Hi FB, I would imaging just a teaspoon of vegemite in a mug filled with boiling water, I used to give it to my kids long before cup-a-soup was invented with buttered fingers of fresh bread, yum. Hope your well CG xxx
This topic contains 14,766 replies, has 323 voices, and was last updated by Countrygal1 2 years, 7 months ago.
CG, thankyou so much!!!!! Sure it will work for me. Not sure if my phone was just having a hissy fit for awhile there but my entries have stopped disappearing. Whoopee.
Just finished Mushroom strog for dinner, such a satisfying meal for 155 cals.
Had to take a leaf out of Lotus’ book and buy a mango/coconut chia pod as I was out waaaaay past lunchtime and passing out. Fortunately Lotus they were specialled this week. Got mine for $1.87 – kept me going until dinner. So many cals left over I’m almost giddy deciding what else to have before bed 🙂
Hi all! Countrygal, sorry you’re hitting the plateau blues – happens alot judging by the other posters on this thread; me too and I nearly gave up – but with lots of encouragement from everyone here I managed to persevere. Please be kind to yourself, I’m sure things will start to move again soon. With regard to sleep issues, have you made any other lifestyle changes recently? I know when I retired over a year ago, my body clock completely changed and I was finding it very hard to get to sleep. Now I go to bed a bit later and get up a bit later and have found a new rhythm and things are much better. Tried what you said about entering my own recipes on MFP, but it still searches its own database for matching ingredients or asks me for information I can’t really come up with, so I’m not sure if I’m giving the right values to calculate calories etc. Never mind, I’m useless with technology but it’s not the end of the world and I’m getting better at working out what I should and shouldn’t eat, so that’s the main thing!!
Are you better, Flemmy?
Best of luck to all for the rest of the week. Xx
FB a Vegemite drink is straight forward. You simply boil the kettle, place a teaspoon of Vegemite in your mug & stir till it’s dissolved. If you like Vegemite you’ll love it, & several forums have said that the salts in it relieves the headaches I get when fasting. Tis yummy. I used to have it as a kid in the winter.
Hi Everyone, I introduced myself last week. Just wanted to let you know that after my first fast week I lost 1kg so I am very happy. I find the fast days very easy. I don’t work at the moment so I find if I sleep in and then go for a really big two hour walk I can almost get myself to lunchtime! I have 1 – 3 coffees during the day which I worked out to be 27 calories each and then have dinner. I have had trouble with constipation though because I have also cut down my calories on non-fast days since deciding in January to be serious about losing weight. My non-fast days are 1400 calories. I’m training to do a 10km fun run in April so recently started running and I do a run every second day and cannot fast on those days because I need sustenance so my fast days will be different every week. I’ve already done one this week and will do the other tomorrow. I do all the right things to help my constipation – drink up to 3 litres of water per day, lots of exercise, lots of vegetables and fibre but unfortunately I have a very slow bowel. A couple of years ago I was told I had a ‘redundant’ bowel – which means my bowel has excess length to it than the average person. I asked how much longer and was told probably about a metre. That kind of explained a lot to me about why I have never been ‘regular’. Apparently its genetic and nothing to worry about, it just means I have to take something to help move it all along. Of course I don’t like laxatives so I try anything that is as natural as possible. Anyway there’s a story for you.
Good luck to everyone on this program. I can see it as being a way of life for the rest of my life because once all the weight is off I think it is a great way to maintain weight as well.
Cheers
Hi everyone! Thank you for the well wishing, I think it might have helped because I’m better than new today. No more fever, no more sore throat, no more debilitatingly low blood pressure! there’s such a big difference between the last few days and today, I feel like I’ve never felt better in my life 🙂 Just in time to make some caulirice for the first time ever.
CG, if you’re wanting to kick start your metabolism, 4:3 could work. I hope you can smash that plateau soon, you really deserve it. Do you think maybe you’re building muscle with the extra exercise you’re getting? Muscle weighs more than fat, I wouldn’t disregard that. I dropped some weight these past few days and I ate about the calories I always eat but didn’t move at all for 3 days. I feel like maybe I’ve not lost fat but lost some muscle tissue, it could be the other way around for you… You will beat this, girl, trust me, you work too hard for weight not to shift eventually.
Did I see something about thongs for me in a haze of fever? Because if so, I couldn’t be more excited! I need to go back and look for it.
