HCB, did you get your knee checked by a doctor as it sounds like a torn meniscus. I’m saying this because I’ve had it twice and your symptoms sound very similar.
This topic contains 7,131 replies, has 66 voices, and was last updated by fitfast 4 months ago.
Morning/evening all,
Winter has returned to the UK for the next week or so which is a shame, but we still have the spring flowers to cheer us π
I’ve been up for ages so taken a short walk to test my knee which is now 100% thank goodness, and there is a loaf of soda bread cooling on the rack.
I used the excess kefir in place of buttermilk.
I’ve had to ditch some kefir grains which is a shame but I don’t know anyone who would want to be bothered with using them let alone actually drink kefir.
Have a good one everybody π
Morning/evening all from a cold but sunny London π
It is perfect marathon weather.
The souffle was really good and substituting the pasta for beans worked very well.
I ate too much soda bread before the remainder was put into the freezer so need to be extra mindful today.
This is the second day in a row that I am pain free which is a small miracle for me. I’m going to put more effort into muscle strengthening and less into cardio vascular exercise when at the gym this week and I might finally get round to trying the stretch class.
Jo, you keep insisting you do 23/1 so what is this talk of snacks? It’s not the first time this week you’ve mentioned them. If you need to have a snack then 23/1 is not working for you and you should re-assess your eating plan.
As for your dog, do you not think that unless she goes really badly downhill you should wait until she can be seen by a vet who knows her, and at 13 and poorly does she really need a walk. Maybe she needs to rest so her body can use its energy to fight whatever is ailing her.
Wee and Jim will have a fabulous time and I’m really looking forward to hearing all about it on their return.
Have a good one everybody π
Hi all from Melbourne,
I am enjoying the peace and quiet of a Long Weekend, much less traffic everywhere! We have a Public Holiday for Anzac Day (Tues) and of course many people take the opportunity of a four day weekend… Any excuse for a holiday!
Not much to report, lots of batch cooking, gardening (still going on the bulbs, must be 200 of them), catching up with children and grandchild, very pleasant really! I love, love, love Autumn. The air smells beautiful outside, maybe its the damp earth? Fast wise no change, weight wise no change. I could probably fast less if I feasted less on non fast days, but I think I prefer the feasting without guilt!
Jo I am so sorry to hear Tilly is still not herself, and sorry you are feeling down. It seems to be a recurring issue with you as you have mentioned it previously – perhaps its just who you are? Does knowing it will pass help? I believe personal happiness is all related to our expectations, ie if our life is what we expect it to be, we are contented and happy. We don’t need to be having ‘fun’ all the time to be happy. I also believe it has a lot to do with simply how we were born… Talking always helps too…. Your friends mother certainly doesn’t sound good, I guess the BSD will be the last thing on her mind. I am sure you are unsettled with Tilly being so sick, dogs are part of the family! Hopefully the vet will figure out what is going on. If she is eating that is certainly a good sign.
RT we wont get ahead of ourselves, but methinks the Crows are going to shine this year! You must be very pleased… Not sure how much ABC you watch, but we stumbled onto a show called Art Bites (on iview) a series called The Wanderers (all artists) and the First Episode features Guido Van Helten’s latest project.
He goes to Manildra in NSW and paints large murals of the locals faces on goods train carriages. Manildra is a wheat area and the carriages transport flour from the huge flour mill all over the country. He was happy to think his artworks would be travelling far and wide! Its a great series, we watched the first four episodes straight through.
Glad to hear that Amazon’s knee and Happys back are now much improved! I would not dare do the exercises you do Amazon, I would be sure to injure something! I love my swimming and the only thing that gets damaged is the hair colour!
Nama,
I’ve been exercising on and off (definitely more off than on) throughout my adult life and I’ve always enjoyed it. The biggest issue has been getting out of bed or off my backside and walking out of the door, and nothing would be further from my mind after night duty than exercise.
I did cycle to work for over 10 years and also 13 years of working on my veggie plot was hard work.
I also think I am physically strong due to the nature of my work, lugging all that heavy equipment around not to mention what is now termed as “manual handling” of sick/injured adults.
My mindset has changed from “I should” to “I want to” and that is because I have the time and the inclination to look after myself better and of course losing weight has made it much easier for me to actually move!
