That looks interesting Cinque. I’ve just been reading too ( in denial about lawn mowing). This article was referenced in the one on intermittent fasting that you put on Page 1 of this thread, the article by most of the big names, including Dr M, Walter Longo, Krista Varady et al.

It looks at hunger and circadian rhythms, explains why we so often get the “evening munchies”. Interestingly it also says that you get hunger for particular foods ( never green veg😊). I’ve pasted the PDF as the article is free. If you can’t open it, shorten the header to the reference number.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3655529/pdf/nihms435282.pdf

I like that research Cinque. We can have five lapses a week!

For most people eating has become a form of social entertainment. We no longer eat because we are hungry. You can see it in many of the posts on this forum. “I had good intentions but there was this party that I had to go to. Or a friend from out of town dropped by and we had lunch etc etc.” So social activity and eating are now one in the same. If I have a social activity and it happens to fall on my fast day, I still go to the occasion but I don’t eat or drink (alcohol). I still socialise, I just don’t eat. My friends now know this and don’t get upset when I politely refuse a piece of chocolate cake, or a nice wine, some even tease me by making Mmmmmmm sounds as they eat their deserts. All good fun.

I always feel like such a killjoy when I try to explain that exercise thing to people. Just doesn’t work that way.

Hi K-Lo:

Yup.

Another device to ignore is the body fat indicator on scales. Research shows they are so inaccurate and inconsistent as to be virtually worthless.

Hi K-Lo:

Research shows not an indicator for even direction.

It’s not research, but I remember a lady on a site that was all ready to lose weight with 5:2. She bought a scale with a body fat indicator. After week one, she was posting asking why her body fat was rising even though she was ‘doing everything right’. After week two, when she admittedly had lost some weight, she was complaining her body fat was going up even more. After a third week of increasing her body fat, she quit 5:2 because it did not work. Along the way, she admitted her body fat was varying significantly by day. Of course, body fat does not vary much on a daily basis if it is being measured accurately.

In any event, when it comes to weight loss I believe the body fat percentage will take care of itself as weight is lost. I believe it is hard enough for the average person to lose weight, much less to try to manage, or even worry about, body fat percentage along the way.

Hi:

Well, we can close down this website and go back to eating as usual. Nothing can be done. We are wasting our time trying to lose weight. It is OK to weigh whatever weight you are.

After you lose weight, you will automatically eat over your TDEE and regain it all and more. The research on the biggest losers is compelling.

I also have a nice bridge for sale at a bargain price. I’ll even take my payment in potato chips and beer!

…but doesn’t he also believe that one can reset the set point?

simcoeluv, yep,…he does. Here’s a glimpse from his website, where he talks about how to get past Body Set Weight, or BSW. https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/smash-the-fat-calories-part-xi/

HappyNow,
Are you sure? Dr Fung does not have a chance against Simco’s authoritative statements! We all would be lost without Simco’s firm guidance. LOL! 😀

Exercise is an interesting issue, isn’t it? If we are focusing mainly on weight loss then it seems clear that it isn’t on its own really very helpful. However, there seem to be some connected issues. One is of course blood pressure, where regular exercise seems to have been shown to be helpful. The other is in the management of sugars and triglycerides in the blood and the production, or over production of insulin, which is part of the obesity issue. This team have done a couple of studies of these areas: here’s one. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24848492 (the whole paper is free access, click the link below the abstract)
Keeping insulin steady rather than spiking seems to help reduce hunger cycles, so something that helps such a process may well help us to remain more easily on a diet, especially if we are continuing to eat sweet things with fructose in on our non fast days. ( I must say that I’ve found it helpful to come right off sweet stuff other than fruit, and that only higher fibre fruits.) The team used fructose I believe partly to limit the study variables, and partly because high fructose corn syrup is considered a problem additive to food. So exercise may well help where other sugars in the diet are concerned.

