Restart Day June 15th 2016

This topic contains 116 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by mama2two 8 years ago.

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Kcaun4

10:57 pm
14 Jun 16
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Hello! I am starting my version of the FD again in earnest tomorrow the 15th. My goal is to lose a little under 30% of my current weight in 6-10 months. The end date is arbitrary as it may take much more time.

This is why I am posting:
– It is most useful for me to treat weight loss as a difficult problem to be solved so I am adding this forum to my bag of tools. I need a community of like minded people because in RL there are too many outings, restaurants, wine tastings and the like mixed in with too few hikes and walks.

– I did this over a year ago and made it to more than half the goal, hit a long plateau and then hit the holidays. I found it very hard to start up again after more than a 2 week or longer hiatus so I am determined to not stop again. I managed to gain back most of what I lost but not all of it.

– I finally accept that losing weight is the easy part and keeping it off is the difficult part so dieting of some kind is a permanent, lifelong condition. I have decided to chalk it up to some type of permanent gut/brain injury or chronic disorder until I kind find a more plausible, proven explanation.

– I have found that any diet works for me in the short term so I intend to rotate them as necessary. I am starting off with the alternate day diet instead of the actual 5:2 version. The idea is the same but the frequency is greater. Once I have a week or two done, I find I have a greatly reduced appetite on the ‘feast’ days and usually stick with LCHF which is my preferred way of eating. At that point, if I can stick to eating only when actually hungry everything rolls along quite easily if slowly. Food as celebration, reward, etc. is a real sticking point.

– Although I agree that exercise to burn calories doesn’t appear to be useful, I do find exercise to actually be useful. I do not know why that is. It may be hormonal, it may be intermittent fasting, it may be psychological but it works for me. I find exercising first thing in the morning after fasting overnight works best although that does not always fit in the schedule.

– I hope that posting results and reading other people’s posts on a regular basis will help me stick to this especially towards the end of the year when those dreaded winter months and holidays roll in.

mama2two

3:46 pm
15 Jun 16
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Hi Kcaun,

I’m also starting today & am glad to know there is someone else beginning the journey today also. I am dedicated to doing 5:2, but am considering doing 4:3. I’ve also done many different diets over the years with varying success. I have hypothyroid & insulin resistance issues, so I need to be 100% dedicated in order to see results. For me, LCHF is a necessity, but even that is very, very slow. I’m also learning that nighttime eating kills my results, even if it is healthy & w/i diet parameters, so I’m really working on not eating after 6pm.

I have some challenges that I need to deal with. I have 2 small sons who are constantly hungry, so I’m constantly making them food. I feel like I’m in the kitchen every hour or two. Then my husband comes home from work late & I need to make him food. My family is very dedicated to eating whole organic food, so food prep takes a bit extra time (no quick packages) & sometimes I feel like I live in the kitchen! When I’m a couple weeks into a diet, this doesn’t bother me, but it sure makes it hard to get past those first challenging days.

As for exercise, unfortunately that’s not really an option for me, other than walking & yoga due to a chronic hip injury. I know this plays a role in my slow weightloss progress.

I’m the same way in regards to regaining weight & any hiatus that lasts longer than a few days turns into a 3 month hiatus (with the LCHF). That’s why I’m hoping the 5:2 will help. I’m hoping that even if I mess up on my LCHF feeding days, then I’ll have something else supporting weight maintenance so I don’t just let the weight creep back.

Good luck!

Kcaun4

2:46 am
16 Jun 16
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Hi mama2two,

You have quite the challenges so good luck to you too!

I am eating lots of blueberries today because I prefer extreme dieting to well rounded meals. It is also blueberry season and that doesn’t last very long. I am not fond of most fruits but I do love blueberries, persimmons and the cuties oranges. Luckily they are all seasonal so it is a month and they are done.

I didn’t start eating until late today and I considered just water fasting. I have been skimming Jason Fung’s book The Obesity Code and he is fond of actual fasting to lower insulin and fix insulin resistance. He has good things to say about the FastDiet’s intermittent fasting versus daily calorie restriction.

I may give that a try as it seemed easy enough and I am looking for a way to get past the inevitable plateau. I may also try the FatFast, 1K calories at 90% fat to get past that. Otherwise, it will be yet another slow U-Turn.

mama2two

5:52 pm
16 Jun 16
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Hi Kcaun,

Congrats on a good first day! Thanks for the book suggestion, I’ll check it out. I really enjoy reading books on health & wellness. I’ve done the FatFast several times. Contrary to what some say, I really believe that it is healthy for the long term. It is called Nutritional Ketosis & is discussed in the book by Phinney & Volek “The Art & Science of Low Carbohydrate Living.” Peter Atilla’s website The Eating Academy has quite a bit of science & experiments on living w/i the Nutritional Ketosis range (about 1-3mm Blood Ketones). You might enjoy reading some of that.

For now I’m going to focus on fasting & not eating after 6pm as my primary goal. Making those things a lifestyle change will really make me feel successful… even if weightloss is minimal (which I hope it’s not!). I’ll be tinkering with keeping my carbs in the 20-40 range (less is always more when it comes to weight loss) but I don’t want to take on too much at first, especially with birthdays & holidays this summer. Usually, I go crazy strict with everything in an effort to get the ball rolling, but then I fade out in a couple months & then throw out the towel with everything. If I space out my goals, hopefully they’ll enter the lifestyle zone rather than the diet zone.

Anyways, off to finish gifts for my little one’s birthday tomorrow! Hope you have a great day!

Kcaun4

5:20 pm
17 Jun 16
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You are reading what I am reading or trying to read. Happy Bday to the little tot!

I have to admit I have not been able to get through the Phinney/Volek books yet. I will give them another go. One of these days I will plow through Attia’s cholesterol series.

Every now and again I read the Hyperlipid blog. I like Peter’s description of his meals: cream, dark chocolate, lots of eggs. It is more technical than I am but it is still interesting to read.

The last go around I found that weight loss was easier in the early days. It became stuck around the -20% mark so I am interested to find out more about the set point.

