This topic contains 842 replies, has 80 voices, and was last updated by penguin 5 years, 3 months ago.
Some people do alternate fast days to maximize the fat loss results. I’ve done 4:3 and it works quite well. Since I’m lifting heavy now I’m doing 5:2. to maximize recovery and muscle growth.
I don’t think it make a great deal of difference if you fast on the same days every week. Do whatever is most convenient for you.
Hi Stardust. Sticking to the same days has advantages – it simplifies the planning and, which really helps, your friends and family get used to those days and don’t question your strange eating habits. I do Monday/Tuesday.. Your body also seems to get into the routine and the fasting becomes easier. I can now do a zero calorie two days without feeling deprived and take exercise on those days. it has become easier than a low cal day when putting something into my mouth can be dangerous..
I am a guy and I am on some variation of the 5:2.
I tend to prefer longer term fasts – and I pretty much can live on black coffee and water and tea with HWC and sucralose, as well as fats. I am however more like insulin fasting. However I have done as long as 20 days with nearly 15 days with just water and strong black coffee. Stronger the less I want to put cream and sucralose in it.
I lose weight spectacularly and after the first 2 days even the cravings/stress is all gone. Days 2-14 or so are utter bliss (if you got the body fat to burn) I will probably get on that schedule in a few days – next weekend – starting Thursday night I hope.
Thanks.
Srinath.
Last night I revisited my copy of “the Fast Life” with a focus on Chapter Two: The FastDiet in Practice. I am a Keep-It-Simple-STUPID( KISS) guy by nature and need to stick with what works; Back-to-Basics 5:2 will be my March mantra as I want to see some real results for Spring; yes I have dropped some weight and a few cm but nowhere near my goals. Encouragement on here is a great help, best wishes guys.
I’m 6 1/2 weeks into the diet, and I’ve dropped just over 9 pounds, about 1.5 pounds per week. The weight loss was faster for the first two weeks and seems to have slowed down since: I lost 7 pounds during the first 3 weeks, and 2 during the second three weeks. At least we’re still going in the right direction!
WEEK 4 progress,182.4 – 184.4 +2.0 LBS. Total loss in four weeks, 6.2 LBs. Well the fickle scale says I gained two lbs and body fat went down 1% this week! Go figure!! LOL I ate pretty good did one fast day and got in my workouts so I’m not sweating it. This week is going to be challenging because I’m traveling for a race and won’t be doing my normal workouts. I’ll be happy if I just hold steady.
Diver, you’re right about February. Happily, we are well into March.
I was 194 pounds when I started the diet on 13 January. I’ve dropped almost 11 pounds, a little over 1 pound per week on average. I was stuck at 185-186 for the better part of February, but this past week I dropped 1.5 pounds. I’m just over 183 pounds; my goal is 175 pounds. No too far!
The hard part is going to be staying there. Any thoughts on that?
@bull City : congratulations on your results. Well done; I am stuck around 185 at this point with an ultimate goal of 168-170. Once we reach our goals I think the challenges will be not going back to old habits while adjusting our consumption to ongoing metabolism changes. Not an expert by any measure but I think we need to focus on body mass makeup more than weight. For example I would like to be at my goal weight but with 20% body fat or less.
@diverdog – It isn’t just body fat that matters it is also building lean body mass, at least to me. I’ve found that 5:2 actually works very well for building some muscle vs normal calorie restriction. That is probably because the fasting tends to be protective of muscle and during NFD there is enough consumed resources to help build. There are clearly faster ways of building muscle but this WOE is helping with the really hard balance of burning fat and building muscle. Of coarse to build muscles you have to stress them.
@dykask,@diverdog: Thank you for the input; I think we are looking at two sides of the same coin, as lean body mass increases than body fat % decreases. It is the “stressing muscles” I have to work on once I get 5:2 firmly entrenched as a way of life.
@diverdog. Totally agree. After losing 11 kgs with the 5:2 (85 to 74 kg), the most impressive loss was to my pecs. The bulk there (not Mr Universe stuff !) just melted away. A bit soul distroying actually. I’ve started the HIT plan to muscle up a bit but can’t find the time to be serious.
