This topic contains 991 replies, has 70 voices, and was last updated by Cinque 2 years, 3 months ago.
Hi:
This is a 2017 lecture by Dr. Valter Longo covering some of his research on diet and longevity, including his ‘fast mimicking’ diet. Very much interesting information on diets in general (not weight loss diets, but what foods to eat) and the results of some of his clinical studies on fasting, longevity and disease: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgo5-5f3Q-Q
Don’t let the title fool you – it is not the BBC program.
Enjoy!
Hi:
An interview with Dr. Longo. Technical, but he covers eating windows, cancer and MS results with his fasting mimicking diet. He points out that the power of the fasting lies in the breakdown of various body parts and the subsequent rebuilding of the body. He said that does not occur with short, eating window type fasts. He explained that he was unable to get doctors and patients to fast, so he developed the diet. Now many doctors and patients are using it with apparently great results: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6PyyatqJSE
Hi diver:
I also am a big fan. His diet is pure genius. When he wanted to begin human trials he found it almost impossible to find willing participants. It took him six years to get 18 patients (and their doctors) willing to try to find out if fasting could help with beating cancer.
So he asked doctors and patients if they would be willing to participate in a trial if he gave them a special diet in a box. This completely changed their thought processes. From fasting, meaning hunger and possible death to patients already sick, it changed to diet, which all doctors and patients were familiar with. They could still eat, and as with all diets they would have to change what they ate – but for only 5 days.
He is now working with 200 doctors and has filled several studies with willing participants. His human research on fasting has been advanced by years. All because patients refused to fast, but were happy to diet.
But for people used to fasting, the fast mimicking diet is a waste of money. As it says, the diet mimics a fast so why pay money for a diet that you can get for free by just not eating?
Fasting is the problem that haunts 5:2, ADF and therapeutic fasting. People hear ‘fast’ and are scared. A survey showed most people think you will die if you go without food for 10 days, and they are certain that they will be hungry the whole time. Many that come to this site admit their initial fears, but I’m sure there are thousands, if not millions, that simply aren’t interested in trying the diet because it is a dangerous fad. A recent survey of 40 weight loss diets listed 5:2 almost last. The reason given why it was so bad? “Not surprisingly, the experts had plenty of concerns, and the Fast Diet landed toward the bottom of the Best Diets Overall rankings.” That was it. Pure ignorance on the part of the ‘experts’ in my opinion.
Hi penguin:
LOL. And, really, you don’t have to go that long!
I guess a bit over a year ago Dr. Longo published a book called ‘The Longevity Diet’. It was published in Italian. It has just been released in English within the last month, I think. I believe it will more fully explain his dietary thoughts and reasons behind them. I have ordered it and can’t wait to get through it. Reading his clinical publications is one thing. I’m eager to see how he puts that content in plain English for the general population.
As an aside, the fasting mimicking diet can be purchased on line. I don’t remember the name of the company. Dr. Longo has made a point of explaining that although he conceived of and created both the diet and the company that sells it, he is not a paid employee of or paid consultant to the company. He felt it would be a conflict of interest to be sharing the exciting news of his research results and (perhaps) profiting from the diet that causes them at the same time. But, as I said, you can get the same results for free by just fasting.
I also watched the podcast with interest.
I have infusions of a drug called abatacept every 4 weeks to treat Rheumatoid Arthritis. This suppresses my immune system – specifically my T cells. After every infusion I used to get similar side effects to chemo for 2-3 days. I did some reading on the research into using fasting and eating windows for those on chemo. I trialed a few options and found that if I don’t need a 5 days of fasting to get the benefit that I was after. I do one normal fasting day on the day before treatment and I now get few side effects. I am particularly glad that I no longer get the nausea and vomiting. I still feel fatigued, and sometimes have a headache but these were the least problematic of the side effects. Unfortunately nothing stops the alopecia.
