Welcome to The Fast Diet › The official Fast forums › Body › General health › White sugar is the tip of the iceberg…
This topic contains 88 replies, has 53 voices, and was last updated by daisybouquet 11 months, 2 weeks ago.
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26 Apr 16
Yeah I’d say eat a piece at a time, enjoy it ! Relish it each day instead of all at once. That takes some courage Shaheeda !
27 Apr 16
Will try harder. 😇
1 May 16
Same here Linda !
Coffee has real flavor and perfum these days ! As do fruits !
Must say I don’t miss the sugar either ! I don’t do juices of any kind either.
If I do use sugar , I’ve found a raw sugar from Peru, a deep brown. Used sparingly, it underlines other flavors. And I also use a tiny bit of sea salt from Guerande with sugar, which helps bring out a fuller flavor.
As for supplements ? I don’t go that direction me self. Expensive. I’d much rather know what was in my diet.
Eating is such a marvelous moment. in pill form, where’s the joy ?
2 May 16
Hm, it suppresses the appetite that´s how it can help, at least for me. The joy is that I will eat less, and the result is a slimmer body! Expensive, not really, just take a look. Hopefully it will help me to get better habits and then I will not need them any longer.
Right. I get it Linda. I had a year of things like this many years ago, prescribed by a doctor. All plant based etc. My work partner said if I ever did anything like this again, she would stop working with me. She was right! I was odious ! My appetite came back with such force in the year following this “appetite suppressing pill” moment that I gained everything back that I had lost and more. That doctor i later learned had been hauled up in front of the french medical board as he had prescribed this stuff to a patient that had had cardiac problems because of it. I’d be even more cautious with stuff like this that you order online. As you are well aware Dr. Mosely does not condone anything like this in ANY of his writing nor on this website. In fact? I hope you will edit those links out in your posts.
Thank You. I know you are just trying to help others by sharing your experience. Me too. But I don’t think diet supplements counts as something we want to read about.
23 May 16
I am a big fan of your TV documentaries and books. My family has a history of type 2 diabetes, which I am keen to avoid for myself, and my wife’s family has a history of bowel and other related cancers or chronic conditions, such as IBS. My wife has recently been diagnosed with osteoporosis and also suffers frequently from stomach cramps, which she is told by her GP may be due to FODMAP or IBS issues. I am a believer in the right diet being the best course of action as preventative ‘medicine’. My concern is that I over the years have read many different books and articles on nutrition and specific diets such as “80:10:10”, Paleo and the Mediterranean diet etc. Most of these works reference supposedly valid scientific studies and yet offer totally contradictory advice on what foods are good for you and which ones should be avoided. The 80:10:10 book for example argues that humans have not evolved to eat meat, grains, legumes, dairy, nuts or cooked food and centres its’ dietary advice on eating raw fruit (particularly bananas)and green vegetables. It would seem that the average person like me is bombarded with misinformation from vested interests in the food, diet, pharmaceutical and supplements industries and I am left none the wiser as to what is the optimum diet for humans and who is closest to knowing ‘the truth about food and health’ (a good title for a documentary I think). I am therefore left none the wiser in trying to make an informed decision about the best dietary course of action for my wife and I. My question is therefore, in the process of your research, did you review the literature relating to other diets, such as 80:10:10, and their claims and, if so, what conclusions did you draw from the science in each case to sway you towards the virtues of the Mediterranean diet?
Hum mm. Tony C : only us chickens here in this thread. The thread was of course started by Michael where he offered the drawing of how sugar in our diet is represented as an iceberg the size of the one that sunk the Titanic. That hidden sugar sinks us too !
So your questions as to does Michael compare the 5:2 diet that he and Mimi are working on to other diet ideas ? Don’t know if you will find an answer here in this particular thread. You might find an answer in some of the other threads here on site. tell you what I’ll have a look around just as a favor to a fellow dieter.
My guess is that a diet proposing JUST raw food etc isn’t what Michael and Mimi had in mind. Their general idea seems to me to be just calorie reduction two days a week and the other times continuing a very varied and one might say normal diet. As for are they interested in comparing other diets ? I’d guess yes! Will they’re sharing their research ? Again I’d say yes in and as it pertains to their 5:2. I mean you would be interested in what research findings someone else was sharing in your field of interest and expertise. Right ?
back in a sec.
