I’m loving the discussion ladies! And yes, mcca I have gone through periods where the FD’s are really, really REALLY hard. About Nov last year I got so bad that I even stopped doing them altogether and went back to WW for a spell but now (at the moment anyway) not only are the FD’s doable again (I’d NEVER say easy) but I’m also managing to stay at TDEE on the other days. So like the wonderful Jade (loved that image of studying during your ‘exam’!!)I am learning to capitalise on the good times and keep my head down for the not so good. It has been a good week and I’m back to my pre-christmas weight.
Queen, can you just have some of that large dark chocolate bar, rather than the whole thing or is that just not doable? I totally know about things being just beyond my psychological tolerance but you do in fact sound like you have great resilience. Its so easy to see our failures as evidence of a lack of something when in fact it’s more a measure of the ferocity of the battle. We fall down, we get up, that’s resilience and you appear to have it in spades.

Annette you’re right that one of the frightening thing is just how quickly the calories stack up and just how little we need to eat to maintain our weight. I’m a total convert to the weekly weigh-in, and not letting myself get away with too many missed weeks as I know without a doubt this has meant I haven’t been able to hide from the truth and then wake up one day having put 50lbs back on (I have form in having done that a few times now 🙁 ).

So onward and upward islanders and keep trying to tweak what works and forgive when it doesn’t (she says to herself in a big voice). Spring xx

Haha, I’ll take that as a compliment Jade!! I’m strong on rhetoric but sadly a little hopeless on the follow-through, so I’ll be very glad if it motivates you to cake-busting action 🙂

Meanwhile, the reptiles are restless in their cage so I’m going to hit them with a litre of mineral water. xx

A good question about habits Jade (my frighteningly normal friend 😉 ) and one I pondered myself today in relation not to food but the fact that it’s now 10 days since I played a certain addictive on-line game that is a bit of a zen-chamber when I feel bored and nutty. Just felt a bit of a nudge in that direction today, before reminding myself that I don’t do that anymore… The odd diet coke is not bad for you but I don’t want to be the cause of a slide down that reptilian slippery slope!

So my answer is how long is a piece of string. For me, my ‘bad’ behaviour takes root like Jack’s beans and becomes a habit while my ‘good’ behaviour refuses to sprout roots no matter the inducement and I have to buy it from the store. I know it’s because of the addictive/pleasure nature of the ‘bad’ and the frankly often high taking-good-care-of-self-is-boring factor of the ‘good’ so I’m the very last person to ask. I did once do a search in the psychology literature on habit formation and discovered that psychologists and neuro-boffins alike frankly have no idea and they don’t even agree on what causes habits (the neurological science) let alone how long they take to make and break (the behavioural science). The overall take home message seemed to be start the good ones young and you’ll have a much easier time of it. So we can all take those breezy headlines all over popular media “It takes 1/6/8/26/52/100 weeks/months/years/lifetimes to break a habit” with a giant container of salt.

Having said that, there is nothing like cold turkey to give one a bit of insight into ones habits. Maybe we should adopt Yoda’s approach “Do, or do not. There is no try”

Okay, well it’s 40 degrees today so I have to find some cool activities for between dips in the pool. I’m struggling with the heat but it is spurring me on to lose so much weight I become one of those people who are always cold no matter the temperature. Onward and onward and onward to our goals girls!! Spring xxx

Spring, I am much cooler with much less padding, which makes sense I suppose. I can also walk much faster and move more easily than when I was 3 stone heavier than I am now, which in turn makes it easier to move more. If I was in 40C I would be sobbing that it was too hot and then sleeping…