Hi Cold:

I’m pretty sure I was one of the first, if not the first, poster on this site recommending that people review Dr. Fung’s lecture series – even before he became ‘famous’. His personal review of the existing research with an end goal of finding a better way to treat his patients is nothing but admirable and informative, and the resulting ‘treatment program’ that combined treatments that have been effective in treating Type 2 for decades (fasting and HFLC) is just as effective but much more ‘doable’ than either program individually. His efforts to publicize the results of his research review seem to be making headway, and I hope they proceed much further than they have. I am doing everything I can to ‘spread the word’. However, my M.D. acquaintances still brush off the program as a fad and view Dr. Fung as just another internet quack trying to make a buck on a worthless diet (just like another famous quack – Dr. Atkins). The medical profession is pretty slow to adopt new ideas. In the U.S., anyway, any time they vary from the ‘accepted’ treatment protocol and something goes wrong, they get sued. I guess in other countries, if they vary from the government mandated protocols they get fired. Doctors prefer not to have either problem. I personally feel every M.D should be required to watch Dr. Fung’s lecture series (or read his book, assuming it contains the same or more information). If they did, they would have 1000 times more information on nutrition than any of them currently do and could treat their patients with a bit more knowledge and, perhaps, fewer worthless pills.

As for the set point theory, it remains just that – a theory. There are alternative explanations that also can explain the results of the research sited. Research on the topic is only in its infancy. At this point, the jury is out. It is not central to Dr. Fung’s thesis, and if it is proven there are other explanations for the observed results his basic findings and results will not be undermined. But it can be unpopular to disagree with the current reigning guru of the day (not that Dr. Fung does not deserve guru status!).

By the way, did any of you notice that Dr. Fung pointed out that the research that formed the basis of the current ‘probiotic’ trend has been retracted because it was fraudulent – made up? I believe something similar happened to the research that started the ‘gluten sensitivity’ and gluten free trend (not made up, just wrong). But if you don’t follow the subject, and just depend on what is in front of you today from the internet or where ever, you may not know there is other information out there that might otherwise modify your view on whatever the subject may be.

As I have said before (and I truly live by the example), there was a time when you could have attended the greatest university on earth and studied under the greatest professors that had ever lived and completely understood what they were teaching you – and you would have graduated absolutely and positively knowing that the earth was flat. Things are not always as stated, and things change.

But for right now, on this weight loss site, I believe the less you eat, the more you lose!

Good Luck!

Simco,
I am so happy for you that you obtain all of that great knowledge! And I am so grateful for you teaching us, simple folks, all of your wisdom.
As usual – you are soooo right: “The less you eat, the more you lose” – come on, who could argue here?!
Good luck!

Thanks, Cinque: That was our beloved lab to a T. Kobie. Overweight, and always hungry, but a big bone structure. He had cancer in various internal areas and the biggest spleen the Vet had ever seen when we reluctantly put him down at age 12 with no good prognosis with medical treatment. He was the most neurotic dog I’ve ever had. Chewed through a (down) quilt, sheet set, mattress pad, and into the mattress one day when I was at work. Separation anxiety they told us. For an example. Plenty of other chewing damage spread throughout the house and throughout the years. And you know what? I have never loved a dog more, because he was wonderful with the little grand kids. And he was courageous when he thought we were being harmed. Loved him. Miss him still, and always will. I still can’t bring myself to get another dog.

Yes, a fascinating article. There’s one sentence in it too that suggests that the training treats actually increase this problem over the genetic issue for 25% of labs. Wonder if that’s in the research paper itself in more detail?

My first dog was a black lab, I loved her dearly. Really appreciate how you feel, Northern Dawn. My most recent dog was a Saluki who lived to be 15, dying last year, a high age for that breed. She was always slim, in youth to the point where I worried and spoke to the vet ( who reassured me of her health), and in old age I had trouble keeping weight on her as she would eat half her food then walk away. I got crafty with her favourite snacks between meals (cat food on toast anyone?) and the snacking helped her put weight on a bit, a message for me I felt, though at the time I did little about my own snacking. Both my salukis have been such a contrast foodwise to other dogs I’ve had. But I fear the general message is that while genes count it’s also what you do, in this case with food.

Just been reading the post from the website above about Leptin and the way that having lots of triglycerides in the blood seems to block Leptin from the brain, creating hunger.
https://proteinpower.com/drmike/2007/06/17/leptin-low-carb-and-hunger/

Hi big:

AMEN!

He’s a youtube clip from Eric Berg. Pretty easy to follow language and basically saying the same thing as Jason Fung.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpedthIpUnY