Oscillating — what is the science behind not making progress?

This topic contains 12 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by Apricot 7 years, 10 months ago.

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Wipam

7:08 am
23 Feb 16
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I tested this diet on myself for about a year now. I have had an initial success with the 5:2 diet and lost about 5 kg in 4 months, bringing my BMI down to 23. I have not reached the objective that my waste size should be equal to or less than half my body length.

Since 7 months, I have been trying to bring my weight a little bit further down, just 2 more kg and I am also aiming for a couple of centimeters less waste size, and though I stick to the diet, I am just oscillating. I do not eat absurdly on a non-fast day and do not bypass the maximum calory intake (I do permit myself to eat sugary stuff on those days, or rice), and yet, sometimes I notice I gain 1,5 kg on such a day.Then the rest of the week is needed to get that off again. All in all, I could not make any progress since August. I filled in the tracker on this website by measuring myself about every wednesday morning, it is frustrating to look at and confirms my observation that the diet stopped working for me.

I wonder, how can it be that weight gain happens so fast? – to gain 1,5 kg in a day is just amazing me (I don’t think I eat 1,5 kg on a day), but it happens regularly to me.. it reminds me of what some people said about low-carb diets: as soon as you start eating carbs again even to a modest extent, you gain weight immediately. I see this pattern happening to me within each week after my fast days.

Is there any scientific evidence that the body after a while adjusts to this diet and further weight loss becomes difficult to achieve?

simcoeluv

7:26 am
23 Feb 16
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Hi Wipam:

I don’t think it has anything to do with the ‘diet’. I think it has to do with how much you are eating. If you are eating 5/600 cal. on diet days and to your TDEE or less on non diet days, you must lose weight. If you have been going for more than a month without losing weight then you are eating enough above your TDEE that you do not have a calorie deficit.

I assume you have recomputed your TDEE at your current weight and are not exceeding that number on your non diet days. If that assumption is correct, and you are doing your diet days correctly, then the TDEE number given by whatever calculator you are using is too high. TDEE numbers are only estimates, so if eating to them is not causing weight loss, then they are by definition too high. You simply need to eat less than you have been eating.

Likewise, if you are keeping track of the calories you are eating and not losing weight and the TDEE number is correct, then your ‘calorie tracker’ may be wrong on the high side. You can get different caloric values from different sources, so they are really estimates, too.

The bottom line is that you simply have to eat less than you have been eating to resume your weight loss.

As for your magic weight gains, they are probably a combination of water weight and weight in transit. The water weight comes from the carbs – it is not fat weight. When you eat carbs, the excess blood sugar is stored in the liver and muscles. However, for every gram of blood sugar stored (glycogen) the body needs up to four grams of water to store it. That is why when people start eating carbs, like on vacation or over a non diet weekend, they gain weight quickly. The weight comes off just as quickly when carb intake is reduced and the excess glycogen is burned off and the water needed to save it is discharged from the body.

The bottom line is there is nothing wrong with the ‘diet’, and it does not ‘stop working’. Research shows that if a person eats less than their TDEE they continue to lose weight until they die. So if you are not losing, then you need to decide if you want to eat less or be happy where you are.

The less you eat, the more you lose!

Good Luck!

QuietOne

2:37 pm
23 Feb 16
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I would suggest recalculating your TDEE using a more “sedentary” activity level.

On fast days only eat 25% of your TDEE and stay under your TDEE on NFD’s while staying away from carbs and refined sugars as much as possible, ie cut back on bread, baked goods, treats, potatoes, rice, without making yourself feel deprived.

I would calorie count everything that goes in your mouth for a while and see if perhaps inadvertently you are going over your TDEE on NFD. It is easily done just by picking up a handful of pistachios every once in a while, sweets from a bowl, or even tasting meals you’re cooking. Surprising how so little adds up quickly.

You can do this. Think before you put anything in your mouth. Is this taking me towards more goal or sideways?

QuietOne

4:43 pm
23 Feb 16
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I truly didn’t respond to your question “What is the Science Behind Not Making Progress”

The science is you are taking in more energy (calories) than is being expended.

The question can be rephrased as How does one lose weight?

The answer is take in (consume) less energy (calories as food) than you expend. Calorie restriction. In 5:2 you are restricting calories through fasting.

It is a fact that if you consume less than you expend you will lose weight. So the opposite is also true. Expend more than you consume and you will lose weight. Calorie restriction is easier to do than calorie consumption. To loose half a pound takes about 1750 calories in deficit which is likely fasting for a day. (a fasting day being a night, a day and a night 36-38 hours) Do it twice a week and you loose a pound.

To expend enough energy to burn off a pound using exercise… Running burns 750 calories on average in a 6 minute mile. 3500 (pound) / 750 (calories burned per hour give you 4.67 hours of running at a 6 mile an hour pace, 750 (calories per hour) X 4.67 (hours in a pound) = 3502 calories burned.

1. I can’t run a mile let alone a six minute mile. and I sure don’t have 4.6 hours free to do it in.

Fasting is much more efficient and doable for me. Your mileage truly may vary.

bigbooty

12:51 am
24 Feb 16
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I think its reasonable to expect a fluctuation of 1-2kg per week (or even daily). Simply drinking a bottle of water will add 1kg. The food you eat isn’t excreted instantly. If you sat down and ate a big bowl of salad for lunch that’s probably 0.5kgs.

Im usually about 1.5kg heavier the day before I start my two consecutive fast days compared to when I wake up after my two fast days.