It loss does not plateau then I can probably stick to it. It is too discouraging to have it stop and then bounce back begins.

mama2two

6:35 pm
17 Jun 16
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ya, I hear you about the plateau killing the motivation. That’s when I usually slack off from discouragement. Oddly, the opposite has the same effect on me also. when I’m losing weight really easily, I get over-confident & think how easy it is & start to slack off thinking I’ll hit my goal in no time… But then I never get back on track. Its that first week that is the hardest, so I keep putting off my start date till tomorrow, & then another tomorrow. That’s why I’m glad I’m in the middle of my 1st week. Just gotta keep truckin.

I had my first fast day yesterday & had no food after 6pm. Yay!!! About 8 carbs. I must say it was a challenge! I’ll need to plan my food better for next fast, something with a lot of bulk to make me feel full. Like maybe I big salad. The accountability with you really helped a lot. I knew I’d be posting today & knew this support system would only work if I really put in the effort. So thank you so much for starting this thread!

Kcaun4

9:31 pm
18 Jun 16
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Congratulations on your start! 8 carbs is really a challenge. I have to go up in carbs on fast days so I am impressed that you can do that. I wish I could knock off eating early as you do but I am such a night owl that it is easier to skip early meals.

I am out of town for a couple of days so I have to switch around my schedule. Social events are the start of the slippery slope for me so I have to get back in the swing of things on Tuesday or I will be at the bottom of that slope soon.

I am going to have inertia work for me in the opposite direction. Once I have a fasting day done, I am not that excited to begin eating regularly. If it is comfortable, I will go ahead and do consecutive fast days.

Nice asparagus (skinny and tender) are available now and I can pan cook them and eat them without dressing. There are nice tomatoes and cucumbers available after that but I need to sweeten them up with sucralose which is quite a bad habit.

There were some nice watermelon and french breakfast radishes available for a time but they have, sadly, disappeared.

mama2two

2:47 pm
19 Jun 16
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Hope you’re enjoying your weekend! The last 2 days were full of indulgence while celebrating the birthday & fathers day. We did our fathers day festivities yesterday, so today I will be needing to fast after the last 2 days. On Friday I stuck to my 6pm no food goal, so even though I had cake I didn’t feel the guilt & sense of failure that I normally do if I mess up on a diet. That’s pretty cool, since that sense of failure usually makes me go off the band wagon. Yesterday didn’t go so well. We didn’t eat dinner till 9:30 & had cake at 10:30. So that’s a bummer, but today I’ll be back on the 6pm goal. We stay up till 11 most nights & if I don’t get in the 6pm habit I will end up nibbling throughout the night & that just makes it impossible to lose weight.

My plan is to eat a huge arugula, romaine & butter lettuce salad w/ some red bells, cucumbers, baked chicken & a little oil & vinegar around 5:30 tonight. I promised my son that we would make a vegetable soup together today, so maybe I’ll save some of my calories for a small bowl of that.

Tomatoes & cucs are a great pair. I like to toss them with feta cheese & some olive oil. If that sounds good to you, maybe you could try that instead of the sucralose.

I checked out the hyperlipid blog. Man, that is a tough read. Very technical!

Kcaun4

8:07 pm
21 Jun 16
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I understand your days of indulgence! After 2 of my own I am back to a fast day starting with black coffee and perhaps ending with some decaf tea.

I think it was the ice cream that did it. That is something I have maybe once a year and it was twice yesterday. It was well worth it. The good thing is that it was coupled with lots of exercise so I actually feel fine and not like a bump on a log.

Your salad sounds great and I will try the feta cheese tomorrow on my regular LCHF day. I never had a sweet tooth until a few years ago and I wish I could pull it out.

mama2two

3:28 pm
22 Jun 16
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How’d your fast day go yesterday? I fasted on Mon & it went great. I felt really good Tues morning, which is how I always feel after a fast. I was going to do another yesterday & then caved after making my boys some yummy food that I shouldn’t have tasted. The bummer is I broke the fast at 7pm & then felt like I wasted a feeding day barely eating, so then I went & ‘nibbled’ on random stuff till bed time around 11pm. So, I basically messed up my 6pm goal by messing up my fasting goal. Today I’m fasting again. I’m finding the 6pm goal more challenging than the fast days. I know its a habit thing, not a hunger thing, but its a habit that I need to break, it’ll go so far in my health & weight in the long run. But I’m pleased that this will be my 3rd fast in my 1st week… not bad! Can’t wait till these things are second nature, just what I ‘do’.

I’m very impressed that you only have ice cream a couple times a year. That is very motivational for me.

Kcaun4

5:24 pm
22 Jun 16
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Thank you for asking, it went just fine. It was close to being an actual fast day as I had a few berries and some pickles with a single bite of cheese. I was fairly hungry in the morning probably due to the ice cream and assorted high carb foods from the two previous days. I am pleased that I could get right back into the routine as I had planned and not let it linger long into the week.

I should have said that I rarely have actual ice cream but I do have low carb (maybe it is low carb, maybe it’s a joke) ice cream on a stick during the hottest days of summer. I manage to stay away from most processed foods but there a few things that I will not give up. Actual ice cream was a real treat.

Today was supposed to be a regular LCHF day but I now have lunch out so it will definitely not be that regular.

I think your 6 pm goal would be hard for me as well. I can skip breakfast quite easily since I do not feel like eating first thing in the morning and then have a light lunch. I do tend to nibble in the evening rather than have everything at dinner.

It is very, very difficult watching others eat either in person or even in print or on TV! It is like yawning for me and I want to join in. I have to go and take a walk or get busy elsewhere.

Good luck today!

mama2two

2:09 am
24 Jun 16
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hey! I tried posting 2x today & neither showed 🙁 Anyways, just want to congratulate both of us on making it through the 1st week! Have a good night!

Kcaun4

9:16 am
24 Jun 16
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Thank you, it was a pretty good week. I am happy that it was not too difficult to switch between fast days and days that ended up being too much on the feast side.

