Wow, you really had an incredible weight loss of 10kgs in 4 months. Thats cool and impressive 🙂

As I said, I’ve another 25lbs to lose (half of your target). Am sure we are achieving this. On March 6th, I came from “Obese” to “OverWeight” according to my BMI readings, and now, I’ve an estimate that by End of this Month I’ll officially become “Normal” from “OverWeight”. Waiting eagerly to celebrate that moment, as I was in Obese Class 2 and Obese Class 1 from the past 12 years, hmmm.

My wife is a bit sad that I’m losing all my charm by loosing this much of weight, but, I don’t distract myself with this, as I want to completely get rid of the liver fat and have a healthy body fat ratio. I want to become a healthy ideal father for my son and live enough to take care of him and family.

I can’t wait to see myself and You reaching our healthy targets and get rid off this so called lifestyle disaster, diabetes. So, I believe you goanna start ADF (Alternate Day Fasting) now. All the very best.

Hello everyone,

Especially you Krishna, who have supported me so much when I was making no progress at all. You always had faith in me and I really appreciate it.

Well, finally I have turned the corner and am making continuous progress, and I am finally able to eat regularly. Today I weigh 165lbs – 8 pounds less than what I was when I was diagnosed 30 years ago.

Today, I was reminiscing about the history of diabetes and it’s treatment in the 20th Century. I know something of this because I have lived a long time, diabetes was in my family, and I am a University educated nurse My husband said it was interesting and that I should post it here. This is my take on the subject.

Before 1920 there was no drug, insulin. People were treated by reducing carbohydrate intake. This was especially so with Type 1 diabetics, where children were basically starved(fat being one thing they could eat without increasing the blood sugar) in order that they could live longer. It always ended with death eventually, as the lack of insulin wasted their bodies away. The discovery of insulin was a godsend as their lives we spared.

At that time,few adults got diabetes Type 2 because people did not eat as many carbohydrates as we now do, and they worked hard and burned off what they ate. Some did though and the treatment would be similar to Type 1 but not as severe. Also little was known about it. My grandmother died of what was diagnosed as “sleeping sickness” It was likely Diabetes Type 2.

In the mid-1950’s my mother was diagnosed with Diabetes Type 2. Treatment – no sugar, and a balanced diet (30-30-30). That remained the treatment (I am speaking here of food treatment, not exercise and medication) until the early 1980’s when the low fat diet hit with a storm. Firstly it was cut the animal fats and substitute polyunsaturated oils to lower cholesterol. Then polyunsaturated oils were found to work on lowering cholesterol but increasing cancer, so monounsaturated oils were to replace polyunsaturates. They had no effect on cholesterol, not increasing it and did not cause cancer. Then it was decided to cut down fats altogether.

That was when I was diagnosed. No fat – not even in the food guide I was to follow. I was to increase fibre, so whole grains. It was even OK to eat sugar but it did not have to be eliminated as it was with my mother.

In the early 1990’s the governmental recommendations for food intake for all people in Canada and the USA were changed to say that the majority of food should be grains. It doubled. And one was to increase exercise to allow for that increase.

In the late 1990’s when my son was diagnosed, he was not told to increase the fibre but to eat protein with eat meal. (maybe that was a step forward to today)

I’m not really sure what is recommended by the Diabetes Educators, except that for quite some time now it is a lot more wishy-washy than it used to be. They use the plate method. The plate is divided – 1/4 protein,1/4 carbohydrates and 1/2 vegetables, with some things – milk and fruit on the side.

Some practitioners are now advocating Low Carbohydrate High Fat. Sound familiar? Yes right back to before 1920’s. And there are the few who suggest intermittent fasting. Well here we are then, what is working for you?

Ginette,

These newer pundits, advocating low carb high fat diet, say we do not have to reduce our salt.

