reversing type 2 diabetes & the fastday lifestyle

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reversing type 2 diabetes & the fastday lifestyle

This topic contains 854 replies, has 38 voices, and was last updated by  PeonyLover 1 year, 10 months ago.

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  • Hi Krishna et al,
    so glad your BS’s are good.
    Have broken my fast 2x since June 1. At first the BS’s were higher than I wanted then I took 1/2 tablet of Invokana (the drug which did me in a few weeks ago) and my BS’s have been very good since. I am going to take the other 1/2 tablet on Wednesday and watch my BS.
    Yes my weight is falling – due to the fact I am taking no insulin. ( Boy that stuff is devastating!)
    Total weight loss since beginning of February is 22 lbs. BMI is now at 28 – a big improvement – no longer obese, just overweight. I think I still may have 50 lbs to lose but maybe only 40. We will see when the A1C is normal.
    I have tons more energy than I used to have and find that I am able to do the mundane tasks of life much more easily. I could still do more exercise though as I do very little in that aspect.
    I am looking forward to eating every other day.
    I have been told that it will take one year before I can say goodbye to diabetes.

    Wow, you really had an incredible weight loss of 10kgs in 4 months. Thats cool and impressive 🙂

    As I said, I’ve another 25lbs to lose (half of your target). Am sure we are achieving this. On March 6th, I came from “Obese” to “OverWeight” according to my BMI readings, and now, I’ve an estimate that by End of this Month I’ll officially become “Normal” from “OverWeight”. Waiting eagerly to celebrate that moment, as I was in Obese Class 2 and Obese Class 1 from the past 12 years, hmmm.

    My wife is a bit sad that I’m losing all my charm by loosing this much of weight, but, I don’t distract myself with this, as I want to completely get rid of the liver fat and have a healthy body fat ratio. I want to become a healthy ideal father for my son and live enough to take care of him and family.

    I can’t wait to see myself and You reaching our healthy targets and get rid off this so called lifestyle disaster, diabetes. So, I believe you goanna start ADF (Alternate Day Fasting) now. All the very best.

    Hi Krishna

    I was at a place with no Interet connection last week and didn’t see your great results. That is 4.4lb. What an achievement. You must be really pleased. Keep posting results as it will be interesting to see.

    Are you finding it difficult or have you now settled into a pattern? Does it affect meds you are on and glucose?

    I found the first week a bit hard as I cut out all treats.

    I have just had another blood test as my sodium levels were very low. Dr thinks it is to do with meds so has referred me to a specialist to change them. This will take a few months as it is a slow withdrawal. I have been on the tablets I am taking for over 20 years and a bit nervous about changing them.

    I get blood test results on Friday. Sodium should be better as I have changed from lo sodium salt to regular salt.

    Let me know how you are doing.

    Ginette

    Hello everyone,

    Especially you Krishna, who have supported me so much when I was making no progress at all. You always had faith in me and I really appreciate it.

    Well, finally I have turned the corner and am making continuous progress, and I am finally able to eat regularly. Today I weigh 165lbs – 8 pounds less than what I was when I was diagnosed 30 years ago.

    Today, I was reminiscing about the history of diabetes and it’s treatment in the 20th Century. I know something of this because I have lived a long time, diabetes was in my family, and I am a University educated nurse My husband said it was interesting and that I should post it here. This is my take on the subject.

    Before 1920 there was no drug, insulin. People were treated by reducing carbohydrate intake. This was especially so with Type 1 diabetics, where children were basically starved(fat being one thing they could eat without increasing the blood sugar) in order that they could live longer. It always ended with death eventually, as the lack of insulin wasted their bodies away. The discovery of insulin was a godsend as their lives we spared.

    At that time,few adults got diabetes Type 2 because people did not eat as many carbohydrates as we now do, and they worked hard and burned off what they ate. Some did though and the treatment would be similar to Type 1 but not as severe. Also little was known about it. My grandmother died of what was diagnosed as “sleeping sickness” It was likely Diabetes Type 2.

    In the mid-1950’s my mother was diagnosed with Diabetes Type 2. Treatment – no sugar, and a balanced diet (30-30-30). That remained the treatment (I am speaking here of food treatment, not exercise and medication) until the early 1980’s when the low fat diet hit with a storm. Firstly it was cut the animal fats and substitute polyunsaturated oils to lower cholesterol. Then polyunsaturated oils were found to work on lowering cholesterol but increasing cancer, so monounsaturated oils were to replace polyunsaturates. They had no effect on cholesterol, not increasing it and did not cause cancer. Then it was decided to cut down fats altogether.

    That was when I was diagnosed. No fat – not even in the food guide I was to follow. I was to increase fibre, so whole grains. It was even OK to eat sugar but it did not have to be eliminated as it was with my mother.

    In the early 1990’s the governmental recommendations for food intake for all people in Canada and the USA were changed to say that the majority of food should be grains. It doubled. And one was to increase exercise to allow for that increase.

    In the late 1990’s when my son was diagnosed, he was not told to increase the fibre but to eat protein with eat meal. (maybe that was a step forward to today)

    I’m not really sure what is recommended by the Diabetes Educators, except that for quite some time now it is a lot more wishy-washy than it used to be. They use the plate method. The plate is divided – 1/4 protein,1/4 carbohydrates and 1/2 vegetables, with some things – milk and fruit on the side.

    Some practitioners are now advocating Low Carbohydrate High Fat. Sound familiar? Yes right back to before 1920’s. And there are the few who suggest intermittent fasting. Well here we are then, what is working for you?

    Ginette,

    These newer pundits, advocating low carb high fat diet, say we do not have to reduce our salt.

    Hi PJBR

    I have tried to cut down on salt for my blood pressure. My doctor told me a couple of years ago that she was worried about my sodium levels. I assumed (wrongly) it was high sodium levels and so made an effort to cut down.

