This topic contains 991 replies, has 70 voices, and was last updated by Cinque 1 year, 7 months ago.
Hi penquin and Cinque. Penquin, just to complicate matters the BBC have two food sites. BBCGoodFood and BBC-Food. the latter mentions the low carb programme but both concentrate on recipes in various ways. Cinque, yes you found the correct link, sorry for any confusion hope the site helps.
Good luck out there.
On one of these forums we were discussing how much energy is stored in the liver and how/when it is accessed. I can’t remember the forum, so here is a really interesting summary of something I read since about where our energy is stored and what organs use which energy source:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK22436/
In summary, the liver stores about 1200 calories, in equal amount of fats, sugars, and proteins. Muscles store much more energy, both fats and sugars but lots of protein. Fat cells store enormous amounts of energy as fats but we all know that. See Table 30.1
Very simplistic summary of energy use:
The brain and red blood cells primarily use sugars for energy.
Muscles use fats when resting and sugars when active.
The heart mostly runs on fats. And the liver on protein.
Apologies if the summary is a bit off, but its quite complex and I need to read it again!
No idea how this generalised data applies to individual people, as presumably athletes and couch-potatoes have very different profiles!
Good find CJ. I wouldn’t describe 2 days of fasting as “prolonged starvation”. Starvation has a very specific meaning and in my opinion it is not two days worth of fasting. Starvation cuts in when you are bouncing on the minimum levels of fat reserves, about 2-4%. At this level you are unable to access any more fat (easily). This is when your body starts consuming protein as its primary energy source as it has no other option. That is starvation mode. Your brain will swap over to ketones quite readily after about 2-3 days. Or a lot sooner in fact if you are keto adapted. Ketone bodies are able to cross the blood brain barrier and supply the brain with energy.
The press are reporting that the TV carb programme is being criticised. A Registered Associate Nutritionist thinks that eating the beige carbs isn’t a problem because we have been doing it for millennia and there is no evidence that they increase the risk of obesity or diabetes. The programme is accused of encouraging carbphobia.
So I googled RANs. “Typically they earned a degree in a nutritional or food science in the last three years and are working within a team with relevant professional oversight or monitoring. They can prove an underpinning scientific knowledge but have yet to acquire significant experience of the practical application of this knowledge.”
I think real starvation can start well before the 2-4% level of body fat, especially for women. Even in men the brain and nervous system is mostly fat and makes up around 4% of the body weight, with the brain accounting for about 1/2 of that. Still even men often take their body fat below 10% without any real issues. I’m roughly 16% body fat and I have a lot I could lose before real starvation kicked in.
The brain never fully swaps over to ketones but the amount of glucose required drops to around 1/3 of what is required if no ketones are available. Some parts of the body don’t have microconidia and therefore have to use glucose like red blood cells, parts of the brain and kidneys. However muscles can also consume fatty acids and this probably also leads to elevated glucose levels. I’ve been thinking about this because I often have a higher fasting blood glucose that goes down after eating. Where does the glucose come from? Most likely it is more about the glucose not being used as much. However, I haven’t seen any studies to back that up. Still a higher fasting blood glucose and losing body fat seems like a contradiction.
When I was in the states and eating the SAD, salt seemed to be an issue. 10+ years ago the first intervention my doctor had me try was a low salt diet. It did seem to help with my blood pressure a little, I think exercise later though helped a lot more. Now living in Japan the diet is really high in salt compared to the typical American diet. Guess what … my blood pressure was even on the low side my last doctor visit. I gave up on trying to keep the salt intake down over 5 years ago and my health has improved since then.
I’m not advocating eating processed food which does have high amounts of salt. However salt may not be a bad as other things.
“Low-sodium diet might not lower blood pressure”
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/04/170425124909.htm
Interesting article on salt. I had read somewhere that humans tend to control their salt intake to a very similar amount if unrestricted, something like 7 grams a day (but I can’t remember the number) and we seem to have a natural cut off. If you don’t eat processed foods, then you can add a lot of salt to your food before you get to that level.
I know its just anecdote, but my blood pressure has reduced from the 130s/80s to 110s/70s in about a year, and I add salt to my food (and feel very guilty about it!). Fasting, weight loss and a plant-based diet worked well for me. Actually, thinking about it, I only saw a big improvement in blood pressure when I changed my diet to plant-based. Maybe it was because I am probably eating more magnesium and potassium, which may help control blood pressure, according to the article. Who knows, as long as it works!
Reading todays “The Times” I came across a full page advert for No1 Rosemary Water. The advertising blurb makes much of the fact that in Acciaroli, Italy, there is an abundance of Rosemary and healthy 100yr olds – Coincidence? The suggestion being that if you drink this Rosemary Water then you may live a long and healthy life. (Goodness knows what the cost of a full page advert is.)
Being of a slightly cynical nature I checked Google Scholar on the health benefits of Rosemary extract and yes some of the research shows possible positive health outcomes of Rosemary extract. I then checked the Rosemary site and discovered that buying this stuff, in sparkling or still water form is a less than healthy £3.95 per litre in Tetra box form (must buy 6 boxes).