Kcaun4

12:44 am
26 Jun 16
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There was breakfast out and about today due to an early morning start. Instead of rearranging the schedule I just kept it lighter and will treat the rest of the day as a FD. Usually, a change in schedule means the beginning of a slippery slope so I am trying something different which is to hop back onto the plan as soon as possible.

I still love the occasional corned beef hash!

mama2two

1:57 pm
27 Jun 16
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Hi! How’s it going? I’m doing ok. I haven’t had my fasts yet this week. I had planned on fasting Friday & Sunday & Monday. For some reason, I didn’t have the right mental attitude about it, so I kept pushing them out. Now I have 2 fasts to do in 3 days time. I don’t really like the corner I got myself into, so I need to be a little more firm with myself next week. Today I have blood work, so it’s a fast day for sure. The good news is my husband decided to stop eating at 7pm every night to support me. That is huge since my biggest temptation with food is at night. Yesterday we stopped eating at 3pm because we were too busy to get home in time for dinner. I lost a whole pound! I can see this fasting/time limit combo is really great & if I made good choices on eating days I’d probably lose weight pretty steadily. The trouble I’m having is I’m eating too much luxury food these days, so I’m not moving forward as fast as I probably could. At least I’m not gaining, which is what I would normally be doing with these food choices.

So, I’ve got a question for you. You mentioned that you stuck with this for quite some time before the holidays derailed you. Did there come a point where you didn’t think twice about fasting days or even looked forward to them? For me, right now, I feel really good at the end of a fast & look forward to it the following day… but by the time the next one hits I feel like it’s a huge sacrifice. Did you ever feel that way & did it eventually go away?

Kcaun4

9:54 pm
27 Jun 16
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Hello out there. Nice to have such a supportive hubbie, good for him.

From my experience, even having a single FD (or a partial day) in a week kept me going. It was the slippery slope of a very long plateau and just giving up entirely that was the problem. Prior to that, I could have kept at that weight permanently. If I had been satisfied at that point, perhaps I could have kept it there.

After several months of 2/week FDs, eating during normal days wasn’t that interesting. FDs feels quite nice and over-eating feels uncomfortable. After awhile, I was not eating very much on regular days either. Weight loss was slow but fairly steady.

I agree that the idea of missing out on something delicious or celebratory is a problem. I have found that the most enjoyable part of eating is the first few bites. After that, the enjoyment really goes away. If I can remember that then I am happy tasting things without finishing the entire thing.

I have been doing the alternate day FDs and that may be too much. Going out to eat is still an issue but I have a few weeks of peace and quiet and I am going to take advantage of that! Instead of doing the FD today, I am having a regular LCHF day and will push the FD out a day or two.

I imagine that maintaining weight loss is like quitting smoking. It may take several tries before it sticks. This go around I am looking for more information on resetting the set point. I know I can lose the weight but I need a strategy for keeping it off. That may be actual water fasting to reduce insulin levels to a very low level on a regular basis.

Good luck getting back to it!

mama2two

1:25 am
30 Jun 16
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Hi Kcaun 🙂 Thanks for all your advise & thoughts. You seem like you’re in a healthy place mentally regarding losing the weight. That’s definitely balancing for me right now. I tend to go through waves in most things in my life. Sometimes I’m hardcore about losing weight & can stick to the strictest eating plan. Then I go through a phase of taking it easy & enjoying life. I’m definitely struggling to get into the serious weightloss mental phase, but I’m certainly happy that this 2day/7pm thing is keeping me steady, at least when my mind gets motivated I won’t have extra weight to take off, I’ll be starting where I left off. Just can’t wait till the 2day/7pm becomes lifestyle… like washing the dishes after meals, I don’t like to do it, but I always do because it’s always easier to rinse immediately then to let it sit for a while… that’s what I hope for with the lifestyle, that it will become second nature to make my life easier in the long run.

I got caught up with the fasts this week. Mon & Wed. That was close!

Kcaun4

3:19 am
30 Jun 16
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Congratulations on getting in the days! I do think it gets much easier over time but there will be some hiccups along the way. Today was fairly difficult early on but it has eased up after some iced tea. I was hungry for most of the day and it was quite uncomfortable. Right now I am no longer hungry and I am very glad for that.

I began reading the Reddit/r/fasting forums and Jason Fung’s Intensive Dietary Management blog and that helped a bit. Some people have very serious fasting regimens!

I hope the next FD is easier. I didn’t get around to exercise – moderate walking – over the last few days so maybe that was part of the problem. I do remember that exercise in a fasted state was very useful so I need to get back to that.

Kcaun4

7:14 pm
30 Jun 16
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OK yikes! I tried yesterday’s FD as a partial water fast day from yesterday morning to today. It was still a little short of 24 hours and was a fairly miserable experience.

Part of the issue is forgetting to drink consistently when there are no meals. To try this again, I would need to set up plenty of drinks beforehand. Then again, maybe I will not try it again!

Kcaun4

12:11 am
2 Jul 16
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Trying what might have been a FD as a LCLPHF day instead. Low Carb Low Protein High Fat. Down a little less than 15% of the goal in a little over 2 weeks but I am sure it slows down from here.

mama2two

1:09 pm
2 Jul 16
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I’ve been reading Jason Fungs website too! I ordered his book & it arrived yesterday 🙂

I also started the ebook Eat Stop Eat by Brad Pilon. A good read so far, about intermittent fasting, but he puts too much emphasis on calories in/calories out & I think there’s more to it than that, like carbs/insulin, other hormones, etc.

Big congrats to the full fast!!! I have found the 1st day is super hard for a full fast, the 2nd is kinda of hard & every day beyond that is pretty easy. I read a lot of Valter Longo’s work/studies on 5 day fasting & the benefit to the immune system & specifically the stem cell growth of white blood cells. Because of some health issues, I did a 5 day fast at the beginning of March, another 5 day at the beginning of April & a 9 day at the beginning of May. Great news- my enlarged organ shrank back to normal size! The 1st day was very, very hard, 2nd day was ok, every day after was easy. The 1st day is hard because you’re switching to ketone energy & there’s a transition where you’re low on energy & moody… & maybe it’s part mental. Maybe that’s why this 5:2 fasting program is tough for me, because I’m always doing day 1. If I ate ketogenic, it might not be a problem, but I’ve never tried combining the two. I lost quite a bit of weight, but gained it all back over the course of the month, wish I would’ve known about 5:2, I’m sure that would’ve kept me from regaining.