I don’t do anything difficult and am still learning to pace myself, which is why my knee has been complaining, and I have to say that I love it even when my legs feel like jelly or my arms are burning and I’m hot and bothered and struggling. The most difficult thing about it has been not rewarding myself with a big fat bacon sarnie or a cake!
I’ve always loved swimming and now use it as relaxation/meditation/stretching out after a workout. I don’t push myself at all but swim at a very leisurely pace concentrating on stretching every muscle.
As for not doing something for fear of sustaining an injury, I’ve always had a daredevil streak but kept it under wraps until I was in my 40s so I’m making up for lost time π
As I said before, I’m a work in progress π
The veggie brunch was fab, bubble and squeak,grilled Halloumi, spicy beans, grilled asparagus, tomatoes and mushrooms and a fried duck egg.
That’s me done for the day apart from maybe a few strawberries later and definitely a glass of wine ππππ·
Thats where we differ Amazon, I have always despised exercise!! Funny, I can work in the garden for 10 hours straight but could not do 10 minutes in a gym! Lucky I love swimming and have been known to walk for an hour or two if pushing a certain little one in her pram! I do admire your discipline, but if you enjoy the gym that much, maybe my admiration is misdirected? π
Ha ha ha!
My biggest daily challenge is getting out of bed and out of the door, everything else is easy π
I do occasionally wonder why I put myself through some of the cardio work but am reminded why when I walk up a steep hill and am no longer gasping for breath after 20 paces or near collapse when I eventually reach the top!
Hello Fasters,
This morning we had torrential showers as if Noah’s Arc was getting ready to arrive.
With that I stayed longer in bed listening to the heavy rain in which the lawn is saying thank you.
My energy levels is low! I was never that go get driven person. Many times I wondered if I had health problems because I compared mysel with people like Jo.
I get everything done with my own pace specially now that I accept myself the way I am.
The reason I go to the gym is because of my yoga instructor. I have him for 12 years now and he’s my favorite. Occasionally I would take a spin class, Pilates or whatever I feel like that day followed once a week by dry sauna. There’s no steam rooon … my faboirite.
Amazon in Brazil I took acupuncture for the knee and shoulder. It was a lady doctor who performed it and she requested ultra sound and x-rays. The radiologist didn’t see anything wrong however I might have that tore meniscus. Not overdoing anything lately has helped. I did to much to quick when we just arrived in FL without proper stretching. It’s going to pass if I rest.
We just arrived from a beautiful brunch. I had eggs Bennecdite w/ salmon. Was listed 690cal π±…
I hope everyone is happy and healthy today.
β€
See you later
Hi Fast Trackers
Hello World (You All know Who You ARE) π
Nama thanks for that article really enjoyed it an in depth and a great read this is true
βBut if there is a single thing you must remember from what I wrote, it is this: you can only really benefit from intermittent fasting when you are keto-adapted, and remain in a state of nutritional ketosis the majority of the time.β
It is fascinating to think that an in principal agreement that fasting is very good for us has so many differing opinions strategies and set up structures. Me included so the less you eat the more you lose.
Just like the
Abbott & Costelloβs whoβs on first classic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTcRRaXV-fg
10550 steps in the bank this morning letβs get our fast on..
βItβs is easier to avoid eating than to stop eating once startedβ
Peace RT
Hi all…..well I’m back…I gave up 18 months ago and have half heartedly tried a range of things but I’ve worked out I have probably lost 4 kilos at least 25 times during that time!! Today I woke up and realized that my health is not getting better. Ie joints, sleep etc… And that everything I read points to the fact that IF is the way to go… I have tried the blood sugar diet but my issue is consistency … This time I am seeing it as a lifestyle ….will not worry about 16:8 or any other permutation, I will just start with two days fasting and 1500 kcal on the other days…my TDEE is over 2000 but that’s won’t work for me… Fortunately I have still maintained my exercise and am still going to a gym, but exercise does not work against calorie intake. (Well my calorie intake) looking forward to reconnecting. Emel xox
HI Fasttrackers
4 years ago, today, Mr P and I embarked on the culinary/lifestyle adventure that would change our lives.
We had seen βEat Fast and Live Longerβ on TV the night before and jumped in with both feet. He had been an insulin injecting Type 2 diabetic for quite a number of years, gaining a lot of weight as insulin does to people. through a couple o medical issues, I had gained weight in the previous 5 years to a point where my feet hurt, I huffed and puffed walking uphill or stairs and had limited choices when purchasing clothes. My option was usually flowing outfits that overweight women hide in.
