This topic contains 3,042 replies, has 111 voices, and was last updated by Delayedgratification 5 years, 3 months ago.
Indian food is so convenient for eating out! My husband and others can have what they want and I stick virtuously to chicken tikka, some raita and mushroom bhaji. Even papadam is made with garbanzo flour rather than wheat flour so I feel good about munching on that if I have to pass on the yummy naan. And everything is so full of flavor that I feel like I’ve really had a treat!
Ladies, all the Ladies! (And not to forget Big Booty, our gentleman caller).. I am very excited. Annette – I have been thinking of you all week. I HAVE BEEN AVOIDING SUGAR.
Golly I thought this day would never come. It started accidentally because I was trying really hard to fast because I have a big birthday involving a zero coming up in early Feb. So I didn’t want to be Fat And F**ty (if I don’t say the word it won’t come true). So I had that as motivation. Anyhow I was really trying just to focus on eating protein and vegetables with the odd piece of fruit, no carbs.
After a few days I realized I hadn’t had any ‘pure’ sugar products, which is totally unheard of, and no refined grains either. I’ve had a few spoons of peanut butter here and there (which has added sugar) but apart from that I have had no added sugar. And I feel really, really good.
I am honestly the last person I thought would ever be able to do that. I could get up in the morning and eat chewy sweets first thing, followed by refined carbs all day. I’m going to read Fung now – I have seen Lustig on TV and he was very persuastive. Thank you, Annette!!
Lael – great that you got back on the fast wagon so quickly! Do let us know how you fare next time you see your friend. In response to what Annette said to you about this being a WOL – it really is. I’ve been doing this on and off for two years now and I can honestly say it has changed my relationship with food, for the better, finally. I never thought I’d be able to say that.
Queen – I read somewhere that bad or good habits are sort of ‘infectious’ – if your friend orders a salad, you are more likely to, but ditto if one of you is in the mood for a pudding you’ll try to convince the other to join in. Sounds like your husband is doing this which is hard – it’s hard enough to motivate yourself without having to resist someone else too! Is it a conversation you are able to have with him? My husband was funny when I started to loose weight. In fact he even suspected I was having an affair (!!). It was only when I sat him down and explained that me being fat (a result of grief – I decided to ‘take up’ drinking and eating chocolate to comfort myself. Didn’t work. Just ended up fat and sad rather than just sad) was actually because I was sad and depressed (rather than the other way around) and that I had made a conscious decision to try not to be sad and depressed and that part of that was to try to look after myself and sort out my eating. I wonder if having a frank chat might help? It might be entirely the wrong thing though, you know what the dynamic of your relationship is.
Also re your question about the body trying to re-gain the weight – I believe this is true! I understand (probably cod science but hey) from a friend who is very fit that the body finds the weight it thinks it should be – your ‘set point’ – (so if you have been overweight for a while the body thinks that is the weight it should be) so when you loose weight, your body has to stay that lower weight for a year before your set point changes to the lower weight.
Breakfast – is there any way you can either miss this or delay it? Then have just proteins if possible (eggs & turkey bacon??). I had lamb koftas for breakfast this morning at 10:30am as I was ravenous. However wherever possible I always remember Jade’s ‘No Breakfast Club’ and as the great sage (Jade) herself says, I just try to ‘white knuckle’ it through to lunchtime. Again I thought I would never say that – I was a ‘first thing in the morning must eat’ person but this REALLY helps me.
Lastly (sorry for very long post) – I definitely think meal planning and food delivery is better than wandering round supermarkets. Far too much temptation away from real food there. Plan your meals – you will loose pounds on your body and gain them in your wallet! xx
Hi, I’m quite new to this forum, but like some of you I have also had a lifelong issue with bingeing. This was my biggest worry with intermittent fasting – that I would overeat to such an extent on the NFDs that I would not lose weight.
I actually got to my BMI down to 30 a couple of years ago doing a VLCD (very low calorie diet) as I had a surgery deadline to get the weight off so it had to be quick. However in the last 3 months I regained 10kg and I want a healthier way to get those kilos off and maintain long term. I’m hopeful that intermittent fasting is the method that could work for me.
One of the things that has helped me most so far, is an eating window (sometimes called 16:8 I think). I started using this a year ago to help with the side effects from immune suppressing therapy. Although I had a few stops and starts, the longer I stuck with this the easier it got (like most things in life I suspect). My appetite was always non-existent first thing in the morning, but I used to eat breakfast because I believed the messages about it being important. All it did for me was to kick start my appetite which basically wouldn’t shut off all day. I basically grazed all day and into the night – if I was awake I was either eating or thinking about eating. When I started the eating window I basically just cut out breakfast and started eating at lunch time (I do have a cup of tea or two, mid morning). I also set an end point of 9pm, although in reality I usually have no food after 7:30, just a cup of decaf tea. I actually feel a sense of relief when 9pm arrives as I know I don’t have to worry about food until the next day. (It wasn’t like this in the beginning but the cut off point has been an absolute rule for long enough now, that the voice in my head that constantly encourages me to eat has pretty much given up at night time.) I’ve come to realise that a period of fasting (even just the period of sleeping at night) is the only thing that turns off my appetite, but the moment I eat something it’s like pressing the start button again.
So last week I did 5:2 and stuck to my eating window every day and it went well and was really quite easy, I was quite controlled on all but one of the non fast days. This week I’m doing 3 fast days as I have book club on Saturday – this means an afternoon tea that I have never yet been able to show restraint with, so I’m planning ahead an extra fast day to prepare for the extra calories I know will be eaten on Saturday.
Has anyone else found 16:8 or an eating window helpful?
Hi, Joyce-
You’re describing me. Anytime I start the day with food I’m a goner and I’m not going to be able to stop. But skip the breakfast and it’s not hard for me to stick to the 16:8 window.