Bali, the ribs are funny to me too. I’ve never once in my life seen my ribs or felt my when I sat down. such a difference.
Foxy, it was on the news the other day about Australia entering Eurovision and because fever turns my brain into mush, I had to ask others whether I’d heard it incorrectly. I’m actually very excited about this, I already loved your little stint during intermission last year. Although I’m worried about votes, though. We’re such a traditional bunch, we always vote for our neighbours. Hopefully the novelty will make people vote for you guys (I know I will, even though I usually never vote).
ingrid814, the fatigue on FDs should go away eventually, your blood sugar tends to adapt at your new WOL after a while and your energy levels should pick up eventually. I know I don’t usually feel any difference between my FDs and RDs anymore.
Cohayney123, wow a kg, that’s impressive. Some of that will undoubtedly be water weight but still, great start! I’m pretty sure it’s this recipe ,it’s the one I use, only with dried Chinese black mushrooms instead of porcini because they cost an arm and a leg:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mogQFFrpxl4
so, I was down to 61.5kg today, but I’m sure that’s because of the illness/muscle loss. But that means I’ve officially lost 24 kg since starting in 2013 🙂 And CG has lost almost this much since September, which is even more impressive. Anyway, going to check on my cauliflower to see of it’s dry enough to chop yet (caulirice, here I come!)
Hi CG! I am up too to give Scottish hug! (couldn’t sleep much, so got up early and off to work). I would say muscle building is causing weight stabilisation. I did the followinh got my plateau – 1. Reduced carbs big time to no more than 100 gms Max on regular days and less than 26 gms FDs( more for insulin resistance but it supposedly works for weight loss) 2. Went on 4:3. The ADF sounds stressful as your body is already stressing with lack of sleep it probably will not be worth the effort. 3. Relaxed a bit and have included a hot milk drink last thing at night even on FDs ( not that it really helped last night with sleep, but I se to less grumpy and “hungover”).
I hope it helps you too mate – as you often say – YOU ARE NOT ALONE!!
I actually slept less last night ( loo breaks, fitful) as I kept thinking that I needed to sleep. Brain running in circles! Also exercised hard yesterday so sore muscles last night. So no exercise today 🙂
Anyhow, CW was 77.6 kilos this week more than kilo lost (much of it water I am sure)
XX Lotus the Potus
Yum Yum that chia seed pot is good isn’t it? And you had so many cals left over! You could have a wine with it ( just joking, as alcohol causes dreaded bloating / weight gain by water retention!! 🙂 )
Flemmy – glad you are better now. One of these days I am going make the cauli rice.
Cohanaey! Congrats on 1 kilo weight loss! Impressive ! The strog recipe is on a thread called Aussie Determination- Recipe
Good morning to all team! Hope you have frat day.
Xx lotus
I actually prepared it like a fried rice dish, added white cabbage, savoy, grated carrot, onion, sesame oil, soy sauce, rice vinegar and an egg (for the fried rice effect).
This is what it looked like (also, meet my flowery dressing gown)
http://i.imgur.com/RpMGQmr.jpg http://i.imgur.com/cDQpWds.jpg
Countrygal, so sorry to hear that sleep is still eluding you, but must say I admire your spirit and positivity. Congrats to you and Flemmy on your fantastic weight loss – you are both an inspiration. I also need to get up for toilet breaks too and am often woken by night sweats too – the joys of the menopause!! (yet more proof that God, if you believe in him, must surely be a man!!!)
Cohaney, welcome to the forum and well done on your first kg lost – here’s to many more disappearing the same way!
Must try that caulirice – it sounds yum and I need to find more low cal dishes that are simple to do.
Did a fast day today – porridge and berries in the morn, salmon fillet and steamed veg this evening. MFP says I went well over the 500 cals allowed but I hope I entered the amounts of each food wrong – I don’t weigh anything, so maybe I should invest in kitchen scales.
Fitto, using kitchen scales was a game changer for me. Even on RDs when I’m not logging, I sometimes just throw something on there (like a piece of chocolate or a biscuit or pie) and I can later check how many calories it was, if I want to. Let’s hope you overcalculated. But I read about a study that said that the majority of people overestimate their exercise and underestimate their portion sizes/caloric intake up to 40%. Even doctors/nutritionists had major problems. That’s why I don’t trust myself with the simplest things on FDs without measuring it. If dieticians fail the test, I sure as hell won’t pass it without scales. I drink a latte with 100ml of milk every FD, I weigh it every time, even though I know what it looks like in my glass. Just to be sure.