15% is huge!!! That’s awesome! I haven’t lost much, but as I’ve mentioned in my posts I’ve been eating way too indulgently. This weekend is a big holiday in America, but after this weekend I have 4 months with nothing to celebrate & can really focus on losing this weight. I’m looking forward to it!

Kcaun4

12:52 am
4 Jul 16
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I’m in the US as well and doing a very short outdoor party visit today and that will be it. I was going to avoid it but didn’t quite make it but still intend to treat it as a FD since it is not really a sit down meal.

I have decided that holidays will be very limited or nonexistent this year. It is a pain but it is just a year so well worth it. I think it was Fung who said that 60% of weight gain in the US is during the Xmas and New Year season.

I am amazed at people who can do multiple day water fasts. I might try it again but that one day was quite hard so it is good to know that it gets much easier.

I have Pilon’s book and have read the leangains site but I do not get as much from the bodybuilding style of eating since it is more extreme (and disciplined) than I am. I am interested in Longo’s concern over too much protein. It is good that I am fond of butter and olive oil but I do like steaks and salami.

I am fairly sure that weight loss will slow drastically now to a crawl as it usually does.

bigbooty

1:54 am
4 Jul 16
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Kcaun4,

I used to water fast for 2 consecutive days as part of my 5:2 diet. I now do 6:1 as I have reached my goal weight but still want to maintain the benefits of fasting.

Like anything in life you cant expect to do a water fast and its just going to be easy. You have to work at it and it does eventually become easy. Your liver is a two way street, it stores excess energy as fat but it also retrieves stored fat for energy. Its this second aspect of liver function that is rarely used, and like any bodily function, if it doesn’t get used very often its going to be very inefficient. Try and stick with it for a month, it gets easier after about a month as your liver starts to work better. I’m now 10 months in and the last two months when doing my water fast has become ridiculously easy. Im able to flip over to ketones very easily.

Initially I was taking a full 48 hours to go into ketosis (measured with a keto meter), I now enter ketosis after 24 hours. No headaches now, they tend to go away after about a month as your liver gets good at processing fats for energy and your brain gets used to using ketones as its major energy source instead of glucose.

Take a good vitamin B supplement as it will help with liver function.

mama2two

2:44 am
4 Jul 16
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I just finished “The Obesity Code” from Jason Fung. I’m re-reading it now. I love reading & have quite a collection of health & wellness books, but this one really spoke to me. He talks about a ‘set weight’ in the body & how it can really derail dieting results. Awesome book, highly recommend it. Let me know if you end up reading it, I’d love to hear your take on it. Happy 4th!

bigbooty

2:58 am
4 Jul 16
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Yes Ive read the book as well. Makes perfect sense to me. Eating well (no simple carbs and sugars) lowers the glucose spikes which prevents fat storage. Fasting then lowers your basal glucose level which aides in fat burning. Your insulin level acts as your set weight point. I monitor my blood glucose. If its about 4.5mmol/L I tend to slowly lose weight. If its 5.5-6.0 I tend to gain weight. Of late Ive been trying to eat more than I really want to as Ive slowly been edging downward with my weight. The BG had consistently been around 4.5. The last week its been around 6.0 and Ive slowly put on some weight. I try and stay around 72kg which I think is just right for me. BMI = 22.9

Kcaun4

8:45 pm
4 Jul 16
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I was reading some posts from itsthewoo about the Fung fasting idea. Interesting.

I did a FD yesterday and ate very little, wasn’t very hungry and am still not very hungry today. That seems to work for me. A little grazing during the day with lots of liquids.

I am rereading Krista Varady’s alternate day fasting book. I read it before and didn’t think much of it but it may work better for me now that I have tried the 5:2 and it wasn’t too difficult.

Kcaun4

5:28 am
7 Jul 16
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So far, so good! I definitely feel hungry on FDs but it isn’t too bad and passes fairly quickly. It is gone pretty much by the early evening so the biggest problem is late morning (not much of a breakfast eater anyway) and afternoon.

Thank goodness for Bigelow and Tazo teas. Hot in the winter and iced in the summer. I did try Hansen’s no sugar soda but they made me ravenously hungry.

I am also becoming pickier about what I eat on the alternate days which is all to the good. I do not want to have to give up eating out and cooking in altogether because that really would not last long.

I hope everyone else is doing well.

mama2two

1:05 pm
7 Jul 16
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Doing well out here too! Have been totally committed to no food after 7pm, with the last few days stopping by 4. I’ve also been trying to avoid snacking at all between meals. That has been eye opening. Fung’s book made me want to throw out the snack. I have found that when I snack, I am not really truly hungry at mealtime, which makes me wonder how many dinners I ate without hunger. That’s why I had a few days where I stopped eating at 4- I was so hungry that I thought surely a small snack won’t ruin my appetite, but then found that I wasn’t truly hungry at dinnertime. Even the fact that I recognized this shows I’m getting to know my body better.

As for the FD, well I’ve been doing it differently & am not sure if it is slowing things down or not. I’ve been going 24 hrs w/o food or with 1 small snack (200ish cals). But I’ve been going from 2pm Tues to 2pm Wed or something like that & got 3 in last week. I got the idea from some other fasting protocols. I’ll probably do this for a couple more weeks while I’m cementing in the habits of no snacking & no food after 7pm. The good news is the 7pm is starting to come natural to me now, no mental struggle.

I’m losing weight, but very slowly. Of course, for me weight loss has always been very slow, so this isn’t too surprising. I know I could make some tweaks to speed up the process, but I’m really trying to make sustainable changes. I’m also making good food choices when I do eat, so hopefully that helps.

Hope y’all have a good day!

