Day 19 Stevensville Maryland USA

FD @dykask I am in the same boat, feeling great with my weight loss but really need to lose a few more inches in the belly, all of my fat lingers there. I have planned my FD to be OMAD, so for lunch it will be bone broth I made over the weekend and lots of tea and water. One thing this WOL had taught me is, I now know when I am dehydrated and drinking at least 2.5 liters of water a day makes me feel so energetic. Look forward to the warm weather this week and hope to get out and walk with the pups.

In a world where you can be anything, be kind and have a great day everyone. Thanks for sharing today, as I needed this to start my day. 🙂

Day 19 Stevensville Maryland USA FD

@coda and @basyjames,

oops on the copy and paste, I am at work and didn’t get back in time to edit.

In a world where you can be anything, be kind.

Day 19 USA (Illinois) NFD

Did my best to eat right at TDEE yesterday. Sometimes MyFitnessPal gives so many options of calories for homemade items, it can be hard to guestimate calories.

Morning Glory … well thanks @coda for the Urban Dictionary definition. Aha… not exactly my muffin recipe! Funny to finally see what you’re laughing about!

@dykask & @daffodil2010 – I think much of my middle muddle is extra SKIN that will never dissipate at my age (69) so I just have to deal with it.
@diana123 – my middle fat really began approaching menopause which I have read now is very typical.

@toddybear – hugs to you as you tackle life. Your experiences of losing so many family members in such a short span must have been devastating. Yes, isn’t it wonderful how this group almost becomes family for us?

Onward and downward.

Day 19 fD 800/500? Oregon USA

Well I think we may need to start pocket lists for the weekends!! I definitely need a reset or really just a full embrace of monitoring TDEE on weekends that I don’t think I have ever been properly doing.

My goal for the week is complete compliance for the week–UNTIL NEXT MONDAY!!

Adding myself to the pocket list for the day.
*************””””*
@snowflake56
@daffodil2010
@stevetoontaxidriver
@strawberriesandcream
@michelinme
@debster251
@coda
@emma-taylor
@basyjames
@mjrbcd44

Day 19, Surrey (UK), FD

I think the rate of loss may be slowing now. Have been expecting this. Never mind, I intend to keep on keeping on!

I have spent some time reading back posts on this forum, mainly to try to understand WHY this WOE works, both for weight loss and longer-term health benefits. Is it because it’s a clever way of restricting calories? Or are there SOME benefits to ‘fasting’ for short periods (however that is defined) that have some additional effect besides restricting calories? For example, take insulin reduction. Does the act of ‘fasting’ for short periods of time cause a reduction of insulin, which results in weight loss? Or is it the weight loss causing the reduction in insulin? How could one possibly devise a study that clearly distinguishes cause and effect? I’ve read the Jason Fung and Valter Longo books as well as Dr MM’s but I probably need to re-read them.

This might be a question for a different thread. There might be more recent research that will help shed some light on this. Any comments welcome!

2nd post

Am I glad I checked in so early this morning, if I hadn’t I wouldn’t have done a FD. It was the hardest one I ever had, grumpy, cold and hungry all day, only the thought of you all on the pocket list kept me away from everything edible at work (read sweets here). Made it until now, had a small bowl of chicken soup and yoghurt with berries. Heading to bed now to finish “The Bookshop”, slightly boring, hope the movie will be better.

@strawberriesandcream thanks for the much needed hugs!

@at my DH is also struggling with the system (who isn’t, it seems to be the same in every country), working only a few times a month, he only has to deal with the company he’s working for than and avoids the problems he’s having now.

Take care everyone!

Day 19 North Wales FD

Adding myself to the pocket list for today.

@snowflake56
@daffodil2010
@stevetoontaxidriver
@strawberriesandcream
@michelinme
@debster251
@coda
@emma-taylor
@basyjames
@mjrbcd44
@jaifaim
@molij

Hi Fingers:

Your confusion is understandable. Comparing 5:2 with Fung with Longo is like comparing apples to oranges to plums.

In addition, you have to understand the word ‘fast’ has many meanings and you need to understand these to understand some of the differences between the three approaches. In its broadest meaning, fast means any reduction in food or drink for any amount of time – even measured in hours. But the clinical (and typical) meaning of ‘fast’ is quite different. The clinical meaning is how long must you go without food or calories from drink in order to gain some medical and health benefits (and how do you define the term ‘benefit’)? People on this site and others often proclaim, believe or hope that their fasting programs (whatever they are) will lead to ‘other health benefits’ – just because they are ‘fasting’. Unfortunately, there is little proof to support most of the programs.