Good morning everyone
Down another 400 grams since Tuesday’s sneaky weigh in. Losses are becoming consistant again. Have done an extra circuit class this week, so that probably helped. But stiff and sore
CG just my opinion but pain can cause water retention to help your body cope. Put that with your water aerobics and your sleepiness night a bit of a perfect storm for stable weight. Take your own advice keep on keeping on.
Welcome to the newbies.
Hope everyone keeps well and has a lovely day.
Country gal, don’t worry that i think you are going back on your word, I just thought it was funny!
Anyway, it doesn’t matter that I didn’t try it because after coming back from my holiday last week almost a kilo heavier and not doing anything different…..I have broken the barrier….
69.8…….It’s a SIX people! My lowest since starting!
I do feel for you sleep wise. I don’t have problem usually but certainly have experienced it and it happened this week too. Falling asleep trying to watch tv then go to bed and can’t sleep. In my case though, I think it is because I just have a quick look at my laptop, (in bed) which ends up not being so quick and starts me thinking about goodness knows what. So now, I just either go straight to sleep or read a book to wind down. I hope you find something that works for you.
Fatbuster, thanks, I will definitely try it if I start to plateau! I am even more amazed with today’s weight loss because yesterday I had book club here and even had a small piece of very rich chocolate cake and some cream as well as a couple of glasses of bubbles at lunch. But I guess that is what 5 /2 is all about. How wonderful!
Cohayney, well done and how interesting to learn that someone could have a metre extra of bowel! As I have always struggled with a bit of a pot belly (low carb has helped though) I would be very annoyed if I knew I had to fit that in as well!
Have a good day all and keep smiling!
Woo hoo Uptight! A SIX….well done you! You must feel wonderful! I have had the odd play with 4:3 and didn’t really lose any more weight, but I have used a B2B fast to break a plateau and that worked well…
CG…..big hugs to you my friend, will try and catch up today when I get back from work. I think what Bali said about pain might be whats going on, your body is trying to protect itself? Anyway take care. WE LOVE YOU and are inspired by you so much! Hubby too is having heaps of trouble sleeping on FD…..he had nightmares last night too, which is unusal for him as he usually doesn’t remember his dream. Definately going to try magnesium before bed from now on.
Welcome back Flemmy, glad you are feeling better…..and 24kg! That is so awesome!
Well done Cohany, a 1 kilo loss is a wonderful start, fast will soon become a matter of routine….some are great, some are long and hard, but with AUSSIE DETERMINATION, you will get there..
Well time to share my good news…..after that bingy weekend I spoke about….I have lost 700 grams this week….my biggest loss for a while….so don’t know how that works, but I’m taking it….72.3 this morning…..70 kg (my next mini goal is in sight!)…..so this is officially 5 months since I started 5:2….start weight 83.6….so a loss of 11.3 kilos!! woo hooo
Hubby lost 300 grams this week, but has lost a total of 3.3 over three weeks!
Roslyn I am in Albany WA…..and if any of you WA/Perth people ever come down this way, please let me know and maybe we can meet and have a cuppa or something?
Better go and finish getting ready for work….well done everyone on your losses and with sticking with it if you haven’t moved much WE CAN DO IT!
Uptight well done…into the 60’s! Great work. That’s the number that I too will be so excited to see. 400g down after my FD yesterday so heading in the right direction. Now all I have to do is keep it off or lose a bit more for my weigh-in on Tuesday.
FB I definitely agree that having those occasional splurges that are a part of normal life (which is what we should be striving for) are the strength of the 5:2 WOL. Couldn’t agree more. But if you think about it too FB what you had is probably way less than what you might have had before 5:2.
Have to leave it there as will be running late for my little job – hour in the morning & hour in the afternoon looking after school bus interchange area! Not bad as leaves the rest of my day & school hols free.
suejen & have a great day all & plan your weekend ahead. Enjoy some wine/cake/pizza whatever you’re into but watch your TDEE – most of the time, at least!
