Yes, this is an interesting thread. I’m just catching up again after being away for a bit and off the fasting. I was staying in hotels with my choir and eating out all the time, which is harder because there’s mostly a lot of carb. But breakfast is mostly ok with natural yogurt, eggs ( no toast but I did slip in the hash brown😟). My downfall was a rather indigestible naan one evening, along with a range of curries. Have returned to a FD and 1.5 lbs up, hey ho. Found the FD hard as I always do after starchy food the day before, so was over to 700 by bedtime. Next one will be better I expect, though now I’ve guests coming.

I have read the BSD book. It has quite a bit of the newer research in it, particularly on insulin and the work of Dr Roy Taylor at Newcastle. He also refers to Dr David Ludwig’s work. It also mentions the Leptin/ grehlin issue we’ve been discussing on this thread. At 800 cal per day it is a very low cal diet, so will probably be particularly susceptible to later weight gain issues. It relies also on low carbs higher fat. But MM does suggest combining it with 5:2, or 4:3, using an 800 rather than a 500 cal model ( blood sugars are the target here, remember – he says weightloss will be slow). This has caused me not to despair and binge if I go over on a FD, as there will still be some fasting effect and my insulin curve will be flattened if I use the right foods ie little carb, some protein and higher fat, a combination that helps glucagon.

Jason Fung also suggests some 24 hour patterns if people find 36 or more too hard. His book and Michael Eades’ blog also extol home made broth on a fast day because it does not raise insulin levels and can be low cal if fat skimmed when cold. It strikes me that both of these might help maintenance too, though I’m not there yet so can’t be sure. But a 24 hour 4:3 might be relatively easy, as effectively you would just skip breakfast and lunch on three week days, eating only dinner; or else go from lunch to next day’s lunch, whichever suits. Any maintainers tried it?

Hello Apricot, I’m from Brazil and I write with Google Translate.
You asked about fasting 24 hours, I’m doing every day of fasting with 1000 calories at dinner, I found much easier so free only on Saturday and Sunday, must eliminate enough weight, I adapted well to this form because I think more difficult eat in a normal day and then back to fast. last month were least 3 kg.
Good fasting all!

Dr Jason Fung’s response: https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/biggest-loser-diet-explained/

Hi,
Just dropping in after reading about a third of this thread, to give some further information which may have a bearing on this topic. I have been on 5:2 for 18months and been stable within a 1.5 kg window for the last 7 months, after losing 16kgs. I am looking to lose another 6-7kgs when I resume off a maintenance mode which has come about for non food/weight reasons.

Specifically, I’m mentioning info about compulsive eating.

For about 60-65% of people with ADHD/ADD there is a component of this condition that involves food, chemicals, odours etc. they are prone to allergies and intolerances, the allergies being an immune system response and the intolerances a different response, often gut, but also other things. There are specialists on both sides of the allergy/intolerance science and debate.

The susceptible child/adult with ADHD/ADD can have a type of intolerance (yes they exist), that includes a component of ‘addiction’ or compulsive eating of the food that is causing the intolerance. Sounds counter-intuitive, but it’s how it works. ADHD/ADD people have a deficiency of neurotransmitters between the brain cells in certain parts of the brain.

When an intolerance food e.g. wheat itself, the gluten in the wheat, or chemicals added in processing e.g. In some breads, the person may crave bread. Here’s how it goes :

1. Eat bread,
2. Feel good for a period of time e.g. 2hrs
3. Reaction to bread begins – may be physical, or may be brain based e.g. Irritable, depressed, foggy
4. Reaction initiates a craving for the susceptible food, in this scenario bread
5. Eats bread, symptoms abate for a while e.g. 2 hrs
6. Symptoms return, craving returns
Repeat, repeat, repeat.
If asked they will tell you they love bread.

These types of intolerances need to be worked through with a dietician using elimination testing.

Best wishes,
Merry

Hi Maybelle
Another thing is that men and women are different and I think even when women are post menopause their metabolisms slow down more when they lose weight. Has anyone read about any research based on gender differences? I haven’t found any that compare men and women.
I started 5:2 to avoid diabetes 2 and joint issues related to being overweight plus strokes heart attacks etc. Everything I read said being in the healthy weight range is a good thing and the best way to be healthy was to eat nutritious fresh natural foods and moderate exercise.I am now doing all these things and am in the healthy weight range like you. Now I read I may be slowing down my metabolic rate and I will regain my weight plus more. Nice one. I hope the scientists keep on with their research.

Hi Maybelle
I shall keep reading and try to find out about boosting the metabolism and if I find anything I’ll pass it on. I hope you enjoy your travels.