That said, I primarily consider myself a 5:2 gal. I do 2 back-to-back full-fast days on Monday and Tuesday and stick to my meal window and sensible food on my food days which is the rest of the week.
I do full-fast for the same reason I skip brekkies. If I tried to limit my food it would be a constant struggle and I’d probably lose as much as win and be miserable even if I were winning. But if I’m simply not eating I handle that pretty well. Then I’m relaxed and can enjoy what I eat on my food days.
I don’t count calories at all and I don’t weigh myself. I lose slowly — probably because I’m older and have a slower metabolism and also because I’ve carried most of this fat since I was a in elementary school. But, not matter! It’s going. I feel good. I am free of cravings and, for the most part, binging behaviors. I’ve got a program I can manage. And even when I slip into old patterns and regain weight I can fast and get back to what works for me.
It’s uncharacteristically cold and rainy here in LA. And this is the remedy for that. It’s super easy and the yum factor is way out of proportion to the minor effort required.
I make it with either fresh fish or cooked and I use salmon as well as white-fleshed fish. I also halve the clams and use mussels and some calamari as well. Shrimp would made a good addition to but my husband can’t tolerate shrimp so I skip it.
Skip the bread, of course, but, otherwise, a great and delicious low carb choice.
Hi Joyce and welcome! Sounds like you are in the right place.
I’m with you and Chubs on the breakfast thing. As our wonderful Jade said, she’s a member of the ‘no breakfast club’ now and that certainly works for me. Breakfast just seems to say to my body “oh, that was great – what are we having next?” and then I just eat all day.
I did try the 16:8 but just didn’t loose weight on it. I think that extended fasting period if you do a proper fast day (i.e. pretty much 36 hours) gives the body a chance to really burn some calories.
I’m still bracing myself to follow Chubs and do a just water fast because I totally get what you are saying Chubs about the constant struggle once I start eating, it’s probably easier just not to bother at all.
That fish stew looks delicious!!
I’m still off the sugar but still waiting for the scales to budge.. hmm… think it’s all the brazil nuts…
Stoopid me! I meant to include the recipe because it really is super simple and delicious. But in getting the pic in I dropped the link to the recipe.
Here it is: http://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1018346-italian-style-fish-stew Do try it!
Hey Joyce, welcome to the island – I am one who can’t do strict windows because all hell will break loose in the last hour💣 But everyone finds what works for them so cheers to you! 16:8 has seen a lot of success here.😁
Oh yummy Chubs – bet I could make that stew even with frozen seafood. Something about tomatoes, wine, and chicken stock makes almost anything taste good to me (and yes I even put some of the wine in the food!!!) Love Better Than Bouillon, which you mentioned – I often use it in place of salting soups and stews. Hey congrats on the almost size 10 👖!!
Lael, I’m late to your story but what an excelllent analysis of mental/physical responses to that kind of friendship stress. I admire you for not just clocking her with a pie before leaving. I’ve taken to simply saying, like the doc on TV, “oh I’ve already eaten” though unfortunately I’ve more often said lately “food? sure!” So I need to get back into true fasting at least 1x/wk. As you said Annette, it’s the rest of the solution past just avoiding trigger foods.
Mcca, goodness girl, you’re a sight for sore eyes! And Queen! Yay, the old gang and the new gang, still metaphysically prancing down the Champs-Elysees🍷💛
Queen, I know the feeling of getting that itch scratched after having carbs. Sometimes I wonder why I’m so hungry some days and not others. Simple unsweet carbs never make me feel bad immediately, the way sugary stuff does. But I guess the hook is the same. We crave it and can overeat it, unlike craving a good steak and being satisfied with a normal portion. All I can tell you is that I listened to Annette and it saved my sanity (😘 Ms Wiz). Fung and his science are right. I somehow broke free and got clean enough not to go insane over pastries now, and it’s worth all the time I spent cursing the scale for not rewarding me for overeating whole foods lol.
My one bottomline rule still is never grainy carbs or anything sweet early in the day. Eggs if I’m really hungry or a handful of nuts, or plain Greek yogurt. Queen, don’t know if your breakfast sets you off, but it would me. Maybe not immediately, but something about having carbs early in sets me on a carb-seeking missile course for the day.
Saturday and time for chores, the dogs are eyeing me longingly – enjoy the weekend islanders🔆🌴jadexx
So GREAT to see you, Jade, and your wonderful assortment of emojis! Where *do* you get them????
I’m happy to say I’ve been in my size 10s since about Christmas. I’ve bought myself a pair of 8s and I’m hoping to wedge myself into them at some point sooner than later.
I have just about reconciled myself to the fact that I just don’t lose weight as fast now as I did a year ago. It’s the steadiness of the downhill that counts I guess. So I’ll wait and wedge when I can. 😜 I’m sure you’ll hear the shouting on the East Coast. …if I can actually *breathe* when I’m in them that is.
Yay Jade back again! How lovely to see you!
I’m channeling you today Chubs and trying a water only fast because – like you Jade – I appear to have been overdoing the whole foods and expecting the scales to nod along and tell me how good I have been. Instead they are saying “yes, nuts and dates have A LOT of calories”.
Up 2lbs and cursing them. I have 17 days to loose a few of these puppies before the big birthday. Grrr. Onwards and downwards.
Oops! I FU’d big time yesterday.
I baked banana bread on Saturday. The plan was the family would have what they wanted over the weekend and my husband would take the rest to the office this morning. Ordinarily, I’m good at my little Nancy Reagan “just say NO” strategy. But last night I rationalized that today was a FD anyway so I could have the proverbial “just one slice”. Of course I was back for the second one within 5 minutes of finishing the first.
Now my FD has been a slow drip Chinese water torture all day long.
