This topic contains 11,642 replies, has 174 voices, and was last updated by Pollypenny 3 weeks, 3 days ago.
Welcome back Auriga. We’ve missed you and tried to keep the thread warm in your absence.
Is this the end of an official holiday period in the UK? Everybody seems to be returning to reality.
Keep up the good work Mainenance Mates (I got carried away making a delicious paella last night so will have to just eat lettuce when I have lunch with a girlfriend today. C’est la vie. )
PVE
Hi PVE.
No it’s not the end of an official holiday period here, in fact it’s more the start! Schools are now breaking up for the summer.
Holiday prices tend to rocket when the kids are out, so people without kids are wise to holiday at lower price times. Also holding outside of school holidays means your destination is not awash with children (no offence to all the parents out there! I’m side yours are perfectly behaved little angels….) !
This may be what you’re seeing.
Enjoy your lettuce! Though I’m sure you could allow yourself a little more without undoing your hard work?!
Well done with the holiday maintenance Auriga. Great to be able to relax and barely change. 1.5 is nothing. You’ll lose it in no time.
I was genuine re the holidays. Our winter school holidays end this week. The traffic has been so light I’ll miss it when the little blighters go back and apparently have to be driven to school.
I’ll have to ask your advice for the low times for our next European trip…hope it’s soon 😉
Making a chicken and prawn Thai dish tonight (non fast day, but had lunch out)
Happy fasting and packing.
Purple
Hi Happy
Didn’t see this earlier. ..just in bed catching up with all the posts I glanced at earlier.
Used to have to take holidays during school breaks. Always busy. Always more expensive. It is certainly a big bonus being retired.
I ended up eating salmon, avocado, sour cream 🙁 and sour dough bread. With winter, the cafes aren’t offering salads. No wine though…I would have but I went to the wrong café! !!!! Hence a lighter dinner.
Interesting reading comments re the definite need to have the significant difference between fast and non fast days in calories to stop the metabolism slowing and adjusting to less in total. I’m paraphrasing here. I’m sure Simcioeluv could find a reference.
Enjoy your Wednesday Maintenance Mates
Purple
Mmmm, salivating now at the thought of your lunch PVE!
I think I will fast tomorrow. I appear to be going down with some lurgy, so fingers crossed that during a fast my body can eat the germs! Should have today really, but needed something in my stomach because sore throat/bug is making me feel queasy.
Must admit I’m thoroughly confused about the whole metabolism thing! Surely if I’m just eating around my TDEE then I’m going to maintain my weight? Not sure that throwing in the odd fast alters metabolism? It may keep you fat burning though rather than going back to carbs as primary fuel source on fast days? Arrrggghhh.
PVE:
“Interesting reading comments re the definite need to have the significant difference between fast and non fast days in calories to stop the metabolism slowing and adjusting to less in total.”
In this study, “Alternate-day fasting in nonobese subjects: effects on body weight, body composition, and energy metabolism (2005)”, resting metabolic rate decreased about one-half of one percent after 22 days of ADF: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/81/1/69.long
The comment – “Temperature (data not shown) and absolute and relative resting metabolic rate (adjusted for fat-free mass and fat mass) were not significantly different from baseline (Table 2⇓).”
That does not, however, mean your TDEE won’t decrease with weight loss. That is because TDEE includes physical activity, and it takes fewer calories to move around less weight. So your TDEE would decrease unless you increased it via exercise or other additional physical activity.
Happy…so sorry to hear you are coming down with a bug. Hope fasting shakes it.
Thanks Simmo. I totally concur on the reduced TDEE as you lose weight. I have consistently revised mine. I also found it interesting how my leg muscles were initially very powerful, allowing me to leap tall buildings etc, but despite massively increasing the distances and hills I traverse, the muscles have adjusted to the lower load (26kg) I cannot do two steps at a time as effortlessly as I did last year when I first lost the bulk of my fat.
What I was questioning was not the health benefits of life long fasting …. my husband’s blood sugar results prove that ….but I have read somewhere that eating a lower TDEE every day, instead of fasting at least 6:1, with the same total weekly calorie intake, the body adjusts and begins to store fat again. I am questioning the use of 5:2 as a weight loss mechanism when I think it should be a life long habit to allow the body to heal itself. Just eating your new TDEE once you are at goal weight won’t give the health benefits and might explain why some people gradually regain the weight as their body adjusts to the new normal . Have just woken up and doing this on the phone. Hope it makes sense. Will reread to see if you have answered my question. 🙂
Like you, Auriga, we are on this for the long term
health benefits.