I’ve only put back on 500 gr from my lowest weight so far too.
My fat mass has gone from over 26% to 19%.The lowest it’s been is 18%.
But how much muscle can you build at 57…
Still have the 5:2 in my life but more cheese and the odd choc have crept back in… it’s difficult.
@diverdog – Weight bearing exercise doesn’t work well with typical calorie restriction. I know that first hand, one can even end up losing lean body mass if the calorie restriction is too deep. That is what I was referring too. Diet doesn’t build muscle but it can block muscle development. I clearly stated you have stress muscles to build them. You don’t have to use a gym though to do that, but that is one way stressing muscles.
What happens with 5:2 is kind of double benefit. While fasting there are hormonal changes that favor muscle development. Note I don’t eat while fasting, even small amounts of food can prevent much hormonal benefits and I also push for 36+ hour fasts. Then on the NDF there can be adequate nutrition to allow for muscle healing and development. There is a false concept that one has to bulk to build muscle or take a lot of supplements. One really only needs adequate nutrition and stressing of the muscles. There is some timing considerations, but possible is better than impossible.
For timing, I simply don’t stress the muscles hard at the start of a fast. I try to time that so I’ll be eating within a couple hours of stressing the muscles. So I do the hardest workouts right after a fast or at least near the end of a fast. Since the fasts are short the timing probably isn’t that important. However after 36 hours of fasting there is also more HGH flowing and that has really seemed to have a strong effect in my case. That is something that will be highly variable for different people.
No fasting this week but fat loss anyway. Lost 1.8lbs and 1.2% BF. Not happy with the scale by quite happy with the BF. A little bit sore from ramping up the UB weight workout volume yesterday but also still very motivated to work my plan! One thing that has been a detriment is getting a huge dose of pollen in CA two weeks ago. The pollen here in Vegas has been at an all time high due to the wet winter and warm spring. The itchy eyes, swollen soft palate and lethargy have been a PITA. But I’m really grateful that I avoided the nasty flu and colds that have been rampant this season. Planning a fast day tomorrow with a HIIT workout on the spin bike.
@diverdog: Hi, yes it is quiet; I remain “plateaued” at 85.2 K with a short term goal of 83 K and a stretch goal of 76 k. If I could reach , and sustain around 80 K, while seeing real improvement on the body fat I would be happy. We are finally seeing some spring like weather,that may help my motivation. I have been seeking a new income source, which has become daunting and frustrating at 60+, and that could be influencing my motivation. Best wishes to any and all celebrating holidays this week.
Well I’m back on the diet. After reaching my goal 3 months ago I have let myself go recently.
Too much beer, home-made scones, a bit of chocolate and cheese here and there too. Wine and cake and I’m putting on the weight.
It’s really not easy to stay disciplined.
I’ll let you know if I get back on track…
@david V: Take heart; I think the idea is to enjoy life but stay healthy in a sustainable way over the long term.
Too much information follows 🙂
In January 2013 I was almost out of control at 92.3 K,I got down to 82 k over 6 months on my own by limiting carbs, counting calories, increased mild exercise and keeping a food and exercise diary; I stayed between 80 to 85 for about 2.5 to 3 years. This was all on my own without any knowledge of 5:2. Slowly my weight crept up to 88.7 K last summer and I decided to try 5:2 after seeing the BBC show on Youtube and reading about fasting benefits. My low since then was 83.3 at the start of December; currently at 85.2, on a good day,with a 2017 low of 84.2. I have been struggling with the 5:2 “life style” over the winter with rotten weather, comfort food readily available, and frustrating personal issues.
A long way of saying you are not alone and this is not a quick, one time, fix. Now if I can just get through this holiday weekend and still fit into my current pant size!
David & August, great to see you posting and doing your best to work the plan! This last week I got in two fast days and lost .4 lb and 1.6% BF. The scale is indeed fickle but I’m very happy with the results. All workouts were intense and nutrition was around 85% on target. I’m getting back into the groove of better habits and feeling pretty good despite suffering from the worst allergy season in 10 years. It makes me feel so lazy and lethargic!
