Welcome to The Fast Diet › The official Fast forums › Body › Medical conditions and fasting › Latest from Newcastle university study into type 2
This topic contains 12 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by bennyboy 2 weeks, 6 days ago.
Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
3 Dec 15
The presentation done by the peeps from Newcastle uni in Canada on Tuesday and reported in the press Wednesday is really going to put the cat among the pigeons!. Its well known that most type 2 is caused by lifestyle, turns out its fat in the pancreas, and once that’s gone, so’s the diabetes!. Massive implications for Health care and taxpayers. No drugs needed, just lose weight!
I was diagnosed 8 weeks ago at 17st, now im 15st 9lb and will be 12 1/2st by march, using the 5:2 and having an average of 1500 cals a day.
Lets see if it rids me of the curse of type 2!
What confuses me is that a family member lost weight at an alarming rate recently and is now very thin – the diagnosis was type 2 diabetes which he is now stable on medication for. Obviously all that weight loss didn’t have an effect on the fat in his pancreas because he’s still diabetic.
The study claims that the only way they currently know to reduce fat in the pancreas is to massively decrease weight everywhere else, which he has done.
Im no doctor but in most people the pancreas is still partially working, i think that rapid weight loss like that is when it completely stops.
I’m no doc either, but the people in the study had gastric bypass surgery, I assume the weight loss is pretty rapid. Also why would the sudden weight loss make the pancreas just stop? Genuine questions, I’m not playing devil’s advocate, just trying to understand.
Hi atcgirl and bennyboy:
Diabetes is not caused by fat in the pancreas. It is caused by insulin resistance. To get rid of that requires periods of caloric restriction combined with eating foods that do not spike the blood sugar, which causes increased insulin and after time insulin resistance. When bypass surgery takes place, people eat much less food which causes a big decrease in insulin production which lessens insulin resistance which reverses the diabetes. That is why almost 90% of bypass patients with diabetes are diabetes free within a couple of months after surgery. The reversal of the diabetes is not caused by the weight loss, it is caused by the elimination of insulin resistance via lower insulin production because the patients are eating so much less food. The weight loss is a ‘side effect’ of the process or treatment.
Dr. Fung and many other doctors have figured out a way to get the same results without surgery by using fasting combined with a high fat, low carb diet. It is working for thousands of people at basically no cost. My 30 Sep 14 post on this thread gives links to two of Dr. Fung’s speeches that outline how it is done – one to patients and the second speech to doctors: https://thefastdiet.co.uk/forums/topic/the-basics-for-newbies-your-questions-answered/
I forgot to say that as the key to cutting insulin resistance is keeping insulin production in the body low, the types of foods eaten are important. You must stay away from foods that cause too much insulin production in the body. Generally speaking, these foods are classified as processed carbs and certain proteins from red meat. The protein part is why simply following the glycemic index is not completely helpful – protein does not raise blood sugars, but does raise insulin levels.
So even if you lose weight, if you keep eating those types of foods the insulin resistance will continue as will the diabetes. Which is why there are many, many ‘thin’ diabetics.
4 Dec 15
simcoeluv all your explanations make perfect sense and that was all my original understanding of how type 2 works.
But it’s hard to ignore the fact that all these obese people either had type 2 or they didn’t and those who did had the fatty pancreas. Then the fat decreased in those with type 2, whereas there was no change in the non diabetics.
This study did have a very small group though and I don’t know much about medical studies, but wonder if these results can actually be statistically significant enough to draw conclusions from.
Are you suggesting that the fatty pancreas might actually be a side effect then and not have any effect on insulin secretion?
If you go to Newcastle uni website and read the study you will see that the study was not done on people who had had surgery. Thats why they undertook the study, to see if it was the fitting of the band that cured the type 2, or the liquid diet that followed it.This has been around for four years!. people were put on 3 x 200 protein shakes and 200 cal of low carb veg per day, and people reversed their disease. It is the studies findings that blame fat in the pancreas. I urge you to read it.
Hi atc girl:
A result of too much insulin is increased fat deposits (weight gain). Reductions in insulin levels decreases fat deposits (weight loss). It is hard to decrease fat without decreased insulin levels – just ask any diabetic on insulin who gains weight in the face of their doctor’s advice to lose weight. The insulin therapy they are prescribed maintains constantly high levels of insulin in the blood and makes it almost impossible to lose weight. So yes, I believe research shows that the fatty pancreas is a side effect of too much insulin, and that the pancreas loses its fat as insulin secretion decreases as a result of a diet that reduces insulin levels in the body, with accompanying fat loss – including fat in the pancreas.
