Hi HappyNow

No, you haven’t offended me but I do take exception at some of the statements you have been making lately on this thread. There have been others previously which I felt were inappropriate also but let them go.

I do not think you are ‘smug’ – unlike you, I am extremely careful in my choice of words on this forum. However, if you read the wording of my post properly, I do feel the type of statements, you in particular have made, could certainly be construed as smug and complacent and smacking of ‘I‘m alright Jack’.

It’s interesting that you chose not to answer the questions I put to you…..how much you ate or overate prior to the FD; what constitutes the ‘cr*p‘ food that you disdainfully keep referring to; what dietary changes you made when you started the FD etc.
Has the menopause kicked in for you yet? You may find, that losing weight or even maintaining weight is not as easy as it has been for you up to now….you should never assume that just because other women on this thread are managing to successfully maintain after menopause; that it will follow the same for you.

And where are the people who ‘resent’ fasting in the first place?
Why are you reluctant to answer those indicative questions, I wonder?

Making comments about – ‘god-given right to eat whatever they want, as much as they want, whenever they want’ etc – I find statements like that quite insulting and they don’t even apply to me!
I think you should just perhaps rein yourself in a bit; try and couch statements like these, if you must make them – with a lot more sensitivity to the feelings of other people on this forum.
It might pay you to always have in mind; that just because not everyone posts on a thread doesn’t mean they don’t see or read the posts on the ‘recent posts’ list as I did.

If you want to make really hard hitting, in my opinion, insensitive, statements like that, then you should have the courage of your convictions and be prepared to explain them.

With respect HappyNow; facial expressions and intonation, would make no difference whatsoever to those kind of comments.

And no-one minds you being delighted at your results so far, nor anyone else on this thread I’m sure. But you can rejoice surely without making disparaging gross assumptions about other people who haven’t had your level of success.

Booxx

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Bonsoir (it’s 8 p.m. here in Burgundy. I am nearing the end of my FD 15 and have some way to go before I shall be ‘maintaining’; however, I was intrigued to take a look when I saw that PreciousBooBoo had posted here. Having read her post, and read back over a number of previous ones, I have to say I agree with a lot of what she said.

As a relative new 5:2 follower (but with countless years of dieting) I also should like to know what is considered to be a c**p food.

As also noted, you are only 45 – I remember it well – I was a trim 9 stone, healthy, etc.; then 51 came round and the menopause began. From a recent medical journal I read that when we begin peri-menopause we should reduce our calorie intake by 250 calories/day; I wish I had known that!

During the following 10 years I slowly put on weight, at the same time trying very hard to lose it. However, life has a way of slapping us in the face and food is often the only consolation; I imagine we have all eaten for emotional reasons and to comfort ourselves. Anyway, I digress; having moved to France (alone for various reasons) I entered the health system and a whole barrage of tests were carried out – the main one being that I was diagnosed with Hashimoto’s Disease (a form of hypothyroidism) – EUREKA there was the reason my weight had crept up and would not go – my thyroid gland was dead and obviously my metabolism hardly functioned at all. Two years later, and many more tests, I am now at a good level of Levothyroxine, and with the help of the 5:2 and the lovely ladies on the LOACA thread, I am slowly beginning to lose the weight at last.

Being able to lose weight isn’t always as straight forward as we would hope, but I do now feel that this WOE is right for me, and I hope to be able to join the maintainers in the not too distant future.

Femme Anglais x

Hi Boo and Happy … mmmm can I just say “semantics” 😉 Forums are awful at dealing with misunderstandings, which I am sure this is…

We could start a whole new thread about what constitutes “cr*p food”.. or whether there is such a thing.. in fact I might just go of and do that..

Here’s hoping that the dust is settling on Auriga’s move.