The habit notion is an interesting one. I have found that once I have made my mind up to do something, like give up sugar in my tea, I do it and have to really concentrate on doing it, until I become aware that it is not something that I think about any more. It is no longer an effort, I realize. Tea without sugar is something that I can take or leave, it is not as lovely to me. I have been advised to leave it several months before I try it with sugar once just to recognize how sweet it was, I think that it might be wise to leave it until the summer as I have taken sugar in drinks for 40+ years. I am sure though, that having less sugar in my day means that I no longer crave it. I can have a piece of cake or a couple of chocolates without wanting to scoff the lot which is how I think that normal people eat. They don’t think about it but hopefully that will come as the weeks pass. I like Yoda’s’ approach which sums it up. No point moaning unless I am prepared to make the change is there?
There is no concrete answer Jade. I really wanted a mince pie/cake/pudding and had one/some over Christmas and was really disappointed with each of them. They were not worth the sugar or the calories, but more than that, they didn’t taste as fabulous as they did in my head. The result was that I didn’t eat them again and won’t bother next year. If you try the diet coke and feel the same, then you will know that monkey is off your back, but you may want to leave it a bit longer..your decision.

I do think that it is trial and error, but also how you feel. I have been hungry all day yesterday and today-no idea why so I have tried to spread my meals and some snacks out evenly through the day. As you know , for me nothing is banned, merely avoided and for the most part that works. Sometimes when I know that there is something lovely in the house I just have to have it until it is gone, so there is usually not much around that fits that criteria. I know that when I am tired then I am vulnerable.

I am always very hungry the day after a FD. I think that counting up to my TDEE will also help me to make sure that I am eating enough quality food every day so that I get used to what that looks like. I like sweets too but want to have a few and enjoy them rather than become a complete lunatic and have to scoff the lot in one go. I used to buy myself a large bag to eat when I went to the cinema, and found that it took me several trips without stuff to scoff to become one of those people who didn’t eat during a film. I don’t even think about it now.

Jade, I’m very happy to hear how well you’re doing and right off the back of the festivities. I know the Puritan vs Viking see-saw and I’m definitely in the puritan camp myself right now. More power to you (and all misfit Islanders seeking their equilibrium post holidays).

Queen, wholefood bagels?? Sound wonderful (very hard to get real bagels in my part of Australia) and worthy of an indulgence. Keep us posted with your musings!

Annette, I hope you’re managing the post-FD hunger pangs and kicking reptile a*# as usual?

I am in a very bad mood because the heat just won’t let up. You may have read about the awful fires we’re having and I’m longing for the autumn. Will just drown my sorrows in a cold glass of vino while hubby cooks a yummy pasta dinner – I’m starving as usual but I’ve managed to keep well below TDEE today so fingers crossed for the last few hours (vino included). Spring xxx

I think, Queen, that you have found your own solution. Just buy what you need for that days meals and freeze/label any left overs. Have you tried writing down everything that you eat? It is very helpful and does self limit what I scoff as well.

Spring, I have failed. I have slept badly, it is freezing cold and I need some sun very badly. In my depression I have scoffed more than I should have and have given in to the siren call of sweet things meant for others…last night, tired/cold/grumpy I remembered the gift of the marshmallows and then found that they were best before the end of December. They were supposed to be gourmet(70g sugar/100g-pack 180g) and I shared them out with my chaps and probably ate a third…they were such a disappointment though and yet so high in sugar.

Jade, did you know that you can freeze bread? I bake ciabatta and foccacia regularly, double the recipe and then eat one with a meal and freeze the rest for another time. If I didn’t freeze it then it would be gone!

I must get back to writing down what I eat, that way I can keep a running total up to my TDEE. On the plus side, I have bought much smaller avocados, even though they look as if they are all going to ripen at the same time! Ho hum.

Sadly it has not been going well. A combination of not sleeping well, grey chilly days and a complete lack of sun has conspired against me. I always struggle through the winter. I found and scoffed sweets that I had last night and have stopped writing down what i am eating, which is silly as it makes me think when i tot up what i have eaten.

It occurred to me that last year I lost around 15 lb/10 inches last year and that I also managed to reduce my overall sugar intake and stop sugar in my tea altogether. My aim as always been to shrink my waist to less than half my height, but to achieve that I think that I will need to lose another 14 lb, based on the figures in resources. It is my birthday on Friday and I am off out for a meal with friends, so my plan is to start with one FD next week and get back to 2 FD and keep to my TDEE.

