Good luck today Lael and thanks for reminding us of the perils of indulgence. It does make the FDs that much harder, doesn’t it? I once took my set of scales to a GP appointment to perform a calibration test!

Merry, thanks for reminding us about that Dr. Mosley documentary. It was called, “Sugar vs. Fat”. I distinctly remember that pink glazed donut ratio. Well worth viewing for anyone considering those chocolate hot x buns.

Regarding the, “Trust me I’m A Doctor” series, I consider it more infotainment than science but it’s always fun if the findings trend the way you want them to go (using their population sample of six). Last night Dr. M showed how you could gain the benefits of exercise while sitting in a deck chair with your eyes closed imagining that you were exercising, by spending an hour reading in a hot bath or having passive ROM performed on your limbs.

Hi Thin, I’ll have to catch up on that episode! I like the sound of the idea of an hour of reading in a hot bath! The thing is that sometimes the episodes, like you said, are short on detail! I’m wondering if the bath water has to remain a certain minimum temperature? I remember when it was shown that by drinking apple cider vinegar in water before eating a bagel prevented a blood sugar spike, but it was never reported exactly the quantity of vinegar to water! Was it a teaspoon, tablespoon or 3?

Lol! I doubt I’d be able to eat just one of those hot cross buns and I admire anyone who is able to pull that off!

Yes, aftermath of yesterdays sugary foods is that I just took my glucose reading. It’s 12:40 pm and I haven’t had a thing to eat since last night. It’s up at 5.4 or 97.2 which is high. I didn’t check it just after getting out of bed, though I’m guessing it was still well over 100 this morning.

———————————————————————————-

Lael on a soap box:

For those interested, optimal fasting glucose is down at 4.7. According to many diabetes websites, fasting readings above 5.6 is considered pre-diabetes.

I guess I’m a bit more black and white and don’t really like the term ‘pre-diabetes’ or ‘borderline diabetes’ because it allows patients to go on thinking all is well. My understanding is ‘pre-diabetes’ is when blood sugar is considered healthy enough not to require medication though is when it becomes evident that things are going pear shaped, so to speak. Unfortunately, it is rare that doctors ever advise patients about how to reverse a ‘pre-diabetes’ condition (as Dr. M. points out).

This is especially meaningful to me. I have family members who have been ‘victims’ of what I consider negligence with regard to the ‘borderline’ diabetes diagnosis. My older brother was diagnosed ‘borderline’ for 10 years in a row at his yearly insurance medical check up (he worked at a US corporation who required). On the tenth year he was told he was ‘borderline’ once again he was suddenly asked to undergo a cardiac stress test right there in the clinic and while on the treadmill, underwent major cardiac arrest right there while the doctor was gabbing on the phone. Great that the doctor saw him collapse and that all the facilities were available and that he wasn’t on the trail in the mountains bush walking, as he’d considered doing the next day which was a ‘Saturday’! However, it was such an intense attack he had to be resuscitated with the electric paddles. Though he survived and now sports multiple stents, he never fully recovered and struggles with fatigue, depression and is relegated to using a motorized cart when out and about. His cardiologist told him point blank that his heart attacks were caused by remaining ‘borderline’ diabetic for 10 years. It was explained that extra sugar floating in the blood is abrasive to the artery walls which causes nicks and tears and an inflamed state of arterial irritation which the body then band aids with patches and layers of cholesterol as a way of soothing. He was only told this after he’d undergone the stent procedure and only by the specialist team. Back when in the danger zone, when he could have taken action to reverse his issue, he was only advised that he was ‘borderline’ and that they would monitor the situation. He simply concluded that they’d let him know if there was a problem.

My dad was told the same thing for many years and he ended up undergoing a 5 bypass open heart procedure back in the old days before stents. Again, he was only advised about diet and exercise after the fact. Unfortunately, my mother heeded the diet and exercised with him, died of cancer and my dad remarried somone who couldn’t be bothered with either the diet or exercise. It wasn’t a surprise that my dad ended up fully insulin dependent and eventually suffered a very debilitating stroke that left him virtually unable to use one side of his body.

These are just two examples in our family. There are more! So if I bang on about blood sugar and diabetes and seem fanatical about my own carb and sugar intake, please understand. I feel teary eyed as I sit here writing about my beloved dad and how I saw his spirit dim after his stroke.

So, in conclusion, I view the term ‘borderline’ diabetes as giving patients a false security, when in fact, for me, after what I’ve witnessed, it is a warning sign, a red flag, a wake up call.

Okay, I’ll step down from my soap box now!