Kcaun4

8:50 pm
8 Jul 16
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It’s great that you are meeting your stop eating at night goal! Congratulations. I agree that finding hunger again and finding it to be fairly benign is a very good thing.

I have been rereading the Biggest Loser weight regain articles. They really do show that weight loss/gain is not a simple matter and that we all need a diet regimen that we can maintain for life. They lose weight quickly through incredible dedication and willpower and then gradually gain it back as their resting metabolic rate drops to below where it would have been without dieting.

I am not sure how straight forward or true that theory is but it is interesting.

I have been doing the alternate day modified fast so I go 30+ hours on FDs. It varies because my schedule varies and I need to keep it flexible.

The one day I did the water fast was enough for me, we do not get along. Oddly, if I know I can eat 500 calories on the FD I end up eating practically nothing anyway. Yesterday I had a few pickles and that was enough to make the day pretty easy.

I am ok with weight loss being slow as long as I can keep it permanent. If a longer, slower, less stressful process increases the odds of permanence then slow it is! Then again, I don’t think I have much choice in the matter. 🙂

mama2two

10:32 pm
8 Jul 16
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That’s exactly what I read in The Obesity Code. Fung explained the basal metabolic rate lowers as your body’s effort to keep your weight steady.. he called it the “set weight”. He referenced some interesting studies & ultimately explained that the only way to lower your “set weight” is by lowering the insulin. He said changing the foods that cause insulin peaks helps (by lowering carbs, glucose), but that the only way to change the insulin range is by fasting, cutting snacks, etc, basically anything that gives your body the chance to be food-free, whether for a couple hours (in the form of skipping snacks) or for days (by long fasts). There, now I’ve given you all the cliff-notes! haha 🙂 Anyways, that was a huge mind-set changer for me. Now I know why I’ve always gained it back, my body’s “set weight” is out of whack. So, like you, rather than just trying to lose weight, I’m more focused on re-setting my “set weight” to a healthier number, which will help shed the pounds, but more importantly keep me at a lower size.

Kcaun4

10:51 pm
9 Jul 16
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I’m on a FD today, had a cup of coffee and some blueberries and I feel full. My schedule gets interrupted by restaurant meals next week so I will do some meal-skipping instead of regular FDs on consecutive days and see how that works out.

Still shy of 20% of the weight I want to lose but hopefully will hit that soon. As long as the needle is moving in the right direction, even if it is slow, that is encouraging.

I have been reading about the NUSI/Hall study on whether there is a metabolic advantage to a keto diet. Interesting controversy and I am glad that there are any studies on this subject.

mama2two

3:39 pm
11 Jul 16
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wow, you’ve been doing so great! nearly 20% to go is awesome! I’ve been plateauing, but I am in my pms zone & historically gain a solid 5 lbs during this time, so maintaining is really good. I need to focus on that & try not to get frustrated. I’ve got a FD today & intend to make it a full water fast. I am tempted to make it a longer one. I’ll check out the NUSI/Hall study. Thanks for the suggestion. Information is really motivating for me. Have a great day!

Kcaun4

7:48 pm
11 Jul 16
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Thanks, it is the easy and fast part of losing which is now slowing to a crawl. I am collecting ideas for maintenance since I suspect I could be stair stepping down to my goal weight for many (many!) months or even years.

Varady’s long term weight maintenance idea is to maintain the alternate day pattern but increase the calories by 2x’s to 1,000. This is a different idea from the FastDiet which reduces the days themselves (but maintains the same 400-500 calorie count) to 1 a week or even less. I like the FastDiet idea better 🙂 as I wonder how realistic it is to have alternate 1000 calorie days like that in perpetuity.

Another idea is to lose 10% and then plateau for 6 months and repeat that until you get to the goal. The idea is to lower the set point by losing weight in stages. Fung’s idea is to fix insulin resistance with regular periods of low insulin through fasting in 24-36 hour bouts or even longer.

Good luck on water fasting. I didn’t like it but I am ok with eating 200 calories or thereabouts. I can go more than 30 hours on this but not 36. I haven’t been able to consistently do low carb on the regular days yet. I am figuring out my limitations!

Kcaun4

7:45 pm
13 Jul 16
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One month tomorrow! So far, not bad but some juggling required. I have settled in with ADF as it is the most comfortable and offers the most versatility on the off days. I didn’t think I could do it and was going to do the 5:2 but ADF has not been bad.

I am going to try and hike on a FD this week so I will see how that goes. I have found in the past that I enjoy hiking on an empty stomach but I haven’t been hiking much this past year so this will be interesting. Hiking is so much easier when lighter.

I like this WOE since it focuses solely on calories and not on the food itself. Since I enjoy going out and cooking in this is the most versatile for me. So far I have lost weight (slowly but steadily) having had ice cream, pie and pizza. I find that regular days are more self-regulating now than in the beginning.

I have found in the past that beyond 6 months it becomes more difficult so I would like to lose most of what I need to in the next 5 months. I think this is a plausible way to eat for life but I will have to see how things stand by Christmas whose eating traditions I plan on ignoring this year!

Kcaun4

6:25 pm
14 Jul 16
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One month in and starting to read the 8-Week Blood Sugar Diet. I really appreciate MM’s writing style which makes a dry subject interesting to read.

Interestingly, on the ADF diet, I have found that I am expanding, not contracting, my menu. I do not eat as much but I eat a much greater variety of foods. This week I am adding in baby carrots and peaches. Carrots on the FDs and peaches on regular days. I added edamame on FDs, they are 1/3rd fat which was unexpected.

mama2two

1:07 am
15 Jul 16
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Well, I think we both deserve some big congrats for getting through the 1st month! For me, I haven’t hit that point where I feel like I’ve solidified this into habit yet. Looking forward to that moment! But I have made some huge changes so hopefully by the 2 month mark (or sooner) I will feel the ‘lifestyle’ change.