Annette, it’s so easy to get discouraged in the winter. I know exactly what you mean about not doing something you know you should do (i.e. logging what you eat). Sort of what I mean about getting tired of thinking all the time about this. So I had my blow out on Sunday, went up 4 lbs Monday (I know it’s not actual fat but still a shock) and now two days later I’m back down. Carbs really do retain the water don’t they. But thanks to you I remembered the scale isn’t the end of the story; I was relieved to see that most of me (besides the somewhat puffy tummy) was the same when I bravely tried on my new slimmer slacks.

I’m with you all the way on the rest. I probably will never be so normal that I don’t have to do 6:1 and the occasional 6:2 to stay even. But that’ll just be the way it is, because the alternative is not acceptable. I have to say, Monday was a breeze after all the carbs I had Sunday. No cravings at all, very little hunger until late. Not sure what to make of that, except that before 5:2 my typical “morning after” reaction to a heavy meal was that I was hungry. I remember reading something about the stomach stretching, expecting more of the same, or some hogwash. Thanks to 5:2 I do think that is just another bit of conventional wisdom hogwash. But if I believe my stomach is stretched, I can see how that would make me feel hungrier.

Starting to gaze at my navel now – sorry to ramble, and I need to get myself working if I ever expect to go home! xxx

I’m still hanging in there but ferociously hungry at the moment so plan to drink another litre of mineral water before having my hot chocolate and going to bed before I can do too much damage. Finally excited about a weigh in tomorrow morning, despite yesterday’s monumental stuff-up (or stuff-in) and looking forward to your posts my fast friends. Spring xx

Spring dear cyber twin, you are my kind of normal – I think being profound and a bit wacky is just the right touch.
Ah, triggers…we can’t dodge them all. I’ve had similar work projects lately, and they give me that mildly anxious not-sure-this-will-go-well feeling. don’t most people look for a way to relieve the stress? Some just yell at everyone they work with – ugh. I’d much rather work with you; we’d get that project done then go out for pasta and pinot. Yeah!

I wonder if the occasional free-fall appetite is just normal. Mollie, I appreciate your advice and it could ring true for some, but it is not my own reaction to fasting. For one thing, I had issues WAY before 5:2, and the conventional diet wisdom (esp breakfast) often backfired. This is the first time I’ve felt real control. And if fasting caused binges, I’d be having them all the time.

Hey Queen, I tried your idea this week, mainly just having dinner (either a FD or regular one). It’s worked pretty well but I’ve also been back at work so not near a fridge. I doubt I can keep it up on a weekend, but carpe diem and all that – when I feel the control I am making the most of it!

So Spring, did you make it to bed without tripping over any carbs? Hope the scale is/was kind to you — xxx

Hi, welcome to the island acreagehall – hope you’ll stick around. Someone mentioned this book earlier, several of us have read it and found it very helpful. And yay for you in your progress! Good luck with 5:2 – it has been a life-changer for me, and there is so much good advice and support here. I found 5:2 has helped me finally understand how appetite control works and how different it is for each individual. There is more than one way to skin a cat so to speak, which is not the way any of the traditional health advice has been given, i.e., don’t skip breakfast or you’ll die/binge/etc. But there are other reasons for binges and other methods of control. That’s why I liked her approach; it sounded a bit odd but the important thing is that it worked for her. I especially liked what she wrote about having felt powerless to stop the binges until she got her whole life under control, because that’s what she was told was the cause – stress, etc. I mean, who EVER has their entire life under control?

So good luck with the fast day – you can do it! You won’t faint or die :). If you ignore hunger, sip water/tea, get out for a walk, do some of the mind stuff that she talked about in the book, it will pass. Let us know how you do – xx

Good Morning all!! Yes, Jade, I successfully fended off the siren call of carbs and all other forms of food and even slept quite well, which for me is rare after a FD. But sadly the scales this morning failed to record my herculean efforts by staying the same. I’m not daunted though (okay, maybe a tad dissapointed…) as my clothes are so much looser and I can see a difference in my face, so I know next week will see a loss on the drat scale. Despite the disappointment, I even went out and swam a kilometre in the pool, so go me!

