Hi Polly penny .. sorry bout ur gain.. just makes u question yourself. One thing I do no is bran flakes has tons of sugar in them. I stopped them. Same as frosti’s or crunchy nut. Seriously 😉😊 molly

Thanks Nama for those words of encouragement. Looking forward to Monday taking measurements and fasting.Need a positive place to go. Will check out weemams post. 😊

Will need to try the Tesco own brand!!lowest sugar as I have always been plagued with constipation regardless of my diet.

Apples and satsumas I love. However, I have difficulty in fitting them into a fast day. Having chick pea chilli fir dinner tonight, recipe from ‘the bible’.

Good weigh day today, lost the two pounds I’d gained last week and another pound and a half.

Just half a pound from my psychological 9st boost.,However, changed a pair of new size 14 trousers for size 12 and just had a massive try on session resulting in a full charity bag.

Two satsumas today. Now I’m going to iron the huge pile to both keep me occupied and warm. It’s freezing here!

FANTASTIC POLLY!!!! Well done u. Great achievement. I started on Mon. One fast day under my belt. Missing my brown wholemeal bread and eating little n often. I’m still getting my head round it as the new 5.2 book is giving different instructions….. from u lovely people. I’m getting there. 💖

Um – so with the TDEE tool we estimate our current caloric intake need? That would be the one that maintains our current weight. So by cutting calories to 600 per day for two days we then are cutting out 2 days worth TDEE – 1200 calories?

So in my case: 2200 calories x 2 = 4400 calories – 1200 leaves me with a weekly loss of 3200 calories before any added exercise?

So my real question at my goal weight my TDEE will be less?

So this means I have to increase my exercise or continue a modified 5:2 to maintain the weight at that point?

Thanks in advance.

David

Hi david,

As you lose weight you don’t need to eat as much to maintain that weight. Exercise helps weight loss but the majority of the loss comes from the diet itself. Exercise makes you feel good so I don’t discount it but probably 90% of the loss is diet. Carbs have 9.3 calories per gram, fat has 3.8cal/g and alcohol has 7cal/g. You burn a combination of glucose, glycogen and fat all the time. The ratios change depending on the activity you are doing. About 0.5-1kg loss per week is about average on 5:2. I lost 0.7 kg over the course of a year.

You know, I just posted but can’t find my post yet — so maybe there is a delay. I just realized I made a silly mistake. I said that I was eating 1200 on non-fasting days (which is true) but it’s not true (obviously) that that’s 10% lower than 1125, is it!! lol. In fact…I have no idea what I did, but that’s clearly not write! I think what happened, was I was afraid to go much lower than 1200, because I don’t want to get into an every day restriction cycle — which will do more harm to my metabolism. Sorry for that weird error, there.

Still, comments welcome.

Thanks.

Sorry — but does what I said even make sense? If you’re doing ADF, is it kind of the same thing if you’re fasting 4:3 or fasting 3:4? I’m losing my mind! lol. help!

Hi Hypo,

Wow youre all over the place. Take a deep breath. On the assumption that you are correct and that eating 1000-1100 calories means you are putting on weight, then plainly 1000-1100 calories is too much. Disregard the calculated TDEE. Im also assuming that the anorexia you mentioned no longer applies to you now? It was an eating disorder that you had in the past? Otherwise it doesn’t make any sense that you have anorexia and are overweight? You also say that you fasted for a month. Was this a water only fast? And you did not lose any weight? I find this very difficult to believe. Im a firm believer in the laws of physics (occupational hazard). Your body needs energy to run. it gets this from external food sources or stored fats and protein (if your using large amounts of protein then you have entered starvation mode, not good).

First let me say that I think your should consult with your doctor and a qualified dietician as to the appropriateness of doing 5:2 as everyone on this forum will only be guessing at your circumstances. No one can know your full medical history and any medications you are on. Why not just try a very simple trial to begin with. Do 5:2. Eat 1000-1100 calories each day for 5 days and then a quarter of that 250-275 for your two fast days. Do this for say two weeks and monitor your weight. Are you losing or gaining weight? Modify accordingly with the supervision of your doctor/dietician.

If youre willing to say, can I ask how tall you are and what your current weight is? What would your doctor ideally like you to weigh while on your medication?