Cheers all, Purple
Hi PVE.
I think you may be asking an unanswerable question, or at least one with several possible answers?
You appear to be asking for the answer to life, the universe and everything? At least in terms of optimal eating for health and longevity in the maintenance phase?!
It is worth remembering that the original Horizon programme was Eat, Fast and Live Longer not Eat, Fast and Lose Weight. So yes, weight loss added bonus, but as you note live longer (and healthier) is only realised by some element of lifelong fasting.
I too am pondering how best to achieve this though. I know 16:8 is working for me for maintenance, but is getting a 16 hour fast (and then eating near TDEE) several days a week as ‘healthy’ as a longer fast and/or a calorie restricted day perhaps once a week.
However for me to do a calorie restricted 6:1, but not lose weight, I would have to overeat on other days to make up the calorie deficit. Since overeating was what lead to my weight gain, is it wise to adopt a style of eating that requires me to overeat at all? Particularly now portion control and overeating are no longer issues for me (but might be again if I now forcefeed myself just so I can do a 6:1).
Since processed food, and carbs particularly, are villains here, maybe 16:8 and low processed carbs will be at least as effective as 6:1 with high processed carbs?
Given the huge number of possible combinations, and the fact that one size does not fit all, I’m guessing there may not be an answer to this anytime soon….
You are right though, if you use this just to lose weight but then stop fasting and revert to old eating habits and/or do not ensure you eat at or below TDEE, then you are just as likely to yo-yo with this as with any other diet.
Yes Happy
It is keeping my boy healthy and off insulin (and potentially save him from all the nasties of diabetes) that is our main driver. The new clothes and trimmer bodies were a bonus!
I find still fasting twice a week, strictly, but not worrying much on the 5 seems to maintain my goal weight. Mind you, we have a heightened awareness of portions and food options. Another spin off from this WOL.
Keep up the ideas. We all learn so much from each other.
Purple
Good work on getting back into fasting Auriga. You’d not really gained anything anyway, and now its nearly gone. Result!
I guess what I’m unsure of still is what exactly constitutes a ‘fast’ for the purposes of health. The diabetes study (2 meals vs more continuous eating, at TDEE) appears to support a 16:8ish way of eating at least for diabetes/ insulin control.
So do I need intermittent calorie restriction as well as regular longer fast windows to maximize health benefits?
I appreciate what you’re saying about upping good carbs on non-fast days, but it then all starts to become a bit forced and unnatural, when 16:8 is easy for me.
Other ‘experts’ appear to suggest that 2 days fasting per week in the long term is too much, and perhaps 2-3 days per month (together) is better, or even that daily 16:8 is better than too regular fasting. 2-3 days per month would certainly fit with the immune system and cancer studies?
Thinking about it from an evolutionary perspective, intermittent fasting would not have been a regular Monday and Thursday each week. At certain times there would be longer lean (calorie restricted periods), some periods with little or no food, and variable lengths of plenty/ excess. So what is optimal now?
Given that I don’t currently have any health issues, I guess I’ll stick with what’s working and what seems quite natural for me, and wait for more ‘evidence’ to emerge!
Happy, if slightly confused, Now!
Yes Auriga and Happy, we are all heading into this maintenance experiment together.
We need to keep trying ways that work for us, fine tuning on the way, looking for the latest research, and sharing what we do here.
Btw it is post dinner here now…homemade Thai pumpkin soup plus some blueberries, strawberries, yoghurt and almonds. Happy girl now. Another fast day bites the dust!!!
Fitbit says I’m 1900 cal in deficit.
Purple
Hi Everybody from an extremely warm (98 degrees) Greece. HappyNow, like you, 16/8 is my natural way of eating, so I would be very happy if 16/8 does give the same health benefits as intermittent fasting. I’m finding though, having maintained at 58kgs for the past five weeks, that 16/8 plus the odd fast day of 500 cals, if the scales go up a pound, seems to be working for me. I’d like to get down to 56kgs but am not knocking myself out to achieve this. Now that’s its summer here, there is an awful lot of socialising going on and I’m just happy that I can eat, drink and be merry whilst still maintaining my current weight. It would be interesting to know though whether indeed 16/8 gives the same health benefits as 5:2. Perhaps Dr MM, will update us if any new findings are published in this field:-)
Dear Auriga, interesting observation between your friends and you. Happynow and I have both said that our natural rhythm is 16/8 and we both gained weight when persuaded to eat breakfast. I note u said your friends “grazed” I don’t, I eat lunch and dinner only, not sure if Happynow’s 16/8 pattern is the same? But, as we all keep saying, we r all different and what works for one won’t necessarily work for all.