I’m so glad too the momentum is going your way Jade, such a good feeling not to have to fight so much, right? I know that I need to use other means of managing those ‘anxious not-sure-this-will-go-well feelings’ that you describe so well and I have to accept that if I chose to do so with food I’ll have to pay the price. Sucks being a grown-up sometimes.

Welcome Mollie and acreage and all the very best with starting 5:2 acreage. Jade’s advice is spot on and you’ll find your own way to manage it all with perseverance and support. I’ve read the BoB book too and found it interesting but didn’t find it worked any magic on me (I’m always looking for magic unfortunately, although my sensible brain knows there is no such thing 😉 ).

Okay, well, I’m not working today and I’m having lunch with two dear friends so I need to do a little long-neglected housework before lunch. Have a great weekend ladies, onward and upward (or possibly downward). Spring xx

Ha, I wouldn’t exactly call what I have “momentum” but…it beats where I was last January.

Hey Mcca, good to hear from you and sorry you’ve been sick! But glad you were still checking in, I knew you were out there. Boy the scales can make me feel like crap even when my clothes still fit the same (the story of my past week, 4 lbs up 4 lbs down, I’d rather have skipped that!). Why not do 5:2 for a bit before you get back on. If your clothes fit or are getting loose, you can tell when it’s time.

Spring, sorry no loss but it will come! You’ve really clobbered 5:2 with those 50 lbs. Anyway, about momentum, I think we all have it, i.e., more control even if it’s maintaining. That takes huge control for this crowd, right? And this time last year I was in a pickle, my usual extra-pudgy self after the holidays, couldn’t jackhammer my way into half my work clothes, very frustrated with the MFP 1200 cal/day thing that was going nowhere because I could just not stand it 24/7. This year I’m back to the weight I was before the holidays, in January. That’s a first, not exactly DOWNWARD momentum, but I’ll take it.
I have to go rest my brain now after watching the US pres debate, egads. Here’s to all you stroppy teenagers 🙂 xxx

This is my third winter Jade. I ate too much soup one winter that put me off for quite some time! On the plus side, you are more food aware, which does allow for different food choices..if you choose to.

I hate January and February. I hate the gloomy grey days and should therefore run, to cheer myself up. But who wants to run in this? I am no athlete and do not have a half or 10K on the horizon, so might just do a walk later..or not. My winter running kit looks so much better this January than last. No one reaches for celery when they feel down, well no one normal.

Well done Jade at being your pre holiday weight. I am still 4 lb heavier but there is still 10 inches/6lb less of me than this time last year, so i am very happy with that. Meal out for my birthday was lovely, fish and chips was huge and delicious. I had a few glasses of wine and then sticky toffee pudding with toffee sauce and ice cream. I haven’t had that for a year, it was lovely to eat but made me a bit shaky, I think I could feel the insulin flooding into my blood!

My plan(after the roast and apple crumble today) is to have a FD tomorrow. The TDEE for 14lb less of me is only 150 calories than my current weight, so i am going to aim for the lower figure on NFD. I am going to see where I am at the end of February and take stock then. Hopefully the elusive pink shorts will be more comfortable and look better and I might be able to get into trousers that are currently not an option for work.

spring, put the scales away and look at how your clothes fit and your body looks. Success is not on the scales but in a decreasing waist measurement(less visceral fat) and an overall shrinkage. We all need subcutaneous fat or we would die, it’s the stuff around the belly that is the alarm call. A man should be less than 37″ and a woman 34″..although some suggest that a waist measurement that is less than half your height is the goal. You can imagine my devastation when I found out that I am an inch shorter than i thought I was and I am already short!