I should probably also say that I don’t eat breakfast and generally have a food free period every day of 16-20 hours, even on NFDs. I don’t know whether this is also partly responsible for the reduction of side effects from treatment.
I realise this is different to some of the material Dr Longo covered as he was more interested in depriving the cancer cells of food. However one of the many articles that they showed in the podcast was one of those that I had originally read that looked at remission of chemo symptoms using fasting for 26, 48 and 72 hours.
Hi L:
You probably know, but Dr. Goldhamer at the True North center in Santa Rosa, CA, has for decades successfully reversed Rheumatoid Arthritis in his patients using long term fasting. Dr Goldhamer has authored several clinical studies published both in the U.S. and Great Britain. If you haven’t run into him, any Google will bring up much information including god knows how many YouTube videos. When you see his picture, I understand his age is around 60 and in one interview he states he hopes that his full court basketball game improves enough in his 60s and 70s to allow him to beat his friend at the game.
The messy facts…… I think it’s far more important to minimize toxins than to try and eat antioxidants and fix the damage.
Our water food, cleaning products and personal products are loaded with toxins. Not to mention the lectins our friends the plants engineer to make us sick
More and move data showing that most autoimmune sickness are triggered by these toxins.
simcoeluv. After a few years of 5:2 I no longer feel frightened by the word fasting so I will merge Dr Longo’s approach into my existing pattern. I hit my first weight target last summer and am now, not very seriously, trying to nudge it down another 7 pounds, but I am more concerned with fitness than weight. When I was seriously trying I found a water only fast from Sunday evening to Wednesday lunch to be very effective and surprisingly easy, so his approach should very manageable. I am going to look for the book and rewatch the video – the thought that I can kill half of my sadly abused liver and replace it with a new half is very attractive!
This thread has added greatly to my knowledge. Here I saw the the link to the video of Tim Spector’s lecture and bought his book “The Diet Myth” , which is one of the most enlightening reads I have encountered in years and which I pick up almost daily.
Simcoeluv – the fast mimicking diet you mention which was created by Prof. Walter Longo is marketed under the brand name ProLon.
It is expensive £225 for one cycle but I was emailed a code “newyou” (registered a few months back but didn’t order) that gives you a £25 discount.
I’m about to start a 5 day cycle soon-ish and will let you know the results.
For anyone interested… https://prolon.co.uk
Hi:
I just finished reading The Longevity Diet.
Everyone – please, Please, PLEASE READ IT!
It not only covers cancer and diabetes (both 1&2!), but also MS, RA, and the prevention and TREATMENT of Alzheimer’s, among others. Eating windows, and even a short segment on 5:2 are also included.
Just read it.
Hi:
Hardly scientific, but fairly representative of what happens if you go on a ketogenic diet. It is interesting to me that the author used the phrase ‘starvation mode’ to describe the body’s metabolism increasing in speed 10 times! Seems every one has their own definition when they don’t know what it really is. https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/nutrition/i-went-on-the-silicon-valley-diet-craze-that-encourages-butter-and-bacon-for-2-months-—-and-it-vastly-improved-my-life/ss-BBHKubw?ocid=spartandhp#image=1
Great Valter Longo references simcoeluv. Valter Longo gives a clear way of understanding how to engage the body’s natural healing abilities in natural ways – and why the benefits of (natural) fasting go way beyond that which flows from simple weight reduction. Looking forward to reading his book on Kindle. Thank you.
I would see a return to a more natural (and low processed) diet would similarly help engage the body’s natural defenses against ill health.
The AMA, the Australian representative body for medical doctors, has urged a tax be placed on sugar drinks similar to that introduced in the UK. The two major political parties are currently resisting this expert advice. It seems to me that, for whatever reason, our health plays second fiddle to special interest group profits in their economic rationalist eyes.
https://ama.com.au/media/transcript-dr-gannon-today-show-ama-proposal-tax-sugar-sweetened-beverages
The research below concluded that approx 60% of the calories in the typical American diet, and 90% of the added sugar, comes from ultra-processed foods like frozen pizzas, canned soups and cookies.