Hi. Background – I’m currently 5’11”. weight got as high as 210 lbs in Univ & again mid-20s. Got it down to 180-185 for number of years then decided to get of my paunch (2004/5) and got to 175 via a lower carb diet. Started to creep back up & last fall saw Moseleys program & decided to give it a go in Oct.
Started at 183 lbs, currently 164; albeit I hit that by X’Mas. Sitting around 18% body fat & am experimenting with LCHF diet for a few weeks to see if I can burn off my stomach “bulge”. Love handles are more or less gone & I would like to lose a few inches midrif. Wife thinks I look “ripped” but in reality that is only my arms/shoulders, which don’t have much fat. Also shed a lot of weight on ass/hips.
Enjoying the 5/2 lifestyle – mainly 6/1 most of the time. My appetite adjusted quickly & I don’t struggle with the FDs. I think my body has adjusted to my new weight as I recently spent 6 weeks on road (restaurant food + beer) & I only “ballooned” to 168 lbs: dropped to 165 in 2 days once home so likely salt. I don’t sweat calories too much on NFDs – love wine & cheese! That said – use an app to monitor calories/nutrition on the LCHF that I am trying.
bcjmmac, sounds like you have your diet dialed in pretty well. Congrats on that, it seems to be the hardest thing to do.
You don’t mention how old you are and if you exercise but at 5′ 11″ and 164 lbs 18% bf it sounds like you need to add a bit of muscle to your frame. For example when I weighed 168 @ 5’9″ I was 12% BF.
If you are adverse to lifting weights, HIIT sprints will help you get rid of the belly fat.
Thanks for posting and keep us up to date on how you are doing.
Well I broke my bike out of storage, it really extends range in Tokyo. Of course driving would be better if it weren’t for parking …
Anyway I was shocked! It seems my legs have really increased in strength. Last year I was using the highest gear most of the time but I would feel it. Now I’m using the highest gear and it feels more like a middle gear. I really think the fasting is helping with building some muscle. My thighs are actually smaller than they used to be but they are firmer. In fact sometimes when I’m walking I feel the outside of my thigh and I can feel the muscles ripple each step.
While I’m not always that happy while fasting, it is pretty clear it isn’t hurting muscle development. When I was using just calorie restriction I didn’t seem to be gaining much muscle. I would gain strength but I would also lose it quickly. Things have kind of smoothed out now.
Weight is a mixed bag though. My weight keeps moving up towards 81kg (~178 lbs) when I’m not fasting. I don’t mind that but I still have a couple handfuls of fat covering my abs. My shoulders and upper arms are getting very lean as well as my legs. My butt is even a bit on the bony side but my gut fat is stubborn. Actually I still carry some fat under my skin on my back. That is slowly thinning but also just seems to be moving from my back to my gut.
I also have noticed some other side effects. My hair loss seems to have stopped, can’t be sure if it is the fasting or not but right now I’m about 30 years behind where my father was. However my hair is pretty thin these days. I also been experiencing growth is some more private areas which is surprising at my age. However I have teenagers so it isn’t like that was a problem in the first place. Finally, I had some improvement in my skin. I used to struggle with dry skin on the backs of my calves, my ankles and terribly bad behind my knees. It would get so bad it burned, but now all that is gone. While I can’t be sure these changes are due to the fasting, it is interesting how they happened while I’m fasting regularly. My blood glucose seems to be improving too, that was the primary change I was after.
I’ve also noticed that my “bald spot” has decreased in size or at least isn’t as noticeable. Sounds like you also have a mild case of eczema. Mild only acts up in winter – dry air. Not an issue these days as I’m in Aus on a 1 year contract (NSW not in the outback).
I’m not sure any fat has migrated to my gut – just the last stubborn area. I’m not trying to get a six pack, or anything along those lines, just trying to get rid of the slight roll I have left. 40 years ago, back in high school, I could eat 4000+ calories and not gain a pound – think I weighed about 150 lbs when I graduated. First year University I ballooned to 180+ by X’Mas, over 200 by end of 2nd term, but used to drop a lot of that over the summers – better food & lots of manual labor.