    I have a sodium level of 27 now and it should be 35 – 45. I am told that if it falls to 25 I could have fits. The tablets that effec it are tegretol which I take to control epilepsy. So as you can imagine I really don’t want to have fits. These have been controlled for years and I know that there are withdrawal symptoms possible with them. A tablet I was on about 20+ years ago was withdrawn and I had a massive fit. Hence my worry.

    Your post about diabetes was really interesting. With some well documented changes in treatment methods. I was told that I was a prime candidate for diabetes. Hence my interest. I am lucky that although I like sweet treats I have only drunk a fizzy drink or rare occasions. Not even once a year – this includes diet versions.

    I don’t enjoy them so I am lucky.

    Fasting has helped me control what I eat. I have been doing 5:2 since the middle of Jauary and have lost a fair bit of weight. I started cutting back treats last May. I thave lost 3 and a half stone so far. I have gone from BMI that was in the morbidly obese range to now being in the severely obese range. I have promised myself that by the end of the year I shall be in the obese range.

    My target is 4 – 8 pounds a month, I sometimes exceed this but I have never lost less that 4lb a month whilst on 5:2. To me at 4lb a month that will be 48lbs in a year. Not sure what that is in kilos. But I consider this achievable. Even if I have holiday weeks out like Christmas and Easter I can achieve this.

    I also read with great interest the results of fasting on diabetes.

    Are you on tablets or injections? I am pleased to hear that you are making continuous progress as it will all add up. I realise that it is far more difficult to lose weight with diabetes than without.

    Anything that helps you reduce medication is good.

    We all are striving to get health problems under control and that takes time and effort.

    Ginette

    Hi PJBR,

    That was really a pretty good explanation of the history of the treatment of Diabetes. Really it was indeed very informative. I really like this forum as this provides a lot of support and in our thread, without any exception. Everyday, I keep on looking at this thread to see replies from you/Ginette and try to see for any new posts where people might just be suffering from this lifestyle disorder and catch a glimpse of this thread. Wholeheartedly I want to help others, sharing the knowledge I’ve and improve my knowledge by reading through what you all post here.

    There’s a whole ton of information so valuable, out here. What is more precious than the sincere posts of the experienced people, thriving day-in and day-out with their issues, success, updates and so.

    My 2nd Week of FBD (not exactly as i fasted for only one day) went not so good. Had just a weight loss of 1.3 kg. So, till now Week 1 + Week 2 => 3.3 kgs. In Week 3 and till now no fluctuation. Let’s see how it goes till the Week End.

    Hi Krishna

    I am constantly surprised why this thread is so underused. There are so many diabetics out there you would think that there would be many more people here.

    Who wouldn’t wish for the help, guidance and encouragement??

    I find it helpful to see the research to AVOID getting diabetes. I remember that you were over fond over fizzy drinks.

    Do you now have 0 calorie versions of them?

    I think some people don’t realise that it is reversible and just end up going from pre diabetic to type 2 and worse. I wish that they would realise what a struggle they have ahead if they don’t do anything.

    I commend both yourself and PJBR as you are both doing well. Support is everything. I did an online test and because of my waist measurement and weight I am at high risk.

    I am working to reduce these and haven’t measured for ages. I must do soon.

    You still have had a great loss on week 2 as you know all weeks aren’t equal.

    I have just copied my results from FBD to remind you of my losses.

    Here they are:

    Week 1 – 3lbs -1.36 kg
    Week 2 – 5lbs – 2.27 kg
    Week 3 – 1lb – 0.45 kg
    Week 4 – 2lbs – 0.91 kg
    Week 5 – 2lbs – 0.91kg
    Week 6 – 3lbs – 1.36 kg

    Total on FBD 16 lb or 1 stone 2lb or 7,25 kgs. A great result for me.

    ************

    As you see the loss changes from week to week. Men tend to lose more than women, that is a fact. I have never understood why but it has been true at any slimming club I belonged to it happened. It didn’t really worry me as I was only concerned with my loss. Remember that all the tine you are losing you are taking pressure off of your knees. So it is all good.

    I have a bit of weight/water fluctuation in the hot weather and as I know this is temporary, I take it in my stride. It used to really bother me. Last week I only lost half a pound, I like to lose at least one, I didn’t worry too much as I can see my ankles getting swollen in this warmer weather. I will get a nice loss one week to make up for it.

    Keep up the good work.

    I keep telling people about this thread as I would like to encourage them to read it.

    It has now been 5 months before I started 5:2 and I know it suits me. I lose regularly and have never put on weight since I started it. This to me is progress.

    Have a good week.

    Ginette

    Hi Ginette,

    Pretty good message. Truly said. I too wonder and really pray that people out there who are diabetic should see this thread, get more info, and change their lives. May be we all should use this thread link in our social media (facebook, linkedin, twitter etc) to make it more visible to the people out there.

    Soon am going to write a blog post on weight loss (after I lose another 9 kgs) and reversal of Type 2 Diabetes and am going to share it in my facebook link along with this thread links. I know the pain and agony that people face with this lifestyle disaster, as I went through it day in and day out. Tons of people out there don’t know, that it can be reversed, as you’ve mentioned truly. I sincerely pray for them.

    Truly your weight loss regime on FBD is awesome. Thank’s for posting that. It motivates me to continue on the path.

    You’re right. These fizzy drinks are the main source for my diabetes, as I used to have 1- 1.5 litre of coke/pepsi/fanta every day (I know that’s too extreme, but that time I was pretty ignorant!). Now, ofcourse we do have 0 calories of that versions, but, even they are much more harmful due to Artificial sweeteners and Aspartime. So, I completely avoided taking even a small sip of them (from the past 3 months). Now, I take lot of fat (cheese, khova, paneer, butter) with some protein and carbs. Another 9.8 kgs to go….!!!