And that each 5% increase in proportionate energy intake from ultra processed foods increased the proportionate energy intake from added sugar by 1%.
http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/3/e009892
Interesting that in a recent survey of diets, selected ‘diet experts’ ranked the keto diet in last place. But then, they probably see fasting as a fad and sugar drinks as part of a ‘balanced diet’. Valter Longo, in the second video you referenced, privileged fasting over keto, in the same way he priviliged fasting over calorie restriction. He didn’t claim keto or calorie restriction lacked benefits over typical eating patterns, just that natural fasting achieved similar ends more effectively, and without their downsides.
Hi Onel:
The politics around diet and nutrition are awesome to watch. The low fat diet was adopted as the U.S. gold standard largely because the academic promoting it was politically connected and teamed up with a U.S. Senator who wanted to run for President. The net result was that the government adopted the diet, promoted it, forced it to be used in school lunch programs and taught in schools and cut nutritional research funding to any other academics who disagreed with it. As part of the government’s education program, it even published pamphlets saying diabetics could eat sugar – but not fat. The results were equally awesome – an obesity epidemic and rapidly increasing levels of heart disease, diabetes and cancer.
I remember orange juice as another example. The government set ‘minimum daily requirements’ for some vitamins and minerals. When initially set, one six ounce glass of orange juice provided 100% of the MDR for vitamin C. The orange juice marketers made this the centerpiece of their marketing programs for decades. As information on vitamins progressed, it became clear that the initial vitamin C MDR was insufficient and quite a bit more was suggested. The political battle over whether or not to increase the MDR for vitamin C was epic. It was finally changed, and given the cost or orange juice, they no longer advertise that a glass of any size meets the MDR.
Now that it has been determined that sugar is probably a slow acting poison in humans, juice makers (and other soft drink providers) selling basically sugar water are once again under siege. Expect this battle to be epic, also.
As for Dr. Longo, I would not be surprised if the receives a Nobel Prize some day. Not just for his findings, but because he turned the whole conversation on its head – instead of talking about researching the aging process and how we age, he talks about researching how to stay young!
Hi again simcoeluv,
Agreed. Health policy, in my eyes, does seem to be influenced (if not determined) by factors unrelated to best health. Eg Are artificial sweeteners healthy as claimed? Or even safe? Sadly, I don’t trust FDA approval to mean that they are.
PS I’ve edited my last posting, adding a paragraph about my interpretation of Longo’s response to a question about keto.
The first 32 pages of Dr Valter Longo’s book (try before you buy) are here:
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=z1tDDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA1&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false
Thanks for the link above. I was interested in the people doing the research and tracked down the lead author. Looks like they have found genetic links to insulin resistance. Also links between viral infections and insulin resistance. And gut bacteria and insulin resistance. And many other findings that are difficult to understand. The path from health to illness (and back again) seems to vary a lot from person to person.
Hi:
Probably more than you want to know about fasting, intermittent fasting and time restricted eating.
Fasting, Circadian Rhythms, and Time-Restricted Feeding in Healthy Lifespan
Author Valter D.Longo: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413116302509
Enjoy!
Finished Longo’s “The Longevity Diet”. Lot’s of well thought out and documented findings. Highly recommended. Buy it, his profits are donated to a good foundation.
I was already quite familiar with his work from articles, podcasts and reading some of his papers. It’s great to have a well organized and cogent presentation all in one place
Hi:
A 2018 interview with Dr. Longo. If you can’t get the book, this will give some information. Some people may be interested in his views on 16:8 and skipping breakfast (hint – don’t do either).