Dear Auriga “grazing” is a modern euphorism for “eating between meals”. When one thinks that just an apple and a handful of walnuts can cost around 150 calories, and that’s healthy grazing, it’s so clear to see how “snacking” can so easily pile on the pounds. I believe that continually eating between meals is the main road to obesity. The good thing about fasting is that it trains us not to want to keep continually eating 🙂
Hi Elaine.
If I feel the need for a snack now it’s always nuts or cheese! Calorific, but filling…. a little goes a long way.
My 16:8 is sometimes just 2 meals, but often yoghurt at 11ish, then veg crudites/ salad and cottage cheese/hummous at 1 or 2 and then evening meal.
Snacking would be fine if it was ever counted towards TDEE of course, but most of us aren’t that disciplined. And we’d probably be horrified by the paltry amount of calories we’d left ourselves for the evening meal!
5:2 has certainly put me back in control, to the extent that sometimes when I do fancy a snack I can’t find one because it’s all baked goods and confectionary on the high street! I could starve!!
HappyNow we could b twins me and you what with the 16/8 perfetence and snacking on nuts and cheese we have the same eating profile/preferences! I buy almonds, walnuts, pistachios, hazel nuts, chashews, sunflower seeds and plain peanuts mix them all together and if I really need a little snack I know a quarter of a cup is around 160 calories – they are a good choice for the beach – sorry, it’s a hard knock life being old and retired 😉
Hi Auriga Elaine and Happy
I’ve enjoyed waking up to read your musings.
Are you all doing 16:8 every day? Or on non fast days?
I am a great believer in breakfast as the most delicious meal of the day. Would rather skip lunch. I love trying out all sorts of exciting new breakfasts…usually cooked. I have never eaten the ssme thing every morning.
BUT, amazingly, since I stated fasting early last year I can easily skip it. I am sad about all those gorgeous dishes I imagine, but don’t eat 😉
(Damn can’t scroll this down, do no proofreading below 🙁 Sorry)
When on holidays we don’t fast but have only 2 meals. Seems to stop us gaining weight.
At home on non fast days I have a latish nice cooked breakfast, a light lunch and whatever for dinner. We have even reintroduced the occassional pate and cheese with a limited number of biscuits before dinner. We are still maintaining, even losing.
It suits us to fast and eat normally on other days. I can understand that early man would not have had regular periods of feast and famine but the Mediterranean diet was found to be healthy because of Greek Authodox weekly fasting (Dr Jason Fung).
Now what will I cook for brekkie on this icey morning? Purple 😉
Auriga, after saying yesterday that my leg muscles have less strength, I spent too long chatting on these threads and was late. I sprinted to the station, saw the train drawing in, so ran two at a time down and then two at a time up the stairs. Jumped on just as the doors were closing! Wonderwoman indeed! Thanks Dr M 🙂 Purple
Hi PVE, like my twin, I was a reluctant breakfast eater when I started 5:2. I started 16:8 on fast days because the benefits appear greater with calorie restriction and longer fasting windows. I quickly ditched the processed carbs as I realised they were doing their utmost to sabotage my efforts, and then 16:8 most days naturally followed. I’m not massively strict, so it likely varies a bit, but never less than 14:10.
Re: enjoying your breakfasts. I do, but mine is now brunch! So you could eat all those imagined delights, just a little later in the day!
Well I did a half-hearted fast y/day. 18 hours no food, but then queasy stomach again from this cold so are some garlicky lemony courgette. Meant to just eat something light for tea, but after seeing what was in the polytunnel/ garden in need of eating, it seemed wasteful not to! All good (eggs, salad), some carbs (fresh dug new potatoes)…. and home made onion bhajis (all that oil…!).
Anyway, 59.6 this morning, so holding steady. And cold not really progressing. So that’s good. It had been threatening to go to my chest (as a slight asthmatic, I think I have a bit of a weakness there), but so far so good. Maybe my immune system is stronger now…. or maybe the bugs just can’t find a chest to settle on….! Think I’ll repeat y/day (with the addition of wine this evening!) just in case it helped.
PVE. You seem to make a habit of running to and from trains?! Pleased to hear your legs didn’t let you down.