But it’s dinnertime. If I can white knuckle my way through tonight I trust tomorrow will go better.
These are the times when we try our commitment, right? I *think* I’m all in… I’ve gotta be if I want to get into those size 8s!
Oh Chubs! Banana bread is my nemesis. It’s all the faux-healthy sound of it (‘banana’ – hey, it’s a fruit, right? And ‘bread’ – well it’s definitely not cake, is it? It says so in the name). I can eat a whole ‘bread’ (cake) in an hour or so given half a chance.
Well done for jumping so quickly back onto your waggon (I love your Nancy Reagan reference – that one is going to stick in my brain!). Did you manage to stick to your water fast day?
Two days ago I channelled you all day and did my first ever water only fast day. Guess what? No, I didn’t die of hunger as you can see, and you are right, I think it’s actually easier than obsessing over what calories are in a carrot and all that business. Thank you! 🙂
Hope all the other Islanders are well.
Dear fellow fasters,
I haven’t written for an age, but have been lurking, have to confess 😉
It’s lovely to see familiar ‘faces’ and no end of amazing advice, thanks for that.
I’m at a bit of a crossroads. I came off the fasting, and decided to go down the nutritional route to see if I could find help as I’m ‘slap bang wallop’ in the middle of a menopausal roller coasters, mainly headaches/migraines, night sweats and cravings. Anyway the nutritionist has given me some very good tips, and advice about vitamins etc for menopause. Quite a lot of the advice I semi-knew but had sort of ignored for an easy life! for example milk (and cheese) in the UK usually contain a lot of hormones due to intensive rearing of cows!, yoghurt is a bit better as is goats milk. She also told me to steer clear of Xenoestrogens, such as plastics, paints, chemicals, cosmetics and pesticides, as they play havoc with hormones! Rome wasn’t built in a day, so a work in progress.
Anyway to cut a long story short I’ve put on 14 Ibs since I stopped 5:2 🙁 (weirdly my clothes don’t feel that tight) although I generally eat clean, and no pasta, rice, bread as a general rule, I do have my weaknesses, chocolate and biscuits. The nutritionist advises against fasting and having healthy snacks on hand, nuts, veg, boiled eggs etc..so about 3 main meals plus 2 snacks. Her rationale is that fasting releases stress hormones, e.g cortisol, once these stress hormones are released the body tends to store or hang on to the fat ready for the next time. She is referring to the context of my hormonal state, but although all the other advice I’ve been given has been really sound, this one I’m struggling with. La Chubster I saw you’re doing the 60 hour fast 😉 well done you! and I used to do something similar, for me the 2 days together work wonders.
If you have any advice I’d be very happy to hear it!
P.S I’m no longer give my Latin dance classes, so am also wondering if that has made a difference to my weight, although I’m pretty active anyway, and now take dance classes as a student 🙂
Tango, I’m so sorry you’re having a rough time.
My menopause was well over a decade before I ever heard of IF so I don’t have any actual experience to share. And my menopause went pretty smoothly. Hot flashes to be sure but not the rest of the symptoms you’re reporting.
What I’ve read about the change is that it’s a stew of genetics and expectations. So if you can marshall a good attitude about it, it could help. Not easy to feel “good” about having migraines, I understand, but you can remind yourself that the whole menopause cycle doesn’t last all that long. What’s more, as I understand it, though you may have some migraine while you’re *in* it, once those hormones are no longer being produced, you’re unlikely to ever have a migraine again.
If your mom is still around you could ask her what hers was like. It might give you an idea how soon yours will be over.
As far as fasting and menopause are concerned, have you run any of Dr. Mosley’s research on fasting by your nutritionist? As I understand it, nutritionists, generally, are skeptical about fasting and not necessarily current on the research. Dr. Mosely says they’re the most resistant group of health professionals.
Now if you’ve stopped and it does, in fact, improve how you feel then continue until you’re done and then you can resume IF if you feel like it. But if you’ve stopped because you were told to and it hasn’t improved how you feel then you may be the best judge of if or how you want to fast.
No doubt the decrease in activity has also taken its toll. But you could put on some music and dance at home too! That might make a real contribution to improving your state of mind and even even out the hormonal storms.
Mostly, hang in there! Lots of us have been through it so we can sympathize and we can also assure you you’ll make it and it will be fine as soon as it’s done. (((HUGS)))
Hi there!
La Chubster, thanks for your very kind and wise words!, much appreciated 🙂
I’m finding the physical challenges of menopause, worse than the emotional in a way, so praying it may be all over soon. My mum is not around anymore sadly, but my sisters ‘sailed’ through their own menopauses, so I think I’ll have to ‘roll with the punches’. I think if I do some fasts, I may choose my very quiet days, and make it a ‘well-being’ day, not many of these quiet days to be honest though 😉
I think the combo of low thyroid and menopause is a drag, for weight loss, so I might have to be extra patient. I’m going to try a water fast tomorrow, as I haven’t got a lot going on, and will report back. In the meantime I’m trying to be vigilent on ’empty calories’, I don’t drink anymore, due to headaches, not that this has had ANY impact on weight.
I believe my biscuit habit and occasional ‘mocha’ coffee in the morning do the damage, creeping calories that over time add up. In fact I made an approx calculation, I don’t have biscuits or coffee everyday, but over a month the approx calorie count for such luxury would be about 12,000 calories..on the other hand I used to burn about 7000 cals a month with my Latin classes. It goes to show that the food we eat impacts more than we think!
Enjoy the weekend TGIF! xxx
Hi Tango, I too have had thyroid issues and I know how difficult they can be. I also have cortisol issues too and am using a bunch of bio-identical hormone creams for my menopausal issues. They make all the difference. It took me a long time to find good doctors who could truly help me with all my issues and I truly had to ‘doctor shop’ and do a lot of research to show my doctor(s). In fact that’s how I decided who was a more or less helpful doctor! The doctors who were most open to my research are those who have ended up helping me the most!
