ihateveg – if you’re averaging 1370 kcal intake on non-fastdays then you are still undereating by almost 300 calories below your BMR. NEVER EVER eat less than your BMR on a non-fastday. Treat the fastdays however you like, you don’t have to restrict to less than 500 but if you want to that’s fine as long as you’re eating up to AT LEAST your BMR on non-fastdays.

Your non-fastday target should be somewhere between your BMR and your TDEE numbers and if you’ve been undereating for a long time you can expect it to take a while for your body to recover enough to come out of starvation (“let’s save everything we possibly can”) mode.

If I were you I think I’d aim for at least a week of eating almost right up to my TDEE level (without any fast days) just to kick start your body’s recovery.

Good luck.

Hi ihateveg, hang in there, you will be so pleased when you start dropping the weight, Angie090465 is right, your body takes a while to adjust and once it has you will be very pleased.

Just dropping by to sympathise, ihateveg.

If you ever talk to anyone who is stick-thin and never had a weight problem, they really do not understand, but we do, we REALLY DO.

The advice you have been given seems sound (however unnerving) – it’s worth a couple of weeks trying, right?

My thoughts are with you!
Aud x

simcoeluv – “As for ‘starvation mode’, I suggest you check out the FAQ. You will see you need to not eat for a long, long time before you need to worry about that.”

Agreed, which is why we don’t usually just go ahead and assume that that is the problem when people start complaining about not losing weight on 5:2. However, on this and other threads ihateveg has made it clear that they have indeed been undereating for quite some considerable time. This IS a case of ‘starvation mode’. ihateveg needs to ‘normalise’ before there’s any chance of starting to lose weight in a healthy, sustainable way.

I gained weight in the 2nd/3rd week, lost centimetres but not weight in the 4th. Lost rings during the 5th/6th cos my fingers were slimmer and then in the day before my 6th week weigh in (was going away for the weekend so a day early)dropped the weight I’d gained and the day after ie 6w1d dropped 2 lb.

It sucks to gain weight and 99.9% of those who say they hit a plateau too, hit that plateau *after* losing some weight.

My advice is to try to stick with it, even if you’re very disappointed. There are other people on this site who didn’t lose to start with, or like us gained a little (I went up 2.2kg!) before starting to lose.

For myself I think it’s cos my body hit starvation mode in the 5 months I had to wait for gallbladder surgery – I simply couldn’t eat up to BMR let alone TDEE. I just couldn’t face another couple of pieces of steamed/poached white fish a day (and yes I’m a bit bitter about 147 days only eating white fish, pickles, berries). I think its taken the six weeks for my body to reset back to normal. I’ve tried to not eat exactly the same cals on my 5 days, but have 4 slightly less and 1 @300cal more day.

Hi – I only found out about this fast diet this weekend, sounds very good. I have’nt looked at the book just looked up the internet. Maybe you could answer a few queries please, i see abrievations everywhere — what do they mean TDEE-BMR. I see that for a male it is below 600 calories on fast day made up of plant/protein. I would probably need to get the books especially the food one, to ensure correct amounts. Could I for example have a bowl of porridge morning and evening with a coffee each time, I know this sounds boring but it would be convient and come in under the calorie count. I can vary with egg, bannana, fish etc but am just interested to see if a variety is important. Where is the best place to start–is it 2 meals a day-breakfast at 8 with as long a fast as possible- second meal at 7 evening and then nothing till I start a regular day the next morning? if you had a few do’s adn don’t what woudl they be; appreciate if you answer these–maybe there is a central query forum I should have accessed ??

@golf – the other page on the website it might be a good idea to read is
http://thefastdiet.co.uk/michael-answers-frequently-asked-questions/

great post @sylvestra – the FAQ answers the porridge question under
“What are the best foods for fast days?
•The Fast Diet book contains lots of recipes, the Fast Diet Recipe book has even more. The basic principle is to eat foods that are high in protein and fibre, as these are the most satiating. That means fish, meat, vegetables”

And best foods is very personal. Some people find eggs useful and tofu – me not so much.

I’ve never really looked into ‘the best’ foods to eat on fast or non-fastdays myself. For me the whole point has been that this lifestyle does not become something ‘new, different or strange’ compared with my ‘normal’ diet. I eat the same stuff I always ate, I just paid a bit more attention to the calorie counts for a while at the beginning. I don’t think my composition of protein vs fiber vs carbs has changed that much at all in the past 18 months and I don’t miss anything because I haven’t cut anything out. For me, all of that equals long-term sustainability but that’s also the good thing isn’t it – it’s whatever works for you.