I’m putting a push on to get to 160 lbs. Not sure how that will feel. I’m definitely the lightest I’ve been since HS & have better muscle tone – 5/2 has been good at preserving muscle. Lost too much fat on my hips but can live with that/Hip joints get sore if I don’t move around in bed – sleeping on one side too long gets uncomfortable.
Anyhow, hit the gym 3 out of 4 days – 1 day shoulders, back, arms & cardio HIIT, 1 legs, 1 straight cardio & 1 rest. Sprinkle some core work throughout or when I can’t get to gym due schedule.
LCHF is going ok – been 10 days and finally got medium-high reading on urine test for first time today. Pretty sure I’ve been in ketosis for a while but I drink so much water that it throws the test off. Likely stick to it for another week, check my waist size & weight then decide. I’ve had no issues losing weight on a standard 5/2 as long as I avoid sugar & too many carbs.
Cheers
For the last week I have been walking in the hills – no phone signal or wifi so I have had a lot of interesting posts to read on my return. No scales where I was either and I find that I am 6 pounds heavier.
I have been 5:2 ing for a few years and it has become a routine – get the weight under control, relax and put some of it back on, then fast again, overall trend downwards. It has become too easy and I have become too relaxed about it. This morning I am 14 pounds heavier than I was on 21 December so this is day one of a zero calorie 2 day fast. In the past that has given me a six pound loss. A few weeks of that will work.
@bcjmmac – sounds like your workout is much more consistent than mine. While I do get in 3 to 4 hard workouts a week, I don’t follow a plan. Partly that is because I don’t have enough control of my workout time. However I’m working towards trying to get to park and use bars twice a week. However I routinely try use HIIT in my workouts.
I think LCHF will make fasting easier, if you are already in ketosis fasting is probably just more of the same and you don’t have the shift from sugar to fat burning to deal with. However I’m finding my fasts are getting much easier.
I expected to be shaving my head by this time, but maybe I’ll make it a couple more years. 🙂
I’m going for a six pack, I want to shut up my 16 year old about that. He was a nice kid until he turned 14, sigh … He is getting slightly better but he is still pretty much a teenager.
Hi gentlemen, what great posts to read this am after being offline over a rainy weekend at a friend’s cottage in the country;at least it was not snowing. Now assessing the caloric overload,no exercise and sugar orgy impact on this FastDay after the holiday weekend!
@bcjmmac, @dykask, and @diverdog: I aspire to your levels of exercise activity.
Great to see you guys posting! It’s very inspirational. I had a free meal planned for Easter but I went a bit overboard… actually more than a bit!! LOL Today is a fast day (for me that means one <500 calorie no carb meal in the evening). A rest and active recovery day with an easy ride on a stationary bike, static stretching and a ballroom dance lesson.
Weigh day today – first for a month. And confirmed what I had already felt around my waist – I’m up 1,5kg. I think I ‘ve been neglecting the weekly weigh-in to avoid the bad news. They do say that people who weigh more often, control their weight better.
I know what it is. Beer, wine, some bread and cheese has been creeping back into the able. My daughter’s banana cake, Easter chocs and a friends banofi pie..
So it’s back onto my head again I reckon…
Still 10kg down from start last september but I can’t let this go after such an effort. It’s not esay.
I’ve lost another 1.0 lb with one fast day last week. Right at 180 lb. Workouts have been great. It seems like I’m getting stronger after each one.
Heading to France and Italy for three weeks this Thursday so I don’t expect to lose any fat! LOL I’m just hoping to hold the line. No gyms where I’ll be staying so workouts will be body weight and exercise bands
@diverdog: France and Italy in the Spring…I am jealous! Enjoy.
Excellent cardio workout today. Normally go in the morning prior to eating but went mid afternoon today due schedule. Averaged .7 km/hr faster than normal over 30 minutes.
Ended my 3 week experiment with a LCHF diet on Monday – went well & I did lose ~1 inch mid section but decided to shift back to my normal eating patterns (moderate carb) as I found keto a bit restrictive. Nutrition wasn’t an issue according to the apps I use.
Cheers
Male, 49yo. 184cm 88kg (BMI 26).
I’ve been on 5:2 for just over two months and have lost nothing whatsoever! 88kg in late Feb; 88kg last night.