Maybelle, thanks for the links in the NY times – very interesting read, and it’s good to read this information in a mainstream paper with a huge readership, not an esoteric blog somewhere.

Merryme, the information about ADD and bread is very interesting. I know a couple of people who fit this pattern. Must discuss it with them.

Onahealthyhigh, I SO agree. It’s not “one size fits all”!!!

Hi,
Interesting..I don’t think I will stop it as it is supposed to have other long term health benefits and that was mostly the reason for doing it in the first place. The weight loss was an added bonus. It’s just rather annoying! I guess I have also grown 5 years older and don’t burn as much off as many calories as I used to!

Hi may:

The NYT article was widely discussed on this forum when it came out. It has since been relegated to the trash pile (by research scientists) as a completely flawed ‘study’. It was totally unscientific, had no control group and the list goes on and on. But if you really believe it, don’t bother to diet at all because it is a fruitless endeavor. According to the study, you have to gain the weight back – you have no choice because your metabolism is so low you can’t possibly eat little enough not to gain.

Everyone has a different TDEE, and studies show that different people react differently to exercise – some burn less than half the calories than others doing the exact same exercise for the exact same lengths of time. In other words, some people are more ‘efficient’ than others, and need less food to run their bodies than some others do. It is genetic, not a result of exercise or weight loss.

There is so much more to it, and trying to simplify it is really a waste of time. And so is worrying about it.

It just comes down to whether or not you want to lose weight. If you do, you can. And there are many, many people in the world that have kept the weight off after losing it. Even the man that water fasted for over a year gained only five pounds of the over 280 he lost back after a five year period. But, according to your theory, his metabolism should have been almost nil and he should have ballooned as soon as he started eating again. Ask any of the maintainers on this site about how they keep the weight off, and you will hear that they eat very little compared to what they used to eat, closely watch what they eat, weigh often (even to the extent of carrying scales when they travel) and fast as soon as they get above their acceptable upper weight limit. And, usually, along the way they have also changed their diets radically. If you don’t do those things, you are bound to regain your lost weight. It does not take an injured metabolism to do it for you. But if you do those things, you can keep the weight off. Blaming a slow ‘metabolism’ (by the way, have you ever looked at the definition of metabolism? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolism ) is simply an excuse for not putting in the very hard work necessary to successfully lose and maintain your weight loss.

Don’t worry about your metabolism – it is what it is and you can’t do much of anything about it. You can raise your TDEE by exercising and gaining weight, and lower it by losing weight and not exercising, but that is about it.

Good Luck!

Oops what have I started! This is all very interesting.
Simcoeluv – I understand that people react differently to excercise and it is genetic as to whether I benefit from excersise or not, some people are non responders (as was proven in another Horizon program with Michael Mosley).But if it isn’t my metabolism that has changed what has? Because something has changed within me. (my response to excersise hasn’t). When I first started fasting I would easily lose 2 lbs a week, now I lose nothing or 1/2 lb if I have a really good/strict week. I am convinced that if I hadn’t done this at all before and was just starting now – I would be able to lose 2 lbs a week. So something must have changed?

I am doing the same things as I used to do – 600 cals on fast days and not worrying that much about what I eat on non fast days (as that is the beauty of the 5:2) but it is approx the same as I always have. It’s possible that the no of cals I now eat on non fast days has crept up very slightly but if anything I used to eat a lot worse on my non fast days when I started than I do now! And that is when I lost the most weight.So something has definitely changed. It would be interesting to know what that is if not metabolic rate.

Well its good to see I am not the only one who lost a lot of weight on 5:2 and after 3 years I am now struggling to maintain my weight and I have put weight on too.
Like everyone else, I didn’t stick to my 5:2 regime when I was away on holidays, but was trying to be sensible. I found that in the first two years of 5:2 I could literally eat what I wanted on non fast days and still the weight came off. I am 62 this year and have gone up a dress size, I really thought I was over the dieting phase of my life after doing 5:2 for three years.
I guess I will have to really cut down on calories on my non fast days, as it is I have been omitting lunch, but I tend to snack on fruit and almonds if I get hungry between breakfast and dinner. The other option is to make sure I eat protein for breakfast and not carbs.
I guess we don’t need as many calories a day as we get older, but it is so annoying that I cannot now enjoy a small 140ml glass of wine if I go out to dinner, which is not very often. Perhaps more exercise is another thing to look at. I am VERY DETERMINED to get back on track and its great to see other long term 5:2 people going through the same issues. Perhaps we can all support each other to get back on track?

Im at 1 year after losing 20kg on 5:2 1.5 year since starting. Noticed I have to switch between 6:1 and 5:2 depending how much I eat. Im still determined to continue fasting and eating whatever I like. Hoping to keep my new weight 5+ years.

