a tale of two metabolisms

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a tale of two metabolisms

This topic contains 7 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  JIPWGP 9 years, 11 months ago.

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  • Hi all, I lost 1/2 pound this week, so 37 pounds lost in 38 weeks so far, 9-14 pounds still to lose. Feeling good about my progress. The number on the scale doesn’t go down every week, but it does keep going down if I carry on.

    My 23-year old son and I are both about the same weight now, but the amount we each eat is wildly different. He’s 5’7″ and 125 pounds, BMI 19.6 (he’s a former preemie with GI problems who has had difficulty gaining weight since infancy, was on supplemental tube feedings for most of his childhood and early adolescence). I’m 57 years old, female, and 119 pounds, BMI 20.4.

    At the “lightly active” level (we both probably fit somewhere between light and moderate in terms of how much activity we do), my TDEE is 1526 calories and his is 2091 calories — that’s right, since he’s male, 34 years younger, is 3 inches taller, and weighs 6 more pounds, he needs 525 more calories per day than I do just to maintain his weight — he can eat 37% more than I can and not gain weight! He would like to *gain* a little weight if he could, if he can put it on as muscle, but, no matter how much he does intense upper-body workouts, he just doesn’t build muscle where he wants it, and doesn’t gain weight.

    The difference in our caloric intake on our non-fasting days is probably even more than 500 calories, though. We eat about the same amount for dinner except that he’ll have 3 scoops of ice cream for dessert to my 1 scoop. That’s probably at least half of the 500 calories right there.

    My breakfast? Oh, say, 150 grams each of low-fat greek yogurt and thawed frozen fruit mixed together plus coffee with half-and-half for maybe 300 calories. His? Maybe a breakfast burrito he makes with bacon, eggs, cheddar cheese, leftover roasted potatoes and hot sauce wrapped in a large flour tortilla, plus the coffee with half-and-half.

    My lunch? Oh, say, 35-45 grams of cheese on 3 lavash whole-grain crackers and a large serving of leftover jicama salad or an orange, coming in at 300-400 calories. His lunch? A grilled cheese sandwich and a banana. I guess I should point out that, while he no longer needs the tube feedings, he is still on a prescribed high-fat, calorie-dense diet.

    OK, so I’m losing weight right now; since the fast days only cut out about 2000 calories per week for me and I’ve been averaging a pound a week weight loss, the other 1500 calories must come from the increased walking plus a bit of calorie restriction on most non-fasting days, but still.

    And I remember being able to eat the way he does (well, OK, maybe not *every* day, but at least some days) at his age and stay at 105-107 pounds… as a matter of fact, if I was still his age, and weighed what I do now, my TDEE would be 1760 calories instead of 1526… yup, if I was just younger, I could eat 200 more calories per day (15% more) and not gain weight.

    But somehow all those calories just burn off him… and I remember when the same thing would happen to me… people are just different, one from another, and the passing years change things! So, I remind myself that most of the enjoyment of a food seems to come in the first couple of bites. ‘Cuz I do like good food. Just can’t eat so much of it any more 😉

    Hi franfit, when my husband was a boy of 15 he was a 6 stone weakling (as they say) and he worked in a milk bottling plant with free milk as much as he wanted, he used to drink a milk called Gold Top full cream milk plus anything else he could get his hands on, (he still eats me out of house and home and he is 70 next birthday) any way I digress < he went on to be a17 stone black belt in judo in his twenties and then decided to change in his 30’s to running and joined a running club he has lost 6 stone and as run more marathons and half marathons than I care to count. So tell your son to try the full fat milk plus all the others, ice cream is good Liz Taylor used to gain a lot of weight when she went off the rails during her career. I wish your son good health and happy fasting to you. JIP

    Hi franit:

    Here is a program on the overfeeding of slim people, and why they still don’t get fat. One of the most interesting programs I’ve seen in a long while: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/why-are-thin-people-not-fat/.

    Enjoy (and be amazed).

    simcoeluv, thank you for this, I think it makes a number of really fascinating points.