I’m going to persevere because in all honesty I find the system very easy, but I don’t really understand the biophysics (?) of it if I’m honest. Even assuming that I’m radically underestimating my calorie intake on fast-days, non-fast-days, or both, (I don’t think I am) I must still be receiving at least 2000 fewer calories per week than before, with no change in physical activity. How can that not lead to any weight loss? If the fat is turning to muscle I’ve certainly seen or felt no evidence of that. If my metabolism can simply “adjust” to the deficit without burning fat, then why does it need fat reserves in the first place?! 🙂
I have considered going to 0-calorie fast days, which I don’t think would be a great hardship but I have seen suggestions that that’s not a good idea. Does anyone have any thoughts on that?
Hi Rob. I suspect that there may be something wrong with your calculations on your non fasting days. I always lose weight on a fast day, but if I’m not careful I can put it back on during the week. For that reason I weigh myself every day. There are differing schools of thought on such frequent weighing, but there is some respectable research that suggests that those who who do it are more successful in the long run. Initially I confined myself to 600 cal on fast days but I have found that total fasting is easy and causes me no energy deficiency problems. A two day total fast really takes off the weight and leaves me feeling surprisingly happy and energetic. I would not wish to run a marathon after a 48 hour fast, but I usually go to the gym.
Interesting, thanks for that.
I don’t strictly calorie-count, but my standard fast-day intake is a modest plate of steamed vegetables and a chicken breast (or similar) in a home-made, low-sugar sauce (e.g. tomato, creme fraiche). No carbs. No sugared drinks. Nothing else to eat in the 36 hrs.
I’m sure I probably eat a LITTLE more for breakfast the day after a fast, but if anything my regular food intake has fallen too. I’ve been reducing carbs on non-fast days, and I’ve done quite well on limiting snacking. The point is that even if I am “over-eating” on non-fast days, then I always have been, so I should surely still be seeing results from fasting? However much I’m eating now, there’s no possible doubt that it’s considerably less than before.
I have only been weighing myself very occasionally, for several reasons. Firstly, I want to be more focused on how I look & feel, not what the numbers say. Secondly, I’m expecting progress to be slow (just not zero!) so I don’t want to get regularly demotivated by lack of change. But I will now take the advice above and monitor closely for a few weeks, and see if I notice anything.
If I see no change in another few weeks I think I’ll try going to “zero” days and see how that goes. Penguin, it sounds like your two days are consecutive? I don’t think I could manage that, not least because I’m the cook in our household so I can’t expect my partner to suffer with me two days at a time!
Hi Rob and welcome:
The definition of TDEE is the number of calories your body needs to neither gain nor lose weight. As you have neither gained nor lost weight for two months, you are by definition eating to your TDEE. But to lose weight, you have to eat under your TDEE. So you have to start eating less to begin losing weight.
Your situation is not uncommon. Research shows that experienced dieters that estimate their caloric intake rather than ‘count calories’ underestimate their intake by almost 50%. Research shows that even trained nutritionists underestimate their caloric intake by almost 20%.
Not eating anything on your diet days is one way to reduce your intake. You might also count calories for a week or two to see where you might cut down. Here are some tips – you might check the TDEE post for more information on TDEE: https://thefastdiet.co.uk/forums/topic/the-basics-for-newbies-your-questions-answered/
The less you eat, the more you lose.
Good Luck!
Yes, I fast Monday and Tuesday. Initially I doubted my ability to do two days of nothing but liquid but it turned out to be easier than expected – I have done longer fasts but I tend not to go beyond three days. There are a group of people on this forum who totally fast for a week, which I have done but it gets boring. I don’t always total fast , in fact some weeks I don’t fast at all. I have been doing this for a few years now and have lost most of the weight I wanted to shed so I am content to make slower progress and throw in a serious fast if I plateau or regain weight. The main problem with total fasting is that at certain times of the day your brain tells you it is time to eat and you have to find something else to do.
Thanks simcoeluv,
My TDEE – according to this website – is 2461 calories. My BMR is 1790.