As far as the stress hormone cortisol being released because of fasting and weight being ‘held onto’ because of this, my understanding that this is based on research conducted on those who fast on water only and for longer periods than the 36 hours of a typical 5:2 fast. In fact here is a study which reveals that women (I love this since most fasting studies are conducted on men!!) who fast for Ramadan show decreased levels of cortisol after their fast than at the outset. Granted, Ramadan entails fasting from sunrise to sunset, so to me this would probably indicate that the women were fasting in the pattern more like a 24 hour fast since I would assume those fasting for Ramadan eat dinner, go to bed and wake after sunrise so don’t eat again till the following dinner? Anyway, I found the results of this study refreshing showing that maybe fasting doesn’t always raises cortisol levels in every circumstance… https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4500815/
LJoyce, I loved reading your post and I often utilize the ‘eating window’ as well and find it very helpful. Keeping the ‘eating window’ as a frame of mind allows me to better honor true hunger rather than out of habit.
Okay, I also want to acknowledge what you wrote LAChubster about going by what feels most healthiest and what works best for us! I agree that all the research in the world and all prescribed to me by ‘experts’ won’t trump what you suggested!
On the other hand, I’m a bit of a research enthusiast Tango, so I dug up a few more bits and pieces about cortisol that were compelling. I know this is a lot to read, though it further put my mind at ease about whether I’ll lose muscle and retain fat while practicing intermittent fasting:
‘Cortisol is a steroid hormone that maintains blood pressure, regulates the immune system and helps break down proteins, glucose and lipids. It’s a hormone that’s gotten quite a bad rep in the fitness and health community but we have it for a reason. The morning peak in cortisol makes us get out of bed and get going. A blunted morning cortisol peak is associated with lethargy and depression. Cortisol is elevated during exercise, which helps mobilize fats, increase performance and experience euphoria after and during workouts. Trying to suppress acute elevations of cortisol during exercise, or the normal diurnal rhythm, is foolish. Chronically elevated levels of cortisol, resulting from psychological and/or physiological stress, is another thing and unquestionably bad for your health; it increases protein breakdown, appetite and may lead to depression.
Short-term fasting has no effect on average cortisol levels and this is an area that has been extensively studied in the context of Ramadan fasting. Cortisol typically follows a diurnal variation, which means that its levels peak in the morning at around 8 a.m. and decline in the evenings. What changes during Ramadan is simply the cortisol rhythm, average levels across 24 hours remain unchanged.
“In one Ramadan study on rugby players, subjects lost fat and retained muscle very well. And they did despite training in a dehydrated state, without pre-workout or post-workout protein intake, and with a lower protein intake overall nonetheless. Quoting directly from the paper:
“Body mass decreased significantly and progressively over the 4-week period; fat was lost, but lean tissue was conserved…”
“…Plasma urea concentrations actually decreased during Ramadan, supporting the view that there was no increase of endogenous protein metabolism to compensate for the decreased protein intake.”
In one study on intermittent fasting, the fasting group even saw “significant decrease in concentrations of cortisol.” However, this study should be taken with a grain of salt as it had some flaws in study design.
Prolonged fasting or severe calorie restriction causes elevated baseline levels of cortisol. This occurs in conjunction with depletion of liver glycogen, as cortisol speeds up DNG, which is necessary to maintain blood sugar in absence of dietary carbs, protein, or stored glycogen. Again, it seems someone looked at what happens during starvation and took that to mean that short-term fasting is bad.’
If you want to read more from the above source, here’s the web page. For each study cited, there is a link to the actual study… http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html
Thanks, Lael. I am also highly in favor of following the direction the research leads and that’s what first impressed me about Dr. Mosley’s summary of IF research when I first saw his BBC documentary.
That said, I’m certainly not a scientist and absorb it and practice it in the way I’m able which means being a bit experimental and letting my own results guide me. I am, after all, someone who was dissuaded for decades from the evidence of my own body that grains had net negatives for me because science — at least the way it was presented by the USDA — said they should be the foundation of our diets.
I hope you’ll continue to share what you read and I will certainly be interested in it.
PS When I lived in Cape Town I had a lovely housekeeper who was Muslim and diligent about Ramadan. She was adamant that she didn’t feel burdened by her fasting. Of course, those of you in the Southern Hemisphere have a shorter sundown to sunrise during Ramadan than we do in the Northern Hemisphere. 😉 Narima, a devout woman, would attribute it more to the beneficence of Allah but I’m sure she’d endorse the research as well. I know I never saw her slow down even though she didn’t even have water during the daylight hours for that month. And I bet Northern Hemisphere Muslims rely on the practical reduction of cortisol whether they’re aware of the research or not.
Hi Tango! I’m not sure if we’ve ever ‘spoken’ – I have a feeling I was on a sabbatical from the Island when you joined! ☺
Your questions about clean eating I have some thoughts on. When I started 5:2 it was the eating days that were a problem for me – I just shoved in as much sugar and junk as I could. I then fasted to ‘make up’ for the eating days. I did loose weight though overall, but it just wasn’t that healthy.
So then I decided to try to focus more on eating well and having good, nutritious food. Which was really great in itself – and I definitely benefitted from feeding my body nutrients and enjoying eating real food not crap.
The only problem was, I put on 10lbs!!!
So now I am trying the ‘holy grail’ of fasting, which is doing the fasting (to loose the weight – it’s the only way – less in than goes out) but then on the eating days, really trying to keep with the nutritious, wholesome foods. It’s only been a few weeks but I am 5lbs down and feel good.
I completely agree with Chubster as well – I think you find what works for you – there will always be an ‘expert’ who disagrees with your way but you know your body and your emotions better than anyone else. Good luck!