G’day ADs. Yippee my scales have finally moved for me. I have lost almost 4 kilos since starting just a month ago. I am stoked. The measurements are down too.
Cohaney123. I too have suffered from the constipation issue. I took laxatives for two consecutive nights. Then on the dinner before my last fast day I ate a small bit of chicken and a large plate of veg. Carrots, green beans, cabbage, cauliflower, silver beet. Plus 2 heaped teaspoons of Psyllium husks before each meal. It adds to the calorie count but not too much. This has really helped. It might be worth a try. Fluids plus plus as well.
Flemmy I’m glad you are feeling better. Countrygal and others, the scales will move eventually. You have already lost a lot of weight. Well done you. Was it Flemmy who can now see her ribs? In my dreams. Actually many years ago now I was really underweight – stress related issues. I looked quite gaunt and it added years to my appearance. I have a friend who is the same age as I am and it very underweight too. I think she has an overactive Thyroid. It’s not a good look. We just don’t want to be self conscious about our size.
Happy dieting all and have a good weekend.
Countrygal. So sorry that you are needing a nerve block. I do hope it’s soon and that it is going to give you total pain relief. Please feel free to whinge all you like. Chronic pain is just too horrible and cannot be imagined or understood by those who have not been there. Many years ago I attended the Melbourne Pain Management Clinic. It’s in Grattan at, Carlton. I found them very helpful and supportive. Sorry too that the insomnia is still plaguing you.
Bye for now.
Hi DP (doitinparadise) …..I wouldn’t worry too much about being 100 grams over what you were the day before….it could be anything….a bit of fluid, food in transit….the main thing is the amount of weight you have lost so far….2.3 kilos! Well done…..how long have you been going? Sorry if I missed any of your posts….I don’t get on here on weekends, so have a lot to catch up on…
I am happy to be your inspiration, thank you I am really chuffed 🙂
The only regular exercise I do is walking my dog every morning for about 45 – 60 minutes….I always walk on an empty stomach as I believe in the theory that your body will use it’s fat stores for energy if it has no food….especially after a fast day. I do work in our gardening business, part time, not every day and that is very physical work, plus we have a large garden ourselves, so I’m fairly active.
I haven’t looked into the HIIT exercise part of 5:2 at all, but I think some on here may do it.
Now that I have lost that 11 kg….I am much more fitter and able to do more….my joints, legs & left hip used to really give me pain, but no any more 🙂
I am only a shorty 158 cm….so my goal is to be 60kg by middle of September (12 month mark since starting 5:2)….what are you hoping to get to?
Just out of interest people that are constipated, are you having pains in the tummy etc or just not going as regular as you used to? I haven’t gone at all yet today (1pm here) and I am usually as regular as clockwork first thing in morning….but went about 3 times yesterday on my fast day flushing out my system from two days of eating…..I don’t feel uncomfortable at all, am drinking heaps of water and will guess that I will eventually go this afternoon….sorry if this is TMI…but just thought I’d say if you aren’t having any other symptom except loss of routine, maybe just give your body a bit more time….500 cals of food on fast day isn’t a lot to get through you.
Great work, Up. Wonderful to see that number on the scales! And after such an indulgence yesterday. So comforting to know we can have it all.
And Foxy – warm hugs for you, too. It is so heartening to read of all the successes on the different threads, and to be part of it, sharing in the happiness. We are driven by our body images, and 5:2 seems to be the one regime that can be continued for life. SueJen and Paradise, you will be there shortly too. Great reports all round, and if not today, then very soon on 5:2.
CG, I think dogs have an instinct not to pooh on their own territory, so save it for when they are out. Doggy bags – good, droppings on bottom of shoes – yeech.
Super Rugby has kicked off, so OH in front of TV. Maybe it’s the Hurricanes’ year this year???
Hey ADs
Lots to catch up. I was away today to get immunisation done for my son. Was a long day at the doctors as the wait was so so long.
Weighed in today at 70.9kgs, so 200 grams up from yesterday, this was expected as I am tooooo constipated. I am blaming the iron supplements for my constipation. No loss this week. Feels like a week wasted, but deep inside I know that it will happen next week.
Hubby has list 1.9 kgs this week. My eyes sprung out when he stepped on those damn scales. Hehas now lost 8.8 kilos (alomost 9 kgs) in 6 weeks. and he only does 5:2, unlike me who has been doing 4:3 since I started this WOL.