Hi PJBR,

That was really a pretty good explanation of the history of the treatment of Diabetes. Really it was indeed very informative. I really like this forum as this provides a lot of support and in our thread, without any exception. Everyday, I keep on looking at this thread to see replies from you/Ginette and try to see for any new posts where people might just be suffering from this lifestyle disorder and catch a glimpse of this thread. Wholeheartedly I want to help others, sharing the knowledge I’ve and improve my knowledge by reading through what you all post here.

There’s a whole ton of information so valuable, out here. What is more precious than the sincere posts of the experienced people, thriving day-in and day-out with their issues, success, updates and so.

My 2nd Week of FBD (not exactly as i fasted for only one day) went not so good. Had just a weight loss of 1.3 kg. So, till now Week 1 + Week 2 => 3.3 kgs. In Week 3 and till now no fluctuation. Let’s see how it goes till the Week End.

Hi Ginette,

Pretty good message. Truly said. I too wonder and really pray that people out there who are diabetic should see this thread, get more info, and change their lives. May be we all should use this thread link in our social media (facebook, linkedin, twitter etc) to make it more visible to the people out there.

Soon am going to write a blog post on weight loss (after I lose another 9 kgs) and reversal of Type 2 Diabetes and am going to share it in my facebook link along with this thread links. I know the pain and agony that people face with this lifestyle disaster, as I went through it day in and day out. Tons of people out there don’t know, that it can be reversed, as you’ve mentioned truly. I sincerely pray for them.

Truly your weight loss regime on FBD is awesome. Thank’s for posting that. It motivates me to continue on the path.

You’re right. These fizzy drinks are the main source for my diabetes, as I used to have 1- 1.5 litre of coke/pepsi/fanta every day (I know that’s too extreme, but that time I was pretty ignorant!). Now, ofcourse we do have 0 calories of that versions, but, even they are much more harmful due to Artificial sweeteners and Aspartime. So, I completely avoided taking even a small sip of them (from the past 3 months). Now, I take lot of fat (cheese, khova, paneer, butter) with some protein and carbs. Another 9.8 kgs to go….!!!

H all

This was interesting, this was 2008, the ban has obviously been lifted.

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/stevia.3230/

I only use it occasionally. But I do use it. Last used a few week ago.

Ginette

oh I forgot to tell you about a great new website by a diabetes educator who has compiled loads of good information for one to brouse. She is one who is also trying to spread the word.
Google “low carb RN

Hope you enjoy as much as I did. Of course I was pleased that a fellow nurse is on board.

One to make you smile.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjB5DiJTuAo

Ginette

Hi Purple

I have seen you on different threads here and I think I have just read that you have lost 30kg that is four and a half stones or 67lbs. An amazing lost. I believe your husband lost the same.

I lost a stone (14lbs) between May and January by just cutting back. I then started 5:2 mid January. Since then I have lost two and a half stones, 37lbs.

A total of 23 kg. I still have a long way to go…. About five and a half stone or 36kg.

5:2 has been the easiest thing for me to adapt to.

I was told I was a prime target for diabetes so I have decided to do something about it. I support everybody on this thread as I have an interest in diabetes and want to avoid getting it.

You have done brilliantly and so has your husband. What a story. How are you coping with Maintenence now?

Ginette

Hi Purple

Nice to know you are maintaining on once a week. I have changed my food choices dramatically. I used to eat a lot of carbs. Toast in the morning, sandwich at lunch time and either baked potatoe with something or pasta or rice in the evening. Not a lot of protein. I didn’t have big meals but all the wrong type of foods.

I now don’t eat breakfast as I’ve never enjoyed it. I fast 2/3 days a week I prefer wholemeal granary bread and have this 2/3 times a week as a sandwich at lunchtime. Evening meal is often chicken, sometimes fish or maybe quorn mince or beef mince. I always have lots of vegetables I eat I portion of fruit most days. I have potatoes 2/3 times a week. No pasta since January or rice. I occasionally have omelette for lunch or dinner. So better choices all around. I have a couple of nuts everyday that I am not fasting normally I Brazil nut and a walnut. Fruit and youghurt is a favourite for fast day lunch, at the moment it is either cantaloupe melon, strawberries or kiwis. I think shortly peaches will be added to that.