According to most information I can collate, an average-sized chicken breast, grilled, is about 200-250 calories. Is that very wrong? On a fast day, I eat one of those, or equivalent weight of pork fillet; steamed veg (maybe half a head of broccoli, a handful of grilled mushrooms & 1 courgette); sauce, and nothing else. I’m not sure how I can be getting this so badly wrong? 🙂
As I said, regardless of the figures, what is not disputable is that I am eating significantly less than I was before I started. The days following my first few fast days I certainly did eat heartily – although even then I can’t imagine I replaced 1800 missing calories! Since then, however, I don’t feel as if I “bounce” at all; if anything the reverse. For example, yesterday was a fast day, and so far today (5pm) I’ve eaten an apple and 50g of cheese, and I don’t feel particularly hungry. I’ll have a filling meal at about 7pm, and maybe a bit more cheese before bed (I don’t get nightmares!) I’m not claiming all my non-fast days are like this, but it’s indicative that I’ve felt my appetite drop generally and I’m quite sure I’m not compensating for the fasts.
Although I’m disappointed in the results I’m not too disheartened, just confused as to the apparent contradictions I’m seeing. It’s a very easy regime to maintain so I’ll stick with it for a while yet. It’s good to have support too, so thanks again for your answers!
Hi Rob:
The hard part to get your arms around is regardless of what and how much food you are eating, and regardless of what a calculator says your TDEE is, you are neither gaining nor losing weight. So you, by definition, are eating to your TDEE. So where you are, what you are eating, and how much you are eating is your base point. You have to eat less going forward to start losing weight. It sounds like you were gaining weight before starting the diet, so by stopping the gain you confirm you are eating less – but not enough less to start losing.
There are some that will chime in and tell you to eat fewer carbs, especially processed carbs. Research shows the high fat, low carb diet is the most healthy. People have lost weight on this diet for decades because it actually is a low calorie diet – you eat fat but don’t get hungry so don’t eat too much. But the foods are not ‘magic’, they just allow you to eat less without being hungry all of the time.
Some say you should eat a high protein diet. But it is well known that if you consistently eat a high protein diet (over 30 to 35% of calories from protein over time) you will get sick. And if you have kidney disease, you might ruin your kidneys in the process.
Others are in the veggie camp. While many negatively react to the FODMAPs in some veggies and fruits, if you are not one of them they are low cal. and if you can eat quite a few of them, get full and still not be eating many calories. (But again, some will chime in and say fruit contains the worst kind of sugar and should be avoided.)
As the common phrase goes, you have to find what works for you. But regardless what some might say, a calorie is a calorie and you need to eat fewer of them to lose weight. The neat thing about 5:2 is it allows you to eat any foods you want and still lose weight – as long as you don’t overeat those foods along the way.
Good Luck!
All good stuff, thanks.
I wasn’t gaining weight before I started – at least, not significantly. I was at the lower end of what seems to have become my “resting” weight range, 87-91kg. I have been this weight since about 2012, having got down to about 80kg in 2010 but then suffered an accident which prevented me from normal exercise for over a year. (The upside is that the inertia in my weight does seem to work in both directions; I usually over-indulge mindlessly at Christmas / New Year, and rarely come out the other side more than a kilo or two up, which seems to settle back to the “resting” range with no effort on my part.)
What you say above suggests that TDEE can change (without weight change). Is this what you mean? Because I certainly do have trouble understanding that. If the body can simply adjust consumption to fit the energy supply, why is anyone ever hungry, or over/underweight? If that’s NOT what you mean, then I can’t make sense of my experience, because even if I’m underestimating by 50%, I’m still consuming 1800 calories per week fewer than I was in February, and that energy to make up TDEE has to be coming from somewhere. AM I completely off-base with my calorie estimates? Is the meal I describe above significantly in excess of 600 calories? Even if so, it’s a fraction of what I was eating on Mondays in January, and I weighed exactly the same.
I realize I’m sounding a bit confrontational about this now – sorry! 🙂 – but I’m certain I’m missing something, but can’t see what it is. It’s like one of those logic problems where you’ve checked over each step ten times but still get the wrong answer at the end!
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Michael Mosley gives an update for 2019, current research in the field and announces a tour starting in February.
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