    Hi Krishna

    Yes I think that the 0 calorie ones have problems as well. I think now though some use Stevia.

    We have a small Facebook thread. This is run by someone who is called Applepie on the forum. If you click on her profile you will get her contact. This is for invited people and a secret group so that those who wish to share photos, do not need to share them with the world.

    Lots of support on there. When you contact her just say I told you about it.

    PJBR this invitation goes to you as well.

    Google fast forum, Applepie and you will find her.

    At least you have found a way that with hard work will reverse it.

    I am sure that you will succeed in getting to your goal.

    It is a long road sometimes but every step is a step closer to the finish line.

    I have moved my finish line down by 7lbs, I did this after realising that is really is achievable. Ok it may take two or even three years and I shall hopefully remain as committed as I am now.

    This forum and the people on it help me.

    Hopefully we help each other.

    Ginette

    H all

    This was interesting, this was 2008, the ban has obviously been lifted.

    http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/stevia.3230/

    I only use it occasionally. But I do use it. Last used a few week ago.

    Ginette

    Hi you two,

    Yes it is a shame that more diabetics do not use this thread,but people do come and go.
    Perhaps most people believe that it cannot be cured. They may look at us as weirdos. After all it has been drummed into our heads by the “knowledgeabe” ones that it is incureable and progressive (sorry about all the spelling errors – I seem to be getting worse in spelling)

    In talking to diabetics, they often seem hopeful at first and then, when they find out it requires some intermittent fasting, even just foregoing breakfast they say “Oh I couldn’t do that!”
    This will not deterr me from trying to spread the word though. Perhaps after, when I can tell them I have done it they will see. Then again, maybe they just do not care. I think that is it in fact. Depression accompanies diabetes and hopelessness.
    I see diabetics fill they faces with sweet cookies at every bridge game. – they obviously do not care.
    Then again it is hard to change old ways. Our society eats a lot of carbohydrates. It is hard to cut them down. – Irish —potatoes Asians —-rice Italians —-pasta. Here in northern america which is a melting pot of all different cultural eating styles, we have adopted them all.

    In order to do this,( as a severe diabetic who when on insulin, no matter what I did my BS would not improve, nor would my markers (weight, etc.) go down. Now that I am off insulin things are improving but my BS still need medication.) I have had to resort to severe restrictions. I fast for 42 hours every second day. I eat NO grains, NO fruit, No starchy vegetables. These restrictions are very unappetizing and most people will not even consider it. I do eat a lot of fat and that is where I get the nutrients my body needs. But we have been told NOT to eat FAT !! Another place I get a lot of nutrients is from bone broth. Most people would not even consider boiling bones and/or vegetables for hours. After all you can buy broth at the store.

    all in all we have to keep trying to get the message out. But I know that we will be accepted as fervent evangetists are. The seed will fall upon fertile ground occasionally.

    I think the blog will be great Krishna.

    Ginette, thank you for your sharing your knowledge about all the threads to other places of interest for us diabetics. Also I so admire your strong positivity. You will succeed in this effort to lose excess weight. Yes it may take a while, as one can only burn up so many calories, but burn up they will. We are with you as you do this, as you see pound by pound it leaving.

    Anyway this is long enough. Courage folks! It is all good!

    oh I forgot to tell you about a great new website by a diabetes educator who has compiled loads of good information for one to brouse. She is one who is also trying to spread the word.
    Google “low carb RN

    Hope you enjoy as much as I did. Of course I was pleased that a fellow nurse is on board.

    Hi PJBR

    Interestingly I was reading some information about gelatin and home made broth. It was a really good article giving the benefits.

    I have just tried to find it again with no luck. I shall try again tomorrow as it is late now.

    Yes regarding my weight – it took about 10 years to gain and so if I lose it in three I shall be happy. I do not not want to lose it too quickly as I know loose skin can be a problem. As long as it goes down every month, I shall be happy.

    You show true dedication to improving your health, I admire your eating plan. I think it is just a matter of finding out what works and of being patient.

    As you say we can all go on this journey together, the reasons for me may be different to your reasons, but we are all three of us trying to improve our health.

    We can keep each other strong and focused.

    It is nice sharing this journey with you both.

    I shall google that tomorrow as I am tired now.

    I am so pleased you have managed to get down to tablets. As you say it is hard work but the health benefits will be many. Somebody may read this thread and be inspired to try. Let’s hope so.

    Ginette

    One to make you smile.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjB5DiJTuAo

    Ginette

    Hi healthy lifestyle folk
    It is great to see you all still flying the anti diabetes flag. It IS SO frustrating that the mainstream medical fraternity cannot see how simple it really is to reverse diabetes, reduce morbidity and mortality, and save nations a fortune on medical costs. Fasting reduces the need to eat frequently, changes attitudes to food and allows the body to produce insulin itself. Nothing magic about it. Eat less often. Eat less. Include fasts regularly. Eat more plants. Exercise regularly (walking works). Stop taking insulin and other drugs. They are the problem, not the solution. (Dr Jason Fung)
    We have just returned from 5 weeks in North America. My husband (the ex diabetic) had no trouble with his blood sugars while away, despite not fasting properly. He tests every morning, adjusts his food intake according to the results and weighs daily. He takes no diabetic drugs any more. To go from injecting insulin to no drugs and steady bloodsugars is not rocket science. It just takes self control. Anyone who wants to take care of their own future health can do it. Simple. Purple 🙂

    Hi Purple

    I have seen you on different threads here and I think I have just read that you have lost 30kg that is four and a half stones or 67lbs. An amazing lost. I believe your husband lost the same.