We researched what our healthy goal weights should be. I was 85 kilos and needed to be under 60. He was 100 kilos and needed to be about 70. We set ourselves one year to achieve this.
We did the basic two ΒΌ TDEE fasts a week, beginning with spreading our meagre ration over 3 tiny eating sessions, but soon realising it is better to cut out breakfast and eventually progressing to 24 hour food free. We had such terrific success immediately (losing 1 kilo every week), that we began to reassess what we ate on non fast days.
In the first year our diet changed completely. Gone from our house were any white carbs, and any food we felt we couldnβt eat in small quantities. Better to get rid of temptation.
We didnβt eat any meals out for the first year, developing an understanding and portfolio of healthy tasty recipes that became low carb, low GI and with small healthy quantities of protein and massively increased leafy, low GI vegetables. We increased the amount of seafood we ate markedly as well. We always ate a small dessert of berries, unsweetened full fat yoghurt, cinnamon and almonds on fast days. We drank at least 1 glass of wine on 5 days a week. Never cider, beer or sweetened drinks.
Our weight loss continued in a downward path, slowing a bit after 4 months, but always going down. We bought fitness monitors and tried to do at least 10000 steps a day. We donβt go to a gym, but incorporate exercise in daily life. We park long distances from our destinations and walk. We use public transport and we always choose to use stairs. If on an escalator, we walk. I carry a shopping basket rather than push a trolley.
We weighed every morning and night and Mr P recorded his blood sugar levels every day. He soon realised he should reduce his insulin usage. After just over the year he was off all diabetes medications.
We both reached our goal weights exactly on the 1st anniversary, 3 years ago today, and have maintained them ever since, despite many overseas trips.
Since then we have tinkered with our techniques, introducing homemade sourdough and kefir. We eat out often, but do it mindfully. We skip breakfast often and rarely snack. We usually fast Mondays and Thursdays, but are flexible. His blood readings (which show he is no longer diabetic) and our daily weights are our constant monitoring system.
I feel by fasting I have relearnt how to eat as I did for most of my younger life. I know when I really do need to eat. I listen when my body says βenoughβ and I choose vegetables and strong tastes to feel satiated. I know how to go long periods without food.
We are both still at, and often below, our goal weights and can move, swim, kayak and run to our heartsβ content. We can buy small sized clothes and feel smart when wearing them. We still enjoy the compliments we get, but in reality, it is the inner pride that comes with taking control of our own health that gives us the biggest kick and motivates us to never let our health get out of hand again.
We did it and we are both very different people. Anyone can. Thanks again Dr M. PVE
Brilliant post Purple from the high priestess of the fast way of life we all need to remember where we came from how we got there and now where we all are I concur certainly thanks Dr M
Nama I missed your post in regards to the crows yes itβs the best start to a season since we joined in 1991 so a lot of positive vibe however my concern is the back end of the completion and in particular the finals we simply are not strong enough in Elimination Semi or Preliminary Finals again we blu it last year after losing a home final then lost in Sydney in the Preliminay final getting there is one thing being competitive is another thanks for the heads up I will follow this up β Not sure how much ABC you watch, but we stumbled onto a show called Art Bites (on iview) a series called The Wanderers (all artists) and the First Episode features Guido Van Heltenβs latest project.β Thanks for that We are hooking up the Van and nicking off for a few weeks so I will track this down and watch for sur I just canβt seem to get my head around the sheer scale of the works superb stuff !!!
Morning/evening all.
Welcome back emel π
A new week, another FD. Here we go!
Purple, you and Mr P have done incredibly well and I hope you are both rightly proud of yourselves for such an achievement.
My progress hasn’t been straightforward and I’m still trying to work out why it is so much harder now than before and to be honest I can’t find a reason but I’ll just keep going. I am not going to set a time limit and my goals are going to be modest as I think high expectations just set me up for disappointment.
RT, have a good trip π
Have a good one everybody π
Thanks Purple,
I know I’ve come a long way and I’m a different (and much happier) person but it is soooo frustrating not being able to stick to the plan which used to be so easy.