QO is correct about you needing to recalculate your TDEE. Obviously what you are eating and what you expend equal each other. That info doesn’t tell you why though. Try an experiment. Eat the same TDEE but cut out breads rice and high sugar foods for a few weeks. Substitute it for foods with a higher fat and protein content. Butter, high fat yogurt, cheese, beans/lentils. Monitor what happens.

Wipam

8:25 am
24 Feb 16
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First of all, I really want to thank each of you for your reactions and advise. I take from this that I should watch more carefully what I eat during the non-fasting days. For that, I should recalculate my TDEE.

I started recalculating TDEE this morning already, and found out that there are several calculators giving me very different scores – differences of 400 calories per day between the higher and lower calculators. So I should be more conservative and follow the lower ones, just to be safe. If you know a TDEE calculator that is more accurate than others, I’d be interested.

It is also true that I do not count calories for the non-fast days and indeed, I have tried to eat normal, including breads/rice etc. Though I’m definitely not careless on non-fasting days, my challenge is that in my commercial job, there is a lot of business lunches and dinners. It is difficult to cut back on those meetings. I used to plan my fast days on days without business lunches/dinners so I can eat alone or in the family. I did lose weight like that in the beginning, but not anymore.

Thank you for your help, simcoeluv, quietone and bigbooty!!

Donna6732

5:44 pm
25 Feb 16
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Thank you. This information is very helpful to me. 3 weeks in, down 5 pounds, have 20 to go. My question is regarding the TDEE, which I calculated at my start date to be approx. 1540 calories, so I am eating, keeping track and calculating very carefully to eat 1500 calories on my 5 non-fast days. I use the 500 calorie count on my fast days. However, so should I be recalculating my TDEE each time I have a loss, and therefore reducing calories for non-fast days eeach time? (that could be happening every week).

QuietOne

6:14 pm
25 Feb 16
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Calculate for 5lbs less than what you do weigh.I calculated for 5 lbs less than I am. Then when I reach that weight or within a pound I calculate for 5 less pounds.

Example only not my actual weights. Weight 238 calculate TDEE for 230, weight 231 calculate TDEE for 225, weight 226 calculate TDEE for 220 and so on.

Then I figured what the heck and said this is what I want to weigh and calculated my TDEE for that and now I don’t have to do anymore recalculations. To be honest I don’t have a goal weight. I’m not doing a diet. I’m doing an eating pattern for the health benefits that it gives me. The weight loss is just a free bonus I get for fasting. I love free stuff.

You can set goal points say you want to end up at 125 but you now weigh 187. Going all the way to 125 in one jump might be too much so you set it up for 3 different goals. 165 to start. 22 pounds doable in 5 months. then set it for 140. Then say 125 which is your final goal weight.

You can set it any way you want. Short goals in 5lb increments will help reinforce that you are achieving something.

Donna6732

6:55 pm
25 Feb 16
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Great suggestion! I will try that. Thank you.

Zsofie

10:47 am
21 Mar 16
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Hello everyone 🙂
I have been on the every other day diet for more than a year now and i have lost about 15 pounds, however, after 6 months the weight loss just stopped. I have not changed my eating habbit since then, i even started going to the gym, exercising 3-4 times a week for an hour and a half. So my body is starting to get into shape, but with the same weight on. I just dont understand why it just stopped working even though its not supposed to not work..I’m a little disappointed and most of all helpless..
You got some advice?

Cheers,
Zsofie

Vero

12:51 pm
7 Apr 16
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The most important thing to realize about losing weight is that ALL foods raise INSULIN levels, (not just sugars). This includes protein which is why the original Atkins diet was not ultimately successful. The calorie counting is somehow irrelevant given this finding. The other interesting thing is that artificial sweeteners ALSO RAISE INSULIN levels which is why they are not useful for dieters. True, the calories are reduced, but as the insulin goes up, the benefit is lost, so proving the irrelevance of the calorie count method, and the uselessness of artificial sweeteners. I have myself been victim to the craze of using Aspartame in my coffee, and attribute this to my lack of results despite merciless attention to diet! I have this very day thrown the aspartame in the dustbin.

Vero

3:53 pm
7 Apr 16
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It is not really about total calories, it is about insulin levels, and intervals of time allowed between food intakes in order to allow growth hormones and adrenalin to rise, and insulin to drop.

Apricot

1:31 pm
12 Jun 16
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I’ve just picked up on this interesting thread. Jason Fung says that we have to take into account a couple of things: one is that calories in, calories out are not independent of each other. Calories are used in many ways and stored too, even when people are dieting. So they may not go out but get stored because …..secondly, as Vero says, Fung notes that it’s insulin driven, so if you raise insulin with sweet, carby food or to a lesser extent protein, insulin will force any excess into fat cells; then until the insulin subsides the fat cells won’t allow any stored fat out. So if your system needs glucose and fats, which can either be eaten as carbs and sweet things or manufactured from inside fat cells, unless your insulin is lower your cells won’t release and you crave snacks. So snacking often prevents fat use, especially if they are sweet or carby. And fasting helps all this.

The one food that doesn’t raise insulin is fat, and it also slows absorption of other foods, thus reducing spikes in blood sugar and insulin. That’s why nuts or peanut butter can be a good snack, though they have a lot of energy. But by not snacking, and fasting instead, insulin steadies allowing the fat in cells to be used. Original Atkins did work, but people went back onto carbs without care and without reducing their fats at the same time, so put it back on. Now the new one has tried to cover that base. I’ve not tried it, but lost well on Dukan, which was similar but is also changed because of the insulin issue with protein and the weight gain on carbs returning (my experience too).