I feel better for changing what I eat and know that the weight will come off, it may take another year or so but I know I will get there.

As you are calculating weight in KG I assume you are not in the UK. I am not quite sure what kefir yoghurt is.

Does your husband keep fasting for two days to keep his sugar down or is he still trying to lose weight?

Ginette

Hi again Ginette
I am in Australia. I think Dr M has saved hundreds of lives.
You sound as if you know what you are doing. Well done.
Mr P fasts to keep his own insulin working properly. He only weighs 67kg (down from 100 kg 2 years ago),so does not need to lose weight. He really finds the fasting is the key to low bs and insulin sensitivity. As I said, he tests his bs every morning and adjusts his food patterns accordingly. If elevated at all, he simply stops eating until lunch or dinner.
Kefir is different to yoghurt. It is fermented milk made with “kefir grains”. Simple to make, excellent for gut flora. I also make full cream yoghurt for desserts. Hope this helps. Purple

Dear Ginette & PJBR,

Hope you’re rocking. Last week I went and did some medical checks to see in what state I’m currently. Did the “Lipid count” check and found that my LDL (bad cholesterol), VLDL & TGL are pretty good in control 🙂 and my HDL (good cholesterol) is just at average (need to increase it) and overall cholesterol is pretty good (below 150). Only thing to worry is about my Hemoglobin level (13.9) which is at the verge of bare minimum. I need to work on this. Before I started this weight loss, I was having high cholesterol and doc’s told me that it’s in danger zone. Now, its in better range.

Couple of things I wanted to share with you, rather, take your opinion on. All this last week I’ve been going through Dr. Fung’s website (IDM) and was going through all his posts. Infact in the office I’ve been reading these posts from the couple of days as I’m so addicted to get as much knowledge as possible.

One thing what he says, and seems pretty logical is, there’s no point in counting calories as that’s not what it meant for our bodies as they doesn’t make sense. What does make sense, is the foods that we eat versus the Insulin Sensitivity/Insulin Resistance/Insulin spike as this is what drives the Obesity/Weight(Fat) Loss. He also says about the BSW (Body Set Weight) and body acting like a thermostat rather than a scale. And he talks about how to set the BSW (by reducing the Insulin in body through peaks of feasting and fasting).

1) What I’ve been thinking about is, if this is the case, why is that in IF here, they say that on the fasting days just take 1/4th of your normal calorie intake, since really calories doesn’t (shouldn’t) matter right?

2) So, even though I take all my calories, but still make sure, my insulin spikes aren’t more or at control, I still should be able to lose weight (by changing the BSW) right?

3) According to him, avoiding refined carbs and animal protein, which spikes the insulin levels (not just BS levels), the body should lose fat and reach the ideal body weight, set by BSW. Did anyone you know, tried this approach?

4) PJBR, especially when you attended those sessions of fasting from one of the colleagues of Dr Fung did you had any such discussions over there?

I greatly appreciate your thoughts and opinions in this.

Thanks Ginette. That makes more sense of what you’ve said. I was just eager to figure out whether really do calories matter or not, Or is it just the food type that matters.

Truly said Ginette, I agree with you.

Out of the box, I was just curious to figure out, is it just the effect of fasting and/or restriction of calories do effect our weight loss in the long term. My FBD has been going on good. 2nd and 3rd week has been steady with just 1 kg of loss. Am at 69kgs and another 1 kg to lose to come to Normal weight range (according to BMI), so I’m waiting for that to see in my scale 🙂

No news from PJBR yet. I guess she started her ADF this week.

Hi! I am back after a visit to Vancouver for our first grandchild’s graduation from her post secondary education. She spent one complete year studying to be a makeup artist. She is ready for anything from fashion to theatrical makeup. She did very well in her course and we are hopeful for her to do well using those talents to make a living. There are few “jobs” per se out there for makeup artists so she will have to sell her talents to someone willing to pay for them. I do hope that the school also taught how to pursue that. So….