Alarming and interesting reading Lael. Underscores the need to be pro-active with your own medical care. I’m so sorry for your loss. Our health is everything. Yesterday, I mentioned my neighbours, both doctors, both practicing fasting. Another neighbour (70) is ‘pre-diabetic’ with a family history of diabetes and her GP, while admitting that she knows nothing about 5:2, has advised her that it would be ‘contra-indicated’ for her to fast because she is pre-diabetic. I’m not a doctor and wouldn’t ever offer my neighbour medical advice but, looking at her, you can only think that if she just got that excess belly weight off, she’d be in a much stronger position. Instead she heads off to the gym every morning … ho hum …. no change.

I think medicine is adapting to accommodate a population’s unhealthy trends too. For example, one of the questions that confounds me on a medical questionnaire is, ‘how many standard drinks do you consume each week?’. I’m not a teetotaller but sometimes go for weeks without any alcohol. Yet it’s assumed that, if I have a pulse and live in Australia, I must consume a certain amount of alcohol each week.

I felt like saying find another doctor. But even the docs in our street didn’t interfere so I’ve kept my mouth closed too. (I know that might surprise you!). She often comments on how well I’ve done with 5:2 and wishes she could too. Shame she doesn’t have my GP, he knows all about 5:2 and recommends it to his patients.

New to this and struggling with the site. Just posting again cause my last 2 posts are appearing on the uk site instead of this one ?????

New to this and struggling with the site. Just posting again cause my last 2 posts are appearing on the uk site instead of this one ?????in

Hi Gday, welcome. Yes, it reads logically like a book (not Facebook), last post last. When the page is filled it, it starts a new one.

We’re all on the UK site, there’s only one official 5:2 website. This thread was started so that people in the S. Hemisphere can support each other because we’re all in the same time zone – well sort of. You’ll find others from SA on this thread.

See you tomorrow Cinque! I have my FD food all worked out, I just have to decide what to feed the OFMs. Aren’t you lucky!

Good morning everyone, welcome GdayfromSA, took me a while to work out the site as well.
Well, I had another ( extra) FD yesterday. Did my first for the week on Monday but I had to go out yesterday and was only home for lunch so I took the opportunity to have an extra one this week. second FD is my normal on Thursday so that will be 3 this week.
I cheated this morning and weighed myself, happy, happy, happy! Don’t you just love it when the scales go down.
I am not going to weigh myself until Wednesday of next week so I wont be disappointed as I know I weigh less after a FD than what I do after a NFD.
Lael, I have shrunk an inch and a half over the years!
And DO NOT mention Hot Cross Buns, especially the choc chip ones, I put on a pound just reading those words!! lol
Don’t worry about getting on a soapbox, I am the worlds WORST reformed smoker, my daughter is the only one left in my family who smokes. She bought an E-cigarette but she keep buying packets. She says she does not want to put on weight, does not know what to do with her hands if she gave up, and is under so much stress at home, ( of which she exaggerates tremendously) as excuses, plus many more.I told her to just not buy real ones and to use her “fake fag” instead as that is what they are for. She bought the e-cigarette to give up but constantly spouts excuses. I wont stop trying to get her to give up and say ” You can either put on fat ( which a good healthy lifestyle will fix) or you can die of cancer! Choose!
My spout for the day. Sorry all if you are smokers.
I made low fat, low everything Ice-Cream yesterday evening. Counted ALL that went into it and put a spoonful in the tiny round take away pots. Got 12 pots in all and they will be a special treat for a special day as they are still 150 calories each pot.
I feel good today. TaTa for now.

Hi all

Welcome GdayfromSA, I’m from South Aus too. I don’t think there’s many of us.

Well, it was my official monthly weigh in day to day.
I have lost 6.1kg this month.

Now before your chin hits the floor, I should point out that my joint inflammation levels (which means extra fluid around my joints) were appalling at the beginning of January and would be responsible for some of the weight changes. I also know that I always have a massive weight loss in the first week of any diet and then I usually revert to a snail’s crawl pace of weight loss.

I actually checked all my measurements today too. I lost nothing from my bust (not unusual for me), but lost 6cm from my waist and 5cm from my hips.
I have also been keeping knee measurements as it’s a good guide for just how much extra inflammation there is around my joints generally. My right knee is 4cm smaller and my left knee 3 cm smaller than a month ago. This is how I know that a lot of January’s weight change is due to a reduction in joint inflammation.

My guess is that about 1/3 of the loss was actually body fat. But the reduction in inflammation is also very welcome – makes a big difference to how I feel and how active I can be.

I hope you are all having a good day. It’s a NFD for me, fasting tomorrow.
Quite mild weather in Adelaide today so I’m in the mood for soup – I think I’ll make some sweet potato & red lentil soup this afternoon.