Ok Tony C Think might find your answer here in this thread here on site : ” what is the right diet for you ? ” Michael addresses this question rather generally.
Personally I have never seen a post on this site where Michael or Mimi responds to a direct question. They post for the benefit of all of us not responding to just one person.
Looking around the site you will see that there are posts looking for subjects (in the UK ) that are starting this diet for legitimate research on dieting. What their results are? I have no idea !
We are all interested in the legitimate scientific evidence regarding these weight loss programs. The subjective experience is of course interesting. But that is all it is. Subjective.
All of us here following posts on this site are with you and your wife in your search for weight loss !
We are all in the same boat Sir ! Hoping to avoid the iceberg that sunk even larger boats than ours !
Best to you,
Thanks for that. It’s the first time I’ve been on the site and wasn’t sure how it worked, the best thread to follow or how to contact Michael or his team directly. Hopefully I will find some answers to my general dietary confusion. Good luck with your efforts.
Some excellent posts, I’ve just read back through. Simcoeluv’s post re skimmed milk from last year, is very revealing, as it shows that milk, even full fat, is pretty low in both fat and sugars, provided it’s not fortified. Eg at around 4% fat, per 100grams of milk that’s 36 cals from fat, 4 grams sugars is 16 cals. So cal wise if you halve the fats and up the sugars to 7 grams (UK) it’s still not bad. However, if you take into account all the things we’ve learned about fat and sugar, better 36 cals fat and 16 cals sugars than semi skimmed milk with more sugar and less fat (28 cals for sugar and 18 cals fat). All that processing to reduce the cal difference by very little. And the fat is better for you than sugar. I was using semi skimmed till I went on this diet, now I’m using full fat, though I try to get non- homogenised and have the top of the milk on non FD days. It’s so little, though, hardly worth bothering. Even Jersey milk is only 5-5.5%!
Hi Tony C ! no problem ! contacting “Michael and his team directly” is a bit like being on Facebook and saying you would like Mark Zuckerburg to answer a question you had about something on “his” site. basically like any social media site, this is “our” site. No way to put that in italics sorry !
but I think you get my drift? answers come from our sharing personal experience. All that rests subjective but somehow encouraging as we are all on this collective journey here to better health. It’s a pretty simple exercise in collective growth.
Operative word is collective. It’s not just Michael (or Mimi !) that is offering you their research and experience. As scientists, yes it is they. But as subjects, it’s really all of us that are participating in this larger experiment of 5:2 fast(ing ) diet.
Good luck to you Tony. And your wife. Seems like she (and you!) is dealing with quite a few health issues. Hopefully trying 5:2 will offer some solace and progress towards better health and feeling for you both.
Ooo Apricot good point on the milk sugars/fat in milk and milk products !
Yeah I am back to full fat yogurt etc too as the reduction in fat finally isn’t helpful in ones feeling of satiety.
Prior to going on the 5:2 over a year and a half ago, I was downing almost a liter of lactose free milk a day. Goodness ! it’s embarrassing to say that now! They increase other sugars to replace the loss of lactose (a sugar !) and the result is something even sweeter than the original ! Yikes ! Took me such courage to take that kind of foodstuff out of my diet. Same with all the zero percent yogurts etc. Loss of the fat doesn’t help you finally.
Fat is back in favor !
Yes, me too for the full fat yogurt, though I did have 0% Greek for a while for FDs. But satiety is more of an issue for me in not going over cals than a few less here or there. Better 5-600 and stick to it than 4-500 and eat more late at night!
2 Oct 16
Trying Harder, I think i can solve that mystery. Bread, pasta, rice and potatoes are quickly broken down into glucose, sending your blood sugar rocketing. This is a problem that the body has to solve and it sends insulin to pull out the glucose. Insulin can only do one thing with the glucose and that’s store it as fat. Your blood sugar will now crash and you’ll be sent a signal that you’re hungry, so you eat more sugar or food that’s essentially glucose and on it goes.
There’s a lot of confusion on here about fat – it’s your friend! Three meta analysis, including from Cambridge and Harvard, have found no link between fat and heart disease. It was abysmal science from Ancel Keys, who Dr Mosley calls a ‘villain’ in his online talks. Take a look.
All natural fats are filling, so people who eat low-carb, high fat have no trouble controlling their appetites, which is why they find fasting much easier than most people. Avoid artificial fats, such as vegetable oils and margerine. The research has been consistently worrying since the 1960s, but much of it wasn’t published because they’d wrongly decided saturated fat was the problem. Low-carb and high fat is the way to go. Remember carbohydrate = glucose.