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube+dr+longo&view=detail&mid=6D8F7CB8DEE99AFB8F436D8F7CB8DEE99AFB8F43&FORM=VIRE
Thanks simcoeluv. Very interesting take on doing 5 days of consecutive fasting-mimicking rather than 2 separate days a week. I feel conflicted as 5:2 is working for me but maybe 5 consecutive days once a month is better for weight loss and health? Maybe most people doubt they can do 5 consecutive days? Do you mind me asking what pattern you follow?
simcoeluv. Thanks sim. There are now lots of interviews available on line and the newspapers and women’s mags have taken it up with suggested diets. Its getting like the early days of 5:2. I shall be glad when they release the book in UK and I can sort the reality from the money-making spin-offs. From what I have seen so far it does not seem difficult to achieve the five days of fasting. Compared to 5:2 the allowances are generous and I usually water fast anyway. What I am waiting for with interest is his suggested lifestyle diet between fasts.
Penquin, here is the Cliff’s notes version. Relatively low protein and fat, relatively high carbs. Protein from fish and veggies, fat from olive oil and nuts, carbs from whole grains and veggies, minimise dairy and red meat.
Over 65 can increase protein and calories to help with muscle retention.
I like what he is saying and already eat this way with the exception of the whole grains (wheat). I’ve been tested and I know it’s very inflammatory for me. And it’s not from the gluten, it’s the WGA lectins in the bran.
penguin:
Diver is right – it is a pescetarian diet – basically vegan with fish two or three times a week. The percentage breakdown is 60% cal. from carbs (mostly plant based), 30% from good fats, like those in olive oil, nuts and coconut oil, and 10% from protein – basically the fish, in addition to that found in the plants. The food types allowed are not precisely defined. The only food types prohibited are sugar and fat and protein from animals (including chicken).
While I really suggest the entire video be viewed because it contains new and updated information not in the book (the book was originally published in Italian over a year ago, and the video adds to and expands on the information in the book), if you are only interested in what Dr. Longo regularly eats just go to the last 5 minutes of the video and he gives his standard breakfast, lunch and dinner meals. I like the diet for many reasons, but as it allows bread (whole grain flour), alcohol, pasta and potatoes, it makes it easier for me to follow.
He also modifies the diet not only by age, but also by disease prevention and/or treatment. For instance, for Alzheimer’ prevention, he adds 3-4 cups of coffee a day, more fats including the addition of coconut oil, and daily multi-vitamins. So the details of the diet depend on both your age and your health concerns. It is not a one size fits all diet.
I don’t know what the ‘knock off’ books look like, but I suggest you not bother with them. The book is full of information that all serves as pieces of a puzzle that he fits together into an integrated plan that non-scientific people can understand. It is very hard to isolate one part of the book without missing out on the ‘why’ it is the way it is. I like Longo’s comments about diets – he points out that to build a space ship it takes the top minds in the world coming together to engineer and produce the vehicle, but anyone that wants to can publish diet that could be harmful to millions of people because they have no clue what they are talking about.
I’m convinced Longo knows what he is talking about.
Hi cornish:
I really do not feel doing five consecutive water fasting days a month is a doable way for most to lose weight. Most are simply afraid of fasting and won’t do it. It is hard to plan five non-eating days monthly from a social and work aspect, newbies, especially, often get sick about days three and four as their body switches into ketosis (called the ‘keto flu’) and you have to be constantly aware of low blood pressure that can cause you to faint. Experienced fasters can dodge the second and third concerns, but the social/work aspect is always there.
As a newbie, very few can embark on a first time five day fast and survive. They usually drop out about days three or four, and never fast again. We recently had a poster on this site that bought the Prolon diet and complained that the diet was terrible because it caused her to vomit and feel terrible (keto flu). A few years ago, around the time 5:2 was introduced to Australia, there was apparently a TV program that suggested the way to do 5:2 was to begin with a four day fast. This site had many enthusiastic posters embarking on their fasts, none of which, I believe, have been heard from since.
