Hi,

The unfortunate truth is that we need to change our eating habits in order to keep off excess weight. It stands to reason that if obesity is caused by eating too much we need to stop doing so in order to remain at a healthy weight once we have lost the excess and the less one weighs the fewer calories are needed to sustain the body.
It is also a fact that the majority of people on any weight loss diet regain all the weight and more and that is because they go back to their old eating habits.

I’ve been overweight and a yo-yo dieter for most of my adult life and have lost a huge amount of weight with 5:2 and my goal weight is in sight. I am working hard to banish my bad habits. I live to eat but I recognise that in order to be at a healthy weight I have to exercise portion control and not eat more than I need every day. That involves having cake for lunch rather than in addition to it, choosing between wine and dessert etc. I’ll still be eating whatever I fancy but not all of it every day. I also know I shall be fasting for the rest of my life in order to maintain my weight and I am happier doing that than being constantly miserable in an obese body.

I hope you are able to get back to fasting and lose the weight, but you’ll have to make sacrifices.

I saw a BBC documentary about diets a couple years ago. They said something like 88% of people who lose weight gain it all back and more within 5 years. This is mainly because after the goal is reached they go back into their old eating habits, which is what got them overweight in the first place. I know this all too well from personal experience.

As Amazon said, the only way to keep the weight off after you’ve lost it is to change your eating habits. For me, I lost about 65 pounds a couple years ago by counting calories with the aid of an iPhone app. I knew that counting calories for every meal wasn’t something I could do long term so I’m now doing 5:2 to maintain my weight. Counting calories 2 days a week is doable for me.

I don’t have the magic answer for you, but would like to wish you success in however you decide to lose the weight. I’m sure many of us here ave been in your position more than once; I know I have.

Bronx

100% agree with Happynow…you need to be absolutely honest with yourself about how much you are eating. Keep a food diary for a week or two to see what you’re eating.

Willpower is not an endless resource, agreed, but if losing weight will make you happy why is it such an effort?

Personally I think you have to revisit your motivations, think about where you want to get to and how that will feel.

Mopo,

I thought you wanted to understand the reasons why you had gained weight after stopping 5:2. The likeliest reason is that you are consuming more calories than your body needs. It is possible to eat healthily and still overeat!

5:2 is like any other diet. It works for weight loss, but you’ll put weight back on if you stop and have not changed habits.

Plenty of people are now fasting once or twice a week for life, and don’t think they’ve made an ‘unrealistic promise’ to do so. However, if you read my post you’ll see that I don’t need to fast that frequently to maintain my weight, so no, making an ‘unrealistic promise’ to fast once or twice a week isn’t the only way intermittent fasting can be effective. What is effective is making a commitment (a realistic promise) to not consume more than my body needs.

As I say, I don’t know about fasting/ cortisol/ metabolism.

I did read an interesting story though a while ago about gut flora, and stool transplants leading to weight gain:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-31168511

So if you honestly aren’t overeating, and can’t stop yourself from gaining weight, maybe your gut flora are to blame.

Anyway, I’m not medically trained, so I can’t add anything further to this thread. But really, before going in search of excuses, I’d be asking why I can’t commit to something as simple as eating a bit less once in a while…

Good luck finding the answers you ‘want’.

Hi Moto

I think I get your point.

I’m not a scientist but I have read cortisol can affect weight regulation. Actually I have read that fasting affects cortisol in a positive way, in that it aids weight loss. Intensive exercise affects cortisol in the same way. I don’t know if there have been tests on how fasting affects the metabolism. It may well be it does, but perhap&s the picture is not so complicated.

I can’t answer the first question, but logically you can’t put on weight if you don’t overeat. If there has been a change in metabolism, and 5:2 and changed our metabolism, the result would be – and indeed may be – we need less food after reducing to our goal weight than we did when we were previously at that weight. BUT, other factors will have changed. We would be older, perhaps many years older. And the last time we were at this target weight we were almost certainly eating more than we needed, hence weight gain.

So no study will give you a definitive answer, because you now can’t compare yourself at target weight with yourself at that weight the previous time you were there. And you can’t compare yourself with anyone else.

I hope that makes sense.

Your second question, is the only way 5:2 can be effective at weight losss …….

That’s easy, No.

5:2 is merely a tool, a format to organize weight loss and weight maintenance. (Of course, discussing 5:2 for weight loss only, not health benefits).

The simple theory is if you eat under TDEE every day and a quarter of TDEE twice a week, you will eat 20% less than you need. If you choose to eat to either an interim or a final target, you will lose more weight, until you reach that target. If you reach target and continue 5:2 you will lose more weight, as you will STILL be eating 80% of your TDEE in a week.

A calorie control diet of 80% of your TDEE will achieve the same weight loss – how it would affect metabolism and cortisol compared to 5:2 I can’t answer – another way would be to fast completely for 6 days a month, consecutively or split.