Hello everyone.
I’m new to this diet/lifestyle choice and to this forum. I resisted trying it because I was really worried I would just binge on my NFD’s so I was really interested to see this discussion. I’ve only been following it for 3 weeks so far on the 4:3 format as I do have a significant amount of weight to lose. I once lost 40kilos on a VLCD over 9 months which was the first diet I ever managed to stick to. But I became absolutely obsessed with food even having a recurring dream about stuffing my face at a huge banquet. Needless to say as soon as I hit my goal weight that is more or less what I did and it all went back on plus 10kg.!!
So far I’m positive – I’m not weighing myself til the end of the month so I dont get either too smug or too depressed and ruin it ( have been known to do that). The positive is that I really haven’t had a binge in 3 weeks. I do not count calories on NFD’s but that means I’m eating 3 meals a day of whatever I fancy and I feel full so I don’t feel the need to snack and binge. The FD’s have been a struggle, I’m so hungry in the evening I have slipped a couple of times. Now I’m trying the to eat nothing til dinner and having the 500 cals in 1 satisfying meal. That is looking more positive.
It’s great to read all your stories and know I’m not alone. For info im closing on 50 years old, 50kilos overweight, and just starting to feel the first signs of the menopause. I need to find a way of living I can sustain.
Hi all,
I’m new to this thread but not to this way of life! The thread I was on has kind of dwindled so I’m hoping you don’t mind me joining in here too?
I’ve been doing the plan for over a year now and got to my goal weight before the holidays then promptly started binging on holiday goodies and gaining at least 5 lbs back! Very disgusted with myself. I’ve been eating very “clean” (no sugar, gluten, etc.) prior to this but having a hard time getting back on track. I do tend to be a binger… a life long problem.
A bit more about me, I’m 53, a business owner and mom of 4 kids (10-16 years old). LA Chubster, I’m in San Diego and can relate to all the dreary rain we’ve had lately. I know we shouldn’t complain compared to what some parts of the US are experiencing, but this grey weather is getting me down! 😉
Anyhow, looking forward to getting to know you all! 🙂
Sherry
Hi Sherryann & elsacotton – I’ve come to 5:2 after losing a lot of weight with VLCD, but regaining 10kg late last year. I don’t want to do VLCD again I want a healthier approach that can be a sensible ongoing lifestyle – I think 5:2 might be the answer. I haven’t found the FDs difficult, but I suspect that is partly because I’ve been doing a 16:8 eating window for the last year, so having periods of time when I choose not to eat are a challenge I’ve learned to master reasonably well. I also think the experience of the drastic calorie restriction of a VLCD (800 calories per day) is not that different to 500, and at least I get to eat real food on 5:2. In fact, I think it’s easier because it’s not every day like a VLCD.
I’m at the end of week 3 and looking back over my food diary I have had 1 binge day each week (over my TDEE by 1500-2000 kilojoules – 350-500 calories). The only hopeful element of this is that I usually eat a lot more kilojoules than this on a binge. But these will still effect my overall weight loss. I find it helpful to know that I can choose to do an extra FD some weeks to counteract a binge if I want to – I usually don’t feel like eating on the day after a binge, so this is no hardship.
I would like to get to a point where binges are rare, I’m not sure if that’s a realistic hope or not. I am reassured however, that when I get to my maintenance weight I should be able to use 6:1 or more probably a 5:2 pattern to counteract any binge days and keep my weight stable. I’m hopeful about that, regardless of how the binging behaviour goes.
Hi LJoyce and all,
I start the day out well it seems and then gradually lose my resolve to fast lately. Not what I’d call bingeing, but not great either! Tomorrow I start my once a month 4 day cleanse. Lots of homemade bone broth, protein, veggies and some berries. Very healthy and it usually helps me reset both mind and body. I will probably repeat again the second week of February before I leave for Hawaii.
The grey, rainy weather here in So. Cal and my kids causing added stress lately is definitely contributing to my inability to keep my eating together. UGH! Any ideas out there?
Hi Sherryann,
I think anything that can get you to a place where you feel like you are the one in control again is a good thing. It sounds like your 4 day routine does that for you. With dieting I’ve always found that my head needs to be in the right space – sometimes my thinking fights me and sometimes it helps me.
I had a truly horrible bingeing day yesterday – I ate nearly twice my TDEE. This is the first bad binge that I’ve had since starting 5:2 three weeks ago. Previously I’ve had one day per week where my food intake has been a little high, but not too bad. I’m doing a 4:3 week to try to counteract the effect of all those extra calories. I know it’s not realistic to expect to be rid of a lifelong behaviour, but I need some better management tools than I currently seem to have.
Something to work on.
Hi everyone, and a shout out to the newcomers on this thread, welcome 🙂 I was on here for quite a while, but took a sabbatical as well 😉
Thanks so much to Lael for the research and mcca for your advice. I’m going to go with eating in some windows 16:8 and 5:2 and see how it goes. I don’t think I’m going to succeed with the advice given by the nutritionist, I found with the snacks, I was never really sure when I was hungry, so am going do without them and see how I feel. Mostly I don’t get genuine hunger until about 11am, so think I can hold out for a 3pm window.
Have a good fasting week!
T
Hi ladies,
Yes, LJoyce, therein lies the problem: trying to get in that positive headspace in order to succeed at this! So far so good today though I always do good when on my cleanse…it’s the “after the cleanse” eating when I’m left to my own devices that I have a problem with! So, I’m thinking until I get things under control more, I may need to be a bit more regimented with my NFD’s and have an actual eating plan in place instead of eating haphazardly which seems to get me in trouble. I also am learning I need to “keep it simple” with regard to my food choices on those NFD’s. When I have too much variety/go crazy making lots of new recipes, I tend to overeat. Anyone else share my dilemma?