    I lost a stone (14lbs) between May and January by just cutting back. I then started 5:2 mid January. Since then I have lost two and a half stones, 37lbs.

    A total of 23 kg. I still have a long way to go…. About five and a half stone or 36kg.

    5:2 has been the easiest thing for me to adapt to.

    I was told I was a prime target for diabetes so I have decided to do something about it. I support everybody on this thread as I have an interest in diabetes and want to avoid getting it.

    You have done brilliantly and so has your husband. What a story. How are you coping with Maintenence now?

    Ginette

    Hi Ginette
    We have maintained our goal weights (and Mr P’s blood sugars) by continuing to fast regularly. He fasts twice a week, I do one a week, but we both skip breakfast whenever our weight or his bs rises. We wear activity monitors to ensure we do a minimum of 10000 steps a day and eat a low carb, full fat diet which includes lots of veafy veg. I make kefir, yoghurt and sourdough and we eat a lot of berries and some nuts. We have also introduced a variety of fermented foods into our diets.
    Basically, we totally rethought our diets and, over the year we lost weight, were vigilant. This allowed our mindset to change. We don’t count calories as we know which foods should be avoided, or limited. Life is good. We fit into lovely small clothes and have a spring in our step. I thank Dr M every single day! Purple 🙂

    Hi Purple

    Nice to know you are maintaining on once a week. I have changed my food choices dramatically. I used to eat a lot of carbs. Toast in the morning, sandwich at lunch time and either baked potatoe with something or pasta or rice in the evening. Not a lot of protein. I didn’t have big meals but all the wrong type of foods.

    I now don’t eat breakfast as I’ve never enjoyed it. I fast 2/3 days a week I prefer wholemeal granary bread and have this 2/3 times a week as a sandwich at lunchtime. Evening meal is often chicken, sometimes fish or maybe quorn mince or beef mince. I always have lots of vegetables I eat I portion of fruit most days. I have potatoes 2/3 times a week. No pasta since January or rice. I occasionally have omelette for lunch or dinner. So better choices all around. I have a couple of nuts everyday that I am not fasting normally I Brazil nut and a walnut. Fruit and youghurt is a favourite for fast day lunch, at the moment it is either cantaloupe melon, strawberries or kiwis. I think shortly peaches will be added to that.

    I feel better for changing what I eat and know that the weight will come off, it may take another year or so but I know I will get there.

    As you are calculating weight in KG I assume you are not in the UK. I am not quite sure what kefir yoghurt is.

    Does your husband keep fasting for two days to keep his sugar down or is he still trying to lose weight?

    Ginette

    I forgot to say I too am extremely great full to Dr M, I think he may have saved a few lives lives and changed thousands more….

    Thanks Dr M.

    Ginette

    Hi again Ginette
    I am in Australia. I think Dr M has saved hundreds of lives.
    You sound as if you know what you are doing. Well done.
    Mr P fasts to keep his own insulin working properly. He only weighs 67kg (down from 100 kg 2 years ago),so does not need to lose weight. He really finds the fasting is the key to low bs and insulin sensitivity. As I said, he tests his bs every morning and adjusts his food patterns accordingly. If elevated at all, he simply stops eating until lunch or dinner.
    Kefir is different to yoghurt. It is fermented milk made with “kefir grains”. Simple to make, excellent for gut flora. I also make full cream yoghurt for desserts. Hope this helps. Purple

    Hi Purple

    I bought a yoghurt maker a few years ago from a car boot sale. I have never used it. Maybe I should give it a go.

    Yes I think I know what I am doing. I do have occasional treats but I enjoy them and don’t overindulge. I avoid processed foods 98 percent of the time. So far I have had weight loss every week apart from one. That can’t be bad. I have never gained as if I go out for dinner and have a dessert I tend to have an extra fast day. This way I can take it in my stride. I only weigh once a week now.

    I do like some cheese occasionally and tend to have this with an omlette.

    I am putting off buying new clothes until I really have to as it will be an expensive business. I have blouses that are different sizes from before I put the weight on. I don’t wear trousers as they don’t suit me at the moment, I only need to worry about the skirts. I do wear an elastic waist band on these but I know that in a couple of months I shall have to buy smaller ones.

    What a nice thought.

    I am glad that your husband is managing to be in control of his insulin. Many people do not seem to want to try and help themselves. I am not including the people posting here of course.

    A quick hello to you Krishna and PJBR, I hope you are having a good week.

    Ginette

    Dear Ginette & PJBR,

    Hope you’re rocking. Last week I went and did some medical checks to see in what state I’m currently. Did the “Lipid count” check and found that my LDL (bad cholesterol), VLDL & TGL are pretty good in control 🙂 and my HDL (good cholesterol) is just at average (need to increase it) and overall cholesterol is pretty good (below 150). Only thing to worry is about my Hemoglobin level (13.9) which is at the verge of bare minimum. I need to work on this. Before I started this weight loss, I was having high cholesterol and doc’s told me that it’s in danger zone. Now, its in better range.

    Couple of things I wanted to share with you, rather, take your opinion on. All this last week I’ve been going through Dr. Fung’s website (IDM) and was going through all his posts. Infact in the office I’ve been reading these posts from the couple of days as I’m so addicted to get as much knowledge as possible.

    One thing what he says, and seems pretty logical is, there’s no point in counting calories as that’s not what it meant for our bodies as they doesn’t make sense. What does make sense, is the foods that we eat versus the Insulin Sensitivity/Insulin Resistance/Insulin spike as this is what drives the Obesity/Weight(Fat) Loss. He also says about the BSW (Body Set Weight) and body acting like a thermostat rather than a scale. And he talks about how to set the BSW (by reducing the Insulin in body through peaks of feasting and fasting).

    1) What I’ve been thinking about is, if this is the case, why is that in IF here, they say that on the fasting days just take 1/4th of your normal calorie intake, since really calories doesn’t (shouldn’t) matter right?