The fast days are up & down. Some days I totally feel it, others I really don’t. I’ve been able to get in 3 FD for 3 weeks & 2 FD on 1 of the weeks. But quite of few of them I was trudging through because of mental commitment. Today I’m doing another full fast & feel totally fine, Monday was totally fine also, but I intended to do a FD on Wed which was miserable & I threw in the towel around dinner time. If I can learn to identify the ‘fine’ days & dedicate to them, this will be an easy lifestyle to sustain. It’s just too hard to trudge through it if it’s not smooth feeling.

The no-food-after 7pm is still an adjustment. I’ve been successful most of the time, but still have a couple nights here & there where I give in to the nibble… not out of hunger, but out of association between relaxing & nibbling. I don’t count my wine & have no desire to give up that pleasure!

The no-snacks is still in the baby stages, I’ve been mostly successful but it’ll be a while before that becomes lifestyle.

All in all, I feel that these are really good & healthful changes & will be sustainable once they become normal habitual behavior. I have confidence that they’ll inch me toward my goal & will help me maintain once I reach that goal. I love that I can still enjoy whatever foods I like. LCHF has been the only way for me to not gain weight for the past 8 years (not necessarily lose, I always plateau way before my healthy goal weight). Then life happens (birthdays, holidays, etc) & I “cheat” & then fall off the bandwagon because I want to enjoy forbidden foods. What I love about this program I’m on is I can enjoy things that I haven’t had in so long. Like beans have always been too high in carb for me to allow myself, but this past month I’ve been allowing myself to eat whatever I want, mostly healthy but I’ve also enjoyed some decadent treats. It’s just nice to eat again. I haven’t eaten this freely in so long, & I’m still losing weight! Slowly yes & I know that if I was stricter on my feeding days things might speed up, but I’m really enjoying this freedom.

Anyways, hats off to us!

Kcaun4

4:49 am
15 Jul 16
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Way to go mama2two! A month down is no small thing.

I like how we are both doing our individualized versions of the fast diet and experimenting with different things as we go. I am keeping things as flexible as possible while sticking to the ADF <500 (usually <200 for some reason) plan as much as possible.

So far so good but I am setting up plans for when the schedule has hiccups as it will for a few weeks. It would be much easier staying on a rigid schedule but things are just not working out like that.

I am not sure about the MM’s blood sugar diet, 800 calories a day for 2 months of a Mediterranean style low carb diet to flush fat out of the liver and pancreas. I can imagine the results are very good for those who can get through it.

mama2two

3:07 pm
15 Jul 16
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I’ve been reading some info on the NUSI/hall study. Have you checked out Dr. Attila’s breakdown of it? http://eatingacademy.com/books-and-articles/good-science-bad-interpretation

I haven’t found the actual published study. Do you have a link? It seems there are a lot of unaccounted for variables, as there are in many studies. What I saw in the results on Attila’s page where favorable improvements on all diet types, but most in the Low Carb diet for thyroid markers, leptin markers & insulin sensitivity – those are very appealing to me as they indicate an overall improvement in the hormonal system. The urinary cortisol levels were lowest on the other 2 diets (Low Cal & low GI), but they were still within normal range on the Low Carb diet, so that doesn’t strike me as significant. Also, it appears that the Low Carb was 90gms carb, which is really high for me, not remotely close to getting me in ketosis, so it doesn’t measure any markers for ketosis effects. My other issue with the study is there was not a good rotation for the post-weight loss diets. I mean, if the weight-loss phase was followed with a Low Cal (translate High Carb), then once the subjects got to the Low Carb trial, they would have to go through the adaptation phase of efficiently accessing their fat stores, which certainly could have an effect on cortisol levels & other hormonal markers.

I really wish there were more studies on fasting. There seems to be a fair-ish amount of studies on intermittent fasting, but relatively few studies on full fasting. Valter Longo focused his attention on White Blood Cell count & immune system regeneration with 5 day fasts & that was very impressionable (30% increase in white blood stem cell activity). I wish they’d do studies on various fast lengths for autophagy (cell destruction, specifically regarding cancer cells). I’ve looked into ketosis for cancer (cancer only has the metabolic pathway to use glucose for energy, so cannot reproduce & grow under ketosis). I’ve also come across the suggestion that it is the state of ketosis that drives the benefits of full fasting… but no hard studies. If ketosis is the driving factor for autophagy, well that would be a heck of a lot easier than full fasting. It also appears that fasting prior to & during chemotherapy greatly increases the efficacy of the chemo, but also reduces the miserable side-effects, probably due to the White Blood Stem Cell regeneration. But what about fasting &/or ketogenic diet as an early cancer treatment option?

I feel like I’m in uncharted territory, sifting through all sorts of studies that don’t focus on the things that I want to know.

So, some history on me- my thyroid has been moderately enlarged for the past year, even with thyroid medication. They did a sonogram on it & found 2 tumors. They are currently too small for them to biopsy, so they are doing sonos every 6mo to monitor them. After the sono, holidays hit & I went on a 2 month sugar binge (sugar feeds cancer, didn’t know back then). Then, the 3 months preceding my 2nd sono I discovered Longo’s studies & did 5 day fasts at the beginning of the next 2 months & a 9 day on the 3rd month… I did not follow the fasts with a no-sugar keto diet (wish I would’ve). Then came my 2nd sono- it showed my thyroid went completely back to normal size (seriously cool), but that my tumors had a slight growth (still too small to biopsy). So, clearly my thyroid organ responded positively to the fasts, but the tumors didn’t… or, did they grow during my sugar binge & then reduce during the fasts to result in nearly the same size? No way to know. So, I have my next sono in 5 months. I’m seriously considering making a science experiment out of myself & resuming the 5 day fasts at the beginning of each month, following with 5:2 & a ketogenic diet during the rest of the month. Then my sono in November will answer all my questions regarding fasting, keto & autophagy (as well as insulin resistance) in my own body. It doesn’t sound fun at all. But modern cancer treatments don’t sound fun either. Sorry for going on & on, I guess I’m thinking out loud.

Hope you have a good day!

Kcaun4

3:23 am
18 Jul 16
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Here’s to more (and better) studies! You have also have some terrific will power. Longo said his fasts were not fun. I did the one day and haven’t tried it again.

