This topic contains 13 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by rockyromero 9 years, 11 months ago.
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I disagree, you should eat your TDEE on your non fast days, particularly if you are doing ADF.
I think this is something that is not often enough stressed in this forum. You need to retain your existing muscle mass. If you do not eat enough a) you will start to burn and lose muscle b) you will not get enough nutrients.
Losing weight is great, but losing it slowly is much better. Start introducing some resistance exercises to make sure to keep your existing muscles. Muscles burn calories even through times of sitting still.
The end goal should be to lose weight AND be fit and healthy! Fast weightloss often ends up with binging and gaining weight back.
For what it is worth, I have been on this journey for seven months now and reached nearly my goal weight (500 grams missing). I believe strongly in adding exercise, eating healthy and following a moderate weightloss regimen and doing the above three in a way that you can keep up for life!
Just my two pennies…
Best of luck
Stef.
Stef., do you really think that someone should eat when they’re not hungry? The TDEE number you get from the calculators is an estimate/average, some people will gain weight if they eat to that number, it seems to me if I’m not hungry I don’t need to eat. I also believe in moderate weight loss, good nutrition, and fitness, but forcing myself to eat more than I want to because a calculator gave me a certain number feels deeply wrong to me.
I think it depends on how much under your TDEE you are eating and over what time period. If it is a small amount I do not see a problem, but if it is regularly far below your daily needs I believe this is not good for your health.
When you are on a weight loss journey and under-feeding your body regularly you really need to be careful about muscle loss. If you are on top of dieting also exercising, good fueling becomes even more important.
I strongly believe that long term success depends on healthy and slow weightloss, particularly the closer you get to maintenance weight. I have read Michael’s book but can not remember him discussing problems of possible muscle loss, which comes with all forms of dieting. I can also not remember him discussing the 5:2 in connection with exercise and the need for resistance training to keep your existing muscles.
There is so much more to losing weight in a healthy way than just cutting calories.
At the end of the day it is everybody’s own decision how they follow their path and we can all do our own research.
Best of luck
Stef.
Stef., I feel like we are talking apples and oranges. I’m not arguing for restricting calories on non-fasting days, far from it; the fact that people doing ADF lost almost all fat, extremely little muscle in the research studies is one of the things that attracted me to intermittent fasting, because the thought of losing what little muscle I have disturbs me (medical problems limit my fitness — I am working on it — but my progress is necessarily limited). What I’m trying to say is that not everyone counts calories on a daily basis and that relying on hunger to be your guide as to when your body needs more food is a safe procedure. It’s a basic part of animal biology that, if you have to burn your own muscle for energy, you’re going to feel hungry. So, on a non-fasting day, if I get hungry two hours before dinner, I may decide to wait for the dinner my son is going to cook rather than eating immediately, but I’m not going to go around feeling hungry for most of the day; and, if I’m not hungry, I don’t eat. An extension of this is that the TDEE calculators will all give you a slightly different number, each of them is only an estimate and an average, and, everyone’s metabolism is a little different from everyone else’s, so, if I’m not hungry, I do not think it is necessary for me to make myself uncomfortable cramming food into myself to get to a certain number. I really don’t think I’m burning muscle if I’m not hungry, no matter what the TDEE calculator says; I think my own hunger level is a more reliable guide to my own, individual, true TDEE. Does that make sense?
I agree we are comparing apples and oranges. I am sure hunger signs are clear indications of whether you feed your body enough or not.
I am sure though that quite a few people are on the fast track to lose weight and they cut severely also on non fast days.
Anyhow, everybody needs to make their own decisions what works and what not.
Stef.
Forgot to say: as far as I know the research re retaining muscle mass by doing 5:2 is skewed and it is by far not clear whether you lose less muscle by doing 5:2 or not. Even Dr. Krista Varadi says this.
http://muscleevo.net/intermittent-fasting-muscle-loss/#.U6Bn7dq9KK0
Stef
Stef:
Varady’s ADF research shows almost no muscle loss. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oZ4UqtbB_g starting about minute 52. Apparently when fasting the body releases a growth hormone to prevent muscle loss. There is no 5:2 research I’m familiar with, but for now if ADF shows almost no muscle loss over 70 days, I suggest 5:2 may have similar results.
As you know, Varady is upset with Dr. M for transplanting her research findings to 5:2 and as a result she has little good to say about 5:2. Her most common statement is that there is no research on 5:2 to support . . . , and she is right. But her research on ADF is pretty clear.
“What I’m trying to say is that not everyone counts calories on a daily basis and that relying on hunger to be your guide as to when your body needs more food is a safe procedure.”
I’m doing no-cal fasting for 36 hours, with minimal hunger and strength training and HIIT sprints on fasting days.
Seems to be working for me physically and I’m enjoying this shift more while getting the results that I want.
To keep or gain muscles, I prefer heavy weights for few reps. The muscles show up.
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14 Jun 14