I have been celebrating and not fasting. I have been eating exceedingly well – by that I mean in high class restaurants. I have chosen foods according to my guidelines (except stealing french fries from my neighbour’s plate – they were such GOOD french fries) but I also snacked a lot – again foods acceptable, but non the less breaking a fast with frequent snacking is NOT good.

It is very difficult to fast when you are away from home and have no tools to help.

A recent article on Jason Fung’s blog suggested buying video’s of a recent LCHF conference in South Africa. Several experts in this food lifestyle are featured. I bought it and am finding it to be excellent. There is a lot to be learned from these people with a variety of backgrounds all with experience and knowledge in Low carbohydrate eating. Many have been seeing fasting as an adjunct to the food choices as beneficial.

Krishna, to answer your question to me: Yes Dr. Fung does talk about body set weight and about thermostat but only as an explanation of how the body works. One does not need to do anything to make it work for you. It just is.
He definitely is in favour of lowering one’s carbohydrate intake. His guideline suggests (as I recall) 0-10% of the intake for those wishing to lose weight or cure diabetes, to be carbohydrate. My understanding would be that the vegetables allowed would account for that 0-10%. Later when the goals are met, that could rise to 20%. My understanding is that then fruits and starches could be added to the intake to make up for this increase. It is not much, it would seem.
He does NOT say no animal meat, but does say a MODERATE amount of protein. He says that low carbohydrate, high fat is possible with vegetarian diet but it is more difficult.
Every body is different. His guidelines are that – guidelines, they are not specific, until it comes to the individual. For example, I have been told that I am VERY diabetic, and that even though I have VERY low carbohydrate intake (NO starch, NO fruit i.e. at close to 0% carbohydrates) I still am not losing weight very fast at all, nor do I have lower blood sugar readings without drugs. Being on the program, advice about nutrition specific for me can be given. It too is a part of my own learning about how my own body is responding.
Intermittent fasting can be done many, many ways. MM’s way, with counting calories is only one way.
Jason Fung says fasting is to be no calorie fluids but has fats added. ( now that seems quite different to me)
Krishna, I hope I have answered your questions.
You have done very well with your fasting efforts, however you are doing it. Sometimes, I think ” If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”!

Hi:

Thought I would add some information and food for thought.

First, the HFLC diet has been around for a long time. It was first popularized as the Atkins Diet in 1972, but was around well before then.

Although I have no idea where Dr. Fung’s program ‘came from’, it is basically a combination of the original Atkins Diet and a fasting protocol used by Dr. Goldhamer for over 30 years. Dr. Goldhamer has reported for years that he has reversed type 2 diabetes via longer term fasting, combined with a plant based diet, just as Dr. Atkins reported he had reversed the type 2 diabetes of over 5000 patients using his Atkins Diet. Dr. Fung realized that by starting with a longer term fast, and using intermittent fasting in conjunction with the HFLC diet, he could speed up the reversal of the diabetes. I am glad he is continuing the educational process and letting people know they are not doomed to suffer from diabetes until they die.

As for ‘calories in, calories out’ – well, it is still true. Dr. Fung even writes in his blog that calories in, calories out is ‘technically’ true (can there be any other ‘truth’ when it comes to science?).

The thought that it is not true seems to come from the fact that on the HFLC diet you can eat what you want, not count calories and still lose weight. People seem to think that there is something ‘special’ about the diet that contradicts the calories in/out theory.

However, what most people have never done, because they don’t have to, is count calories when on the HFLC diet. Research was done on the induction phase of the Atkins diet (20 g. of carbs or less per day, all of the fat/protein foods you want to eat), and when they counted the calories eaten, instead of the carbs, they found that people were eating 1500 or fewer calories per day (of course, it varied by person). You hear it all the time by people on the diet – they get full and don’t get hungry again quickly, so they don’t eat. That is why people on the HFLC diet lose weight – they are on a continuous low calorie diet.