And yes, you can stay there by being active and eating healthily. You could stay there eating badly and not exercising, come to think of it. And you can stay that way for life.

The ONLY thing you HAVE to do is work out your TDEE and ALWAYS eat below it. Either every single day, or average over a period of time. Studies may be done to show metabolism and cortisol have had a effect, so fasting may increase or decrease that TDEE compared to what it would be under another weight loss regime.

It’s an interesting point. If one fasts to get to targets weight, would TDEE, the number of calories needed to remain at target weight, be a different total number than if weight loss was by another method? Will our girlfriends on weight watchers have a higher TDEE at target? I don’t know.

I think though all TDEEs would be very low, and that’s the very hard part, not eating over TDEE – hence ALL diets can fail. They can – and most often do fail – because people ‘stop’ dieting and overeat, healthy overeating has the same effect as unhealthy overeating – fat is stored and weight goes back on.

5:2 after weight loss is simply a coping strategy to prevent failure, for occasions you go over TDEE, Happy uses it for the times life takes over and she eats a little more than TDEE, but she has other coping strategies which she has explained, those keep her within her TDEE most of the time, 5:2 is for when life intervenes, a big meal out, an extra glass of wine. Critically, Happy’s strategies are on going, simply for life. Happy has had her lightbulb moment, that she needed a strategy and has worked one out, and for the rest of us, we can follow her light instead of clambering around in the dark trying to figure it out. What a lovely analogy!!!**

For some, a weekly day or two of fasting means that they can eat more than TDEE most days, a bit like an overdraft, bank 2000 calories by fasting for two days, draw them back out for the extra glass of wine, for a big meal, for life’s stresses or simply because eating under TDEE for the rest of your life is a step to far.

So 5:2 is a very useful tool in weight management. But it is a hard discipline and it is for life. And at the end of the day, for most it is about eating really very little food, for the rest of our lives, or its about becoming more active and raising TDEE, but that is for life as well.

However you cut the cake, if your TDEE is around 1300 – I estimate that is my TDEE at my target weight, it’s a small cake – and as you age it will become even smaller.

Hi Happy

part of the problem is that the numbers don’t always stack up – but contrarily, they do! I’ve spent 2 weeks doing 2:5 – my halo was blinding it was so well polished, didn’t lose a gram – then went totally off the reservation on a break, ate whatever I wanted, no fast days, got back – I hadn’t put on an ounce.

And strangely it all makes sense – I think my comment after no weight loss that my fat was hanging on for dear life was actually not far off the mark. I assume that over the three weeks I ate exactly what I needed to do to maintain my weight. In which case perhaps the reality of having to eat less for life isn’t so bad as we think! Gives us a a wee bit of hope. We just need to bank a load of calories before contemplating having time off plan!

As for being frustrated, Mopo, I’m printing the tee shirts at the moment!!!!

Thanks Sim

I think there is a zone and I’m finally in it – I wasn’t at all phased when the weight stayed put, the point of the 2:5 was to ‘bank’ some calories – so many foods in Denmark are covered in mayo, its the home of Carlsberg and of course there is the Danish pastry – a good job I don’t eat cheese or there would be not hope for me!

And though I ate more, I would hazard a guess that I was still counting – so whilst I happily went off the reservation, the totem pole was still in sight. And there was a LOT of walking involved!

Did think there might be a little weight gain, but my clothes were fitting and I felt good so was only expecting a slight increase, but no gain at all was nice.

Glad you are here though, we need someone to keep pointing it out its all about staying the course! Thank you!!!!

I think it’s this one

http://www.zonediet.com/blog/harvard-explains-people-regain-weight-atkins-diet/

Having read it IMO it is full of holes. It does not state whether patients in the second phase of the study (preparing meals on their own)were sticking to the plan or over eating, and more importantly whether T3 and cortisol levels remain raised after the participants are no longer following the diet and whether they returned to their old eating habits. My guess is they did as Atkins is very difficcult to sustain long term, and we all know that eating lots of processed carbs results in a spare tyre round the middle.

The Zone Diet which is what Atkins was compared to is touted as an anti inflammatory diet, and the author works for the Inflammation Research Foundation.

I’ll add that I worked in health care for forty years and have read a lot of such studies. In doing so I’ve learned that you have to look at what isn’t mentioned, often because the research is flawed or the study did not give the results that were hoped for/expected.

You’re welcome. Studies of that type irritate me immensely as they can be very misleading. The other glaring omission thing was the number of participants. It could be 4, 40 or 400 and that would have a huge bearing on the accuracy and relevance of the results.

I followed Atkins over twenty years ago and had great success, but it was impossible to sustain and I went back to my old (over)eating habits and regained the weight lost plus more which until I found 5:2 is the story of my life.
IMO the medical profession have never forgiven Atkins for proving them all wrong.

I meant to give you this link to another study re energy expenditure (aka metabolism) not adversely affected by low carb diet. It’s a bit heavy reading in places but is a much better study than the Harvard one.

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1199154

Helen x