And salt and yeast, for completeness! I guess I could have baked it as a loaf or rolls if I hadn’t rolled it out for pizza base.
This topic contains 11,642 replies, has 174 voices, and was last updated by Pollypenny 3 weeks, 6 days ago.
Sorry to hear that Carol! Not surprised though, as they aren’t common over here. Most shops sell chocolate brazil nuts, but they just don’t do it for me anymore. I know of two shops that sells the carob version, and only one of those is worth walking over hot coals for!
On another food related note. I have used spelt flour for the first time this week. I did a semi-fast yesterday (probably one third to half TDEE) but ate spelt flour pizza bases so didn’t know if I would see any difference. Am 0.8kg down on yesterday morning! So looks like no water retention from the flour. Amd not ravenous this morning, as is usually after processed carbs. Obviously spelt is less refined, and reduced but not gluten free? Early days, but makes me wonder if I can reintroduce bread products so long as they are primitive.
I couldn’t even find choc Brazil nuts (probably need to go to the choc shop) but plenty of choc covered dry fruit! Re spelt: unless you are coeliac a lot of people can use spelt flour without side effects. My educated guess is for some people it’s the chemicals used in processing the White flour rather than the actual flour that is the culprit. I seem to be OK with sourdough bread in moderation.
Carolannfud, HappyNow – interesting. Some people who have difficulty with the FODMAPS in wheat flour can cope with the lower levels in spelt flour (altho’ much will always depend upon portion size and the FODMAPS content of the rest of the diet).
I remember making chocolate brazils 🙂 All that faffing about with toothpicks and forks. 🙂
If I want chocolate with fruit or nuts, that’s what I serve myself. The squares of chocolate with a portion of fruit/nuts and I chomp them together. 🙂 It works for me. Of course, it doesn’t reproduce some of the chocolate that’s now available with various gourmet oils and flavourings but I can’t always taste those properly.
I have a fondness for Green & Black’s chocolate dusted almonds – I have to admit that I haven’t tried dipping toasted almonds in cocoa powder, maybe I should. 🙂
Just catching up as I wait for the loaf to finish cooking before bed.
OH, who has not eaten gluten for 20 years, can tolerate small amounts of my sourdough. I’ll have to try him on the spelt nexy loaf.
After a day of 38deg (over 50 in the sun) we now have a cool 23 at 10pm as our lovely southerly has cooled us down. Our house is timber with huge windows so when the outside temp drops I fling them open.
Have had a lovely evening swimming and bbq with the family. The little granddaughters love the pool and sausages it seems 🙂
Bread’s ready. Night all. P
ps I’m not a chocolate eater, but the nuts…mmmm….
re the non modern / refined wheat bread thing.. I find that I can enjoy my spelt / rye bread.. but I do tend to limit it to the weekend.. just to keep me focused during the week on Veg / seafood / healthy levels of protein and healthy levels of phyto nutrients etc. My sour dough is quite a substantial loaf as I also add caraway, sunflower and pumkin seeds and use some sunflower oil in it instead of all water.. I even include some molasses for a deeper taste .. I suspect it’s quite nutritious .. Also far more sustaining than your average shop bought bread.. Also because I use sunflower oil the bread keeps really really well in the fridge.. so I still have the end of last weekend’s loaf lurking in there.
My other theory is that the slow prove means the yeast and lacto bacteria in the culture consume the sugars so you’re effectively eating the metabolised / converted product not the sugar itself.. supermarket / mass produced read has a very very accelerated prove so has much higher levels of sugar in it.
Funnily nuts have a strange effect on me… if I eat them on a fast day they i find it really difficult to stop eating them… and I then seem to have a mild allergic reaction to them much as I did with modern wheat.. very sneezy and blocked sinuses. I can pick on them on non fast days but find them “dangerous” on a fast day.
Zuzan, your sourdough sounds gorgeous: how close to me do you live???