So today I completed my am routine .. got thro most of the day without food (as on a 18/6 day. I did weigh myself in Boots… and have to say I now doubt the accuracy of their machine as it said I was 5’7″ … am most definately NOT.. am a full up 5’10” on the other hand it gave my weight as 12 stone 13lb.. which is down a couple of lb from my last weigh in in March.. the mystery being that my measurements are the same.. but I have simply replaced fat with muscle.. eg under my arms… boobs were spreading to my underarms but are now definately more ummm up front 😉 lol… so feeling less inclined to take weight as a reliable indicator .. for me at least. Also bottled the idea of naked… 😉 It was the thought of all that tacky tartan being thrust at me lol.

Sadly didn’t get out at lunch for ramble .. never mind a scramble.. so barring my am fast exercise type routine I haven’t done a hell of alot.. feeling wipped out mentally after extremely lloooooonnng day at work yesterday and work pressure generally.. this is dangerous for me as when I am mentally tired I have reduced will power / resiliance / self discipline generally..

I am going to run tomorrow lunch and think I will try and and keep the 18/6 pattern of eating tomorrow.

Hi bayleafoz

For someone who doesn’t want to get involved in my ’discussion’ with Happy you certainly sound as if you have! And I hardly know which thread to put this on since you are ‘suddenly’ referring to this issue on THE LOACA thread too.

I don’t want this issue to escalate into anything unworthy of this fine forum BUT if you read my posts regarding Happy’s statements; it is the hard hitting wording and ‘self-righteous’ sounding attitude I take exception to on account of the feelings of others.

It’s got nothing to do with being ‘in a different headspace’ to most of the people who frequent this thread; it’s taking into account other people’s feelings and whether they might be hurt reading such scornful comments.

You are absolutely right; we all have to be accountable for the food we choose to eat/drink but just because the folk on this thread have reached a weight they want to maintain at; doesn’t give them the right to make scornful and derogatory comments about the choices of others.

Booxx

Hi Boo

Correction. I posted my question to you on the LOACA thread and that is why I followed up on that thread.

B

Boo,

I have been overweight, in the recent past but also as a child/young adult. Unlike you, I have no health issues to which I can attribute my excess weight. So why did I carry on eating the cr*p (whatever that is for you) when I knew it was harming me? And how is it that 5:2 has retrained my brain/eating? And why does it not do the same for everyone (all else being equal)? I don’t have the answers, but I’m interested.

I’m sorry you find me not only smug, but also scornful and derogatory? I know I’m blunt and don’t sugar coat my words….

If I do sound hard and uncaring then perhaps it is because I can’t afford to be lenient with myself. My mother struggled with her weight all her life. She developed thyroid problems in her 60s which undoubtedly did not help with her weight. When she died of cancer at 72, she was obese, unfit, with high cholesterol and high blood pressure. I have no doubt that her lifestyle (and eating) choices contributed to her ill health and untimely death. There is a history of breast cancer on both sides. I really don’t want history to repeat itself.

Anyway, seeing as this is nothing to do with maintenance and everything to do with how you perceive my comments, if you do want to continue this, can I suggest that we move away from the maintenance thread and allow the other maintainers to enjoy this thread?

No Happy. You are a little ray of sunshine. Sleep well and remember. ..
“The sun will come up, tomorrow. Bet your bottom dollar that tomorrow, the sun will shine. Tomorrow. Tomorrow. I’ll love you tomorrow. It’s only a day away.”
Sleep well. P xxx

😉 zzzzz

The sun is still out here, Happy 🙂 They predicted rain. It didn’t come and I’ve just popped in my early spring lettuce 🙁

Hey! I’m almost a 9 stone weakling! And proud of it. 😉 Actually, not so weak. Had a heater delivered today (125kg) and I used my brain and weakling arms to help the guy get it in. The young fella just didn’t have the experience to use more brain than brawn!!!

I find it really funny that even when I am offered dinner or lunch out these days, I tend to think, “I can make much nicer food”. And it is true. Next we need to change the restaurants and cafes to make healthy tasty food not drowned in dressing, mayo or grease. And serve small appropriate servings. We usually choose the entre when eating out. Much smaller.