Good morning from a newbie living in a currently cool and sunny Perth. Have been lurking around your site for a couple of days, enjoying your informative posts. Have been on 5:2 for about a week and a half. DH is too (but he may not have realised yet).

Does anyone know of a good book or website that lists calories etc for food that’s relevant for Australia. Looked at a lot of the apps available on Google Play and didn’t find anything that I thought was worth getting.

myfitnesspal is really good – get the app on your phone, just about anything with a barcode can be scanned to easily find it in seconds.

GdayfromSA, I use Spark People as a calorie app on my phone. So far I have found all the foods I eat on there but sometimes I have to work out by looking at the product, the quantity/calorie ratio as they just put a serving?
PerthGirl, I love what you said about your DH not knowing what he is eating. That made me laugh.
……………….To ALL…………………………………………….
What channel is the Dr Mosley program on? Plus what is it called as I can’t find it. I went into iview and saw a couple of Trust me I’m a doctor ones but they were not about what Cinque said??? Mind you I did watch a program about a hospital in the UK that caters for obese people, that WAS interesting!
I am about to have my lunch….Aldi Rainbow trout on toast, grilled. My only toast for the week as I have decided that if I can do without bread , which I eat very little of, I will but 1 slice wont hurt every couple of weeks will it!
And that Rainbow trout is just YUM!
Cinque…..what are OFM’s ?
Canberraangle…. I think that loosing cm’s is sometimes more important than loosing the weight as sometimes fat is changed into muscle mass and that is heavier than fat and if you are loosing cm’s it means that you are still loosing weight and that must be good.

Hi Thin, SOR and a non-driver these days, but I travel far and wide on foot, by bike, and public transport so I would love to meet up for coffee sometime.

My (our) FDs are Friday and Sunday as for many years we have eaten home-cooked meals on Saturdays with our ‘somewhat chubby’ best friends who have yet to ‘get’ our portion control messages. Thus, prepare in advance, and recover afterwards seems a natural strategy.

PerthGirl, that’s funny! Great strategy. It happened to be a Sunday when my OH and ran out of excuses not to start 5:2. So, Sunday’s been one of my FDs for 30 months. I grew to like it because it meant we could really only indulge on one of the weekend days. On Fathers’ Day, Xmas Day, etc. I switch to Saturday. My other FD is Wednesday. In in sync with Cinque.

I’m SOR too. The Perth losers I meet for coffee come from far and wide and we usually meet either in Fremantle or South Perth. Would either of those locations be convenient for you to get to? I’m hoping to meet Chatelaine soon so perhaps we can make something happen. Her FDs are M, Th so that leaves only Tuesday – a day I’m usually unavailable but I am free next Tuesday.

Hi All, Unfortunately, I don’t have time to answer all the interesting posts, and have only been skimming them!

Vaderz I appreciate your understanding about my soap box! I agree there could be other factors with regard to Thin’s neighbor not being suited to fasting, however, the doctor did specify that it was because she was pre-diabetic, not diabetic. Diabetics don’t do well with fasting because they are required to take insulin and gauging around a longer than usual fasting state can be tricky. …Not that it is impossible, because I’ve read posts by diabetics who are insulin dependent, on this forum to dedicate themselves to pulling it off successfully, but it takes a lot of effort and commitment, more than doctors expect their patients to harbor!

I admit I’m a medical skeptic! I guess if I were to truly want to give the said doctor the benefit of the doubt, I’d at least expect that doctor to alternatively suggest what SusannahD is practicing, which is the Blood Sugar Diet. Surely, one would think every doctor whose patients have pre-diabetes would be referring them or even hosting Blood Sugar Diet programs to help them. I wonder if the patient was even educated at all about how to manage their blood sugar levels in this instance? I’d be curious to know. …My friend who served me morning tea lives with her elderly mother. As we were sitting and eating the gluten free Tim Tams and Mint Slices, her mother saw me look at her right hand that was missing a middle finger and in response said that it was amputated due to an infection that just wouldn’t heal. Later in the conversation my friend explained that her mother is borderline diabetic and isn’t it good that she isn’t full blown diabetic because this means she doesn’t have to restrict herself and can eat anything. Okay, stepping down from soap box again!

Cinque, how wonderful to have an angel visit to help around the house and that she truly noted changes in your shape! Maybe you gained a bit of muscle and shed a bit of fat in the interim?! I remember you mentioning that even in maintenance, our body composition improves! …Which reminds me, I ran out of inulin, didn’t replenish supply, so can’t really give it a review either way! At the same time I measure my belly and it has flattened some while I’ve been in maintenance, so maybe as we continue, we keep shedding visceral?