This chocolate thread is getting a bit dangerous for me…think I need to avert my eyes…My particular fancy is Lindt 90% cocoa chocolate: it’s not to everyone’s taste -quite bitter as it’s very high cocoa/low sugar – but I have become quite addicted and now find all other chocolate far too sweet, so perhaps that’s not so bad. I tell myself that 1 square on FDs, 2 on NFDs, are giving me good nutrients and not too many baddies, as long as it stops there….but cocoa dusted almonds and carob brazils might just tip me into over-indulgence. I shall go under the duvet till the subject changes…….
Fascinating zuzan
I agree about home made sourdough. ..very substantial, keeps a long time and a different animal completely to shop bought breads. Although last night’s, baked late after a scorcher of a day, is a little rock. I’m wondering if it was too dry. I’m guessing it probably should be quite tacky when kneading to allow the delicate natural yeasts to be able to push through the dough?
We’ll eat it anyway.
As to nuts….that’s exactly what I’m finding. Haven’t had them for most of the last 20 months, but in the last month we’ve had salted peanuts in the house. I CANNOT eat just one on a fast day. It is the only food that this happens with. I become obsessed with them, even the residue salt, and my sinuses are dodgy. I got rid of them (read as consumed) and now OH has replaced them with salted cashews. Not quite the same addiction so I’ll steer clear on fast days. I wondered if I was craving the salt, but maybe it was the evil peanuts 🙁 P
Actually the loaf was lovely and very tangy for rising for so long.
OH had bought some pickled foods and kefir when shopping at a fancy providores. We all had fun mixing and matching the flavours last night. It was surprising how sophisticated the little kids palates are and how conservative the men’s are! Keep well P
Related to the previous discussion about the boundary line between appropriate vigilance and eating disorders, there’s a slightly OT but germane podcast discussion about functional MRI and the brain patterns of people who’ve had eating disorders and their post-recovery reaction to food. Sadly, the podcast quality is so abysmal that it’s not possible to follow much of it.
http://www.biolayne.com/podcasts/physique-science-radio-episode-8-eating-disorders/
The name of the researcher they’re interviewing is Megan Klabunde. One of the interesting parts of the podcast was around the topic of why intuitive eating didn’t work for one of the podcast interviewers and possible correlations to neurobiology.
Thanks, Ssure: that sounds interesting and I’ll try to access it.
Along different, but equally topical, lines, yesterday’s Guardian had a report of a UK study in which people whose BMI had been previously calculated were asked to say into which weight category (under- / normal / mildly over- / very over- / obese) they thought they fitted. The largest proportion underestimated, and the report concluded that – as some of us have previously suggested – we have become so used to being around fat people that many of us have lost any sense of what’s a normal weight and size. Good to know that as a group we’re prophetic and right (!) , not just a load of skinny weirdos…!
Can I now pick the group brain about migraine, please? Missing meals has always been a trigger for me, and I was concerned when I started 5:2 that it might not suit me for that reason. Very happy to find no problem – perhaps because I’m eating mindfully on other days? However, a day out yesterday (NFD) which included a film, a car journey with sunlight reflected fiercely off wet roads, and an ill-advised sugar rush (all triggers individually, let alone together – stupid woman!) added up to an absolute blinder which started about 1am. It’s under control now, thanks to the little pink pills, but still there, waiting to pounce – this is obviously set to be a 3-day-er. I should be fasting today, but definitely no can do, and not going to beat myself up: in a minuteI shall go in search of the fish finger sandwich for which my head and gut.are screaming, and postpone FD till it passes. Any advice (other than spending my days off More sensibly, which I know, I know…) from my friends? Any useful experience to share? I’m sure the topic is probably aired so where on the 5:2 website, but I’m particularly interested in how it affects us as ‘maintainers’, rather than ‘active losers’.
Hi FastFastSlow,
So sorry to hear about the migraine. I’m afraid I have no experience of migraine, and actually don’t know anyone who suffers, so have absolutely nothing useful to say! Just thought I ought to at least rule myself out here…
re: reality vs perception. Just because we’re right doesn’t mean we aren’t a bunch of skinny weirdos 🙂
Hi fastslow
I suffered from migraines for years. I eventually realised they were purely hormone induced. The result of heading towards menopause. I would be quite blinded by them and had to take heavy duty drugs at lunchtime to make it to the end of the working day. Then I discovered Remifemin, a herbal mix. Brilliant.