This week I overeat one day 4000kcal and above TDEE on other days so I had to use 2 fasting days to recover.

Current weight 65kg around 10%bf

Onahealthyhigh has a good point. Metabolism is very complex and things are always changing. I find I have to adjustments to the foods I eat all the time. I’m slowly moving towards a more healthy vegetarian diet. (Which I really didn’t do yesterday and my body has clearly shown its displeasure, big weight spike.)

I’m prone to seeing my weight loss get stuck or even reverse course. However I mostly don’t count calories and I eat some very calorie dense foods, so I expect that. Still I’ve lost weight where the numbers indicate I should be gaining weight. Primary that is probably a benefit of hard works outs, my TDEE doesn’t match the estimates. Someday that will fail me, things change.

Over time:
> We get older
> Our health changes
> Our bodies change
> Likely our environment changes
> …

I’ve been successfully improving every year for the past six years, so I know it can be done. However there was a two year period the improvements were much smaller and one year I probably wouldn’t have know without bloodwork being done.

I’m in the 2nd year of fasting 2 days a week most weeks. I don’t expect this is something I will or can continue forever.

Hi there, I started 5:2 3 years ago and soon lost 16 kg from 68 kg to 52, with a little flucatuationin weight 1-2. I also exercise moderately since I started this diet theee years ago but now I’m a little worried as u said as in the last 6 months I am seeing a steady gain in weight.. around 5 kgs!!!!
Yes I must admit I have slackened a little bit and maybe eat out a little more but I’m wondering if long term this diet will not work.. am I going back to 68??? This is scary and I need to know if anyone else has been able to keep their weight down and are long term intermittent fast people like me.. need some encouragement at this time.
I’m trying to now become more disciplined like before.. but I am wondering if it’s just my slackening or this diet has a shelf life..please advise.

Maybelle, I have been Fasting for 5 years. My age = 69 and my BMI is now 18.3. We Fast 2 days/week at 600-700 calories for those 2 days. I do not find this way of life to be difficult at all. My TDEE =1450 which is certainly sufficient for me. My husband and I have maintained our weight loss and find that this works very well. And we eat all sorts of things: this morning there were almond croissants for breakfast and tonight will be home-made pizza with wine. We eat, we Fast, we maintain our weight. You can too.

May belle, did you not find that your appetite reduced on 5:2, anyway, do you simply don’t want loads of food? It’s not a case of ‘being on a diet’ at all.

I eat whatever I like, including an ice cream every day in this unusually hot summer. I have a glass of wine every day. In fact, I’m deliberately trying not to lose anymore weight, as I’ve gone below by bottom wriggle room fir most of the summer. At 71, with high cheekbones, I can look gaunt.

It’s a shame this forum doesn’t let graphs or images be posted as I have 5.5 years of 5:2 data which would explain my personal 5:2 history far better than any words. Looking at my graphs I have a cycle of weight gain and weight loss ever since the initial 6 months of straight line loss at a rate of about 1.4 lbs/0.65kg per week. I thought I’d lost a bit too much so was OK with 6:1 allowing a small weight gain over the next 6 months. Since then I’ve stuck to 5:2 (same fast day meals each week as I’ve always done) and have inconsistent cycles of gaining, holding, losing, gaining, losing etc. etc. for no obvious reasons. During this time I’ve had 2 redundancies, both in-laws dying, 4 operations and varying degrees of general good/bad health – the latter much better since having regular kefirs and doing “fast exercise” on a static bike. With the heat this summer and lots of salads being eaten I’m back down to the weight I want to be to maintain a BMI of 22.5, having recently had quite a weight plummet since 8th April. I originally started with a BMI of 27.0 and dropped to a lowest of 21.6. I’ve never gone back higher than 23.9 but have mostly been higher than 22.5. My waist has varied from 92cm to 82.6cm over the same time, so various different ranges of trousers have had to be used. My original weight loss was about 38lbs/17kgs and to maintain a BMI of 22.5 I need to keep the overall weight loss at 34.5lbs/15.7kg.

I cannot offer any genuine insights as to why I’ve gained and lost, I just stick to keeping doing 5:2 (for all the other health reasons than just the weight loss of course) and now simply accept there will be fluctuations like this over time. I suspect at times I must have had a few too many treats on non-fast days. As with most people I don’t 5:2 on holidays. I’ve never counted calories on non-fast days, but I do know my appetite is much smaller than it was when I started. If it’s relevant I’m male and was 49 when I started on 5:2 and am now 54.

I’m not sure this adds much to the discussion other than to confirm that, after a while, weight gain on 5:2 certainly happened to me too, but, so far anyway, it can also be lost again with perseverance.

Yes indeed! I’ll keep going though for the other health benefits…