On another note, I got the job. It is casual, thank goodness, since I’ll be resuming full time study in a week! I’m hoping I can juggle this part time position, TAFE studies and the occasional shift at the health food shop that I so love! Hoping to keep all the balls I’ll be juggling, up in the air!

Lastly, yesterday’s fast was such a wonderful gift! All the weight I gained from that afternoon binge the other day has pretty much been cleansed from my system. My weight is back just about to my all time low and my fasting glucose was considerably lower than yesterday, maybe not optimal but at least well under 100! Thank you Dr. Mosley and to everyone in this forum for your support!

Hi all

Lael – well done getting the job, that’s wonderful news.

Thinatlast – Your description of your knees sounded just like mine (mine are ugly and lumpy and never shown in public if I can help it). I basically measure the largest bit, which for me is the top half of the knee, just above where it bends. I always measure standing up, because the puffiest bit is really easy to see when standing.

Just a note about the various calorie counting apps etc – make sure they aren’t configured to US measurements as 1 tablespoon or 1 cup in the US is a smaller volume than it is in Australia, so you could easily underestimate your calorie intake. (You can safely use the US calorie tools providing you measure by weight not volume.) I only use online counters and where possible I use Nuttab. http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/science/monitoringnutrients/nutrientables/nuttab/Pages/default.aspx This is the tool that my dietitian recommended as it is the data that the diet analysis software that dietitians use is based on (I believe that most of the values came from CSIRO and it has an exhaustive analysis of all micro nutrients.) I use the details on the packet first (if it has packagaing), if not I go to Nuttab and if neither of those options work I go to the Calorie King website. I don’t track food on a smart phone so these tools work for me as I prefer to plan menus and track food on my laptop – I realise this wouldn’t work for everyone. I’m retied and home a lot so I don’t really need a mobile tool for this.

Canberraangel & Thinatlast – glad to hear you’ve found ways of delaying/avoiding knee replacements. My issue wasn’t missing cartilage but other joint damage from rheumatoid arthritis. I managed to delay the surgery for 7 years after it was first recommended, but my immobility became so bad that a TKR became my only viable option. I was worried about how long an artificial joint lasts, particularly as I was told I needed the surgery when still in my 40s. Delaying surgery gave me a chance to get my weight down before surgery, which made the rehab process more successful and should give the artificial joint a longer life span. I haven’t regretted eventually having the surgery – I went from not even being able to safely walk down my own driveway to being able to go for an hour walk in a hilly area, ride an exercise bike, and garden – things I hadn’t been able to do for years. For me it was the right choice at the right time.

Lael – Cottage cheese made the traditional way will always be non-fat because it’s not made from whole milk. It is traditionally made from the whey left from the butter making process. All of the fat that was in the cream will be in the butter, so what’s left is a non-fat whey product. If you’ve found a full fat cottage cheese then they are either stirring cream through cottage cheese to increase the fat level, or they are using a non-traditional process to make it. You can make soft curd cheese from whole milk, but they are not true “cottage cheese”.
I know many people choose full fat dairy. I do usually choose reduced fat dairy, but I only buy plain unflavoured products. For me it’s a compromise between the calories I can afford and the taste I like – for me that means reduced fat rather than full-fat or skim. My dietitian said that the diary requirement for women over 50 is 4 serves per day, that’s a lot of calories and I needed to make some calorie compromises to even get close to that much dairy in my day. Added sugar is largely a problem with flavoured dairy products (like fruit yoghurts), which have absurd amounts of added sugar. If I want fruit yoghurt I mix reduced fat natural greek yoghurt with either chopped fresh fruit, or fruit that I have cooked or pureed.

Have a good evening all – final meal for me before FD tomorrow.

PerthGirl, great! I’ll send JJ, the site administrator, a request to give you my email address.

Lael, yay! Congratulations, wow, your first formal interview in almost 40 years and you nailed it!

Lael and LJ – is there anything you ladies don’t know? Very interesting reading thank you. That makes sense about the way cottage cheese is made. Lael, yes it was a different brand (dark blue lid) for the FF, Coles brand for the LF.

LJ, great that you’ve derived so much relief & mobility from your TKR – just one knee? How long has it lasted to date? I measured where you said and there’s only 1.5cm difference between the two. I wish I had a baseline. They’re both dodgy but the right is much worse – with my particular condition, I find it strange that they wouldn’t degenerate at exactly the same rate. I had bilateral arthroscopic chondroplasty over 20 yrs ago and then a right patella realignment 10 yrs ago. Managed since then with strengthening exercises and Melrose Deep Sea Fish Oil (not capsules) which some claim is a placebo but has worked perfectly for me (put to the test whenever I go overseas because it’s too messy and bulky to take and, without fail, after 2 weeks on a capsule alternative, I start to get pain).