Once I got into my 50s they subsided. Haven’t had one in years. Food seemed to make no difference, but I think dehydration does. I often thought they were caused by my neck, but I think the next pain was a result not a cause. Dark room and rest is the answer.
So sorry I can’t be of more help, but I sure feel your pain and hope it goes quickly. P x
Good grief. Had no breakfast, very little Vietnamese spring rolls at lunch. We worked flat out moving all our crockery, casseroles, serving platters, glasses upstairs for some work downstairs. Decided to go to one of the many local Korean places for dinner to include fermented foods in our diet. Had a really lovely meal, then couldn’t wait to get home to unzip my jeans….massive stomach cramps. Haven’t experienced this at all since I started 5:2 and I don’t think I ate much and mostly veg 🙁 Not fair….P
Thanks Carol. Don’t know. Settling down now. I think it was too much food on an empty tum. Normally a fast day would end with very little food. I was trying to do Happy’s system a couple of days running. ..eat in a window of 8 hours in the afternoon as I can’t fast properly due to commitments this week :(. Didn’t work. P
Hi again Carol
Fermented foods are supposed to improve your gut bacteria to improve many modern autoimmune situations. Korean food is always served with a range of fermented vegs. The main one is kimchi…fermented cabbage. We have started making them ourselves. It utilises the same natural bugs as sourdough. One more example of traditional food people don’t eat any more.
Feeling fine now…watching the Countdown 40 Year show. Great memories! P
FastFastSlow – I developed migraine after head trauma so it’s probably not the same.
“Any advice (other than spending my days off More sensibly, which I know, I know…) from my friends? Any useful experience to share? ”
The thing is, you do know what to do and you obviously manage it very well. I only got control of mine when I radically shifted the macronutrients of what I ate to be moderate protein, low-to moderate carb and the balance as fat. I genuinely wouldn’t recommend this unless you have no option as the level of micromanagement is profoundly irritating and interferes with social activities in the early stages.
In my implementation, I probably have quite moderate levels of insulin release as I’d estimate that I rarely eat >450kcals in one meal.
I’d say that people might experiment with keeping the blood sugar levels more or less stable and with keeping their insulin release within bounds and see if this makes a difference (it’s been tried for a range of neurological conditions). This does mean meals that don’t exceed a particular calorie count or macronutrient make-up of the sort that would perturb your blood sugar unduly – where ‘unduly’ is different for each of us.
As I said – it gets messy, micromanaging and a bore very quickly. If you’ve normally got good control doing what you’re doing then maybe tweaking your diet within that would be sufficient? Maybe never eating more than (say) 500kcals in one sitting? But, I don’t know.
Hi P,
Sorry to hear you had an adverse reaction to your meal. It’s often difficult to know what causes such things. Glad you’re feeling better though.
I’ve been thinking about how to manage Christmas this year (I started fasting in January last year following last Christmas’s excesses 🙂 ). We’re at home this year, so I will be in charge of meals but I know I’ll have a few mince pies, more alcohol than I ought, the Orange and pistachio stollen, some honeyed Christmas cake, etc etc.
Obviously I can up the fasting after Christmas to repair damage done. But it occurs to me that I could do a few fast days in the run up and have some credit in the bank. But would that be a stupid thing to do? To drop to a new low so that I could then overeat to my maintenance weight?
HappyNow – ” But would that be a stupid thing to do? To drop to a new low so that I could then overeat to my maintenance weight?”
Who knows? I’ve seen a fair number of people do that to give themselves a buffer for a holiday/special event.
As far as I’m aware, it works.
However, I don’t think anyone can assess the wisdom of this because it depends on so many factors. If you lose body fat rather than lean body mass (LBM) or mostly body fat, then the regained weight, altho’ it’s likely to be body fat, won’t make much difference. But, and this is a substantial *but*, if a significant part of the loss were to be LBM (for whatever reason), then it’s not good if that’s replaced by body fat.
The difference this makes would depend on several factors: e.g., the amount of LBM someone already has; someone’s overall weight and body composition; whether or not there’s a history of metabolic syndrome or vulnerabilities to it.