8 Jan 17
So please tell me: if you can’t have honey or even dried fruit on your porridge…..what do you do to make it something other than utterly boring and virtually inedible PRISON food…??
I really WANT to eat porridge because it’s very healthy, but if i can’t have HONEY on it….?? What should I do? Any answers?
Hi Billyboyy, Have you tried sprinkling fresh blueberries over your porridge or mixing in frozen berries? Another variation could be coconut threads/shredded sprinkled on top. Also for crunch you could toast some sunflower seeds, which are easy to toast in a hot skillet, and then sprinkle them on top.
Fresh fruit at least contains some fiber which slows the release of sugar into the blood stream as we digest it, so any other fresh fruit on top of the porridge could work, though berries apparently have lower amounts of sugar than other fruit and to me, kind of lend themselves to porridge adorning.
I loved having porridge with a few raisins added to it, and a sprinkle of sugar. When I gave up eating sugar (including fruit) I just couldn’t come at porridge without it. It took two years!
But after that time, I could try it again and loved it. Having it plain is my new norm and it is as tasty and comforting and pleasurable as it ever was. I think it was more waiting for my brain to change, than waiting for my tastebuds!
You might have to be patient, but you will get there!
In the meantime there are lots of other wonderful breakfasts! (Chickpea pancakes are one of my current favourites!)
PS Hi Lael!
P.S. Billyboyyy, I might add that according to Dr. Gary Fettke, an Australian orthopedic surgeon who works with diabetics, our bloodstream can only cope with 4 grams of sugar floating around within our veins and arteries at one time. So, if we eat food that quickly releases more than that into our bloodstream at once, there is only one option, which is to secrete more insulin so that it is stored as fat.
I just checked and see that 1 teaspoon of honey contains 6 grams of sugar. Maybe you could get away with a teaspoon or so on the porridge, if indeed the fiber in the oat porridge happens to slow the absorption of the honey/sugar into your bloodstream. I’m guessing you also eat your porridge with milk, so there would be more grams of sugar in the milk from the lactose to consider too.
“So please tell me: if you can’t have honey or even dried fruit on your porridge…..what do you do to make it something other than utterly boring and virtually inedible PRISON food…??”
Have you ever tried a savory version? I use steel-cut oats which are very hardy and satisfyingly chewy. Sauté them in some fat with some onion and/or shallots. Olive oil, butter or reserved chicken or beef fat all work well and have their own character. Boil the sautéed oats in a vegetable or meat broth — roughly 4 parts water to 1 part of oats. Then cover on a slow simmer for about 20 minutes. Add whatever veggies you like deciding which are best boiled with the oats and which better added at the end after their own light sauté. Hint: dense things like carrots want cooking; things like asparagus tips and mushrooms a light sauté. Add chopped fresh herbs at the end for a bright flavor.
Serve them as an accompaniment to meat like polenta or pilaf or add a bit of protein and have them as a main course like risotto. It’s really quite yummy and very satisfying. You won’t miss sweetening at all.
You can do the same with barley.
@billyboyyy. What makes you think porridge is healthy? The advertising on the packaging? Its a processed grain which spikes your insulin levels through the roof. If your primary aim is to lose weight then having a high insulin level is going to make losing weight real hard.
If you must have porridge then try adding low sugar high fat yogurt. Whole fruit. Anything from the berry family. Nuts like almonds + yogurt would be good.
Porridge is a recipe not an ingredient so it depends on how you make it. I believe it’s the ingredients found in instant oatmeal that may cause insulin levels to spike. Most oatmeal varieties, such as steel cut or old-fashioned oats, do not significantly elevate blood-glucose levels. I use steel cut oats sometimes but it takes a while to prepare (the old-fashioned way stirring in a saucepan).
LA Chubster, I’d never considered savoury oats, that is interesting! I agree with you, steel cut oats have a better, chewier flavour.
I agree with thin atlas that – old fashioned rolled oats/oatmeal is good for you. It is even mentioned in Mosley’s first book as a good breakfast on a FD! Quick oats or instant oats; however, are the opposite. Don’t have a link, but old fashioned oatmeal is also recommended as an excellent food to maintain your “gut” bacterial culture. Seems it has the right kind of carbs that don’t get digested quickly so make it to your small/large intestine where it works better than probiotic cultures to improve your gut culture.