    I found the infectious disease hypothesis really interesting because, about 14 years ago, after several years at a steady weight, I gained 50 pounds (~37% increase in body weight) in a just a few months when I developed several medical problems at once, one of which was CFS/ME, which is still a complete medical mystery. Once I had an angioplasty of my renal arteries and stopped being completely somnolent, I was able to lose 30 of those pounds (16% of new body weight) fairly easily, just by making sure I ate 5 servings of veg and 3 of fruit every day, thus cutting down the more calorific stuff, getting down from the obese category to the overweight category, but then my weight loss stalled until I found 5:2 — daily portion control/calorie restriction only let me lose a pound a month and left me constantly hungry, so was unsustainable.

    My son and I both seem to be constitutional non-snackers; if we’re not hungry, we don’t eat. It is, in fact, very difficult to over-feed him. When his GI problems were getting sorted out in late infancy/early toddlerhood, he was put on a calorie-dense diet, which he remains on to this day. Cooking and serving this put 10 pounds on me, but not an ounce on him. Tube feed him overnight, he would just eat less by mouth during the day. He needed a special fast-digesting formula at a slow speed overnight (too fast and he’d just regurgitate it) in order to also eat enough in the daytime to be able to grow. But he didn’t need an unusually large number of calories in order to grow, he just has GI dysmotility that makes him feel full too fast, which made it impossible for him to eat enough to grow. Fortunately, he is able to eat enough to maintain, and does not require the tube feedings as an adult.

    Most of my weight gain has been due to medical problems, medications, pregnancy, and the calorie-dense diet I cooked and served for many years, although the last two were probably responsible for only 10 pounds each, and I lost the weight I first put on because of my son’s diet once I realized what was going on. Before that I was really small, BMI averaging around 18.2. A number of people in my family have string-bean physiques, although on my father’s side that seems to change for some reason in their late 20s, after which they can put on a lot of weight, especially if they drink a lot of alcohol. Other members of my family are chubby, and snackers, from early childhood. I would say that my son and I are also both constitutional fidgeters, although medical problems and excess weight can really slow down my fidgeting. I would say that some medications can cause weight gain even if you go on a calorie-reduced diet at the time you start taking them, at least for some people; that has been my experience, at least. You would think that more doctors would pay attention to the weight-gain side effects of some medications in light of the obesity epidemic, at least in their patients who are at risk for type 2 diabetes.

    Now that I’m at a weight my body hasn’t seen in 25 years, about 12% above my young adult baseline weight (BMI 20.3 now, 18.2 then), my weight loss has slowed from an average of a pound a week to about a half pound a week. Of course I’m not hauling as much weight around when I walk, so I’m burning off fewer calories that way, even if I can walk faster now. But I’m also physically hungrier on non-fasting days. I may decide that my target for weight loss should actually be 5-10% above my young adult baseline (BMI 18.9-19.7). Right now I can still see the extra fat in my belly and my face, and my belly still *feels* fat, at least some of the time. So still 3 to 8 more pounds to go, I think. Maybe I’m not supposed to be quite the same weight at 58 as I was at 18 and 28.

    One question I’m left with is how long it takes your body to decide that your new weight is the right weight for you. For example, when I was able to take off 30 pounds fairly easily, was that because I had only gained that weight within the previous 18 months? Then what made the weight loss stop? When I reach my goal weight, I still want to fast for the health benefits, so I don’t have trouble with the idea of feeling hungry once a week doing 6:1 to maintain my weight loss, but, after losing more than 40 pounds (25% of starting weight), is it possible that I’ll need to do more than that to maintain my weight loss? I’m thinking that the answer may be yes, and hoping that a couple of days a week of 16:8 in addition to one true fasting day might keep my insulin level under control, because I’d rather not have to start counting and restricting carbs, which I see as the other option for controlling the hunger beast. Just curious what your thoughts are on this, because I don’t recall the documentary addressing this.

    Do you know if there is a transcript of the documentary anywhere? I would like to go over some of the points again without having to re-watch the whole thing, even though it was fascinating to watch.

    Hi franfit:

    I’ll take the one I know the answer to first – I don’t know where you might find a transcript of the documentary. I do think many overweight people should watch it, if only to gain an understanding that their weight problem may not be entirely their fault, and that their efforts to lose weight may take more work than they think it should.