If none of the above is relevant, and there’s a good chance it isn’t, there’s no reason to think this isn’t a reasonable strategy.
Happy, unless your “Christmas” lasts for an extended period of time due to lots of social commitments, I don’t think two or three days over eating is going to cause too much damage. I don’t need to tell you that you would have to over eat/drink 2300kcals for three days to put on a couple of pounds and I am sure you can deal with this unlikely fall out in January. You have all the means in the world to put things right again.
Sorry about the migraines and dodgy stomach.. hope everyone recovers quickly..
Re Christmas.. Just had a look back at my log from last year as was in the middle of fasting to loose weight then..
So my eating and drinking pattern was this..
Monday fast – quarter of TDEE and limited eating to evening window between 6pm and 8pm
Tues – ate just below my TDEE but healthy / lots of veg and sustaining protein and again only in my evening eating window of 6pm – 8pm
Wed – Christmas – Skipped breakfast all food eaten as late Christmas lunch between 3pm and 8pm – ate about 1.5 x TDEE (easy to not go to excess as portion control was by that time ensuring even with the odd mince pie, christmas pud, and associated alcohol I didn’t really go much over my TDEE
Thu – ate within my TDEE
Fri – Fasted.. veg soup only in evening about 150 Kcal of my 2000 TDEE..
Sat – ate only in the evening and a quarter of my TDEE..
Sun – Luxury brunch of scrambled egg and smoked salmon on rye and then christmas leftovers ate within my TDEE
This year I think I’ll try and do something similar just to give me leeway and help with the portion control thing of the goodies like Christmas pud and mince pies..
Re getting down to bottom range of safe weight .. wild / feral horses do this every year over winter and it helps them stay safe (avoid the terrors of laminitis) when the spring grass kicks in.. ok they’re herbivores and trickle feeders but it certainly helps protect them and they suffer no health issues .. I try and emulate this with my horse to certain extent without becoming victim of the SSPCA .. I don’t panic when she drops weight usually in late winter / very early spring .. I plan on implementing this with me too now… unless someone can prove that it isn’t healthy..
Of course there is the other issue that I don’t have scales and do not have ANY faith in BMI calcs as I’m a bit of non standard shape ..
Hi MCs
Happy, I’m with zuzan. Last Christmas we had early celebrations here in Sydney then went interstate for a week to have real Christmas with more family and their extended family. We knew there would be a lot of excess and were both almost at goal after 8 months on 5:2, so we did ADF before we flew out and, similar to zuzan, we simply ate at odd hours, fasting when on our own and being moderate when at the many ‘dos’. Mind you, I was given some home made flaky cheese biscuits and as OH can’t eat them I demolished them in 2 days. Delicious! I figured it got rid of the temptation!
As the modern Aussie xmas includes lots of seafood and fresh fruits it makes it easier, but there was still a lot of delicious carb and nut based yummies on offer.
We came home thinking we would have put on masses, but no, maybe a kg or 2. We took about a month to recover our downward spiral again. Not too bad. We reached goal finally in April. It would have been sooner without xmas, but we had a lovely time.
I like having OH’s daily blood sugar levels as a guide as, if it creeps up at all these days (say just over 6), we know to cut out everything but fish and salad and drink only one glass of wine that day. Today’s result after the Korean will be interesting. P
I’m wondering though if I create a bit extra wriggle room in advance, that I might like the new low and might then want to maintain that. But it does sound like a plan to have a few proper fasts in the run up, just to be in good habits and mindset if nothing else.
P, how are the guts today? And the weigh in? And not forgetting the back? And the eyes?
I’m hoping my tomorrow morning weigh in might buck the normal weekend trend. This evening’s meal was puy lentils with roasted beetroot and salsa verde (had to cook some meat for OH though!). And I had a longer run this afternoon. So I’m hopeful I won’t be the usual 3lbs heavier! Would be great to start the week from a position of not being on the back foot…!
