon/Thur fasters group which is the most common group I think. And yes we have various other combinations as well as the valient couple who fast on Sunday. Then there are those who are the sliders – those who change their fast days around through the week regularly. There’s the B2Bs, back to backers, the stoic ones fasting 2 days in a row and getting them out the way, and a number of ODB, one day betweeners who seem to be mostly Mon/Wed fasters. All good.

Good idea to measure everything, waist, hips, chest, upper arms, thighs etc neck, wrists too if you want. Sometimes the weight doesn’t go down but the measurements do.

Water… Debates over that one. I’m a drink-lots-of-water faster. Feeling hungry on a fast day – glass of water, peppermint tea etc. some do, some don’t.

Looking forward to celebrating your journey with you 🙂

Merry

Just saw your last post. I meant the one before, in particular 🙂 I have wondered if my bigger drop this week was because I changed my days to Tues & Thurs, but am thinking it was most probably that I also ate less on my other days as my stomach seems to have well & truly shrunk. Love 5:2!

Lovely to hear from you Cate, and thanks. Good to hear that you are feeling so comfortable on 5:2, and setting that new goal. I echo all you’ve said about hunger – now I know what it really feels like and can ignore it. What a revelation. Now I even look forward to FDs. Who would have thought :-). Even if you don’t post often Cate, we’ll remember you’re here reading 🙂

Cheers,
Merry

Sorry, forgot to say, welcome Merz and congratulations on your weight loss. I don’t do 4:3 nor back to backs. I used to fast on Mondays and Wednesdays but I do switch about and seem to fast more now on Thursdays. But I am flexible depending on what I am doing but I do try to stick to Mondays no matter what. But you will discover your own rhythm. The best advise I can give is check in regularly with this forum. These lovely bunch of women really help to keep each other in check and will kick you up the bottom if so required. And boy have I required it ha ha.

EA

Hi Thin:

I’ve posted my ‘results’ on other threads, so in a nutshell I have lost 40 pounds using 5:2 and have maintained the loss for about 10 months now. I will be going back on 5:2 after the first of the year to lose some more.

Hi Merryme:

The impact starvation combined with fear of death from other causes can have on the mind can be terrible. In my opinion, the awful things humans do to each other simply cannot be rationally explained – but there are plenty of reasons put forth to justify the conduct.

As for your ‘mitochondrial dysfunction’, you do not say whether it is mitochondrial myopathy or mitochondrial encephalomyopathy. Either way, I have not run across (or looked for) any research addressing those conditions and fasting.

You would be amazed at the number of people that actually believe their metabolisms slow down if they don’t eat enough food and feel to speed up their metabolisms and resume losing weight they have to eat more food than they have been eating on whatever their diet. The starvation mode myth has taken hold and spread, can be found all over the internet, can be heard from personal trainers explaining to their clients why they are not losing weight despite all of the exercise they are being subjected to (and paying for), and as an excuse not to skip meals or go for very long without food. I have never researched its origin, but expect it started in some kind of diet book. I would assume the book was successful (if it exists) because who wouldn’t buy a diet book that told the reader/dieter to eat more food in order to lose weight!

As with most myths, there is a kernel of truth to it, as there really is such a thing as ‘starvation mode’. It happens when the human body gets below 5% body fat, and the ‘metabolism’ slows down up to 40% to try to slow down the body from eating its muscles (read heart) to stay alive. Most people that die of starvation die from heart attacks. Even in starvation mode, however, the body continues to lose weight as it eats its muscles. However, anyone of normal weight, much less anyone who is overweight and trying to lose weight, never comes close to starving and slowing down their metabolisms – even if they think they are because of missing a few meals or eating less than they have been for pretty much any period of time. I have not run into anyone with 5% or less body fat on a weight loss diet unless they are anorexic.

You can’t turn your back for five minutes without missing out on so much on here. Was it Coast or Cinque wanting a timeline? I leave on Tuesday for just over 7 weeks. I doubt I’ll be able to post much as we’re only taking OH’s ipad mini and I neither know how to use it, nor does he like sharing. Also though, the plan is to immerse ourselves in local culture rather than ‘staying connected’. But I’ll be thinking of you all often especially every time I put something in my mouth that shouldn’t be going in. Unlike Intesha, I’ll be continuing my obsessive weighing morning & night as my Veretta travel scales are going with me.

That name has reminded me of the Vegetti that we used to discuss here – do the newer posters know about the gadget that makes ‘spaghetti’ from courgettes?

EA, sorry you didn’t get the result you’d hoped for this morning – don’t give up, you’ll be fine. Yes I often experienced variable results between and after FDs and gave up trying to rationalise. Well done Intesha and Merry.

That’s an impressive result simco – especially the maintenance aspect. Have you been maintaining with 6:1? All the months I’ve been reading your posts, I’ve been assuming you’re a male – but having met two people from this thread and exchanged photos with one other, I know our perception of who it is we’re corresponding with can be quite incorrect! Not that it matters either way.

Have a great weekend everyone.