    Your question on your quick weight loss followed by what is really a plateau is one that comes up quite often. Most plateaus are really caused by water retention issues. But there are many reported plateaus such as yours that occur after a substantial weight loss and last for a substantial period of time that cannot be attributed to water retention/dehydration. I am aware of no research that has come up with an answer as to why these plateaus occur. We know that if you are eating nothing, or an extremely low calorie diet (really a starvation diet) weight loss will continue unabated until the body hits about 5% body fat, and will even continue after that, but at a slower pace. There will be no plateau. So it seems it may have something to do with the body readjusting its TDEE downward so the amount of food being eaten just is too much to cause weight loss. Some people report they ‘keep on keeping on’ and the weight loss resumes, but most report they have to do something different to restart the weight loss. Many of the ‘differences’ include eating fewer calories than they were eating before.

    As for your other question on maintenance, thoughts are the best I have, and they aren’t all that helpful. It seems to me the sad fact is that our bodies just don’t need that many calories to survive and prosper. As overweight people, we have lived in a world where all the food we wanted was available all of the time. We have not only learned to enjoy eating that food, we have incorporated eating in to the fabric of our social lives. To lose that weight is hard, but to keep it off is really harder because it means we have to forego the enjoyment of eating and to adjust our social lives, too. No meeting friends at the pub for dinner and pints, at least without serious calorie restriction later on to negate the fun we had at the pub. No three scoops of ice cream, because while it tastes great, it will cause unwanted results. Just 100 calories a day over TDEE leads to 10 pounds a year in weight gain. And this doesn’t even address the use of food as a drug, really, to help with emotional issues, and on and on.

    The ‘simple’ answer to your maintenance question, which you know, of course, is to average eating your TDEE or below each week. How to do that is the 64,000 dollar question (old game show reference).

    I am interested in a recent study I mentioned here – http://thefastdiet.co.uk/forums/topic/52-calorie-restriction-v-fasting-for-newbies/ – about half way down (now) in a response to Nina. The study indicated that it might be possible to use time between eating on a daily basis as a weight loss, or perhaps weight control, tool. I’m up for anything that might help!

    I appreciate your posts. They are very helpful and right on.

    Take care.

    great post .love reading it

    simcoeluv, thank you for your answers and the compliments 🙂 The study you referred me to is quite interesting. Eating several small meals a day always sounded like a prescription for weight gain to me, but mostly because I figure you don’t really cut as many calories out of your regular meals as you add in in your snacks, but in this study, the calories were the same, but the weight loss (and other benefits) were greater in the 2-meals-a-day, sounds like 14- or 16-hour fasting windows in each day. Interesting that they ate breakfast and lunch, it seems like most of us prefer to eat dinner, which is the most frequent social eating occasion, I think, too. I guess I’m lucky that I don’t drink alcohol and don’t feel like eating beyond fullness at social occasions. My weight loss has basically slowed to the amount you would expect from 2 fasting days a week, it was always a bit of a mystery to me how I was managing to lose a whole pound a week for all those weeks to begin with, so I’m not worried, just an impatient sort who wants to get to goal and get on to the next phase. It sounds from that article that my idea of adding some 16:8 days (which means 2 meals on those days, for me) might be the ticket to maintenance if 6:1 turns out not to be enough. That I believe I could manage just fine, I now find doing a 16:8 day easy, and I used to be quite the breakfast eater. It would be interesting if my body eventually (like, after a couple of years?) decides that my new (lower) weight is the right weight and maintaining it begins to come naturally. I guess most people don’t maintain a big weight loss long enough to ever get to that point. I would be discouraged by that if I didn’t hope it will be different with the 5:2 to 6:1 plan. I have given away all my large sized clothes, so I can’t afford to re-gain my weight — I will *have* to keep it off! 😉

    Hi franfit just butting in here, I have friend now in her 80’s who says she lost wieght in her 60’s and she has never put it back on, also she says she thinks the first 3 years she was convinced she would gain it. She is a tall elegant lady and I want to tread in her footsteps, it’s 3 years for me in July being at goal or there about (with-in) 5 of it. And I hope it is a magic number.
    Can you explain the 16-8 how and when you eat please. I am changing my eating times and I would also like to do a whey drinks only on a fast day. But I have to cook for a very hungry husband who can eat me out of house and home everything smells nice. Mmmmmmm. Fasting today. JIP

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