    2) So, even though I take all my calories, but still make sure, my insulin spikes aren’t more or at control, I still should be able to lose weight (by changing the BSW) right?

    3) According to him, avoiding refined carbs and animal protein, which spikes the insulin levels (not just BS levels), the body should lose fat and reach the ideal body weight, set by BSW. Did anyone you know, tried this approach?

    4) PJBR, especially when you attended those sessions of fasting from one of the colleagues of Dr Fung did you had any such discussions over there?

    I greatly appreciate your thoughts and opinions in this.

    Hi Krishna

    Well bear in mind that these thoughts come from a non diabetic. As you know I like to research things. From what I have found in the past I would partially agree with Dr Fung. It is the food that matters, so it is no good having two Mars Bars of any chocolate bar on a fast day as this would really cause a problem with a sugar spike even though it would be within calories…… So you have to pay attention to the type of food that you eat. I also had read Dr Valders research and this is the one that I would go with. Reducing calories seems to work.

    Purples husband has lost 33kg and that has worked for him – it took him two years, your improvements have been due to this way of life.

    I hope you find your answer. I have tried many diets to lose weight before 5:2 the only one that was successful was many years ago a calorie controlled diet.

    I went onto slimming world years later and they told me I. Old eat as much as I wanted of certain food groups. So as much carbs as I wanted but with restricted protein or as much protein as I wanted but with restricted carbs. So I tended to go for the carb days…..I put on weight. This didn’t work for me. I did this diet twice and both times it didn’t work.

    So later as I have put on even more weight I decided to try 5:2. I must admit I didn’t really think it would work, maybe at the beginning it would be ok but not long term. Now 5 month later and never having put on ANY weight which is a first! I am starting to believe in the long term benefits. I have lost more weight than I did on the others and feel that I shall continue to do it.

    I hope that later on I shall get to a stage where I just have to maintain my loss.

    You know that this is working for you. Why change?

    Ginette

    Thanks Ginette. That makes more sense of what you’ve said. I was just eager to figure out whether really do calories matter or not, Or is it just the food type that matters.

    Hi Krishna

    For me carbohydrates don’t work so I try to limit them. This is only potatoes, pasta, rice, bread and sweet treats. I eat vegetables in abundance.

    That is not to say I avoid them completely. Fast days is normally fruit with or without youghurt for lunch and chicken and vegetables in the evening.

    My only aim is weight loss and health but I do not need to watch glucose levels. Mine when last measured was in the normal range.

    I do get tempted into foods that I need to limit and as long as I am mindful I feel this will be fine.

    I think you are doing well and you know what works for you. This is a long term plan not a quick fix. The quick fixes are counter productive I find and tend to end up in weight gain.

    A friend of mine did really well on a slimming world diet, she does this every year in the summer and then in the winter she puts on even more weight and every year she tells me she is heavier than the last year. I have told her about 5:2, I haven’t seen her this year since about a month after starting it. We occasionally speak on the phone. We are meeting for a meal in the next couple of weeks. I think and hope she will see a difference and this may encourage her. I have tried to encourage her but know from myself that it is important to want to change.

    You have been strong and driven to get as far as you have, don’t lose faith in 5:2 now. It will work, maybe not as quickly as you will like but the loss will be sustainable.

    How is Fast Beach going this week?

    Ginette

    Truly said Ginette, I agree with you.

    Out of the box, I was just curious to figure out, is it just the effect of fasting and/or restriction of calories do effect our weight loss in the long term. My FBD has been going on good. 2nd and 3rd week has been steady with just 1 kg of loss. Am at 69kgs and another 1 kg to lose to come to Normal weight range (according to BMI), so I’m waiting for that to see in my scale 🙂

    No news from PJBR yet. I guess she started her ADF this week.

    Hi Krishna

    Yes a great loss. I hope you see that next BMI level soon. I have had a carb and sweet tooth week. I am also having three fast days so I hope to undo any harm. I’m feeling a little stressed at the moment and this always affects how I eat.

    A really interesting article.

    Actor reveals how he gained more than a stone and developed fatty liver disease after eating low fat foods for 60 days… because they were packed with SUGAR
    http://dailym.ai/1QS0CVb

    Ginette

    Hi! I am back after a visit to Vancouver for our first grandchild’s graduation from her post secondary education. She spent one complete year studying to be a makeup artist. She is ready for anything from fashion to theatrical makeup. She did very well in her course and we are hopeful for her to do well using those talents to make a living. There are few “jobs” per se out there for makeup artists so she will have to sell her talents to someone willing to pay for them. I do hope that the school also taught how to pursue that. So….

    I have been celebrating and not fasting. I have been eating exceedingly well – by that I mean in high class restaurants. I have chosen foods according to my guidelines (except stealing french fries from my neighbour’s plate – they were such GOOD french fries) but I also snacked a lot – again foods acceptable, but non the less breaking a fast with frequent snacking is NOT good.

    It is very difficult to fast when you are away from home and have no tools to help.

    A recent article on Jason Fung’s blog suggested buying video’s of a recent LCHF conference in South Africa. Several experts in this food lifestyle are featured. I bought it and am finding it to be excellent. There is a lot to be learned from these people with a variety of backgrounds all with experience and knowledge in Low carbohydrate eating. Many have been seeing fasting as an adjunct to the food choices as beneficial.