Hi Happy, I hadn’t given xmas eating a thought until you mentioned – thanks! LOL. I think some wriggle room is a good idea and other than that fast if you can and make sensible choices. I think you’ll find its not going to be as bad as you think. I ate and drank everything we’re not meant to for a week when I was away earlier this year and put on 1.5kg, which is pretty easy to get rid of. Monitor the weight and fast or moderate intake when you see you need to. I’m sure it will be absolutely fine. The thing is our bodies have changed so much now I doubt you will want to eat the way you might have in Christmases past. Cheers, Carol
Carol’s right Happy. You know you eat differently now.
Thanks for the hospital call! I sound like an old crock 🙁
Eyes: 90%
Back:70%, but I did do a lot of carrying yesterday.
Tummy: 100% and flat!!! 🙂
Weight: 57.7 pretty good post weekend! 🙂
You will like the lower weight. Mine keeps slowly lowering even though I’m just trying to maintain under 60. I guess I’m meant to be lighter! Cheers all P
Hi Carol, yes of course you’re right about altered preferences and habits now. I know what feels like a binge or a pigout now is a pale shadow of what it was a year ago!
I think I’m just remembering (and fearing!) Christmases past, when we had getting on for 10 days with friends and family…cooked breakfast most days, lunch, evening meal (carb and meat heavy) with pudding and cheese to follow, with a liberal scattering of mince pies, cakes and chocolate, all washed down with a vat of alcohol… Been for a walk? You’ll be needing a sloe gin/ hot toddy…and a mince pie or two!
This year I’m in control though. Bring it on (she squeaks…)
Morning All (for me anyway!),
Feeling happy this morning as last night’s lentil meal did the trick and this morning am comfortably below my upper threshold. Pleased to be going to the office feeling slim and not carb sluggish.
We have a group meeting today, and I know someone is taking birthday cakes. They will be shop bought (mass produced, not local bakery) and won’t tempt me but I know from past experience that there are 2 or 3 people who will happily eat 2 or 3 cakes during the meeting and will then vacuum up any left overs during the rest of the day. A perfect study of mindless eating and the addictive power of sugar…
On a FODMAPS-related note – I should know better than to eat cabbage more than once in a week. One portion a week = fine. 2 portions with a mere 48 hrs between = not at all fine.
Note to self, don’t be lazy – blanch and freeze the remainder of the cabbage, don’t just serve it again to use it up. I’ve set up more time-suck workarounds now that I can’t have the meal that I was planning for this evening because the otherwise acceptable FODMAPS content would be too much in my present condition and I need to plan something else for those ingredients/left-overs. So, I didn’t save any time at all – I’ve created more inconvenience. I must learn from this. :doh:
Appetite is OK but I’m having a rough time with cramps and relative bloating so it’s probably just as well that this is a fast day.
As maintainers, you’ll understand this – my waist was up a couple of inches this morning and is only now beginning to deflate. I know that I used to cope with horrible and much more substantial bloat on a regular basis but I’m no longer accustomed to it, so this still feels uncomfortable tho’ it could be far worse. It’s odd how the additional real estate out front (so to speak) makes my lower back the more painful – it feels like its thrown my centre of gravity out of whack. 🙂
Sorry, to hear you are not too comfortable, @ssure. Just wondering, have you got any news about your surgery? I know you are anxious about it. Have you managed to delay until the next year?
Lichtle – sheer reluctance and lack of trust underpin the lack of scheduled surgery. I know it’s asinine but I haven’t fully worked out the details of how I’d cope with the rehab so I haven’t booked the surgery. Nor will I until I fancy my chances better than I do at present. So, I’ll keep on planning and researching until my confidence has reached a nebulous point where the risks outweigh the (potential) benefits of further delay…
HappyNow – back in the day, I could bloat more than 9 inches around my waist and it would extend up over my ribs – now, that was uncomfortable. This is much smaller but it still feels off kilter even tho’ I don’t need to rest my stomach on a floor cushion nor feel like I’m the surrogate mother for a whale pregnancy.
On the upside – I’m so grateful that this sort of reaction is now such a rarity for me rather than everyday. Both FODMAPS and fasting have transformed that part of my life for me and I’m so grateful.
On the downside, it is unfortunate that so many tasty and interesting carbohydrates have this irritating effect – particularly the affordable ones. 🙂
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Michael Mosley gives an update for 2019, current research in the field and announces a tour starting in February.
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