I’ve been out this morning and noticed how many obese/very overweight people there are and suddenly realised I used to be one of them. When I was a child it was so rare to see someone who was obese that people would stare. And why are so many incapable of walking along the street without eating and/or drinking?
I’ve got 7lbs/3kg to go to get into the “normal” weight range for me which began to seem almost impossible, but I’ve had a good think while out realised that I’ve got into a “this is never going to happen” frame of mind so my mission is to be more positive and less self critical.
Hello,
The weather is beautiful here this morning after yesterday’s storm. I don’t know if is good or bad but we have a leek in the kitchen and I don’t know how we are going to have someone coming by and fix it within one week before we leave.
PVE – what an inspiration you both are! We shall all insist and don’t give up on our selves. As Amazon mentioned it’s really necessary to create that good frame of mind and keep going forward. The health benefits there living without diabetes is the best.
Jo I am sorry to hear the doggy needs surgery.
RT – enjoy your trip and thanks always “keep on keeping on” π
Welcome back Emil.
Have a good day Folks π€‘
Well I have managed day one well…but am tired and so am in bed and watching STAN…away from tempting kitchen… Had a good session at the gym, then came home for steamed fish and stir fry veges … I do think it is a head thing as I really did not want to eat today… My downfall before was that I did not control what I ate on NFDs. So thanks purple for your approach!! I will have to be mindful and initially make sure I know what I eat ..thanks for encouragement …RT I read one of your jokes and the memories flooded back..am assuming SAMM has not reappeared
I’ve been wide awake since 2:20am…now heading towards 4, so I thought I’d read some emails π
Welcome back to the fold Emel. As Amazon says, it is all about headspace. You CAN do it! Without a doubt, controlling non fast days is the key to success.
Seeing the frightening number of obese people around (and usually filling their faces) is an inspiration to all of us. My initial reaction is “You don’t need to eat”, followed by “I’m not going back down that path.”
Another thing I’ve noticed….I always eat my meals very quickly these days. As hormones trigger satiation, it makes sense to serve out the correct portion of food, consume it within a short time and stop. Satiation is triggered and “your stomach closes ” (as one of my sons says.) If you graze, particularly having smorgasbord style options, we all have much more trouble controlling hunger.
Prepare your meal, serve and eat one small portion and stop eating. Never eat anything while standing up or walking. All eating should be done sitting properly at a dining table. This limits your consumption and teaches you not to snack.
Reassess your relationship with food. Eat only the best, most flavoursome food. Prepare it with care and thought. Sit down and enjoy it. Then get on with the rest of your life. P π
Sorry you can’t sleep Purple.
I try hard to eat slowly and chew every mouthful as if I eat quickly I find myself disappointed that it is all gone and wanting to eat more.
I’m also working on preparing and cooking smaller portions as I think I’ve been slacking in that department so have gone back to calorie counting. I don’t mind doing it as I would rather take a couple of minutes longer preparing food than over-eating.
I am really struggling today and it is because I ate too much over the weekend which included too much bread. I am not going to give in so will probably have an early night, spend half the night wearing a path to the bathroom because I’ve had too much water and the other half tossing and turning… π
I know that I’ll feel much better tomorrow π
Your last description is me tonight, but I always think that every trip to the ‘loo is more fat coming off ππ
It is very easy to develop bracket creep, isn’t it? I try to buy and freeze or store food in one fast day portion. I can then supplement it with some more low GI veg for non fast days.
I’ve just finished Bill Bryson’s book on Shakespeare, so the light MUST go out for some shuteye. My little mate beside me is deep in slumber πͺ
All the best with the rest of your fast. You can do it π
I hope you have got back to sleep, P. One of the benefits of your retirement – when I wake in the night, I am often nodding off just as it’s about time for the alarm.
Some very good points on mindfulness on NFD eating, and great to hear your inspirational story again. I WILL address these creeping kilograms. It’s not possible to put your experience into play in this household, though, as OH will not adjust his NFDs – found him eating biscuits for lunch at the weekend !! I think he is likely to be insulin-resistant, hence the lack of results currently with 5:2 (apart from biscuits, beer, bread, lack of exercise…) Snap, Jo.
Good to see you back, Emel. I trust all is going well in your non-cyber life. SAMM has disappeared from the thread, and has not been back. π
It’s a glorious fine still day here for Anzac Day commemorations.