    Krishna, to answer your question to me: Yes Dr. Fung does talk about body set weight and about thermostat but only as an explanation of how the body works. One does not need to do anything to make it work for you. It just is.
    He definitely is in favour of lowering one’s carbohydrate intake. His guideline suggests (as I recall) 0-10% of the intake for those wishing to lose weight or cure diabetes, to be carbohydrate. My understanding would be that the vegetables allowed would account for that 0-10%. Later when the goals are met, that could rise to 20%. My understanding is that then fruits and starches could be added to the intake to make up for this increase. It is not much, it would seem.
    He does NOT say no animal meat, but does say a MODERATE amount of protein. He says that low carbohydrate, high fat is possible with vegetarian diet but it is more difficult.
    Every body is different. His guidelines are that – guidelines, they are not specific, until it comes to the individual. For example, I have been told that I am VERY diabetic, and that even though I have VERY low carbohydrate intake (NO starch, NO fruit i.e. at close to 0% carbohydrates) I still am not losing weight very fast at all, nor do I have lower blood sugar readings without drugs. Being on the program, advice about nutrition specific for me can be given. It too is a part of my own learning about how my own body is responding.
    Intermittent fasting can be done many, many ways. MM’s way, with counting calories is only one way.
    Jason Fung says fasting is to be no calorie fluids but has fats added. ( now that seems quite different to me)
    Krishna, I hope I have answered your questions.
    You have done very well with your fasting efforts, however you are doing it. Sometimes, I think ” If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”!

    PS I do NOT count calorie, never have, never will.

    PSPS When on LCHF ones does NOT have to count calories.

    The calorie in, calorie out theory has been debunked by many, and I agree.

    Hi:

    Thought I would add some information and food for thought.

    First, the HFLC diet has been around for a long time. It was first popularized as the Atkins Diet in 1972, but was around well before then.

    Although I have no idea where Dr. Fung’s program ‘came from’, it is basically a combination of the original Atkins Diet and a fasting protocol used by Dr. Goldhamer for over 30 years. Dr. Goldhamer has reported for years that he has reversed type 2 diabetes via longer term fasting, combined with a plant based diet, just as Dr. Atkins reported he had reversed the type 2 diabetes of over 5000 patients using his Atkins Diet. Dr. Fung realized that by starting with a longer term fast, and using intermittent fasting in conjunction with the HFLC diet, he could speed up the reversal of the diabetes. I am glad he is continuing the educational process and letting people know they are not doomed to suffer from diabetes until they die.

    As for ‘calories in, calories out’ – well, it is still true. Dr. Fung even writes in his blog that calories in, calories out is ‘technically’ true (can there be any other ‘truth’ when it comes to science?).

    The thought that it is not true seems to come from the fact that on the HFLC diet you can eat what you want, not count calories and still lose weight. People seem to think that there is something ‘special’ about the diet that contradicts the calories in/out theory.

    However, what most people have never done, because they don’t have to, is count calories when on the HFLC diet. Research was done on the induction phase of the Atkins diet (20 g. of carbs or less per day, all of the fat/protein foods you want to eat), and when they counted the calories eaten, instead of the carbs, they found that people were eating 1500 or fewer calories per day (of course, it varied by person). You hear it all the time by people on the diet – they get full and don’t get hungry again quickly, so they don’t eat. That is why people on the HFLC diet lose weight – they are on a continuous low calorie diet.

    That leads into the ‘set point theory’. Note the word ‘theory’ – it has never been proven. However, there is some scientific basis for the concept that the body can regulate its food intake – if it is eating certain foods.

    Humans developed eating fat and protein – lots of fat, some protein. The amount of carbs they ate in the form of fruits, berries and nuts, was very small. As a result, the body developed ‘sensors’ that monitored the body’s intake of fat and protein (not carbs) and those sensors told the brain when fat and protein were coming in. The brain took note, and if it felt the body needed more, signaled that fact by making the body ‘hungry’. But, if it felt the body had enough food, it said ‘I’m full’, and eating stopped. These sensors are still in place and operative, so when someone goes on the HFLC diet, they eat until they are full and stop. If they are overweight, this usually means they stop eating at a caloric intake level lower than their TDEE – and they lose weight.

    The low fat high carb diet was insidious because it ‘bypassed’ the body’s sensors. There being no sensors that picked up carb intake, the body can eat carb after carb and the brain will not know about it. So it keeps saying ‘I’m hungry, get more food’, and the body will continue to eat. This becomes even worse than just getting fat as a result because of the way the body processes carbs – and now we get into blood sugar spikes, high insulin production to counter the spikes and all that comes with that process.

    So now I see people returning to the Atkins diet, this time not as rebels but as followers of main stream thought. It has several things going against it as a long term diet – two are critical. First, it is expensive to follow. Fat and protein cost considerably more over time than do carbs, so it is not a ‘cheap’ diet. Second, people trying to begin and stay on the diet after decades of being told to eat carbs have to deal with carb addiction. As people on the HFLC diet slip a couple of carbs into their diet (treats) the addiction kicks in and more and more ‘treats’ seem to make their way into the diet, until the person is back eating like they used to eat. People post this chain of events on this site all of the time. It is hard fighting an addiction.

    That is where fasting comes in. Fasting is proven to work with any type of diet. In addition to the two days of severely reduced eating (which lowers all intake), by focusing on calories the remaining non diet days carb intake is also restricted despite the ‘lack of sensors’ to indicate when to stop eating. Research shows that not only leads to weight loss, but improved blood work. If longer term fasts are begun, then, perhaps, other benefits may be realized.

    Just food for thought.

    Hi:

    Although I know people following this thread are more in tune with HFLC than many, I thought I would post this evidence that the health police (at least in the U.S.) are abandoning the low fat diet and restrictions on the intake of fats. It is interesting to hear this kind of talk from a noted nutritionist: “We really need to sing it from the rooftops that the low-fat diet concept is dead,” Mozaffarian said. “There are no health benefits to it.” http://www.webmd.com/diet/20150626/fat-no-longer-the-focus-of-new-us-dietary-guidelines?src=RSS_PUBLIC

    A long time coming. It is incredibly sad what the long term damage has been from the government and its doctors pushing the low fat diet.

    simcoeluv,
    good description.