Have a happy Friday gang. P 🙂

I love your riders…so pc! 😉

Thanks Bay!

And thanks for confirming that I wasn’t lying about some people apparently resenting fasting, etc.

Aren’t you supposed to be resting your eyes?!

I’m a chicken .. I’m a chicken… I’m a headless chicken wrapped in tacky tartan… sorry work getting to me…

Happy … re your mother .. that is a very hard lesson.. rather like Dr M’s Dad.. they are wake up calls to us all.. I agree as motivation it does give one a reality check re long term health benefits for a really minor sacrifices (that glass of wine / G&T wirth supper EVERY night; Biscuits EVERY 11am coffee break, etc )…

I think there is something about not totally excluding luxuries but keeping them as LUXURIES… so not EVERY day or even EVERY week.. sometimes it is good to indulge it just shouldn’t been routinely EVERY day.

I think when you first start IF routines it can seem rather punishing.. I think that’s the important of “easing” into the IF thing.. and not expecting miricle results immediately.. (although some do).

Once IF becomes routine and your mind and body becomes used to it then as a practice it becomes easier and allows you to develop it further.. I am sure too many people try too hard starting IF and find it too tough. It is very much about developing a new attitude to eating and unpicking all the emotional ties with food. The ultimate goal is not even weight loss or other health benefits but an established ability to listen to your body and only eat when you need to and understand what your body needs nutritionally.

My understanding is that nutritionally our bodies have learnt to access certain nutrients from “cr*p” food sources but once the body learns about how to access nutrients from “good” food sources then the drive to eat the “wrong” foods decreases making the whole IF thing even easier. But the process of this adjustment can take time.. and will vary with different people…

RE PC .. mmm agree excellent riders… have you thought about a new career as a corporate lawyer Happy??

PVE and Happy.. what I don’t understand is that essentially my size is the same… measurements are pretty much the same.. shape IS different .. so for instance my chest is the same measurement but have gone down a cup size if that makes sense.. waist is the same as are hips … bum is more ummm defined but measures the same.. so guessing this is all down to muscle mass improvements…

I always thought muscle weighed more for the same volumn than fat.. so my question is HOW can I be the essentially the same weight when I have more muscle and and less fat?

I am questioning the accuracy of the Boots scales on this logic tells me I should really be HEAVIER than my weigh in in March…

I think your M-I-L is on to something HappyNow. I have found I am now starting to order entree size meals when we are eating out rather than the main size and it’s more than enough for me. Don’t know about you but I was brought up not to waste food and eat everything on my plate and I still find it hard to buck that conditioning so ordering a smaller size plate to start with is much easier. Eating out is a challenge but as I am maintaining my weight loss I am just assuming what I am doing is working OK! Have a good day everyone! I am off to a weekend celebration in honour of us featuring plenty of food and wine so wish me luck!

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OK Boo,

At worst I made some thoughtless comments (or hopefully thought provoking to some people) which you say ‘some’ people might find offensive. You do not know me, I do not know you, you have read my comments and interpreted them in a way that was not intended. You however have chosen to then launch a very personal attack on me, insinuating that you find me smug, derogatory, scornful, sanctimonious, judgemental, condescending and self-righteous, and have commented that I don’t appear to be the kind of person who cares about the feelings of others. Wow.

And did I write that you had said I was a despicable human being? No, I think not. So who is it that is reading things that are not written and jumping to conclusions?!

Let’s be honest, in what way do you think either of us come out of this smelling of roses exactly?! Me, for perhaps being thoughtless in my unbridled joy at finally no longer being the fat child who was bullied in school? Or you, for attacking me on a personal level for expressing opinions that you think are inappropriate?

Anyway, emough said. Please take this as formal notification that I have finished communicating with you now. I wish you well. Goodbye.