Foxy, suejen, Bali well done for the losses. CG, I am in the same boat as you, stuck at this for approx 2 weeks now. Really really want to touch 60’s before I go overseas. And Uptight, congrats to you too for touching 60’s really well done.
I was fasting today, up until now (7PM) here, Hubby has now got a bottle of wine and some steamed dumplings and fried rice, Yummmm, my favorite, so not fasting today anymore,, will leave it to Sunday now.
And yes CG, world cup is on now, I will be in Adelaide on Sunday as I am going there to watch India vs Pakistan. Really looking forward to it.
FB
FB Men!! I agree with you. Hubby started before me & he has already lost his weight & decided that he doesn’t really need 5:2 now but will benefit enough from me cooking 5:2 meals for him twice a week & that should do it! That’s despite him ALWAYS having cake when we go out for a coffee and ALWAYS with cream on the side. Maddening!!! FB enjoy the cricket too, should be great.
CG your dinner sounds delish. Hope you have some success with your sleeping pill. A good night’s sleep will do you wonders & in the weight loss war it’s crucial too. Despite you being on a plateau isn’t it wonderful that your gypsy skirts are falling off, and you’re buying size 14 jeans!! How cool is that.
Foxy great re the improvements you can see in your health & mobility & less pain. I beat you in the shorty stakes…..156.5 and don’t forget the .5….it’s important! Hoping to get to 64kg and then we’ll see. Even getting to that will be a miracle. I wonder how many diets I’ve done over the years trying to get there, only to put it on again and more. Never again with 5:2.
Have a fabulous weekend guys & do something you enjoy & stay positive!! Couple of glasses of wine might help that positive attitude too (if you enjoy it that is)! suejen
Suejen, toasting all of us brave ADs with a glass of wine right about now 😉
FB – well done on the weight loss to date. Men! Anyway we are prettier to look at than them 🙂
Goodnight all! I hope CG sweet dreams or at least dreamless sleep for you. But if it does not happen, don’t stress about it. Tomorrow is another day.
Xx Lotus
lmao the sun is blocking my screen so I only see half of the conversations but my cat is so happy laying in the sunshine I haven’t got the heart to close the curtains.
Uptightoutasight, wow, you’re on tram 6, welcome!
Was someone asking about HIIT? I do HIIT maybe twice a week. I only need my bike and a bridge 🙂
CG, Common Saint John’s wort is supposed to be great for sleeping/calming down. My dad drank Saint John’s wort tea when he quit drinking (on doctor’s orders) because they were worried about the valerian being potentially addictive (it’s related to opium?) which is not the best thing to give to an alcoholic lol. It does block birth control pills so I can’t actually take Saint John’s wort. But everyone else in my family has used it at some point and liked it.
I was 61.6 again today, but 61.5 yesterday so I’m sticking with that. It was Friday already in Australia so it counts as Friday weigh-in weight 😉
When I made my caulirice yesterday, I made a meaty version for the boys and because 1 cauliflower yields so much rice, there’s heaps left over from their batch, so I know what I’m having for lunch. I can’t wait.
Going to catch up a bit better when the sun moves away from my computer screen 😀
xXx
Actually they’re pretty cheap in Belgium. I eat cauliflower about once a week (and then save the stem to put in my Monday FD soup). When I cook for 4, I usually chop up and steam a full cauliflower and a full broccoli and then add it to bechamel sauce. It’s one of the most traditional ways of cooking veggies in Belgium, they practically throw them at you here 🙂 Only last week they were weirdly small and expensive and I have no idea why. It was the first time in my life I refused to buy cauliflower because they cost too much. Although that’s also relative to your region of course. If you would charge a Belgian what they charge Americans for Brussels endive, he’d start a revolution.
I just checked some prices and apparently a cauliflower costs about $6 in Australia? Which is about €4. A cauliflower here will cost around €2-3 per piece so about $3-4.5 in AU dollars. Problem is they go per piece so we don’t know the potential weight difference.