    I do see that Dr Fung mentioned in this blog “Intensivedietarymanagement”, that Calories theory, CRaP (Calorie Reduction as Primary), doesn’t make much sense, when it comes to reduce the weight(permanently). Makes more sense to me, in his posts, that, not all calories are one and the same, and so it just doesn’t make sense with this theory. It add’s more, when we think of how people in previous generations, without any knowledge of calories or their counting, use to lead a healthy life. And how much practical/feasible is for someone to count calories, all their life, to maintain their stable weight.

    Since, 100 cals of fat (from cheese/butter etc), or protein, isn’t equal to 100 cals of coke, CRaP theory, doesn’t put focus on how those cals effect the body (in terms of metabolism, digestion etc). What he said about TEE also makes sense, that, if I start reducing cals in automatically my body is making sure it aligns for the cals out, like feeling more cold (due to less food and so thermogenesis etc).

    The basic difference between what he said and what is out there is that, in CRaP theory, we set many variables as constants (like TEE) and go with the assumption of lowering inward calories, but, according to him, once Input Cals decrease, the body makes sure that, it relatively adjusts the TEE, body temp, bodies voluntary activities to burn more cals like doing exercise etc, lessens and adjusts according to the input, unless & until we voluntarily do the activities to burn more energy. This is the reason why, with low cals/no cals, many of us, wont’ be in an un-voluntarily mood to involve in high intensity activities.

    Till now, I reduced around 31kgs (most of which, around, 18kgs in the last 3-4 months), primarily reducing the cals along with fasting, i.e. eating only in a stipulated window of 8hrs and fasting for the rest 16 hrs. So, am really not in a position, as of now, to tell, whether its the fasting mechanism (where insulin is getting more sensitive) or just the reducing in cals, has what made my weight loss.

    I’m more of a seeker here rather than a judge. I love to learn more information, get more knowledge. For me exploring is my favorite part, as it’s in my blood, being a sun-sign Scorpio.

    Hope I’ll do more study and put my views here.

    Interesting discussions. Mr P took 18 months to get totally off all insulin and Metformin. He is a very low weight now (middle of healthy range) but finds he really needs to fast twice a week to keep his blood sugar steady. We have just spent 5 weeks in Nth America (great food in Vancouver). We did no proper fasts, gained no weight, but selected food that was low on starchy carbs and Mr P skipped breakfast and sometimes lunch if his bs was slightly elevated. This is the advantage of daily bs testing. We also weighed every day to monitor.
    Counting calories, initially, gives one a “feel” for the value of some foods. Leafy veg and some protein (including full fat) are satiating. Empty carbs are not. If I can fill up on a huge plate of veg soup or salad and fish as my only meal and not require snacks then that is the food to choose.
    As diabetics, record your bloodsugars and what you eat. You’ll quickly work out quantity, frequency and type of foods that keep your body healthy. It isn’t magic, but takes self awareness and control.
    Good luck folk. P

    It’s interesting and indeed sad if it is really accurate. I wonder if lifestyle changes had less effect because the people could still cut calories and lose weight but not reduce carbs enough?
    The results showed that more weight was lost after surgery. Minus 5% for life intervention and average -20% for surgery. I have no medical training but that sounds very relevant to me.

    This is the article in JAMA Surgery:
    http://archsurg.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=2362353&resultClick=3#Conclusions

    I couldn’t open Simcoe’s link, but just wanted to say ‘hi’ Speedy. How’s Holland? And, how are you going? PVE

    Hi PVE 🙂
    Holland is hot and humid 🙁 So am I too!
    Struggling with this weight thing. Today an odd idea occurred to me; to be nice to my body! It’s a weird idea to have at 56 ‘Look after your body!’. Better late than never? 🙂

    How are you doing? Is it all going well? xx
    The link Simcoe posted is to a newspaper article based on the link I posted. It’s a headline slant as always with the papers. They seem to have ignored the difference in weight lost by the two methods so are implying that weight lost by dieting isn’t so effective as that lost by surgery.
    xx

    Winter has hit with a vengeance here. Enjoy your summer! We have maintained our goal weights for well over a year now and Mr P has been off diabetes meds completely since last year.
    I’m glad you are starting to listen to your body, Speedy. We are the only ones that know what is good for us. 5:2 and self awareness is the trick;) Enjoy life, mate. P 🙂

    Hi all,

    I am sure Dr. Fung would agree that surgery will work to reverse diabetes type2 but would suggest that
    fasting is as effective and less painful.(and maybe less stupid)

    But there are people who just do not want to bother,or do not want to give up their lifestyle or are fearful of fasting or believe they just could not fast. I am sure you have talked with people who have voiced those points of view. I sure have. In fact I have not met one who said “Hey what a great idea, I think I’ll try that”. The only ones who I know that are committed are all of you great contributers to this forum.

    Thanks to this group of people for all your support.

    Hi All

    I thought it was about time I showed my face here. Weight loss a bit slow at the moment but I still lost 4lbs last month, so as long as I can stick to this as a minimum I am still going the right way,

    Krishna

    Are you still on FBD and how are you doing? Have you managed to lose every week?

    PJBR how are you doing?

    I came across this article before and I thought it was really interesting. It is about Hiit and someone who has been doing it for two and a half years.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3151376/I-ve-THREE-MINUTES-exercise-week-two-years-never-fitter-Vince-initially-scoffed-high-intensity-exercise-says-s-changed-life.html

    Hi Purple, Speedy and simcoe

    Ginette

    Hi All,

    I am doing fine thank you very much for asking, Ginette.