Dr. M decided in the Eat, Fast and Live Longer video that doing four day fasts was unworkable for him and most others. The 5:2 that he decided on has now been proven to be a viable weight loss diet for many people. If it is working for you, I would stick with it.
If you have health concerns going past weight loss, then, perhaps, five day fasts would be appropriate. You need to read Dr. Longo’s book, ‘The Longevity Diet’, to see which health concerns he has addressed in lab and human trials to see if your concern might be addressed by his diet and his fasts. If it is, I suggest you ‘work up’ to five day fasts by starting first with 36 hour water fasts. Then go to two consecutive day 60 hour water fasts (both within 5:2). Then to three, then to four or more. Doing 60 hour water fasts is right on the edge of providing some ‘other health benefits’, so if you can do them weekly you might be helping yourself a bit without the problems associated with five day fasts.
To answer your question, I have decided to follow his diet and go with the monthly five day fasts. Starting in 2013, I lost about 50 pounds with 5:2 in about two plus years, and since then with concerted effort and hard work have managed to gain back 10 of them. I am quite happy with my 40 pound loss, but still can stand to lose some more.
But I am not switching to The Longevity diet to lose weight. I have a long family history of Alzheimer’s, and at this point Dr. Longo’s research is the only hope around for stalling the onset of Alzheimer’s. I have been following his research for years and have read most of his more recent publications (and several older ones). I started sporadically doing five plus day fasts about three years ago, so they do not bother me like they might a newbie. And I am retired, and can within reason find five days a month when I can get away without having to eat anything. His new book brought together all of his research over the last 20+ years into a plan that I can follow, so I’m going to try.
But I still think 5:2 is the best weight loss plan I’ve ever seen or worked with, and continue to highly recommend it for anyone wanting to lose weight and gain the benefits that come from substantial weight loss. If given a chance, it will change a person’s eating habits for the better and can provide a life long tool for managing weight over time.
Hope this helps, and Good Luck!
Thanks sim and dog. My interest, apart from wanting to stay fit and healthy, is that there is a strong cancer history in my family; the only one who didn’t get cancer was taken out in his early years by Typhoid. I have had colon cancer. I am not stressed about this, I have made it to 73 years, but if it is possible I would like to influence the odds. I had lost a serious amount of weight with 5:2 before I had the cancer, but then I was just counting the calories and not being too fussed about the quality. The colon cancer started a serious interest in what I put into my body. Mostly veg with fish two or three times a week sounds OK to me. I have been following Prof Tim Spector’s ideas for some time and the plans seem compatible. I guess minimise dairy means I will have to rethink my daily kefir consumption.
I will watch that video again – must admit I skimmed and skipped last time.
Hi penguin:
The book has a long chapter on cancer, including prevention. The prevention diet is different from the standard diet in that it limits fish to one or two times a week rather than two to three. Protein from all sources should be limited to .31 grams per pound of body weight per day. Reduce sugars to very low levels and minimize bread and pasta consumption. Exercise. Do the five day fast/fasting mimicking diet every one to three months. “Nourish yourself” by eating very nutrient dense foods. Talk with your doctor about taking 6 grams of vitamin C daily for a few weeks every six months. Eat a lot of good fats, but not saturated fats (even those that are plant based, like from coconut oil, for instance). And finally, consume as little alcohol as possible.
Hope this gives you a head start.
Thanks so much simcoeluv. Yes, I think I will stick to 5:2 as I am still making good progress and have a way to go on the weight loss side. I don’t have any other health issues that make me think the 5 day fast is worth it – yet! I’m intrigued though as I think maybe the disease prevention is better with fasts longer than a day or so. I agree that Dr Longo should get a nobel prize for his work.
I am moving more towards the whole-food plant-based approach to eating having done a lot of reading on this. It seems just as important to eat healthy on Non Fast Days as it does to lose the excess weight on the Fast Days. There is no point putting in all the effort of fasting just to turn into a TOFI!
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