Still rainy, grey and depressing here in San Diego. Getting sooo tired of it! Feel like I live in Seattle! I know, wahhh, but I’m not made for this type of weather for extended periods! 😉
Have a good day all!
Sherry
Hey islanders and welcome to Joyce, Elsa, and Sherry – your stories are familiar to all of us. As you said, Chubs (I think it was you🤔) you find what works for you by trying what’s worked for others. I mean, that’s our specialty, right? Tried every diet known before 5:2. And I’m always testing hypotheses as well – this morning for instance I tested whether breakfast was still a bad idea for me. Yes, it is! Like you, Queen, one thing just seemed to spur me on to another. No pure sugar though – I learned a bad lesson having valentines conversation hearts with a Diet Coke last night. Anyone remember the Mentos/DC volcanoes of science class? Yikey yikes.
So, Queen, I think we’ll always have some kind of urge to smash whatever limits we’ve placed on ourselves. The only thing that worked for me was substituting Whole Foods for crap. Darn spellcheck insists I capitalize that, but I mean the actual food not the grocery chain. Anyway, overeating fruit and whole grains is a big step up from pigging out on junk. Baby steps! Gradually the insanity eases once sugar and simple carbs are gone. When I craved sweet stuff or carbs, I just chose the whole-food version. At first it seems as though it’s just as bad, but inside, your system is adjusting. Ok, I’m really giving myself this pep talk but feel free to chime in, friends! I still think IF is good for whatever ails me – even if just the mental slumps. The self-control always makes me feel better. I mentioned it to my doc finally, and he said it was a good idea. Yay, a doc who actually keeps up with the times.
Mcca, big congrats on the healthy eating and results. I have GOT to get back fully into that, have let sugar creep in and I’m not loving the results on either my appetite or mood. Tango, I’m so sorry to hear you are battling menopause, I didn’t get too burnt by it either but my friends tried all sorts of pills, vitamins, etc. It can be so frustrating – hugs to you{{{}}} – and keep trying stuff, it’s the only way out of anything, isn’t it.
Sherry I know what you mean about gray winter days – I’m pretty sunny in disposition but February just gets my goat. I’m done with the cold, Christmas fun is over, it’s just an endless mud pit until finally the flowers pop up in March, I can’t wait – hang in there🙂🔆
Now to salvage my day by cooking something nutritious and not full of empty calories. It’s Super Bowl Sunday though OH and I don’t really care, even though the Atlanta Falcons are playing so I probably should cheer for the home team… I already watched the fun commercials online (my favorite part). But hmm, chili might be a good option anyway. Maybe chicken chili, I have a ton of the bird in my freezer, time to do something with it. Cheers to everyone, I’ll be in the rehab cave for a bit before going out on the beach again🏖🏝🌴🌴jadexxx
Dearest Queen and Jade how lovely to see you both.
And here I am eating a big slice of humble pie. In fact, not just humble pie. Cherry pie, apple pie, pork pie… really generally ALL the pies.
Because you know what happened to me after my big long triumphant post about managing both fasting and then eating whole foods on my days off? Cake. Cake is what happened. Had my big birthday, celebrated with cake (over a month ago), and let’s just say I’m still ‘celebrating’.
So no, Queen, unfortunately my silence is not because I am no longer a binger. It is because my mouth was full.
Got to get back on the waggon. Who’s with me? xx
Minka – have you tried reading ‘Brain over Binge’? I found that really helped with binge urges. Now I am just left with the fact that I am really quite greedy and love food, but there’s certainly been a release for me from the compulsion to eat stuff I am not even enjoying, which is definitely progress!
Queen – I feel for you. Being tired makes me just want to carb load and eat sugar. But I agree with you re breakfast. It’s absolutely a red flag for me. If you can possibly, just try to delay it even if you can’t skip it. Past 10am if at all possible. I find it hard but I have our lovely Jade’s words ringing in my ears whenever I struggle – “I just white knuckle it through”. Just to make the decision not to eat until a certain time and then just grit your teeth and then go for it. In two weeks you could definitely drop 5-6 lbs so don’t despair, that’s the difference between feeling uncomfortable and not for your event so definitely all is not lost! Croissants in the freezer would be just a nightmare for me. I’d probably have eaten them frozen. You did well to stop at 2.
Jade – how are you? How’s that rehab cave? Seems like it’s been pretty busy in there since January. I took my tent and a lot of supplies.
Chubs? Tango? Y’all still with us?
xx
I had a problem with serious binge eating for a long time, bingeing and starving like an eating disorder with full on 4000 calorie binges, not just over eating.
I pretty much resolved it following the program in the book Overcoming Binge Eating. Which is a CBT based program they use in eating disorder clinics, it was very effective for me.
It would have been a problem for me going into a 5:2 diet without having resolved the ED/binging as it could have just perpetuated the problem. A part of the program that resolved the eating disorder effectively for me, was very frequent regulated eating on a timetable.
It’s worth giving the book a look if you have bingeing problems. I did try books like Brain over Binge and other ideas/treatments, but they didn’t help me at all unfortunately. Maybe take a look at Overcoming Binge Eating if it’s a big issue for you.
Hopefully helpful for someone.
Also, a binger here. Emotional binger. I believe that once a binger, always a binger; however, the fast diet removed some of my physical urges to binge, while providing a “safe” outlet for binging on the non-fast day–a guilt-free permission to binge, so to speak. Besides, if one looks at fasting upside down, it itself is a form of binging, where one binges on an excess of less, not more.
Oh dear Queen, I know the feeling! Dr Jade here with some advice and love. First, if you can afford it, even at a consignment shop, get yourself an outfit that fits well and makes you feel smart, together, polished, whatever you need for this presentation. Don’t get the next size down lol, we all know how that feels, why not hang an anchor around my neck⚓️. Something new that fits well will give you a lift.