I object to your use of the word ‘attack’ barbarita – if people don’t want to be held accountable for making statements that are totally out of order then it’s simple; don’t make them in the first place….

It’s funny; I only ever see your name on this forum if you are disagreeing with something I have said….

Ordained by a higher power maybe….?

Oh Boo,

Where exactly are you going with this? What ‘actions’ do I have to justify to you now? I made some comments. You didn’t like them. I don’t have to support my comments with citations and references, I’m not writing a scientific paper here. If you choose to read back through the forum, you will come across comments from people who refer to resenting fasting, and using it not to make a permanent change but for weight loss, and who don’t want to give up the very way of eating that has lead to their excess weight. I’m afraid I didn’t make a note of which individuals, on what threads, etc. as I didn’t know that I would be held to account!

And as to being childish, I often find that humour helps diffuse a situation, and I always tend to see the ridiculous side of things…. And my ‘childish’ comment was a response to barbarita, and not to you. I suspected that it would only add fuel to the fire, but it made me smile when I thought of it, so couldn’t resist I’m afraid!

I have no intention of saying anything in response to your post, as I really really really am not going to keep defending myself against your ever more aggressive attacks on my character.

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PVE. You know what? The sun did come out today after all? It poured down earlier, but cleared up. I wasn’t in the mood but, not to be outdone by Iwi, I forced myself out for a run! The view is over a patchwork of fields, giving way to the low fells, with the mountains of the Lake District behind. And then back home in the garden, with a glass of wine, listening to the sound of the beck at the bottom of the garden, and watching the swallows and martins overhead. It gladdens my heart.

And tonight is treat night! Not only wine, first since last weekend, but egg and chips (courtesy of OH, so a night off cooking also!).

Happy maintaining all.

Hi Hermaj,

I’ve never heard of that, but will definitely give it a go! I do like sharp favours (pickles etc, although not eels!!). Is that smoked or unsmoked by the way?

And I’m a builders tea fan all the way. So no hardship there.

Thanks Auriga for your comments on maintaining weight loss, I’m glad to see that I’m not the only one who’s doing 4:3 in order to maintain my weight loss (15kgs.) I would need to lose another 1-1.5 kgs. to get down to a healthy BMI of 25- at the moment it’s about 25.6 but it seems that no matter how hard I try I can’t seem to budge that last bit of weight and at times it has become frustrating. Have also read the BMI isn’t necessarily an accurate calculation of healthy weight and I’m wondering if I’m becoming obsessed with reaching that magic number on the scale as my weight seems to fluctuate within a 1 kg. range during any given week and I just have to accept that that’s normal for me. I had exactly the same thing happen about 7 years ago when I had a gastric banding…lost 15kgs. fairly quickly but no matter how well I ate or how much I exercised I couldn’t lose any more weight until I tried 5:2 (except for me it’s been pretty much 4:3 all the way!) I don’t actually have a copy of the book so I’m not sure if Michael Mosely ever addressed this issue. Yes, it does have to become a lifestyle in the long term but I’m happy with that as I don’t want to regain any weight either, I’m fitter and happier now that I’ve been in the last 13 years or so. It’s still possible to enjoy the occasional treat without going overboard.

Morning…

Sassafras .. I’ve given up on the BMI thing and really just use the waist / height ratio as an indicator.. I was kind of interested to see what my weight / BMI came in at after almost 5 months of maintenance and upping the anti on the fitness side.. hence my prancing around Inverness / Boots clad in tacky tartan.. or not.. 😉

Hermaj .. intersting re the vinegar.. will give that a go next time I our glorious leader deigns to cross my desk with a bacon butty 🙂

PVE .. re vinegar and gut bacteria.. is that specifically cider vinegar as have heard cider vinegar is good for the guts.. but wasn’t aware that malt / any other vinegar also had a beneficial side to gut bacteria..???

Happy .. please don’t not post.. 🙂

Auri .. hope you slept well in new house..

And here is are the destructions for my Rye Sourdough including how to get a starter going..