Starting with 5:2, it is simply a calorie based weight loss diet. You can eat all seven days of the week, but you cut your caloric intake by eating less on two of the seven days, thus giving 5:2 a claim to be a ‘fasting’ diet. Because of the calorie reduction, you lose weight. As 5:2 is calorie based, you can eat any foods you want on 5:2, and this is one of its wonderful attributes. While some (many?) on this site will tell you what foods to eat for 5:2 to work, or for the best possible results, the fact is that it works well regardless of your food choices, especially at the start. This makes it much easier for newbies to adopt because they don’t have to make two major lifestyle changes at once – their eating pattern and their food choices. It is hard enough to change their eating pattern to 5:2 without overlaying a ‘lets just change everything you eat, too’ attitude. The two calorie restricted diet days have an additional benefit (function) of teaching about hunger, that you can go without eating for awhile and not die, and they almost always, if continued, will result in your changing your diet for the better – however you personally define ‘better’. Finally, the diet days introduce people to not eating for awhile, thus into the world of ‘real’ fasting, which they can explore or not.

5:2 was ‘created’ by Michelle Harvie, a research scientist at the University of Manchester. Her research into weight loss and breast cancer led her to do a clinical study on her 5:2 plan using women as subjects and the Mediterranean diet for the food choices. The study, published in October, 2010, concluded that 5:2 combined with the Mediterranean diet was a safe and effective weight loss diet. Dr. Mosley popularized the diet with his book (although I can’t remember if he gave Dr. Harvie any credit). Interestingly, though, the book came from his TV program on longevity, and in the book he referred to studies, Longo’s included, that suggested ‘fasting’ had life extension potential, including protection from various diseases including heart disease, cancer, diabetes and Alzheimer’s. Given the name of the book and the broad meaning of the term ‘fasting’, many jumped to the conclusion that 5:2 could potentially provide many health benefits in addition to those that normally accompany weight loss (such as lower blood pressure and better cholesterol and triglyceride levels).

However, there is no proof that 5:2 brings with it any of those potential ‘other health benefits’ of fasting. That is because the foods you eat are critical to the medical results gained (if any), and 5:2 allows you to eat any foods you want. It would be simply impossible to launch longer term studies on whether or not 5:2 provided benefits other than weight loss because, given an infinite number of possible diets, any individual study could only speak to 5:2 plus the diet selected, and then you would still have the question of how many of the benefits (if any) resulted from 5:2, and how many resulted from the chosen diet?

So if your interest is to gain benefits from ‘fasting’ over and above those derived from weight loss, 5:2 is not your answer. But the benefits derived from weight loss are tremendous, and should not be discounted. It depends on what you are after. I personally think that 5:2 is one of the top weight loss diets on the market.

Dr. Fung comes from a different place – he set out to cure diabetes. Cure is probably a strong word, as once you get rid of it the diabetes will come back if you revert to your former diet. So any ‘cure’ includes permanently changing your diet. I will use the term ‘reverse’ instead of cure.

Diabetes has been reversed for decades. It has long been known that long term water fasting (measured in weeks, depending on severity) followed by implementing a plant based diet successfully reverses diabetes. Also, Dr. Atkins of Atkins Diet fame reported reversing the diabetes of a large number of his diabetic patients using his original LCHF diet. But long term water fasting is unrealistic for most, and using the LCHF diet takes up to a year to reverse the disease, depending on severity, and is difficult to follow long term. There are also some long term downsides to the diet, especially if it includes much protein.

Dr. Fung came up with the idea to combine fasting with the LCHF diet to accomplish the reversal in a shorter period of time while still having a program that could be followed by a large number of people. As he was focused on diabetes, he was focused on insulin. He recognized that to break the body’s insulin resistance you need to reduce the amount of insulin in the body, and that fasting was one way to do that.

He came up with a program that often starts with a seven day water fast, followed by using alternate day fasting. On fasting days, the person often drinks bone broth. On non fasting days, they eat a LCHF diet. The purpose is to reduce insulin levels to the lowest level possible on fasting days, and not to cause insulin spikes on non diet days. An obvious side effect of this type of program is weight loss, although weight loss is not the reason for the diabetes reversal – it is the lowering of insulin levels.