That leads into the ‘set point theory’. Note the word ‘theory’ – it has never been proven. However, there is some scientific basis for the concept that the body can regulate its food intake – if it is eating certain foods.

Humans developed eating fat and protein – lots of fat, some protein. The amount of carbs they ate in the form of fruits, berries and nuts, was very small. As a result, the body developed ‘sensors’ that monitored the body’s intake of fat and protein (not carbs) and those sensors told the brain when fat and protein were coming in. The brain took note, and if it felt the body needed more, signaled that fact by making the body ‘hungry’. But, if it felt the body had enough food, it said ‘I’m full’, and eating stopped. These sensors are still in place and operative, so when someone goes on the HFLC diet, they eat until they are full and stop. If they are overweight, this usually means they stop eating at a caloric intake level lower than their TDEE – and they lose weight.

The low fat high carb diet was insidious because it ‘bypassed’ the body’s sensors. There being no sensors that picked up carb intake, the body can eat carb after carb and the brain will not know about it. So it keeps saying ‘I’m hungry, get more food’, and the body will continue to eat. This becomes even worse than just getting fat as a result because of the way the body processes carbs – and now we get into blood sugar spikes, high insulin production to counter the spikes and all that comes with that process.

So now I see people returning to the Atkins diet, this time not as rebels but as followers of main stream thought. It has several things going against it as a long term diet – two are critical. First, it is expensive to follow. Fat and protein cost considerably more over time than do carbs, so it is not a ‘cheap’ diet. Second, people trying to begin and stay on the diet after decades of being told to eat carbs have to deal with carb addiction. As people on the HFLC diet slip a couple of carbs into their diet (treats) the addiction kicks in and more and more ‘treats’ seem to make their way into the diet, until the person is back eating like they used to eat. People post this chain of events on this site all of the time. It is hard fighting an addiction.

That is where fasting comes in. Fasting is proven to work with any type of diet. In addition to the two days of severely reduced eating (which lowers all intake), by focusing on calories the remaining non diet days carb intake is also restricted despite the ‘lack of sensors’ to indicate when to stop eating. Research shows that not only leads to weight loss, but improved blood work. If longer term fasts are begun, then, perhaps, other benefits may be realized.

Just food for thought.

simcoeluv,
good description.

Interesting discussions. Mr P took 18 months to get totally off all insulin and Metformin. He is a very low weight now (middle of healthy range) but finds he really needs to fast twice a week to keep his blood sugar steady. We have just spent 5 weeks in Nth America (great food in Vancouver). We did no proper fasts, gained no weight, but selected food that was low on starchy carbs and Mr P skipped breakfast and sometimes lunch if his bs was slightly elevated. This is the advantage of daily bs testing. We also weighed every day to monitor.
Counting calories, initially, gives one a “feel” for the value of some foods. Leafy veg and some protein (including full fat) are satiating. Empty carbs are not. If I can fill up on a huge plate of veg soup or salad and fish as my only meal and not require snacks then that is the food to choose.
As diabetics, record your bloodsugars and what you eat. You’ll quickly work out quantity, frequency and type of foods that keep your body healthy. It isn’t magic, but takes self awareness and control.
Good luck folk. P

It’s interesting and indeed sad if it is really accurate. I wonder if lifestyle changes had less effect because the people could still cut calories and lose weight but not reduce carbs enough?
The results showed that more weight was lost after surgery. Minus 5% for life intervention and average -20% for surgery. I have no medical training but that sounds very relevant to me.