Next, right, don’t buy that sugary stuff. Buy things for kids or guests that won’t make you drool with longing – even if sugary, don’t pick the thing you know you would love to have a taste of. I know, we can overeat anything, but I can almost hear the siren call of that granola just from reading your post. I can’t have that stuff in the house either. Hell, I brought my husband home a big oatmeal cookie a week ago and so far he’s eaten HALF. Are you ****ing kidding me. No, I’m not. But luckily it’s not my fave cookie so it’s still sitting there – somehow – had it been chocolate chip, another story lol😋
And third, you are going to have to shut sugar out for the foreseeable future. And simple carbs. I hated being called an addict by others who dropped in here just to point that out and leave (right? Thanks, I never knew I had a problem when I joined THIS thread) but…we all sorta are. We form habits, our bodies get used to them, and it’s anguish not to satisfy the habit. Until you beat it by defying it day after day….as long as it takes. It took me great chunks of time, months I think. Of course I subbed fruit, peanut butter, whole grain bread, so it might’ve taken less time if I weren’t a lunatic about eating. But lol I am, and you are, so it was the tortoise’s way of detoxing, but eventually it did change me inside. I can have a doughnut now and not lose my mind. BUT I still have to warn myself that in the wrong state of mind (bad day at work, fight with OH, whatever), I wont stop at one doughnut. The good thing is that once that craziness leaves your body, you don’t have the overwhelming urge for the doughnut in the first place. Sweet freedom🌴😍
Most of all though, you need to be kind to yourself. You’re just an islander, like the rest of us, except that you also have young kiddos and are too often sleep deprived. The best you can do on days of fatigue is to roll with whole foods, NO SUGAR ADDED ones of course, and even if you overeat you will not do as much much damage. Make sure you have protein, and don’t look at the calories, just get that in your system because it’ll help keep your blood sugar from blasting off for Mars.
Whew, how is everyone else doing? And hi Chaya, love your take on fasting as a reverse binge. Nice! And Minka, hunxiety what a perfect word! Jimmy, thanks for the book rec, I too have found help there, especially Brain over Binge. It just helps to have someone acknowledge that this is a thing, and there is some science or psychology that can help. Just makes me feel cared about in a way.
Hi MCCA great to see you, and lol the humble pie. It happens😂- I always seem to go down in a heap as soon as I announce one of my epiphanies so god knows where my 16:8 will go today. Life’s an experiment, and I never bore myself that’s for sure.
So…I remember saying I couldn’t do 16:8 but it is exactly what I’m doing since I saw Dr M’s recent bit about modifying 5:2. Most important to me was that he said the overnight fast – from dinner to a late lunch next day (~18 hrs) did some good. I needed that to knock out my nighttime snack habit. And it’s not that hard! The fast is 4-5 hours after dinner, sleep, then another 4-5 hours until lunch. I’m making friends with hunger again in sort of a speed date fashion. Best thing is that it keeps me from unhinging my jaws at my weakest time – evening.
Time for my weekend chores, the cave is kind of messy today! Have a good one islanders💛🌴🔆 jadexxx
(Trying again to post this – hope it isn’t posting 48 times but I can’t see it yet.)
Oh dear Queen, I know the feeling! Dr Jade here with some advice and love. First, if you can afford it, even at a consignment shop, get yourself an outfit that fits well and makes you feel smart, together, polished, whatever you need for this presentation. Don’t get the next size down lol, we all know how that feels, why not hang an anchor around my neck⚓️. Something new that fits well will give you a lift.
Next, right, don’t buy that sugary stuff. Buy things for kids or guests that won’t make you drool with longing – even if sugary, don’t pick the thing you know you would love to have a taste of. I know, we can overeat anything, but I can almost hear the siren call of that granola just from reading your post. I can’t have that stuff in the house either. Hell, I brought my husband home a big oatmeal cookie a week ago and so far he’s eaten HALF. Are you ****ing kidding me. No, I’m not. But luckily it’s not my fave cookie so it’s still sitting there – somehow – had it been chocolate chip, another story lol😋
And third, you are going to have to shut sugar out for the foreseeable future. And simple carbs. I hated being called an addict by others who dropped in here just to point that out and leave (right? Thanks, I never knew I had a problem when I joined THIS thread) but…we all sorta are. We form habits, our bodies get used to them, and it’s anguish not to satisfy the habit. Until you beat it by defying it day after day….as long as it takes. It took me great chunks of time, months I think. Of course I subbed fruit, peanut butter, whole grain bread, so it might’ve taken less time if I weren’t a lunatic about eating. But lol I am, and you are, so it was the tortoise’s way of detoxing, but eventually it did change me inside. I can have a doughnut now and not lose my mind. BUT I still have to warn myself that in the wrong state of mind (bad day at work, fight with OH, whatever), I wont stop at one doughnut. The good thing is that once that craziness leaves your body, you don’t have the overwhelming urge for the doughnut in the first place. Sweet freedom🌴😍
Most of all though, you need to be kind to yourself. You’re just an islander, like the rest of us, except that you also have young kiddos and are too often sleep deprived. The best you can do on days of fatigue is to roll with whole foods, NO SUGAR ADDED ones of course, and even if you overeat you will not do as much much damage. Make sure you have protein, and don’t look at the calories, just get that in your system because it’ll help keep your blood sugar from blasting off for Mars.
Whew, how is everyone else doing? And hi Chaya, love your take on fasting as a reverse binge. Nice! And Minka, hunxiety what a perfect word! Jimmy, thanks for the book rec, I too have found help there, especially Brain over Binge. It just helps to have someone acknowledge that this is a thing, and there is some science or psychology that can help. Just makes me feel cared about in a way.