So on this site when you run into a Fung follower, they will view their diet and their eating pattern in light of the impact on insulin levels. This is fine if you are pre-diabetic or have diabetes, but otherwise not necessary to worry about if you don’t have diabetes concerns and your goal is just to lose weight. And if you follow 5:2 long enough, your diet will probably evolve into a lower processed carb diet that will prevent diabetes over the long term anyway.

Dr. Longo makes no bones about his diet – it is a longevity diet. He claims that if you follow it you will prevent many diseases, including cancer (of almost all types), heart disease, diabetes, autoimmune diseases like MS and Alzheimer’s. All of the things many come to 5:2 to prevent. In addition, he claims that following the diet may cure or assist in the cure of many of those diseases.

The difference is he has proof. In short, it appears the body can prevent and cure many diseases if it is allowed to fast for extended periods of time every once in awhile. He has settled on a minimum five day fast using the fasting mimicking diet he created because people wouldn’t do a five day water fast. Combined with the periodic fast is a food diet that is similar to but more strict than the Mediterranean diet. There is a thread on this site that follows this diet. https://thefastdiet.co.uk/forums/topic/52-and-the-longevity-diet/

However, for many, fasting for five consecutive days each month is not a reasonable way to lose weight. On Longo’s diet, how often you fast depends on your physical condition and goals. So it ranges from once a year to once a month. But you follow the food portion of the diet at all times.

He concedes that the five days of fasting is the key to the ‘other health benefits’ caused by the diet and that people with the worst diets and worst physical problems will benefit most from the fasting. He also has more than enough proof that actual fasting for a period of hours, or even a couple of days, provides no ‘other health benefits’. So if your looking to prevent Alzheimer’s, etc., 5:2 or 16:8 or the Fung program won’t do much for you.

If you want to lose weight faster than you might on Longo’s diet, you can combine it with 5:2, as some on this site already have. You can do five day fasts when possible to help with ‘other health benefits’, and 5:2 the rest of the time for weight loss or maintenance.

It is all your choice.

Good Luck!

Day 19, Guildford UK, FD

Great day fasting. Ate lots of veg and small piece of Salmon.

V

Day 19 – in Lima, Peru usually from SW WA USA NFD

Enjoying a cup of Peruvian coffee & cacao in a sidewalk cafe on a pleasant Summer evening. Feet and knee a little tired but faired all right after a walking tour through some phenomenal architecture in Lima. My son and I added a walk to the ocean that wasn’t so Pacific today. I wanted to get my feet wet but a wave very unceremoniously got the whole back of me wet. Oh we laughed so hard as did a new Peruvian friend on the beach. Now to get rested & head to Cisco tomorrow. Thanks for the well wishes. Will change up the footwear tomorrow.

Day 19, Norway, FD
Day 20, Norway, NFD

Day 20 -Reading UK NFD
I had a positive FD yesterday and hoping to exercise control today. Still getting used to pocket lists and the rest … 🙂

Day 20, Leeds, UK, NFD
Starting weight – 82kgs (Jan last week)
Weight as of today – 76.6kgs (Down 900gms from yesterday)

Had a super Fasting day yesterday, only hot liquids all day with couple of biscuits, oranges and bananas. Today is NFD with two hours of badminton in the evening, so the weight should be in control i hope 🙂
Arms and legs look like slimming down, but i hate the tummy area 🙁
Especially the love handles(it should be called hate handles), any tips to get rid of them along with abs trim?

Have a good day everyone, slow and steady, we should be able to achieve the goals!!

Day 20, London, UK, FD (1st of B2B2B)

Well beyond TDEE yesterday with M&Ms and a 3 course meal with wine!!!! Anyway it was a NFD so no guilt as I enjoyed all of it and although I didn’t stuff myself to the point of discomfort, some things are just complete calorie bombs!!!!!!!

Sending you lots of hugs @toddybear, I can’t even imagine!!!

@nesslock2018, I suppose if you think of 5:2 as a diet that has an ending, then you revert to the diet you had before, which made you gain weight, then the answer is probably yes, you will gain weight when you stop ‘dieting’, maybe consider this WOE a lifestyle choice for the rest of your life, and put your mind at ease without stressing about ‘what happens next’.

Don’t get me started on the unfairness of life…………………… weight loss is great except, the tummy will not budge and the ‘girls’ fled the building on day 1, it’s so frustrating!!!!!!!