Hi Hypo,

Given that your circumstances fall way outside what I would consider a desire for “normal weight loss”, Im not sure that there are many forum members on here that are going to be able to give you sound advice. You say that you are not “overweight” but are “uncomfortable”. Hard to gauge what you mean by uncomfortable? Physically or mentally uncomfortable? Im thinking it would be best to follow the advice of the specialists that have been treating you to date as they know your history. Good luck with it.

Hi Hypogurl and welcome to the 5:2 forum,

I too have a complicated and unusual medical history with multiple conditions, though very different to yours. My history has left me very short on energy production and while I’m mobile and can walk normally I can’t walk a long way or at a fast speed, and have challenges with stairs going up and slopes etc. My lack of normal energy production means all of my body gets reduced energy including my brain, so I get brain fog, slowed thinking, challenges with language and tracking thoughts to keep on track. It would also be impossible for me to explain my complicated medical history and it’s implications on here. I have had medical conditions all multisystemic , all less than common, all not well understood by the medical community, research still going on, and so on. So…I am not going to try to understand further than the brief outline you’ve given of your medical situation. I cannot possibly understand all you and your medical team understand, and I have no experience of the thyroid situation.

But, I am going to try to answer your queries that I think you’re asking. I think what you’re asking is: “are my thoughts about intermittant fasting normal, and Is how I’m looking at applying it normal.” Is that right?

Sometimes, because of life situations, we can lose sight of what is “normal/average” and not know how to work out what is “normal/average”. Some of my life challenges have put me in that situation too at times. When that is our situation, especially when things affecting our viewpoint of normal and our relationship to it and reference points of normal, have been distorted in childhood, we keep looking for that normal reference point through our adult years. We keep trying to get that reference point of ‘normal’ and get it perfectly. Instead, ‘normal’ is a range. So.. I’m going to attempt to answer your questions by looking at whether I think they fall into the range of average.

Also, I understand, I think, about what you mean about being not overweight but uncomfortable. ‘Normal weight’ is a range across a number of lbs or kgs or BMI for someone’s height, sex. This range has an upper limit and a lower limit. So I think you’re saying you are now in the upper end of the normal range for your height and sex, and you want to be towards the lower half of your range. All this, so far, is mostly to say, “I get it”. I’m not the same, but I think I’ve been through enough to get what you’re saying OK. Please say if I’m not.

Your questions:

1. Alternate day fasting – which would be 4:3 on week 1 and 3:4 on week 2, then back to week 1 (4:3) then repeat week 2 (3:4) etc because you need an even no of days for Alternate Day Fasting. In a 2 week period there should be 7 FDs (fast days) and 7 NFDs (non fast days).

Week 1 – 4:3

Monday. FD
Tuesday NFD
Wednesday FD
Thursday NFD
Friday FD
Saturday NFD
Sunday FD

Week 2 – 3:4

Monday NFD
Tuesday FD
Wednesday NFD
Thursday FD
Friday NFD
Saturday FD
Sunday NFD

4:3 would not mean fasting for 4 days straight then nonfasting for 3 days straight, and. 3:4 would not mean fasting for 3 days straight then nonfasting for 4 days straight. It would also mean over a fortnight you would be doing 8 FDS and 6 NFDs, which reduces your calories over the fortnight even more and so more extreme than Alternate Day Fasting. There are a few people, very few, who will do multi day fasts, but they don’t do them repeatedly every week, and they should only be done under medical supervision.

As I understand it Alternate day Fasting has been researched by Dr Varady and has had good results in research in helping the body function better. It does give that rhythm of alternating food days with nonfood days that seems tocause the body to kick into more repair mode. However, it is too strict a regime for most people. It isn’t an average approach to Intermittant Fasting. That is why 5:2 came into being. It still prompts the body to go into repair mode and the average person can do it.

Question 2: Working out TDEE, and calories for TDEE.

TDEE is worked out on your present weight, not goal weight. Doing it with goal weight drops your calories unneccesarily for both NFDs and FDs. FDs are intended to be <500cals or 1/4 TDEE. Yes, a very few people do it with goal weight, but they do it to intentionally drop their calories as a way way to speed up their weight loss for whatever reasons, but it’s not what was intended, and not what most people do. My TDEE is 1470cals right now for my present weight, and I redo my TDEE periodically as my weight has changed. I am at present in the upper range of normal and want to be in the lower half of the range also, but I still always do my TDEE on my present weight not goal weight even though I’m not far off now.