I tend to put blackberries in my oatmeal (one of the lower GI fruits) or fry them up in coconut oil & have with FF unsweetened Greek yogurt.
3 Feb 17
Back again after 18months. Lost 35 lbs by June 2015 After which I returned to my old ways due to bereavement and many social events. I completely lost the plot.
Anyway I’m back again and intend to be a good girl. Weighed in January 17th 2017 and today I have lost 6lbs. Not bad. Must keep it up.
Nice to see others on forum are doing well.
See you next week .😊
19 Mar 17
I was diagnosed with “Metabolic Syndrome” about 10 years ago.
It has taken me awhile to see why I could not maintain the meal plan that I was put on by a doctor here in Canada. His plan was an every day “Fast” which was far too rigorous for my to maintain on an every day basis. And i eventually gave up and gained all the weight that I had lost and then some more that I had not previously had. Very discouraging!
I did try the Fast Diet about 3 years ago. To my delight it was not nearly as effort full as this previous diet. I lost the weight I wanted. Then life interfered and I gave up entirely. And I gave up. I now realize that I can choose to start and day that I want to. Because sometimes life IS A Struggle. And then it is OK to not Fast On that day. Just push my “RESTART” button, and try again on another day, sooner than later. Thanks for the support.
28 Apr 17
I am surprised bu the fact that honey has the same effect ( calories wise) as sugar 🙁 I thought that being a healthier option it was better
Raw honey is a healthier option (nutrients, enzymes, anti-bacterial, anti-fungal) but the main ingredient is still sugar. Processed honey (pasteurized) or raw honey used for cooking loses the beneficial properties IAC – believe the cut off is 110 degrees C but don’t quote me on that. There is research ongoing as to what effects raw honey has on gut bacteria, insulin, etc. I have been told that raw honey does not have the negative effects that processed honey does & may even be suitable for diabetics, but haven’t seen the research/don’t have access to it. Link is to a book detailing research I have been told about. Can’t vouch for it/haven’t read.
Honey is about 80% sugar with the rest being water content and trace elements. The 80% is roughly 38% fructose, 31% glucose, 9% sucrose (glucose + fructose joined together) plus other saccharides. I think the health benefits of honey have been way over sold.
One of the issues is the difference between processed & raw honey. Processed honey, or honey used for cooking/baking, is no better than sugar. Raw honey is a different kettle of fish, but the “jury is likely still out”. IAC, I’d take raw honey over sugar (processed sweetener) any day. Raw honey contains Anti-oxidants, vitamins, enzymes, anti-fungal/bacterial compounds, etc. That said, verifying source is important.
Best to get hold of some basic research & make your own decision. Likely not very many, if any, large commercial interests pushing honey research so hopefully what is being done is objective/non biased!
I should add – I use raw honey purchased from local a bee keeper. The flavour of that honey is light years ahead/nothing like the stuff you get in stores.
Well I understand that that manuka honey is good for treating wound infection… But I wouldn’t necessarily eat it 😁
Isn’t the key point that we need to reduce consumption of sugar, in any form? If you switch to honey, but still over-consume, aren’t you just kidding yourself it’s the ‘healthy’ option?
Really depends on what your primary objective is with regards honey. If its losing weight I dare say its not going to be doing you any favours. The anti fungal/bacterial properties stems from the fact that honey is just sugar!! Id be trying to find unbiased information on honey from reputable scientific journals. Any other information will just be propaganda. Each to their own though.
Well I don’t like honey anyway…it’s too sickly sweet for me!
28 May 17
Thank you to Clare for designing this poster so clearly; it is not a simple task👍. I have now dropped from 85kg to 58/59kgs using the no sugar & in recent months the 5:2. It is an absolute delight to have lost the muffin top & my blood pressure has finally dropped consistently for 4 weeks at any time of the day. I commenced this journey in January 2016 & was assured by the GP to keep going & just wait & see if the 5:2 had the desired effect on my blood pressure. I am so grateful to my GP because my friends & gym workers were begging me to put more weight on. I have even had complaints to management at work.
I still weigh more than I did in my 20’s & I vividly recall my peer group judging me as a big girl. I never dieted !
I feel like a supermodel when I squeeze the wrinkly skin flaps into winter clothes, now 😃 .