Hi:

It is hard to ignore the advice of a doctor, especially when 5:2 has not been working.

But it has not been working because you have been eating too many calories.

First, I would guess the TDEE you computed for yourself was too high. I would try this link, put in sedentary, and see what you get: http://www.mayoclinic.org/calorie-calculator/ITT-20084939

This works with any diet, not just 5:2, so you will be able to see how much weight you might expect to lose under your new, but standard, low calorie diet.

Second, I noticed you actually started eating more calories. You will not lose weight by eating more calories, any more than you will gain weight by eating fewer calories.

I would give 5:2 a chance. Compute your new TDEE, and eat 500 or fewer on your diet days, and around your TDEE on non-diet days. Many people under estimate their caloric intake, so keep close track for one week to confirm you are actually eating to the level you think you are (after that you should be OK to estimate.) Give it at least a month or more before you decide.

Here are some tips that might help: http://thefastdiet.co.uk/forums/topic/warnings-to-newbies/

Good Luck!

Hi, I started this fast diet 3 weeks ago, today is the start of week 4.

I am disappointed as I have not lost any weight, I have been very good on my fast days and spread my meals out so I am eating little and often with the 500 calories I have. I have been drinking more water on my fast days that on my normal days.

On my normal (feast days) I am not even reaching my 2000 calorie allowance, as I am really trying hard so barely reach my 1500 calories mark.

I don’t have sugar in my drinks and I always opt for no added sugar and often go for healthier versions of puddings. I haven’t eaten crisps for over a month now. I am sticking to soup for my evening meals on my fast days.

Where am I going wrong? Have I missed something about the diet? Any guidance or advice would be appreciate, I have heard so many good things about this diet, so why is it not working for me? Feeling very deflated.

Pam

Hiya,
Re: “colleagues at work were suggesting I should not be missing breakfast as that is the most important meal of the day. But on this diet does this apply as we are only dieting 2 days a week?”

There will be people on here that don’t ‘believe in’ starvation mode as a concept but I do, despite never having experienced it myself and others on here have experienced it first hand and those who have been under eating long-term prior to starting 5:2 do tend to have a harder time getting anywhere with 5:2.

So that all being said; I know where your colleagues are coming from and they’re just watching out for you (re: starvation mode) but 2 days a week wont hurt at all if you miss breakfast and/or lunch, so just break your fastday calories up however will work best for you. Personally I eat 1 meal of 500 calories really late on my fastdays and just have water prior to that – no problem whatsoever once you get used to it.

The important thing (and this is where the ‘starvation mode non-believers’ would disagree with me) is to make sure you eat more than your BMR and less than or equal to your TDEE on non-fastdays if you are trying to lose weight. I am of the opinion that, if you eat less than your BMR then it’s not just ‘messing about with meal timings’ it is actually depriving the body of the minimum calorie requirements it needs and not just twice a week (which shouldn’t do any damage) but REGULARLY. I think if you eat too few calories too regularly, your body will do everything it can to hang on to your fat, assuming that it’s in the middle of some kind of famine. 5:2 works because you have short ‘lean’ periods during your week but the body never has to deal with more than 1 ‘lean’ day at a time and is ‘properly’ fed the next day – it doesn’t ‘think’ it’s about to starve to death and so it doesn’t hang on to your fat reserves.

If you follow the plan then you ‘should’ lose about 1lb per-week. However everyone is different and rates fluctuate wildly between individuals and as discussed, some lose weight while others lose inches and some take a while to lose anything at all but may still get all of the health benefits.

As long as you are heading downwards week-on-week, after you’ve given it a good month of doing it properly, then I would recommend that you just concentrate on getting comfy with the lifestyle and doing it right (for you) and don’t freak out too much if you’re not losing quite as fast as you think you should be.

Hi:

There is no such thing as a starvation mode for people that have a body fat level of above 5%. That is not a belief or an opinion, it is a clinical trial proven fact.

The ‘starvation mode’ happens when the body, because of calorie deprivation, significantly reduces its metabolism rate. Research conducted in 1950 took a group of healthy men and put them on a diet equaling one-half of their TDEE for six months. In addition, they had to walk 22 miles a week. Detailed measurements of their metabolism rates were taken constantly throughout the six month period.

Their metabolism rates fell slightly as their weight decreased, as most people on this site understand. However, they continued to lose weight at an expected rate over time – until they hit the 5% body fat level, when the real starvation mode kicked in. At that point, their metabolism rates decreased by 40% as their bodies tried to reduce the amount of muscle (like the heart) they were eating to stay alive. Even after this point, however, they continued to lose weight, but just not as fast as before. So even after their metabolisms slowed 40% they continued to lose weight at a calorie level of half their TDEEs.