mcca, glad you like the avocado on toast. Just weight the little beauty before as they come in around 160 claories per 100g and with toast they could add up to 5/600 calories or a meal. I eat it as a meal anyway and love it. If you want to beat the sugar addiction it is really very simple, cut it out where ever you can. Ditch the jelly beans and what ever else you eat and swop them for a handful of whole almonds. You will feel much much better. I bake every week and sometimes have some chocolate, but the difference is that I can have a few squares of chocolate and put the rest away for another day now. I had heard of these mythical creatures that could do that and never ever thought that i could be one of them…but I am now. As Lustig says if you don’t believe that you are addicted to sugar, give it up for 24 hours and see how crap you feel. Perhaps now that I have less of the white stuff and know that it makes me want to eat everything in sight, I enjoy it less? I like feeling better, less like an addict looking for my next sugar fix, craving the sweet stuff all the time, hiding sweets around the house, eating in secret, feeling guilty and miserable. You don’t really like the sugar, you just think that you do…you are an addict and if you choose to reduce your current drug, you will see how rubbish it made you feel as the weeks tick by. I had sugar in drinks for over 40 years(gave it up a couple of months ago) loved cakes(still do but don’t want to eat the whole thing in one sitting) enjoyed puddings every day( don’t eat them except for special occasions( they made me feel crap every day for the whole afternoon, I struggled to stay awake) and kept me a little sugar slave with a fat body. The reality was that I didn’t realize how crap i felt with sugar until I had less of it. Try it and see.

I always thought that I was a candidate for a tummy tuck, as I lost weight that fold of fat seemed to be resistant to any changes. I have noticed though that it has gone! I just have 2 small folds at the top of each hip, which I hope will disappear too over this year. My new bras are too lose now, so are on the tightest setting. I think that this is due to less sugar in my diet. When I gave up sugar in my tea and ate more wholefoods, I lost an inch off my waist in 3 weeks(when there had been no change to my waist measurement in a year). Food for thought?

I am just going to miss breakfast and have the lunch that is available at work…and then see what/if there are any calories to play with. I have gone avocado and nut free this week, to help with my resolve.

What ever works Jade.

Hi Bingeingqueen-

I wonder if you’re still here but, if you are, you sound VERY much like me. I can’t eat grains at all. Not even the supposedly “heathy” whole ones. I love them very much but as soon as I have some I become more hungry still. I will, given the opportunity (and some privacy) eat a whole cake or pizza or the oatmeal I made for the whole family. And then want more.

I think that’s why the fasting approach works for me. After a couple days of fasting my appetite is reset at clean. And then if I avoid grains I can eat a sensible lunch and a sensible dinner and not really be left wanting.

I have talked about this alcoholic-like response I have to grains with doctors and dietitians. They dismiss it and have nothing to offer except that I need whole grains in my diet. So I have finally decided to carry on on my own doing what works for my body and my sanity.

Feel free to let me know if I can help or support you in your effort.

Spring I am working hard on getting more downs than ups 🙂 After a perfect nFD yesterday, still up today – but thanks for the pat, it’s good to focus on progress made. Too bad weight can’t be static, once it’s gone it never comes back! Re the scales, I play it by ear – have to be in the mood to handle bad numbers. Lately the numbers haven’t bothered me, but you’re right they can be the kick in the pants I need to stop fooling myself.

Hey Chubster, thanks so much for chiming in! Very interesting, your description of the alcoholic response to grains. So…any and all? Brown rice, quinoa, etc.? That is amazing willpower. I have tried, but without at least whole grains I do feel deprived. At least I conquered my doughnut obsession! I’m happy enough with lean meats and veg on a FD but otherwise the lack of grains leaves me feeling empty and sad. Even if I add in some fruit, I still want the fullness that grains provide. Maybe I’m describing a feeling of withdrawal? I’m curious how long it took you to stop missing them.

Monday FD here for me, like Sisyphus I will push that boulder as long as it takes – and then stop letting the darn thing roll back down, right? xxx

Oh we know that song, “I’m cured” followed by “I can handle this now” – our island national anthem of sorts.