Agggggh I was so virtuous yesterday on my fast day and so awoke thinking I know I will weigh less.. I wonder how much!!! The scales however had other ideas and I weighed the same and then after the third check I was more!!! Now the rational person lurking under the emotional eater said ,it is a number and no more , this is is a long term commitment and the results will come…the more dominant aspect of self was hysterical!! I need to stop panicking…normally this happens around day four so I’m somewhat upset as in the past when that happens I give up… Anyway this is why I’m online…I need to be calm …..so I will read posts and try to regain some equilibrium …
A wet over caste ANZAC Day… Normally I cook biscuits for my boys but as I am in Clare and they are in Adelaide I will not sabotage my efforts…..it always amuses me that I will bake when I start out on a diet!! Hardly subtle but that is my psyche!! I will refrain from baking as have a lot of school work to do and as I travel to Canberra to see my father tomorrow I need to use my time wisely
Patience Emel π
My weight often stays the same after fasts. Think of it as not gaining! That’s a step forward π
Throw all the flour, rice, pasta, sugar and potatoes out now and don’t replace until you have hit goal. Fill your fridge with “skinny people ” food so that you learn to eat that way. Every day.
I found this list on my computer yesterday. Have a standby of basic βthin peopleβ foods availableβ¦salad makings, lemons, limes, chillies, garlic, ginger, onions, fennel, leeks, carrots, beans, sauerkraut, fish, nuts, berries etc. Salads and berries and miracle noodles! Learn to live without white carbs.
Think about ANZAC biscuits. Then think about the effort it takes to undo the damage and move on.
Learning to look at and consider poor choices in shops, then walking away is a fun, resolve-strengthening exercise.
Don’t work too hard. P
Hi emel,
Am I reading your post correctly? Youve been at this for 4 days? What were you expecting? There is no magic involved. You want to get into a routine so that your body knows its a routine and doesn’t panic and “save energy”. I religiously fast every Monday and have been in maintenance for over a year now. I do not wake up hungry on Monday mornings as my body knows its not going to be fed.
What PVE said is good advice. I have a simple rule that I follow. I avoid anything that is grain based. No bread, biscuits, cakes, breakfast cereal etc. Baking on your fast days sounds like your get out of jail card. It gives you a “legitimate” excuse to break your fast. get rid of all those easy temptations. You wouldn’t expect a recovering alcoholic to have beer in the house, so why have poor food choices in the house?
Thanks P….just so people do not fall on the ground in disbelief after reading my post…..I am not making the ANZAC biscuits! I was just reflecting on what I normally do …..yes was disappointed and it took getting onto the forum and writing to calm down!! I have had breakfast and no baking in sight!! Off to the gym along with work so I will busy myself…and yes I realize that there is no magic involved. I am also aware that I need to get through each day trying to be as positive as I can as i have used food as an emotional crutch for decades – the scales may have to go!!! Actually , I don’t think I am ready for that yet!
Hi Emel,
NFD is my problem as well! We are on this together.
I believe I joined this thread 2 years ago and still couldn’t be consistent with my 5:2 lifestyle. There were some highs and lows. Highs psychologically wehrm the weight was low(I was so close to the goal)and the rest you know what. High inpounds eventualy very frustrating
I did good today!
Tonight was my SIL good bye dinner and I hosted it. Our meal was chicken kabobs, mixed green salad and rice-roni (my part).
My stepdaughter came in with all kind of sweets. Very well up to that point.
The problem was all the left over! Well, well – she wasn’t looking when I packed her cooler with all desserts back … gilt free just like the big left over ham from Easter. Thank you π
PVE what’s the skinny’s people fridge π!
See you tomorrow π΄πΎ
What a spectacular day! It started early (no sleep-in because it was not a work day π ), Skyping with son in Sydney (and two boisterous grandchildren – the little lad has only met us a couple of times, but the joy on his face when he saw us!!), a walk on the beach, and I have just got up from the piano seat after having given myself such pleasure making music (albeit in beginner’s fashion). We met family members on the beach also taking in the sunshine.
Last time I was on a horse it bolted with me, several kilometres down the road. I haven’t had an opportunity to re-mount, unfortunately. Yes, I know it was a metaphor, P π . My 5:2 steed is currently at the feeding trough!
Morning/evening all,
Emel, we understood what you meant.