10% variation, so you’re rounding calories down from 1350 to 1200 – nobody does this. I’ve been on the forum and read around various threads over nearly 2years and I’ve never seen anyone do this. That 10% deviation would be a statistical deviation and that would include not just 10% below but also 10% above 1350, so by your reasoning it might also be logical to choose 1500cals the upper limit of the standard deviation. If you’re trying to counteract the statistical variation then the middle figure, eg 1350 cals, is the most accurate one, not the upper or lower limit of the deviation. By choosing the lowest deviation you are again dropping the calories unneccesarily.

Because 1350 is your TDEE of your goal weight, it would be normal/average to

1. do TDEE on your present weight, then
2. Use the TDEE figure as is.

This is very long, but I hope it’s useful to you in seeing what is average, and where in your proposed approach you seem to be dropping calories down unneccesarily. I wish you well.

Cheers,
Merry

You’re welcome, and thank you for your kind thoughts re my health.🙂

One other thing I forgot because I was getting tired – 10% deviation down of 1350 is 1215, so your ’rounding down’ was a little over 11%, so another creep down of, that time of 15calories/day.

In your last post you say – felt you hadneeded to take the lowest numbers because of worry/anticipating metabolic issues. To me, not knowing how your system functions, but looking at the normal/average thought process, I would be choosing the opposite i.e. choosing a higher end of the ranges of various numbers on everything, because it’s the constant daily lowering of them that seems to be the cause of metabolic issues.

In the researched variations of Intermittant fasting that have shown cell repair it is not what is done daily but the switching back and forth from the fasting/low cal days to the TDEE days that initiates the cell repair on the fasting/low cal days. Lowering the cals on every day defeats the purpose.

Hoping your health improves Hypogurl. xx

My philosophy is myhealth is quite challenging, yes, but it is up to me whether I choose to be happy or unhappy in that situation. My happiness is a daily choice, and I concentrate on what I have to be grateful for each day.

Take care, and nice to meet you 🙂
Merry

@hypogurl

I am a little late, but I hope you don’t mind that I say my opinion.

4FD:3NFD at your TDEE could do very much damage, in my opinion. First of all, I think there is a real and big risk of lowering your already-low-TDEE, increase cortisol / stress, nutritional (micro and macro) deficiency, risk of developing a binge eating disorder, and so on.

What I would test in your situation:
1. I would keep eating at sedentary TDEE (maybe max 10% deficit), but eat in a smaller eating window. Like 2 meals a day in 6 or better 4 hours window. This is to lower insulin.
2. Also to lower insulin, the time of this 2 meals is important. You lose much more with breakfast+lunch, than with lunch+dinner, at the same caloric intake. 3 studies here, first post: https://thefastdiet.co.uk/forums/topic/daily-20-23-hours-fasting-window/
3. If eating at your TDEE and following the first 2 steps does not give you results, then you can try first 6NFD:1FD and if the stress from fasting is manageable, 5:2. So maximum 2 fast days a week, with a single meal at 500 calories intake, not 25% of TDEE. (To cover your nutritional (vit.+min.) needs.)

I think this approach is much safer than your current plan.

Wish you health and good luck!

I am very sorry to hear about your new health problems. And reading about your cortisol, I would totally forget about 5:2 fasting and try only intermittent fasting with 4 or 6 hours eating window, which (4/6) is less stressful.

May I ask about your height and current weight?

I hope that I’ve “translated” correctly as 60 kg at 1.60 m. I understand you. At this weight, intermittent fasting / IF (2 meals a day in a 4-6 hours eating window) should work for at least 5 kg fat loss. Probably 10 kg, for someone with a healthy metabolism. But this is under normal cortisol, estrogen, and without any interfering medication..

I hope that if you take it slowly, 0.5 – max 1 kg lost / month, you will be successful with IF. It would be great if you could talk also with a single good doctor about ALL the aspects of your health and come with a plan to cover all, including weight loss / weight gain cause(s). Because many times the problem is not “how to lose weight”, but “how not to gain”. Ex: if you gain weight from cortisol / estrogen, no diet / fasting pattern on this planet will gonna help you. Treat the (initial) cause (ex: high cortisol), not the symptom (weight gain).

Don’t let your mind to be overwhelmed. Take the big problems and break them in much smaller tasks, prioritize and go! (Little) Step by (little) step.