I remember reading about chemo and fasts. I recall thinking about it as normal cells battening down the hatches during the fast while cancerous ones didn’t making them more susceptible to chemo.

I am trying to incorporate LCHF into the non-fast days. I begin the day well but end up not quite so well. Still, the weight is coming off and I am not terribly overboard on carbs.

I was having lots of trouble staying asleep before starting ADF but my sleep has improved quite a bit now. I am also starting to exercise more and did a hilly, 5-mile hike at the end of a FD. I did not find the experience any different than on a regular day so that was reassuring.

mama2two

3:59 pm
18 Jul 16
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Thanks, but I really don’t have that great of will power, just a desire to see these tumors disappear! I was going to start my science experiment & do a 5 day full fast a few days ago, got 1/2 way through day 3 & threw in the towel… not out of hunger (that was gone) nor out of discomfort (just a little light headedness), but out of annoyance! When I’m not fasting it sounds like a great idea, but after a few days of fasting it seems so extreme. I still think it’s a wise idea in relation to my tumors, but I think I might put it off another month. I think it would be more sensible to get these other changes in the ‘lifestyle’ zone before adding the longer fasts to my list.

I am implementing some adjustments to my program, though. I’m also trying to stick to a LCHF on non-fast days, it’ll probably speed up my weight loss & it’ll certainly help my insulin resistance & slow any tumor growth. Also, I’m going to experiment with putting my fast days together for 2 consecutive full fasts. I lost an impressive amount weight on the 2 days last week, so I want to keep that up. No matter what, I’ll be keeping the other changes I made last month.

Kcaun4

1:05 am
20 Jul 16
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Lousy week that has nothing to do with my diet which is fine and has become quite easy. A family member has been diagnosed with cancer so I am asking them to consider fasting as a therapy.

It makes me wonder if I should consider the longer term fasting idea as well since the ADF (I never eat the 500 calories anyway) is not bad. On top of everything, after FDs I really don’t feel particularly hungry anyway.

I feel pretty out of it today but I am glad that I started this diet.

mama2two

4:14 pm
20 Jul 16
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I’m so sorry to hear about your family member. Dr. Seyfreid wrote a book called ‘Cancer as a Metabolic Disease.” He’s been referenced to a lot & I’ve seen some interviews with him on youtube. His book is really expensive, so I haven’t been able to read it, not sure how finances are for you, but maybe you’ll have a chance to read it or find it in your library. I did buy ‘Tripping Over the Truth’ which is much cheaper & thumbed through it, but the writing style didn’t appeal to me so I never read the whole book. They go into the metabolism of cancer (glucose) & the fact that they lack the ability to metabolize ketones for energy, essentially starving them.

here are some articles I’ve been reading, perhaps you could peruse them & send them to your loved one:

https://thequantifiedbody.net/water-fasts-as-a-potential-tactic-to-beat-cancer/

http://www.cancerdefeated.com/the-most-effective-way-to-beat-cancer-is-free-and-do-it-yourself/3105/

(I disagree with the above articles suggestion for juice fasting (straight glucose)

https://thetruthaboutcancer.com/ketogenic-diet-weakens-cancer-cells/

http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/war-cancer

If you are very motivated to do a longer fast, but didn’t like the discomfort of the last effort, you could try adding an hour each time before you have your meal. For example, if you usually go 18 hours from the last meal before you have your ADF meal, perhaps you could try for 19 hrs one week, then 20 hrs the next, etc. Also, each fast gets easier & there’s really no rush if you don’t have concerns over cancer, so you could take it easy & work yourself up slowly to that goal. Just remember the 1st day is the hardest. You can also incorporate some good bone broth for minerals.

It doesn’t sound like you need it for weight loss as you seem to be having good success with what you’re doing. My weight won’t seem to budge w/o it, so I kind of need to do it for that & for health reasons. I can’t say that I like it though! Maybe someday I will.

Kcaun4

7:03 pm
20 Jul 16
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Thanks for the information. I remembering reading an Attia article where he points out the lack of progress in the last 40 years on survival rates from solid tumor cancers. There is a link at the bottom of this article to Seyfried’s article about metabolism. I read some of the reviews on Amazon about his book and I am not sure there is that much more in it.

http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/way-exploit-metabolic-quirk-cancer

I have also read that BG would have to be very low to have an effect and that cancer cells also force regular cells to put out lactic acid for them to use as fuel. I do remembering reading positive results from fasting before chemo in order to reduce side effects. That was for mice and for humans.

I am now running about 30+ hours on my FDs. It gets a little longer as I go. Today it may end up at 36 hours. I end up having about 100, maybe 200 calories on FDs.

Varady thinks the sweet spot is 25% of normal calories for ADF, not 0%. I don’t know if I can eat 500 calories on FDs without feeling really hungry. Eating less than that is much easier for me.

I did have some pastries on the last feed day. I avoided ice cream and ate half a peach instead. I do not usually eat peaches except sometimes…in pastry. Strange things are happening to my appetite. 🙂

I have been reading about some possible issues with long term ketogenic diets. Some of it comes from Jaminet’s Perfect Health Diet which calls for adding in starch. Does a long term ketogenic diet cause problems with mucous in the intestinal lining?

At any rate, I do like bread (not on Jaminet’s diet) and white potatoes but am finding that my taste for all food is declining. This is what happened when I did the 5:2 diet before. I found that the day after a FD ended up being a low-food day just because I wasn’t very interested in eating.

Weight loss is slow but steady even when french pastries are involved!

Thanks for the reminder about bone broth. There are some bones in the freezer waiting to be simmered. Good luck to you!

Kcaun4

8:49 pm
22 Jul 16
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Oddly enough, I really liked Butter Bob’s video on fasting and the fifty percent insulin problem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sAqy1lnWXo

I am boosting my exercise since the weather is nice and, since it is mostly walking, I find no difference between FDs and regular days. I am not very hungry on FDs and, when I am, a few baby carrots or pickles make it go away. Iced tea helps and the occasional sugar free soda.