I rarely weigh less the day after a FD either. The fact is if you’ve restricted your calories you will lose weight but other factors such as food in transit, fluid balance, or retention especially if you’ve been to the gym and your muscles are recovering all have an effect. I know you know all this but it doen’t hurt to be reminded and (I hope) reassured that all will be well.
π
It’s a lovely sunny morning here but not very warm. We seem to be experiencing the sting in winter’s tail but the forecast for next week looks much better with warmer temperatures forecast.
I didn’t get to sleep until after midnight but slept well and feel good this morning.
The gym beckons,
Have a good one everybody π
Hi all,
A very wet Anzac Day here too Barata, flash flooding in parts of Victoria overnight. Didnt stop the Veterans marching though, such a moving sight.
Purple thanks from me too for your post, its great motivation for everyone. A reminder that this big lifestyle change we are all attempting is achievable. Your commitment in maintaining your new habits is also inspiring,demonstrating that it IS possible to be in control of our health and well being.
Another welcome back from me too Emel. Hang in there, you can do this. I think lots of us around here have been comfort eaters for many years. I probably still am! But fasting has enabled me to remain in control. My weight yoyo’d for for four decades until I found fasting, my secret weapon to finally being in control and maintaining a healthy, normal weight. Purple is right, throw out all the white foods, much easier if they are not in the house. I used to bake a lot for my boys, but I probably enjoyed the goodies more than they did. I only bake for special occasions now, or to give to the now married sons and DILs.
Excuse me, there is a very exciting football match on that I must watch….enjoy your trip RT, hope the weather is lovely and you and yfee have fun!
I think you got my weather from yesterday Barata.
After Emel talked about ANZAC biscuits, I thought I’d make some for the grandkids. Looked up a recipe and made the ‘crispy’ version. They ended up burnt, tasteless little nuggets! I had left out the sugar! That shows how rarely I cook with sugar! ππ Serves me right! P
Looking at your photos on FB, P, I agree π And as far as sugar goes, had visitors for afternoon tea on Sunday, both took sugar in their teas and I had done some baking for the occasion, had to haul out a new bag of the sweet stuff. Checked for a use-by date (none), fearing it might have been in the back of the cupboard too long. Snap!
Hey Jo the glass marble idea sounds a winner. I’m off to Canberra tomorrow evening so may pick up some there. I did a 600 cal fast. Today tried to stick to 1500 but I think I went over as I ate a handful of almonds. My pantry is not too bad as this year have been doing my best not to have things to eat… Im going to actually have to write things down!!
Did not get to the gym as had to deal with a work issue and gym was closed when I became free. roasted veges today so they I’ll be good on my return and ironed and ironed!!
And yes I’m back and I will keep at it!!!
Hi again,
First time at the gym for two weeks, 20 mins rowing, 20 mins cycling, then 10 mins in on the cross trainer I got a twinge in my knee so I stopped immediately. I got on the treadmill which was fine, so did 15 minutes. I also did lots of sit-ups and crunches plus some other mat work. I’m very pleased to have gotten through a workout without any major issues with my knee. I might put an ice pack on it later but I’ll see if I get any more twinges.
It is a beautiful sunny day but the wind is bitterly cold so along with the twinge I’ve decided my afternoon walk is off and I’ll put my feet up and watch the tennis. Such a hardship π
I was talking to 2 women in the changing room and they were chatting about breakfast. One of them said she had put on a couple of pounds which she wanted to lose and she was going to cut out the croissants and pastries (this woman is in her 60s and has a fabulous figure) but toast would be OK. Her friend agreed and said, well you’ve got to have breakfast haven’t you?
I bit my tongue………
I’ve just broken my fast with some homemade Bircher, every ingredient weighed and measured. Tonight I’m going to make an avocado, bacon and roasted asparagus salad.
Yesterday was really tough but it made me realise I’ve been eating too much every day not just NFDs so it’s no wonder progress is so slow. I also realised that if I have 2 NFDs in a row I overdo it so I’ve switched to ADF for a couple ofweeks to see if it makes it easier for me to stay on the straight and narrow.
I don’t need glass beads, I’ve got the pink jeans hanging on the door again π
It is so cold I need to find a vest π
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-39693462
Keep moving everyone, no matter how little you are able to do it would seem that it makes a difference.
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8:41 pm
21 Apr 17