Hi MCCA great to see you, and lol the humble pie. It happens😂- I always seem to go down in a heap as soon as I announce one of my epiphanies so god knows where my 16:8 will go today. Life’s an experiment, and I never bore myself that’s for sure.
So…I remember saying I couldn’t do 16:8 but it is exactly what I’m doing since I saw Dr M’s recent bit about modifying 5:2. Most important to me was that he said the overnight fast – from dinner to a late lunch next day (~18 hrs) did some good. I needed that to knock out my nighttime snack habit. And it’s not that hard! The fast is 4-5 hours after dinner, sleep, then another 4-5 hours until lunch. I’m making friends with hunger again in sort of a speed date fashion. Best thing is that it keeps me from unhinging my jaws at my weakest time – evening.
Time for my weekend chores, the cave is kind of messy today! Have a good one islanders💛🌴🔆 jadexxx
ps hi ratatouille, thanks☺️love your name, big fan of the dish too😋
Hi Queen,
Chronic sleep deprivation is also why you are struggling to lose weight according to Jason Fung. What can you do to reduce this?
Have you tried menu planning for the family for the week, but dishing up your portion without the pasta or rice? My very dear friend has lost 5 stone simply by not eating pasta/rice/bread/potatoes and she has gone from ditching toast for breakfast to omelette and now usually has nothing or sometimes a piece of fruit.
I have recently staggered round a local half marathon(3 hours, so not fast) and stopped fasting and eating more carbs, that habit continued and then I slid back to biscuits to dunk in my tea, pudding at lunchtime and then found that chocolate was leaping into my hand when I stopped for milk on the way home from work.
There is no doubt that the sweet stuff switches on the need for more and more. Think about what is going to send your insulin soaring and that also includes pasta/rice. Ditch them all for a week, get more sleep, reduce stress in your life and see how much better you will feel.
I am starting a 24 hour fast after dinner tonight, which essentially means that I will miss breakfast and lunch tomorrow before I will enjoy dinner tomorrow evening. Have a look at Jason Fung-The Obesity Code, he is right, it works, nothing weird or miserable.
Hi all,
Apologies as have been lurking, some great pearls of wisdom as usual. Queen, I can totally relate to tiredness causing cravings. I’m hypothyroid and since January have had all the low thyroid symptoms: depressed, lack of energy and slow metabolism, usually the medication keeps this at bay, but sometimes it all goes out of kilter, like now, luckily have managed to get a blood test and Dr has upped my dosage, it’s a big drag though as takes a while to kick in….Anyway, I’ve been grabbing at chocolate on a daily basis to keep me going, and it’s become a bad habit, and have put on quite a few pounds sadly…I’m very keen to get back on track, as I tend to be an ’emotional’ eater anyway, so eat on different feelings. Jade I agree with the window, sounds manageable and all the people I know who appear to be quite slim skip breakfast. it might take a while to get used to but think it sounds like a good way to deal with hunger pangs without too much deprivation…
plagiarised from another thread “If hunger is not the problem, food is not the answer’ (very true in my case)
Have a lovely Sunday, UK has sunny weather today 🙂 have been out for a run to celebrate…xxx love to all on the island
Tango xxxx
hi there,
buuuu! just lost a post. Was going to say Queen, can totally relate to the tiredness. I’m hypothyroid and since xmas have had all the low thyroid symptoms: lack of energy, low mood, slow metabolism. Have been relying on chocolate to get me through the day, and hence obvious weight gain. Luckily got a blood test and Dr has upped dose so should be back on track, hopefully, over the next few weeks. I’m an emotional eater anyway, so eat on a lot of feelings! but 5:2 has worked to reduce my binge mentality. Jade, I agree with the 16:8, it seems to be a manageable and makes me feel less deprived, and quite a few slim people I know skip breakfast.
love you and leave you, sunny day here in the UK, and have tried to make the most of it by going for a run.
Tango xxx
“Thanks for the book recommendation jimmy p. I am so glad you have things under control now, that must have taken some time, and well done. Are you able to keep things like chocolate granola in the house and not eat it all?!!!”
Yes it was quite hard work but the problem had got out of control at the end, very bad, so I was really motivated. I was fortunate too to find something that worked for me. I still eat on the timetable I followed to help with the binge eating, when I’m not doing the fast days. That’s quite a strong habit now really. So I don’t eat like a ‘normal person’ but I’m not suffering badly with the ED so I don’t really mind.
I can keep ‘problem’ foods in the house, though I tend not to because I still causally overeat them, even if I’m not bingeing. I do go out of my way to eat some of these ‘binge foods’ occasionally though, as that helps prevent the bingeing. If I eat a small pizza now and again I won’t end up saying, “no more pizza ever”, but sooner or later end up eating two large Dominos in one go!!
Hi everyone!
Jimmy – thanks for the Overcoming Binge Eating suggestion, I’ll definitely be giving that one a try. I love all the ideas and suggestions on this thread, it’s great to try all of them cos one of them eventually sticks I find!
Hey Chaya, welcome to the thread. Interesting take on reverse bingeing!
Jade! Jade! Lovely Jade. Any room in that paddling pool? I too am having food tantrums and “no, I will not get on those scales”. WILLING myself to be brave enough to do so, I know they are going to say things I don’t like.
Queen – thinking of you and I hope your event went well.
Annette – great to see you back on the Island! Been thinking of you as I too try to have less of the Devil’s Dandruff (sugar).
Tango – very wise words, “if hunger is not the problem, food is not the answer” – I think I will add that to my little list of sayings to remind myself of.
Groundhog day again for me. Not been fasting but need to get back on it. Been managing to delay breakfast at least which is my only consolation….
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Michael Mosley gives an update for 2019, current research in the field and announces a tour starting in February.
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10 Jan 17