Wow… Chubs you are a champion white-knuckler, and you did it and came out the other end. Thank you for explaining that! No grains at all huh? Wow. And I’m guessing sugar isn’t on the menu either. Nuts? Fruit? Wine? I would probably weigh no pounds if all those things were also gone from my life, but of course I have never done it. 🙂 Well, I’ve fasted without having grains and somehow that felt OK. Hmm, I think I am getting the point.

So do you ever bake with grain-free flours? I am asking for a scientific perspective only – I realize that one can overeat a substitute (it’s how the low-fat craze got us where we are) – but wonder whether you have the same reaction as to wheat. Were you ever tested for allergies? And again, not that one must have some allergic or auto-immune problem to be triggered by grains. I’m just really curious about all the ways appetite is affected. My own experience shifting away from sugar and simple carbs has me fully on that bandwagon.

Thanks for sharing your experiences – I am intrigued. xx

Hey all! Weighing in on the weighing in debate (sorry – weak joke. All I can say is at the end of a successful FD I am not up to much let alone humour)… Dr Mosley’s newest research points towards weighing daily. I know when I do this it keeps me mindful, and when I stop its because I know there will be numbers I don’t want to see. That said I agree totally we all find our way so Annette certainly seems to be winning with her tape measure method. And I have been avoiding the scale got at least a month, so who am I to be advocating the daily weigh in?!?

Anyway I fasted today for the first time in an age and I feel hungry, a bit sick, but happy.

Xx

You know, I should make you aware that I am *very* overweight. Probably at least 60 pounds even after what I’ve already lost. I’m not clear about the actual weight since I don’t use a scale. So it’s possible that the availability of excess body fat is a factor in the lack of hunger or urgency I feel when I’m fasting.

I mean just to explore what could be going on.

Hi LA again:

People that know little about fasting usually think that someone who fasts is always hungry. Nothing could be further from the truth. Your experience of not being hungry is typical and has nothing to do with the amount of your body fat.

While each body is different, and, more importantly, each person’s mental makeup, or willingness to tolerate being hungry for awhile, is different, newbies often report their surprise that they are not hungry when they wake up after a diet day. Hunger comes and goes throughout a diet day for beginners, but after you do it for awhile and the body adapts to being without food for longer periods of time you are rarely hungry (unless you eat some carbs). Long term fasters experience little hunger at the start and virtually no hunger after the third or fourth day when the body finally gets into ketosis.

You are not hungry because your body is happily feasting on the very fat you want to get rid of!

Good Luck!

Quoting mcca: “Anyway I fasted today for the first time in an age and I feel hungry, a bit sick, but happy.”

Would something warm like tea or lemon water or some chicken broth ease the discomfort? Those are my go-to’s.

Chubs I believe you’ve hit on why fasting works for us. It is a cessation from all those foods that, for whatever reason, we overeat. Without that tickle, we may feel hunger but not the nuttiness. Congrats to you on figuring out what works for you and the resolve to follow through. I’m pondering whether to take it on – so far I’m having problems enough eliminating sugar again, after the holidays.

MCCA, you crack me up, weighing in on weighing in. I’ve definitely avoided the scale when I know it’s bad news, but now I’m back to the daily check – somehow I can finally view the number with a saner understanding of fluctuations. Holy heaven last week I went up 4 lbs and down in the span of 3 days. Anyway, hey congrats on your successful FD! Victory dance for you. I’m still toughing mine out here but my coffee is delicious. Right, and my pants are on fire. But still I think I’ll make it through. Gunning for that clean feeling.

Annette, you’ve come so far, and well done, we’re still in the fight which is saying a lot given what we are capable of! Let’s just get back to what works – for me, I have to count cals on nFDs. I have had this ongoing internal battle, angel on one shoulder, devil on the other, but I obviously can’t trust my appetite – yet. I hope with continued efforts to eliminate triggers like sugar, and maybe some grains?, I’ll get there. Wouldn’t that just be lovely. I want us all to have pink shorts! We’ll get there. xxx