I’m sure someone wrote a book sometime saying that the reason for what are called plateaus is that dieters were eating too few calories, but the book was wrong. The body does not drastically reduce its metabolism when calories are restricted – it burns fat for fuel instead and keeps going as usual until the danger of death from starvation arrives.

The FAQs at the top of the page were not answered by uninformed or ignorant people. They state that the starvation mode is a myth. It is.

Arla:

Perhaps I have.

Tracy:

I understand your thought process and admire your concern that a dieter might not keep at it if it is too hard. I, too, am concerned that those finding 5:2 may give up and in doing so reject the most effective weight loss diet I have ever seen. But I disagree with your concept that a person that is earnestly, and maybe desperately, trying to lose weight and not being successful should consume more calories as a cure. If consuming more calories caused weight loss, no one would be fat.

My opinion, based on all of my training and research, is really basic – a person has to eat less than their TDEE to lose weight. If a person is eating less than their TDEE but not losing weight, and the lack of weight loss is over a period of a month or less, the failure to lose weight is probably water weight related. That is why so many people recommend that a person also measure – people often find that while they are not losing weight, they are losing inches. The measurement loss represents fat loss, while the lack of weight loss represents water retention. At some point, the fat weight loss overwhelms the water weight retention and scale weight loss resumes. This usually happens within a month.

If, however, a person is on a diet (any calorie restricted diet, not just 5:2) and does not lose weight for over a month ‘while doing everything right’, they are, by definition, eating to their TDEE (or more). To resume (or start) their weight loss, they need to eat less than they have been eating.

One basic problem that causes this issue is how to accurately determine your TDEE. A person plugs their numbers into a TDEE calculator an gets a number. The problem is that any TDEE calculator can be wrong for any given individual, sometimes by quite a bit. The debate about ‘adaptive thermogenesis’ (‘AI’) is really a debate about the level of a person’s TDEE. The concept argues that a person that has lost quite a bit of weight actually takes on a metabolism level lower than any TDEE calculator would predict.

However, there is no scientific evidence that AI prevents weight loss. Unfortunately, there are tens of millions of people losing weight and then starving to death that prove that point. AI, if it exists and affects a person, simply reduces their TDEE to a level lower than a similar sized/active person that is not affected by it. As a result, the AI affected person has to eat even fewer calories to attain their desired weight loss.

It is sad but true that the human body is really quite efficient and does not need a tremendous number of calories to operate. When placed in a situation common in the developed world where eating and drinking have become part of a person’s entertainment, rather than just what a person does to survive, it is easy to see why weight gain has become such a problem. And why weight loss seems so hard.

So my position is that weight loss is hard. It requires that a person eat much less than they are used to eating. Maintaining weight loss is even harder, because it takes much less food than we would like to eat to not regain lost weight. Weight loss is also slow. Regardless of the headlines, it is very difficult for any person to consistently over time lose much more than a pound a week, and the numbers show that females have an even harder time losing that much because of their lower TDEEs. So I try to temper expectations of rapid weight loss and prepare a newbie for the long haul. I’ve been doing 5:2 for almost a year, and I know it will be at least another year before I get to where I want to be. 5:2 is a diet that allows me to know that it will happen if I don’t quit. And by letting me eat the foods I want to eat in normal amounts five days a week, it is the easiest diet I have ever found not to quit.

That is the point. Do 5:2 properly, and don’t quit. A year from now you will wish you started today.

Hi Simcoeluv, I have no argument with anything you said above and never have had. I don’t advocate that anyone overeat in order to lose weight. I ALWAYS say ‘comfortably between your BMR and TDEE’ on non-fastdays for weight loss. I accept that the TDEE calculator may be wrong for ‘some’ individuals, like poor Arla or Ihateveg maybe(?), although without being a doctor or nutritionist I wouldn’t like to speculate in their cases, as there are probably other complications and contributing factors.

However, MOST people will be fine following that advice and using the calculator on this site.

My issue is with advocating that people should eat below their BMR to lose weight. I don’t think that is helpful to anyone, especially newbies starting out and that is why I try to curb people who come on here and think that that is the route to quicker weight loss. Whether it is or not is irrelevent, very overweight individuals will drop a lot of weight anyway just by following the BMR-TDEE advice and everyone else would find the whole lifestyle so much healthier and more manageable if they didn’t treat it like a bikini diet.

I think we probably agree on most of this, so I’m going to go away and stop repeating myself constantly about it.