This is the article in JAMA Surgery:
http://archsurg.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=2362353&resultClick=3#Conclusions

Hi PVE 🙂
Holland is hot and humid 🙁 So am I too!
Struggling with this weight thing. Today an odd idea occurred to me; to be nice to my body! It’s a weird idea to have at 56 ‘Look after your body!’. Better late than never? 🙂

How are you doing? Is it all going well? xx
The link Simcoe posted is to a newspaper article based on the link I posted. It’s a headline slant as always with the papers. They seem to have ignored the difference in weight lost by the two methods so are implying that weight lost by dieting isn’t so effective as that lost by surgery.
xx

Hi all,

I am sure Dr. Fung would agree that surgery will work to reverse diabetes type2 but would suggest that
fasting is as effective and less painful.(and maybe less stupid)

But there are people who just do not want to bother,or do not want to give up their lifestyle or are fearful of fasting or believe they just could not fast. I am sure you have talked with people who have voiced those points of view. I sure have. In fact I have not met one who said “Hey what a great idea, I think I’ll try that”. The only ones who I know that are committed are all of you great contributers to this forum.

Thanks to this group of people for all your support.

Hi All,

I am doing fine thank you very much for asking, Ginette.

The only thing that is wrong lately is that I cannot get through a day of fasting without breaking the fast. NOT GOOD. I would like to do a longer fast but have not been successful. I have not weighed myself for a while so do not know how that is, but sufficient to say, there is no “peeling off”.
Though I have resurrected some clothes that I have not been able to wear for a few years and some people say that my weight loss is visible. I guess I am just impatient.

My blood pressure is normal now with no medications to help to lower it. Yay!

Last night we went to a friend’s house for dinner. Good up to dessert. Dessert was a very delicious Tiramisu. This is the first dessert I have had since I started Dr. Fung’s program. (We were told that we could have dessert once a week so I had a butter tart {quintessentially Canadian} that first week with disastrous results! So nothing more until last night) Not SO bad. My blood sugar this am is the same as it has been – very steady for the last several days.

Thank you for the exercise link. Being a fan of Dr. M M I am aware of HIT and try to do it. I am really not good with exercise so am not consistent. If only I could change my bad habits. That would be one and I’m NOT going to divulge to you any more of my bad habits.!!

I wish everyone good luck this week. Thank you for being here and supporting me in this journey.

Hi Ginette & PJBR,

I’m not doing that good, in fact, I’m a bit over confused and thrown away. Last week has been a bit difficult for me. My BS levels, God should know the reason, have elevated again, after being constant since April. My fasting is coming to 110 and my Random (2 hours after food) is coming to 130 now. Previously they’ve been just 90 and 100 consecutively. I agree that on my son’s birthday party, I’ve been eating a bit of cake and desserts and some chocolates here and there, but these readings still doesn’t fit into my knowledge base.

I’ve been trying to figure out suddently, why such huge fluctuation out of the blue, after being pretty constant (normal) for the past 3.5 months. I’m no more doing FBD now.

Due to this low calorie intake, I’m frequently encountering mild fainting, due to the fact that, the blood is not flowing as soon as possible, when I usually wake up fast from the sitting/sleeping position. This is causing mild fainting. So, I have been eating 2-3 meals/day in fact bit more. Now, from the full last week, there’s been no change in my weight, even though I’ve been feasting a bit more. Constant at 68-69 kgs.

Please let me know yours thoughts on why this sudden increase in BS level would have been.

Hi PVE,

Thanks for the update. I really was so frustrated and confused over this sudden change. That’s a good insight for me to look into. I will also see if the same technique can help me and will keep you posted 🙂

Ginette,
I am sorry about your stress level. It seems that it has been high for a very long time. Are you getting any help for it? Is the cause of the stress being resolved? Sometimes a talk therapist can help you see your way through it.
I do hope the immediate stress is resolved soon.

Hi Krishna

I hope you manage to resolve your problem with BS. I really don’t know much about this and so will leave it to those better informed.

How wonderful if it can be helped by Purples idea of just skipping breakfast, well worth a try.

Hi PJBR

Yes is has been high but manageable for some while, this is just something else that happened out of the blue, I am taking advice of how to deal with it and I am currently having cognitive behavioural therapy.

Blood pressure is a problem due to this. I am hoping that things will settle down soon. To stop myself eating stupid things I may even do 3:4 at least until I get back into routine. This will limit the time I am not fasting and I hope to even lose a bit of weight. I feel as if I have got to start somewhere.

Ginette