Wish you all the best! 🌷

@adaline, thank you again for so much helpful information — and so kindly given. I really appreciate it! I also anxiously await the call from one of my doctors (today or tomorrow) to discuss this all more thoroughly. This is only the beginning of finding out what’s wrong and beginning to address it all. Many more doctors will be consulted, worked directly with, and more tests given.

@simcoeluv, thank you for your concern, but I have permission to be exploring diets that could help me lose the extra weight. And I too have read the disclaimers for this diet/lifestyle change.

N.B.
men are doing this diet too

Chamolly, weight can be a poor indicator of what is going on and lots of things impact weight. I’ve been currently stuck in a range of 78kg to 82kg for a couple of months. However I’m pretty sure I’m still losing some body fat. Sometimes a cloth tape is your best friend.

Other things to keep in mind:

TDEE – the calculations are just estimates and for many people they can be way off. You have to find your true TDEE and only you can do that. Last summer I did have a DEXA scan and it computed my TDEE over 2800kc/day where as the calculator at this site gives me 2490 kc/day. However since then I’m down 7kg so I’m sure my TDEE has dropped some. It is just a number and your body doesn’t really track calories.

Calorie Counting – This is very error prone and it is based on the heat energy given off of food by methods your body doesn’t use. Even if you weigh your food perfectly you could still be off by 20% or more in calorie count because the number used are that crude.

Study – There is so much conflicting information about nutrition and diet. You have simply learn what works for you. What worked for me may not be what you need. Just be opened minded and learn all you can about your body because you are the only one that has your body.

Exercise – Short term it can really mess up your weight loss. Long term it can increase your basal metabolic rate, the amount of calories you burn doing nothing. Exercise is very good long term if it is they type that is building up your body. If you just try force your TDEE up by just moving more without building muscle you are probably going to defeat yourself. The most likely outcome is you will compensate by either moving less outside of exercise or by eating more than the energy expended.

Habits – I’ve lost around 60lbs (27kg) over about 4.5 years. What didn’t work at least long term was calorie restriction. What did work was changing habits. Changing habits take time but the impact can be great. Some of the changes I’ve made:

> I eat a LOT less added sugar, currently less than 5 teaspoons a day. (20g/day)
> I eat a LOT more fiber. Maybe too much at times and it can cause gas to be passed.
> I drink a LOT more water than I used to and a LOT less non-water.
> I exercise a LOT less but a LOT more intense. Generally my workouts are very painful.
> I’ve learn to fast some, that is why I’m here. 🙂

Big changes but made a step at a time.

Finally don’t give up. 60lbs may sound like a lot of weight and it is, but that was spread over 4.5 years. That works out to only about 1lb a month on the average. That is something that is often really hard to see while we are doing the journey.

Thanks for sharing. Here Bodyzwellness it is a fake weight Loss Clinic in Mumbai they offering Fake Obesity Programme done in Mumbai with No results.

Hello friends
I am a new member. I’m 39 ,female. My TDEE is 1520 and my BMR is 1266. In the past two months, I used 2,000 calories per day and (500 calories on the fast day ) ,my weight loss is very low.Unfortunately, I don’t know English well 😔 Please guide me how many calories I can eat on normal days and on the fast days.
Thanks

Soveida,
I have a TDEE of 1400. I now use 5:2 for maintenance but when I was losing weight I ate 400-500 calories on two fast days each week and around 1400 on the other days. The was more variability on the non-fasting days – sometimes I was near 1400, sometimes under and sometimes over (occasionally a lot over). By mostly staying near 1400 I did lose the weight I needed to. I didn’t want to control my eating too rigidly on the non-fasting days as I didn’t want to feel like I was on a diet every day.

There is a positive side to this. Once you get to your goal 5:2 helps keep your weight stable. I still fast 2 times each week and it gives me the freedom to eat a bit more than 1400 on the other days.

Simcoeluv, I just read the website you sent me. Thanks. I usually use the Mayo Clinic site for various things. My TDEE on the Mayo Clinic site is 400 calories less than it comes up on this site, for some reason, and that is with calculating the same activity level. When I determined my caloric intake for FDs,, I subtracted the 500 calories from the results from the Mayo Clinic calculator. I thought this site gave me too many calories. I eat nothing during my 24 hour fast hours. Take care! 🙂