Starter for Sourdough

You need to use a stoneground / unbleached flour.. I use rye as it’s what I like.. you have to make it up relatively thin like a batter to start with – two tablespoons flour in a jug .

Don’t put it in a warm place – room temp is better. In summer I would find a cooler place.

Never add sugar, all it needs is the flour. The flour, if unbleached and stoneground, will have some inherent bacteria and yeasts that will start the process off.

When you see the first bubbles, there are yeasts in there – then add some more flour to thicken a little and leave for another couple of days.

It will form a skin on top – this is the bit you throw away if you want to – the underneath should be bubbly and stretchy.

Keep doing this for 3 – 5 days.. It takes 3-5 days to make a good starter – then you can store it in the fridge

I use a Pyrex casserole dish as a container as I can see through the glass and it has a lid.. The lid keeps it moist and the casserole dish also has a wide top which makes it easier to spoon flour in / mix etc.

NB sometimes water can be over treated (too much chlorine etc) which the yeast and lacto bacteria will NOT like. So it’s good to leave a jug of water to stand in daylight for a few hours as this will get rid of the chlorine. This also allows the water to come up to room temperature. Alternatively, to start off the process off, use bottled spring water.

this site has some good recipes and articles about sourdough http://www.sourdough.co.uk/category/sourdough/

( this is a really interesting talk on wheat and how it’s been engineered http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbBURnqYVzw)
My weekly routine for my Sourdough Rye Loaf is:

Take the starter out of the fridge (which is about a table spoon full)

Add about 200g of rye flour and water to about half way up the casserole dish to make a stiff porridge consistency.

Leave on work top to sponge. In summer this takes about 6 – 8 hours .. Whilst in winter it takes about 24 hours (I have a cool kitchen). You are looking for it to double its volume and you’ll see bubbles through the glass.

When ready remove all the starter from Pyrex casserole dish to large mixing bowl.
To the scrapings remaining in the Pyrex casserole dish (or whatever container you are keeping your starter in) add a table spoon (about 50g) of your starter flour and some more water to make a stiff porridge consistency and replace in fridge.

You can leave the starter for at least a week. If you leave it much longer than a week, scrape out most of the starter and simply add another 50g ish of flour and mix in water to make the porridge again.

To the sponged starter in the mixing bowl add whatever the bread recipe calls for.

My standard sourdough rye mix is:
caraway seeds
sunflower seeds
pumpkin seeds
teaspoon of molasses
a good pinch of sea salt

If you use molasses / malt extract / honey etc dilute this in the water below as it’s easier to mix into the dough.

Add in a little (about 25 – 50ml) water (cold / room temperature) mix in and then add in white flour (about the same volume of flour you used to sponge). I use bog standard co-op white bread flour for this bit as you should have a healthy colony of yeasts and bacteria in the sponge mix.

NB different flours will absorb different amounts of water so it’s best add less and then add more if you need to.

Bring all the ingredients and sponge mix together and add sunflower oil (a little at a time) and knead until you have a glossy ball of dough. It should feel “alive” and elastic.

Shape the dough and place on baking tray to prove. It will be ready to bake when it has doubled its volume again. You can do this bit overnight in the fridge. I prefer the overnight in the fridge.. it makes a closer textured bread and gives the yeasts a real chance to develop the taste better in my opinion. At this stage really what happens is that the dough “spreads”. The “rise” happens in the oven as the gases emitted from the growing yeast expand and rise. If you use a banneton / basket to prove in this contains the dough and forces it to expand vertically, but it will still spread a little when you turn out onto the baking tray.

NB I only do one rise and don’t knock back.

I bake mine at about 170°C for approx. 35 minutes in a fan oven. To check whether it’s ready take it out and turn upside down and tap the underside. It should sound hollow if it’s ready. If it isn’t stick it back in the oven for another 5 minutes.

PS my starter is 2 and half years old now and called Charlie