Kcaun4

5:48 pm
24 Jul 16
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A good video about IF with Jason Fung: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J9DfeOYBKs

It helps me to go over the same material again and again and again and sometimes again in order to internalize the concept. I find it helpful to hear the same idea from different viewpoints.

Whether it ends up being correct is an entirely different issue at this point. At 1.5-2 lbs per week in weight loss so far with room for regular eating, parties, restaurant meals, sometime stress eating etc. ADF is a good bargain.

I am curious to see if ADF can prevent a plateau in the 6 month range or if combining it with LCHF on regular days makes it: 1. go faster, 2. prevents plateaus short of the desired goal. At some point, obviously, there has to be a permanent plateau but where will it be?

Kcaun4

4:03 am
25 Jul 16
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Skinny people with insulin resistance and why even a small decrease in weight can help some people fix their metabolic problems. The genetic advantage of having fat stores and staying healthy waiting for famines which, of course, do not come these days.

So fasting makes up for having too secure a food supply.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/26/health/skinny-fat.html

mama2two

6:02 pm
25 Jul 16
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thanks so much for the links. I also love reviewing the information. Sometimes a single new sentence can give me new drive. I watched Butter Bob’s video & liked it, very much like a summary of “the Obesity Code” by Fung. I think I might re-read that book for a 3rd time starting today. I ordered another fasting book off amazon called “Periodic Fasting” by Cristian Vlad Zot. I’ll let you know what I think of it when I get it & read through it. I haven’t had a chance to watch the other videos yet, but hope to soon. I can’t wait till Fung’s fasting book comes out in the fall. I really appreciate that he backs up his statements with studies. I find as I read through blogs/articles/etc on fasting that most people have a lot of opinions that they state as fact & a lot of myths keep coming up. Like the muscle mass loss myth… Fung showed that studies have actually shown an increase in Human Growth Hormone & the stimulation of increased muscle mass from fasting. Same as the slowed metabolism myth, Fung showed studies that dispelled that myth.

Anyways, I’m doing pretty good. I’ve increased my number of fasting days to a steady 3 w/ 2 of them being consecutive & have kept them all to full fasts. Surprisingly, I find full fasts easier because it doesn’t wake up my digestion/taste buds, whenever I eat something on a fast day it makes me hungry so for me abstinence is definitely better than moderation. This method has served me well, I’m definitely losing more steadily these past 2 weeks than I did during the 1st month. However, I find that I’m eating more freely on my feeding days, with less discipline to stick to my no snacking/ no food after 7pm goal. Because of the good weight loss, I’m not too concerned for the present, but I can also see the slippery slope. I’ll need to bring all my goals together soon in a way that doesn’t over fill my plate. I will need to have the no snacking/no food after 7pm goal lifestyle by the time I hit my maintenance weight because I have no desire to fast so often long-term. I’m hoping to hit maintenance weight by December, as I’ll have family visiting from out of country for 4 weeks & I can foresee a lot of judgement for skipping meals. Hopefully I can be down to 1 day/week at that point. That should be motivation enough to stick to all my goals starting now because there’s really not a lot of time till Dec!

Kcaun4

6:52 pm
28 Jul 16
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I think what you are doing is harder than what I am doing. I am dieting 50% of the time and definitely eat in the evenings since I am a night owl.

I have found, like you, that eating very little is much better than eating more on FDs. I cannot water fast but a few carrots sticks and a pickle are enough most days. If I sat down to a regular meal, I might eat more regular meals that day. 🙂 I am curious why Varady thinks 500 calorie eating is more effective than 0 calorie eating as 500 calories seems huge: cheese, veggies, crisp bread on FDs. After 6 weeks of doing very low calorie FDs, that would seem like barely fasting.

I had a high carb regular day and the next FD was not good at all. I can see the water weight pack on so I am now keeping carbs moderate (maybe 100g/day) so that FDs are easier.

I am curious about the 2-3 days or more on a waster fast rebooting the immune system. I wonder if that is actually true and if 48 hours is long enough. I am still around 30-32 hours on FDs but I think 48 hrs and an actual water fast would make me really cranky.

Thanks for the book idea. That is exactly what I am looking for!

mama2two

11:01 pm
29 Jul 16
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Ya, I’m not really sure why Varady opts for 500 cals on fast days, I’m not sure what biomarkers she’s looking at. I’m kind of focusing on my insulin right now & according to Fung, the greater the space between food resets the insulin levels & the body’s ‘set weight’. That’s why I’m trying to dump the snack & evening munchies. I’m really hoping Fung’s theory about insulin is right because I was getting to the end of my rope. I’d gotten to the point where I was trying to convince myself that this is who I am & that I’m happy being overweight. I’m just really happy I stumbled across the 5:2. I’ve seen movement on the scale & can already see it in my face & belly, that’s just so huge for me. All while not denying myself on feeding days (while trying to stay healthy). Seriously, who can lose weight & have enchilada’s & chocolate! It’s been pretty awesome. I know I should start to be more disciplined with my carbs soon, but I haven’t been able to eat so freely since I was about 13 & it’s just really nice to join the land of the eating!

Kcaun4

5:00 am
30 Jul 16
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I went back and watched the Mosley fasting documentary and liked that Varady took him to the burger joint where he downed a burger with fixings and what looked like a big ice cream concoction. She does like to say, ‘whatever you like’ on feast days. I think it’s feed days but I like the feast day aspect. 🙂

I have found that bread and even ice cream and pastries seems to be ok. I imagine things would go better without them but I might pop off the diet if it is too restrictive. Potatoes OTOH really pack on the weight. I am surprised by that. I like, but do not love, potatoes so I am ok with avoiding them.

I tend to gravitate back to bread and butter although I am not eating as much of that as I was before. I tend to eat LCHF so bread was not that common. Now that I can have it half the time, I am not as interested!

I figure that I need to have a diet that I can use permanently. That has to be one that allows for carbs and sugar and other real life foods. I remember an Attia post where he talked about going (maybe for his bday) out to dinner and having dessert, all of the desserts. Enchiladas sound really good….FD today.