    The only thing that is wrong lately is that I cannot get through a day of fasting without breaking the fast. NOT GOOD. I would like to do a longer fast but have not been successful. I have not weighed myself for a while so do not know how that is, but sufficient to say, there is no “peeling off”.
    Though I have resurrected some clothes that I have not been able to wear for a few years and some people say that my weight loss is visible. I guess I am just impatient.

    My blood pressure is normal now with no medications to help to lower it. Yay!

    Last night we went to a friend’s house for dinner. Good up to dessert. Dessert was a very delicious Tiramisu. This is the first dessert I have had since I started Dr. Fung’s program. (We were told that we could have dessert once a week so I had a butter tart {quintessentially Canadian} that first week with disastrous results! So nothing more until last night) Not SO bad. My blood sugar this am is the same as it has been – very steady for the last several days.

    Thank you for the exercise link. Being a fan of Dr. M M I am aware of HIT and try to do it. I am really not good with exercise so am not consistent. If only I could change my bad habits. That would be one and I’m NOT going to divulge to you any more of my bad habits.!!

    I wish everyone good luck this week. Thank you for being here and supporting me in this journey.

    Hi PJBR

    Well don’t feel alone in your difficult times. I have struggled the last two or three weeks. I am really stressed at the moment and that always makes me want to eat. I am doing 3 fast days a week at the moment. This has stopped me putting any weight on and I have lost a very small amount.

    I am going to start writing it all down again next week in a bid to make myself do better. I hope this stress is temporary. I am really not in the right mood just now. As long as I don’t put on and have a small loss this should be enough really, I suppose we all get those times when things are tough.

    I am pleased that your blood sugar was stable after the result. This was a big bonus. Did you see they measured how quickly he got rid off the sugar out of his blood. His blood pressure was really good.

    I am pleased that yours is normal with no medications as well. My blood pressure pills give me vivid dreams which combined with other reasons have turned into nightmares. I also find I am really hot all of the time, this is only really since this pills as well. I am seeing a consultant to change them on August 11th so it will be interesting to see what happens then.

    I have suffered from stress since events last year which resulted in me being made redundant. I then had serious family matters which are ongoing and very stressful, so I think a lot of mine is stress related. I have lost nearly four stone and you think that it would have made a difference!

    I think we all help one another through this. Our efforts together make us stronger.

    Ginette

    Hi Ginette & PJBR,

    I’m not doing that good, in fact, I’m a bit over confused and thrown away. Last week has been a bit difficult for me. My BS levels, God should know the reason, have elevated again, after being constant since April. My fasting is coming to 110 and my Random (2 hours after food) is coming to 130 now. Previously they’ve been just 90 and 100 consecutively. I agree that on my son’s birthday party, I’ve been eating a bit of cake and desserts and some chocolates here and there, but these readings still doesn’t fit into my knowledge base.

    I’ve been trying to figure out suddently, why such huge fluctuation out of the blue, after being pretty constant (normal) for the past 3.5 months. I’m no more doing FBD now.

    Due to this low calorie intake, I’m frequently encountering mild fainting, due to the fact that, the blood is not flowing as soon as possible, when I usually wake up fast from the sitting/sleeping position. This is causing mild fainting. So, I have been eating 2-3 meals/day in fact bit more. Now, from the full last week, there’s been no change in my weight, even though I’ve been feasting a bit more. Constant at 68-69 kgs.

    Please let me know yours thoughts on why this sudden increase in BS level would have been.

    Hi Krishna
    If it helps, my husband’s blood sugar levels only ever rise now when he has overindulged on sugar. Cake, apple cider, beer, sugary desserts will do it every time. Wine does not have the same effect. Skipping breakfast the next day, and lunch if it was very high, immediately rectifies the problem.
    He still fasts twice weekly after 2 1/4 years and more than a year off all insulin. P

    Hi PVE,

    Thanks for the update. I really was so frustrated and confused over this sudden change. That’s a good insight for me to look into. I will also see if the same technique can help me and will keep you posted 🙂

    Krishna,
    Have you been checking your blood pressure? Are you on Blood pressure medication? It sounds as if it is low due to the fact of fasting and weight loss. Check it out, see your doctor. I found that I had slight dizziness and checked my blood pressure and am not longer taking any medication for blood pressure.
    Remember, this diet is very powerful medication and not only lowers blood sugars but blood pressure too.
    Blood sugars can increase due to many factors besides sugar intake ( and the blood sugars can remain high for a long time after sugar intake with diabetics). Stress whether psychological (e.g. worry over out blood sugar readings or relationships) or physical like an infection or a cold, can cause an increase in blood sugar readings.
    I agree with PVE, though, it is likely due to the overindulgence at the birthday festivities.
    Surely they will come down with time. Then again fasting might help do it quicker.

    Ginette,
    I am sorry about your stress level. It seems that it has been high for a very long time. Are you getting any help for it? Is the cause of the stress being resolved? Sometimes a talk therapist can help you see your way through it.
    I do hope the immediate stress is resolved soon.

    Just a quickly to say hello 🙂
    I’m having a difficult time with getting started again – but I’m really just hanging on in there till I get that urge to start again. I know it will come!
    Hi Ginette and all reading. 🙂

    Hi Krishna

    I hope you manage to resolve your problem with BS. I really don’t know much about this and so will leave it to those better informed.

    How wonderful if it can be helped by Purples idea of just skipping breakfast, well worth a try.

    Hi PJBR

    Yes is has been high but manageable for some while, this is just something else that happened out of the blue, I am taking advice of how to deal with it and I am currently having cognitive behavioural therapy.

    Blood pressure is a problem due to this. I am hoping that things will settle down soon. To stop myself eating stupid things I may even do 3:4 at least until I get back into routine. This will limit the time I am not fasting and I hope to even lose a bit of weight. I feel as if I have got to start somewhere.

    Ginette

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