So Cinque, have you got that email sorted out? Did you have a good FD? I’ve had a busy day and barely noticed it was a FD.

Hi Thinatlast. Yes I only had one knee replacement done (R). I had it done in May 2015, not quite 2 years ago. When I weighed 127kg the orthopaedic surgeon said that the left knee was getting close to needing surgery too. Since I’ve lost weight and have better muscle tone he’s changed his tune. He said that if I can maintain my current weight and fitness it should be many years before I need the left knee replaced (unless the RA flares up and does more damage). I was really pleased to hear this – it give me further motivation to maintain my health and fitness (modest as it is). At the moment both of my knees are roughly the same size (sometime 0.5-1 cm diff.) – in the first 9 months after surgery the right knee (and in fact the entire right thigh) was up to 12cm larger than the left. I now measure, not to compare L to R knee, but each knee over time so I can see if the inflammation level in a particular joint is increasing or decreasing (in part this is also to help me judge how worried I need to be about small weight gains). I can see the same changes in inflammation in other joints but I find the knees easiest to measure, I use them as my inflammation guide.
I have also had surgeries on both my shoulders and both my wrists (because of the arthritis damage), but I still have my original joints there – those surgeries were in 2006 and I have excellent mobility still (I started a pool based hydrotherapy program after these surgeries and continued it for 10 years – it really helped my upper body flexibility).

A further note on the cheese question – ricotta is similar to cottage, traditionally it was a byproduct of the mozzarella process – so it too is made from whey and would have originally always been low fat (unless enriched by adding full cream milk before the rennet). These cheeses date from an era when many people had very small mixed family farms and were largely self sufficient. Soft fresh cheeses like cottage and ricotta allowed farmers to make the most of the milk from their cow and not waste anything – it also gave them a fresh cheese to use while they were waiting for the hard cheese to mature. I’ve tried my hand at some cheese making (there’s a place in Hahndorf where you can take classes), but the only one I regularly make at home is paneer (Indian fresh milk cheese), as all I need to make it is milk, lemon juice and a saucepan. If I have a lot of milk close to it’s useby date it saves it going to waste and I love Indian food so it’s very useful.

Darn! The columns didn’t remained aligned after pressing ‘submit’ so not as easy to read and compare. Oh well!

Hi LJ, I loved reading of your family background! The image of the three kids per horse, is a wonderful one, even if it might not have been so comfortable for them! The thought of riding along a dirt road on a horse to school brings me feelings of country romance! …Good on your family for making their way on the land!

Also congratulations on the stellar result! …And your inflammation is lower so a wonderful outcome all around!

OMG !
Wednesday 8th Feb at Aldi
Special on HOT CROSS BUNS….
ARGGGGG I am going to have to stay indoors that day!
LOLOLOL

Hi all, ages since I’ve been on this site, so much to catch up on. I’ve been away, I look after other people’s motels when they want time off. It’s good work, gets me off my couch, I meet new people, and earn some money for a while. It also gets me out of my kitchen and away from my fridge. Lost 1.5 kgs over the 8 days. Funny thing though, my first meal back had me vomiting in the back yard, too calorie rich I think. I had been living on mostly salads.
I had blood tests a couple of weeks ago, very disappointing results, does having blood tests while in the fasted state, skew the results? After 3 months on 5.2, and having lost 12 kgs, there is no noticeable change.
Lynn

Happy Friday everyone, I’m super happy this morning i must say. Blood test results were all within the normal healthy range. B12 just slightly down and Electrolytes just slightly up.
Plus im wearing a skirt that i bought 3-4 years ago but never wore as it was too snug.
Joined the local weight watchers group last night to get some extra support.
Enjoy your day.

Hi LJoyce

I have been maintaining for 2.5 years and I need to continue with 5:2 forever to maintain my weight loss. I truly think that we require so little to eat once we are over 60 years of age, and once we reach goal weight. I can get away with 6:1 for about 3-4 weeks. After that I gradually put on weight.

If I eat any bread, rice or pasta or have a beer more than 4 times a week, then I put on some weight. Effectively, doing 5:2 permits me to eat a little of whatever I fancy. I stopped losing weight as soon as I reached goal. I do not look gaunt, and I was never in danger of that. I gained a waist through doing 5:2, and that is the first thing to go, if I overindulge in any form of white carbs.

Hope this helps. Cheers, Bay