Way to go!!!! @bigviking, that’s what I call success!!!!!

Happy fasting everyone!!!

Day 20, Gozo Malta, fd

I stepped on scales and I’m 67.4 kilos after a fast day yesterday which run more into a 900 calories. I must stop weighing myself so frequently.

Another fast day today.

Have a great Tuesday everyone. Onwards and downwards.

Day 20 – Japan – NFD 81.9 kg

Weight going back down …

@daffodil2010 & @songbirdme – It is good to know I’m not the only one struggling with a bit in the middle! Mine is a bit more than just skin since the skin in the middle is a little over 1 cm thick in places, so I still have some fat behind that skin. I have lost enough though were I’m starting to notice some loose skin.

Just to confuse issue for some … I don’t consider the way I do 5:2 as calorie restrictive. I typically water fast for two 36 hour+ periods a week. However I eat 2500 to 3500 calories on NFDs. My weight loss is slow but I’m trying to replace fat with muscle. I don’t consider it calorie restrictive because I’m typically eating around 15000 calories a week compared to less than 14000 when I did try do calorie restriction. The main problem I have with calorie restriction is I tend to lose lean muscle mass and that isn’t what I want.

I know I could cut the fat much faster by fasting and starving. At least it would likely work for a few months. However I don’t think it is necessary. Over the last 5 years I’ve moved from 106+ kg to my current weight and now I’m much stronger and leaner.

10+ years ago I got good results with calorie restriction. However as I’m approaching 60, I find my body just doesn’t work that way. That being said I’ve noticed my appetite has gone down some, so now I’m naturally starting to eat less. As long as I can continue to gain muscle, I’m okay with that.

Day 20…..Florida…..FD

Headed back to work after a beautiful 3day weekend……
I’ve got to find away to have more control on my days off!

Currently, I’ve become a yo-yo, two lbs up…..two lbs down! Not good!

I talk a lot of smack for someone who tips over while trying to put on their underwear!

Day 20 – UK – FD

Thank you for kind thoughts and hugs – much needed! A huge donation to the charity shop this morning made things feel very much more positive!

I had a reasonable NFD yesterday until I managed to squirrel out the last piece of stollen from Christmas which had been buried deep in the freezer – not any more! Well it was a tidying day after all!!

Pocket list Day 20 – copy and paste if you are fasting. Together we are stronger.

@daffodil2010
@toddybear

Day 20, Surrey (UK), NFD

Ooops – just lost a post!

@simcoeluv – thank you so much for your comprehensive reply to my musings. You have given me much to think about! I will reply more fully in due course, but probably on a different thread (apologies for hi-jacking this one).

@dykask – interesting that you now seem to be following 5:2 for reasons other than weight loss – or so it seems. I’d be interested to hear more about what benefits you continue to get, or hope to get, by staying on the programme.

@toddybear – so sorry to hear about your losses. I’m glad that you are feeling more positive today – long may this continue. As you rightly say, together we are stronger!

Day 20 Wales 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 NFD

Day 20 Akron OH FD

Two successful FD in a row and working on my 3rd. God willing, the cycle of bad behavior has been broken.
@mari84 your weight may be standing still but I am sure changes are occurring where you can’t see them. I wish you could track your calories because it would tell you for sure if you are eating too much. I don’t weigh my food or anything like that, I use myfitnesspal and loosely estimate what I am eating for a ballpark of where I am at; with a margin of about 250 calories since I am estimating. When I can’t track my calories, I usually throw in an extra FD to make up for any excesses. Keep at it, your breakthrough is on the way 🙂

Day 20 Stevensville Maryland USA CNFD

@basyjames silly me, glad I made you laugh. Yesterday was a good CFD stayed under 500 calories and got 2.5 liters of water in and felt great. Today meals planned out and feeling lighter. Must wait until Friday to step on the scales.

I want to thank everyone on this site, the pock list was a life saver for me yesterday, I printed it out and put in my bra. It was a great help knowing I am not alone on the WOL change.

In a world where you can be anything, be kind and have a great day/night.

Day 20, Rocky Mountains, US, NFD

Day 20 California NFD Maintenance

My weight this morning was 58.3 after yesterday’s FD. Yesterday morning it was 60.7. So down 2.4 kg or 5.3 pounds overnight. It’s amazing how much weight can change overnight. I did eat quite a bit over the weekend, so the weight gain wasn’t unexpected. It’s nice that a FD can reverse that!