Hi Happy
Sorry the cold hasn’t gone yet. I have fared very well this winter with only very mild sniffles. Whew!
I beat you this morning. ..59.3:) My husband is 69.3. I don’t get why we stay 10kg apart all the time!!!
I have a $2.50 a day any transport ticket so I catch a lot of trains…I live in the big smoke!
Have just dropping off one of my darling grandkids. Have had her most of the day so I had lots of healthy fruit that she ate some of …she’s only 17 mths. Lovely time of life for us both. Nice to be fit enough to keep up with her..
Cheers Purple
Hi Elaine, I know you’re my twin, it was you I was referring to!
Many Happy Returns of the day! Are you doing anything special? (although every day where you are is probably pretty special….).
We don’t have a farm, just an old farmhouse and maybe an acre of land. At the moment we’ve got a big veg plot, orchard, big greenhouse, and the polytunnel (where everything grows like triffids). Oh, and not forgetting the ladies (hens), free ranging on perhaps a third of the acre at mo, although they’ll have to sacrifice some of that as Hubby wants pigs and bees at some point. It keeps us busy, esp as we both work full time!
And talking of work… see you later!
Hi fellow Maintainers,
Just back from 5 days at coast with 3 young grandchildren. Walked along beaches and rocky headlands every day. One day a long walk over many golden beaches and red rocky cliffs for 4 hours. Blue sky, blue seas, mostly sunshine even though Winter. I ate homemade Mexican meal, spaghetti with meat sauce, Syrian chicken and vegetables. Plus yummy fish and chips with no transfats. What a week! No alcohol. Nibbles of chocolate and corn chips. Guess what! I weigh exactly the same tonight, Friday, as I did on Monday morning. Thanks to 5:2 I believe my metabolism has changed for good. Lovely to read all the posts. 🙂
Hi gang
Happy birthday Elaine.
Sure Happy. I love cooking and would love to share.
Glad you enjoyed your time with the grandkids Bayleaf but surely you needed a drink when they were in bed? Very consciencous 😉
I agree with you, 5:2 changed our metabolisms and Auriga, we ARE living proof it works and is completely sustainable. Stupid media!
Better get into bed. The old/young fella is getting tecthy.
Have a good weekend all. Purple 🙂
ps Where’s Dave?
Hi Auriga
Totally agree about new people joining. I felt welcome from the beginning. This is the only thread I now feel comfortable about being ecstatic at my metabolism, waist shrinking etc. it feels too cruel to celebrate too much on threads where others are struggling.
So please join in if you are a maintainer. And the topics are many. Totally agree about media. They only want the latest scandal, failure etc etc. 🙂 :). That’s my rant over.
Hi Purple
Totally agree. When there’s only me at the coast with kids, I don’t feel as if I should imbibe in case there is an emergency in the middle of the night. 🙂
First thing last night after unpacking and doing the washing. Fell upon a red wine, blue cheese and crackers. Was fabulous! Even more surprising, I have shrunk more around the trunk, from rib cage to hips. My newish size 12 trousers are rolled over at the waist. Have to try on size 10. Woohoo!
G’day Mainenance Mates!
Don’t like to brag, but….. I hit the 58kgs (58.9 this morning) for the first time since, I guess, the early 80s! Whooooohoooo!!!!
Now a confession. I was lying on the bed dozing at 6pm when hubby arrived home. I had a roaring headache and really tired from grandparenting 🙁
My knight brought up chips (crisps) and white wine. About half way through the chips I read the calorie count and realised we had each consumed about 350 cal …plus wine! A whole fast day’s allocation. We went “C’est la vie” and finished off the bottle with biscuits, tuna pate and blue cheese (Tassy of course).
In the old days on a Friday night we would have then eaten dinner. We didn’t! Just cleaned up the kitchen and made black coffee.
Still lost weight. He took no Metformin yesterday and is thrilled.
Thanks again Dr M and Mimi! Purple
Hi Bayleaf
I was writing mine when your’s was loading. I think we must be the other set of twins on this thread. Mmmm wine and blue cheese. Life can’t get better!
Sorry Auriga. I guess you are the mother of us all (not in age) but as a wonderful role model.
Any more maitainers out there? Come and join this merry band:) Purple
Purple and Auriga
I see you both have cracked the 60 kg barrier. Well done. We can all eat well, because we fast and because we now know how to balance energy expended with food intake over time. 🙂
I don’t any of this for granted and I’m very, very grateful that Dr M put out the book and the video. 🙂
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