A 750 ml bottle of sparkling is also £3.95 per bottle. Living a long and healthy Rosemary life is an expensive business it seems so I will not drink to that.
Looking out of my kitchen window at my Rosemary shrub I thought I will stick to the tried and tested, and extremely cheap alternative of using my Rosemary in my cooking in its natural form.
Good luck to you all out there.
Could be interesting, but also LOL at this:
“The findings come with some hefty caveats. Based on the researchers’ own manipulation check that involved asking participants to say which of several statements best described their thought processes during the runs, the participants did not actually engage in cognitive reappraisal during the cognitive reappraisal run. That said, the researchers reconsidered the statements they’d previously identified as reflecting cognitive reappraisal and decided they weren’t really appropriate – at least not to in relation to how they’d framed cognitive reappraisal in their instructions. On further reflection, they felt the runners’ choice of descriptive statements did suggest they had practiced the strategy adequately after all. They may be right, but these post-hoc gymnastics make the study findings feel less convincing.”
Coffee drinkers in UK study found to have 10% to 15% lower death rate over 10 years.
https://amp.9news.com.au/article/20ef3899-24e9-42dc-a828-d925acaa2692
http://time.com/5354498/is-intermittent-fasting-healthy/
Don’t think that there is anything new here that isn’t already known.
I do like their alternate phrase for IF – “intermittent energy restriction”. For most of us who actually eat a few calories on our fasting days, it’s a much more accurate description of our behaviour. Although I know there are a few of you who do actually do a proper water fast.
Could probiotics cause ‘brain fog’ and bloating?
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/amp/322712
Have been recently making and devouring my own greek yoghurt (far creamier and tastier than sold in shops) and was just about to buy some kefir grains. Doh! Will keep making the yoghurt because it is just too tasty with nuts, seeds and frozen berries. And tread warily with the kefir.
@onel. Short answer is NO! that study was looking at people whose small intestine is not function as it should. Simple carbs are broken down and absorbed by the small intestine. If it is not then the carbs go through to the large intestines and then the bacteria have a party. This is an abnormal situation and there is an underlying problem present. Is there anything to suggest that you suffer from short bowel syndrome? If not then keep doing what you are doing.
Thanks guys. Hardly a random sample, and the implied conclusions are an over-reach. I did research more after posting and came to similar conclusions.
In general it does make more intuitive sense to me to trust and prefer simple methods that humans have successfully used for thousands of years (like kefir) – over the standard array of ultra-processed products on our supermarket shelves.
Study on weight loss through habit-based interventions. Two approaches – habit forming and habit breaking – both succeeded in clinically significant weight loss after 12 months. Interestingly there was not only weight loss for both during the 12 week intervention period, but further weight loss over the remaining period until the 12 month measure.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41366-018-0067-4
https://theconversation.com/ten-habits-of-people-who-lose-weight-and-keep-it-off-101387
And here are 12 month results of a different study of fasting/calorie restriction diets:
The 12 month study wasn’t true fasting, as people being tested were allowed to eat 500 calories on fast days and from the results: “Participants in the alternate-day fasting group ate more than prescribed on fast days, and less than prescribed on feast days, while those in the daily calorie restriction group generally met their prescribed energy goals.” In fact the eating on fast days varied from 500 to 1500 calories. So they were mostly comparing two forms of calorie restriction. Kind of a disappointing study.
Also it doesn’t talk about when they eat … it is possible some of the people on the calorie restricted diet were fasting more than the ADF group!
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/food-plans-that-replace-carbohydrates-with-protein-and-fat-are-giving-wrong-advice-says-new-study
Unfortunately doesn’t have link to actual study.
25 year study Suggests that a strict low carb diet, which uses high amounts of animal protein & fat may shorten your life span. Using vegetable products to replace animal ones may be healthier.
Study may be influenced by selection bias (i.e. people embarking on the diet may have health issues driving that choice). Other factors may be prevalent as well.
Hi
This is the link to the actual study if anyone is interested in the details
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(18)30135-X/fulltext
☺️
It would also be nice to know what inspired the various groups to embark upon (& maintain) their various diet plans.
Offhand, people don’t start a strict diet without some health, ethical, or other concerns – all of which influence the final outcome (not to mention ability to strictly adhere to same). A 50-55% carb intake, apart from other info, could be considered an average “diet”.?
Interesting blog post with most of the information taken from a book referenced at the end. https://idmprogram.com/the-shocking-origins-of-vegetable-oil-garbage/
https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/7119922/cheese-red-meat-good-for-heart/
Those who reported eating the highest levels of unprocessed meat (including red meat) (120g) and dairy (3 serves) were observed to have a 25% lower levels of early death – and similarly lower levels of fatal heart attacks.
Suggested that warning people off these foods is unsupported, and also counterproductive because it causes people to eat more white bread and sugar, which is seen as harmful.
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7 Jun 18