Research with people that have had stomach reduction surgery shows that they reverse their diabetes long before they lose a lot of weight. Most were morbidly obese before their surgery, and shortly after their surgery they no longer had diabetes even though they were still classified as obese. It is hard to believe that their fat loss came first from pancreatic fat and that is why they reversed their diabetes even though they were still obese. These studies make it clear to me that it is the reduction in insulin levels that reverse the diabetes, not the reduction in weight, which is a side effect of the reduction in insulin levels.
bennyboy: I read the link you posted and found no new or groundbreaking information. If you think about what they did – put people on a low calorie diet that maintains low and does not raise insulin levels – you will understand they ‘discovered’ a method to reverse diabetes that has been utilized since the 1970s. However, mainstream medicine has refused to acknowledge what Dr. Goldhamer has been doing and Dr. Atkins did for decades, and, so far, what Dr. Fung is doing by putting the concepts of fasting (Dr. Goldhamer) and low insulin diets (Dr. Atkins) together to achieve faster results. I would really suggest that the researchers you cited are not aware of the true cause of obesity, diabetes, some cancers and heart disease (consistently high insulin levels), and have come to the wrong conclusion that weight loss is the cure. They found the cure – the diet they used – but instead credited weight loss for the beneficial results!
One thing I did notice that is curious in the researcher’s FAQ page was his statements that fat decreased the production if insulin in the pancreas and getting rid of the fat increased the production. That contradicts the theory of insulin resistance – which is diabetes – by suggesting the body is producing too little insulin which is resulting in too high blood sugar. All research I am aware of indicates diabetics suffer from too high insulin levels. The higher insulin levels result from the insulin resistance, requiring the production of more insulin to remove the sugar from the blood. Ultimately, the body generates a resistance to the insulin effects and it is no longer effective. If the real problem is too little insulin, the body should react positively to increased therapeutic insulin, as it does with type 1 diabetics. However, we know that injecting insulin does not cure diabetes, and the disease progresses until many of the other bad things insulin causes start showing up.
I urge you to read the information I offered to you. If you really are interested (as it does not seem you reviewed the information I previously offered), here is a speech Dr. Fung gave to a group of doctors explaining how he reverses diabetes using fasting and a high fat diet. He gave this speech when he embarked on his mission to cure diabetes. Note how the doctors in the audience laughed at his idea, which has so far helped hundreds of patients (he just began using the procedure a couple of years ago – Drs. Atkins and Goldhamer have reported helping thousands of diabetics over the last 40 or so years): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oZ4UqtbB_g
Here is a speech by Dr. Fung that addresses and explains the results of your Newcastle study. It is very informative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcLoaVNQ3rc
5 Dec 15
Its a very interesting subject of which i have a vested interest.I went low carb, less than 15 grms per day, i lost a stone in four weeks then nothing for three, so im doing low cal and The 5:2.Im now eight weeks in and interestingly although im fasting and having less than 1500 cal overall per day, one of my symptoms, peeing every two hours, has returned.It seems that even a modest increase in carbohydrate has had this effect.I have only been on 5:2 for a week, so may be that will change.
So maybe that backs up what you were saying.
However, both studies show that fasting works.Dr Fungs talk also highlights one of modern medicines failings- treat the symptoms not the cause.
I have spent years getting like this, and i know some effort will be required to reverse it, but early signs are good.
Thank you for your replies, you help a lot of people on here.
FOR SIMCOELUV. Thank you very much for posting the links for those videos, the message is very important for pre and type 2 sufferers. The point is a person could lose a lot of weight but would be undone if the insulin sensitivity issue hasn’t been addressed, this type of info is just not available from my doctor or the NHS.
Wont it be fabulous if fasting just two days a week lifts the burden of type 2 and some other conditions? Thanks again for for your help.
My main point was that you don’t have to become ‘slim’ before you reverse your diabetes. Many of Dr. Fung’s patients remain obese or overweight after they have reversed their diabetes, just a most stomach surgery patients reverse their diabetes long before they lose much weight.
Dr. Fung’s program is a combination of fasting and a ketogenic diet. You were on the right track with the keto diet, and it works if you do it long enough. However, it takes time. Dr. Fung found by adding fasting the process is speeded up considerably.
A very basic outline of Dr. Fung’s program goes like this. First, he usually has his patient water fast for at least a week. Some have water fasted for as long as three weeks. After that, depending on the severity of the diabetes, he usually has them do alternate day fasting, doing water fasts on diet days and the keto diet on non diet days. The key to the system is to have diet days that bring the insulin level as low as possible and non diet days that do not raise the insulin levels (by cutting carbs, alcohol and beef). Thinking of the word ‘sensitivity’, think of someone that drinks alcohol constantly. They become ‘used to it’, and need to drink more and more to get the effect from the alcohol that they want (building alcohol resistance). But if they stop drinking for awhile, and then have some drinks, they find it takes less alcohol than it did before to get the effect they want (getting alcohol sensitivity). That is the concept behind cutting insulin levels as low as possible for awhile to get rid of insulin resistance and improve insulin sensitivity.
A person can just start with the ADF segment and succeed – it will just take longer. If you want to use 5:2, then try to water fast on your two diet days and go keto on your non diet days. It will take a little longer, but it will work. And you will still lose weight.
You are motivated and have proven you can do the keto diet. If you don’t focus on weight loss, and focus on doing the diet (whichever method you choose), you will succeed. You will lose weight along the way, but you don’t need to obsess about the amount of the weight loss – you can beat your diabetes long before you reach your weight loss goal.
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