I am now on a mission to keep this weight & try to cut down my blood pressure medication- not an easy task but the 5:2 gives me hope.
29 May 17
I have been able to remove sugar from coffee and tea and reduce the drinking of sugar soda drinks like Coke products. I love pasta but I am gluten sensitive so I rarely eat pasta dishes. My main source of sugar is milk, yogurt, and ice cream. I will eat occasionally a sweet muffin and biscuit. I feel better but nothing happens to my weight. I believe I have always had a very slow metabolism because what causes others to shed pound eating 1500 calories per day, does nothing for me.
15 Jan 18
coming from a dental perspective.
It’s extremely hard to exclude all sugar from your diet, food companies have made sure of that. However…we say keep sugars to meal times only and sugar free at all other times.
Sugar in at Breakfast, lunch and tea.
Any sweets, chocolates etc to consume all at once preferably at meal times. Don’t spread out during the day.
Fruit is good for you but keep them to meal times only.
My dear departed Pop always had a toothbrush in his pocket and would brush assidiously after eating or drinking anything.
As far as “food companies” I totally agree with you which is why one of my dreams/hopes/desires is that prepared foods never enter my house again. I’ve even taken to the joys of making my own yogurts! Cheese is really the only place that I make an exception. But that’s life in France for you. We have an incredible history with all manner of milk product 🙂
Fruit sugar needs the fruit fiber. So eating a piece of fruit is much better for us than drinking say a fruit juice. There was a big fad a few years ago with juicers and frankly I see that as a poor use of veg and fruit.
Ok! Good to read the new stuff that Dr Mosley offers us ! I might also recommend James Wong the UK botanist that looks into differences in fruit, staples like rice and beans, vegetables and the different ways of cooking something. His book “How To Eat Better” (2017)has many many tips/recipes/nuggets of scientific fact regarding diet and cooking that is useful information. I have really integrated alot of his findings in my cooking.
Best to you all in this New Year !
6 Feb 18
Just came across Dr M’s graph – good. Since being on 5:2 have become aware of hidden sugars but got caught out last month – for convenience I bought a jar of crushed garlic and discovered it has added SUGAR !! why put sugar in garlic ?? I was so annoyed I binned it.
4 Sep 18
I found that eating a boiled egg for breakfast, followed by just two ‘baby’ plum tomatoes, or two cherry tomatoes, or half a salad tomato, or one apple, kept me hunger-free until lunch-time. The fruit to finish just seemed to make me feel full. I was surprised not to have cravings for toast. Toast acts in a way, as a refined product even if it’s wholemeal, because the basis of it is highly refined grain particles, so the GI is still high, and commercially made bread often contains added sugar. Dark rye grainy Pumpernickel bread, with its slightly vinegary flavour, is lower on the GI scale…but possibly quite heavy in carbohydrate and calories.
29 Oct 18
What about the red wine?
2 Nov 18
Wine is made from the fermentation of sugar of ripened fruit. The grapes are crushed to release the juice and the skins and juice are fermented together to give red wine its colour and flavour (tannins). White wine only uses the grape juice. Either way, it’s the alcoholic juice that eventually gets bottled and drunk.
In northern Europe, sugar may also be added to make wines more full-bodied (higher in alcohol) by feeding the fermentation yeasts that convert the juice to alcohol. The wine might not contain much sugar by the time it is ready to drink, but the alcohol affects the liver and insulin and interferes with the body’s management of blood sugar levels.
If having a glass of wine, it should be drunk with food, slowly. Apparently it’s better to eat some carbohydrates first, to help stabilize blood sugar levels if drinking alcohol, but the blood sugar diet is about consuming low amounts of carbohydrates.
Fortified wines are made from unfermented and fermented sugar. Cocktails can contain lots of sugar.
The advice online is that alcohol can raise blood sugar levels, but can also decrease blood sugar levels so that you have low blood sugar…. not ideal.
Chocolate – I’ve gone from eating 70% dark chocolate to 85%, and now 90% cocoa solids chocolate (and 7g sugar/100g bar). It’s too ‘earthy’ to eat much in one go, and the sweet taste is now more obvious to me than when I first tried it. A square or two grated onto dessert goes a long way.
Unfortunately I still sometimes buy horribly sweet candy bars when I’m in supermarket cafes. The cakes there are hideously sweet too, but I can usually resist those as they’re more expensive than sweety chocolate.
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