I wouldn’t worry about those tablets too much, I was just talking about a potential substitution. I have a friend who’s been using valerian products on and off (especially during exam periods) without any problems for years. If they help, they help. I just thought I’d throw my knowledge of Saint John’s wort into the mix. My GP actually prescribes me sleeping pills for exam periods (they only work for 4 hours) and I was very worried about taking sleeping pills, but they’re just fine. And I only used during exam weeks. It will all be fine. You need sleep. Did you know that going without sleep for 17 hours can have the same effect on your reaction speed as 2 glasses of wine? Not sleeping is not only unhealthy, but miserable. Worrying makes it worse. You’re going to be just fine, you have enough to worry about outside the pills.
Also, my whole family was raving about the caulirice and we’re going to do a bacon version soon. And maybe in a few weeks I’ll add some scampi to it for a FD. I can’t believe I never realised how low cal jumbo shrimp are…
OMG I just realised how much Brussels sprouts cost in Australia O.O
At my supermarket you can get them for €0,99/kg, which is AUD $1,47. In Australia they’re at $9/kg? And they come in packets of 13 sprouts sometimes? Wow. So funny how regional variation in local produce makes such a huge difference in price.
Weirdly our kiwis only cost €0,10 more per fruit. Maybe I’m looking at a weird supermarket.
HAPPY VALENTINES DAY!
Morning AD’S……
Congratulations on all your loses this week!!!!!! Hugs to you all. Your AUSSIE DETERMINATION IS STRONG….. YOU CAN AND ARE DOING IT!
A BIG AUSSIE WELCOME TO ALL OUR NEW MEMBERS.
The recipe thread is great…. Thanks again FOXY!
The scales did not move for me this week…. I am not worried I have lost 10.2 kgs in 4mths…SW 82.2kgs, CW 72kgs. The best thing that has happened is my thyroid gland is sooooooo much smaller….. Just lov’in the little hollow at the base of my throat. Not to mention clothes are looking pretty dam good on the bod…. I HAVE A WAIST….. yes yes yes…that muffin top is also going!
CG-Hope you had a better nights’ sleep.. Try and not sleep so long in the afternoon. Your body must need it , so let it happen. If you are not sensitive to LAVENDER (GOOD QUALITY) put 5 drops of it in your bath before bed, it can help.
Have a wonderful happy day… MAY IT BE FULL OF LOVE!!!!…….GO GALxx
Morning All
Well I’ve lost 0.6kg this week but the exciting news is that I purchased a designer top before christmas (on special big time). I hate trying clothes on in shops, so brought it home put it on and was not happy as it was tooooooo tight over my hips.
Yesterday pulled it out for the draw and thought I hadn’t much else to wear, tried it on and yes the hips and decreased and I could wear it. So looking at all the posts it appears that even if the loss is not great on the scales the body has seem to change.
So this weekend – climbing onto the step ladder – getting the box of clothes down and seeing if any of them fit (more with new labels on them).
CG – like the idea of your FD with little or no food as I find that I put th wrong stuff into my mouth at tea time.
Well Happy Valentine Day’s to your all – may you all have smiles on your faces from whatever gift you are given!
Countrygal, you made me laugh out loud when I read about about your dog leaving a ‘message’ on the neighbour’s lawns. Nearly every time I take my mutt for a walk she tries to do the same thing, so I have learned to watch her like a hawk and if she shows signs of starting to squat, I grab her lead and race up the road like a mad thing until we reach a stretch with no houses!! Hope your sleep issue gets sorted soon and your other aches and pains. Delighted to hear your clothes falling off you – but best not do it in public!!
Uptight – how wonderful to be in the 6’s…..brilliant for you.
GoGal, congrats on your fab weight loss and finding your waist again. This diet throws up some weird and wonderful reasons to be joyful at times. Let’s share and enjoy them all. I got a real thrill lately when I put on a pair of trousers that were too tight a few weeks ago and now close with no trouble at all.
Suejen, so agree with you about men and weight loss….and they don’t get cellulite either, so unfair! 🙁
Morning everyone
Happy Valantines Day to all. Everyone should do something special today even if you are on your own. Get a special meal to cook or my favorite is new underwear, not buying clothes in between sizes at the moment somewhere about 17 some 16 fits and most 18s to big. On fast days I wear my new undies the. On the many many many trips to the loo, I am reminded how far I have come and why I continue to do this.
No sign of a Valantine gift yet, I guess he forgot.
Off to gym.
Have a great day
CG so glad you had a great sleep you must feel a bit different today.
Everyone is doing so well keep it up
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9:46 am
12 Feb 15