@delayedgratification – Maybe because of the protein content of dairy? Dr. Longo isn’t a fan of high protein.

It seems simcoeluv is referring to autophagy which also happens with other forms of fasting to various degrees. Basically anything that inhibits mTOR kinase promotes autophagy. The additional stem cell activation that seems to occur with refeeding after a FMD fast may promote other benefits, but in humans that actual long term impacts aren’t clear. There are some claims that FMD is actually better than water fasting with these effects and the diet is carefully formulated to maximize these effects.

When it comes to longevity this is just one of many possible approaches and it isn’t clear what will actually work well in humans. However many forms of fasting do promote many health benefits far beyond temporary calorie restriction. Even Dr. Longo believes other factors are important.

Example of another approach to inhibit mTOR kinase: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2698317/

Hi dy:

Sounds pretty cool, but the FMD causes apoptosis. I’m sure that is what you meant to say since you seem to be trying to explain what I was saying.

Big difference between apoptosis and autophagy. Autophagy happens on a daily basis for many reasons. Apoptosis requires extended fasting, given the context we are discussing, and that is one reason why short term fasting, like that involved with 5:2 and time restricted eating, does not lead to positive results similar to those caused by the FMD.

You can sort of tell the two basic approaches – fasting measured in hours v. fasting measured in days – are different by the research being conducted. The FMD has been undergoing clinical studies in both the lab and with human trials for about 8 years. The human trials published to date show quite a bit of benefit in the cancer, MS and metabolic syndrome areas. Ongoing and new human clinical trials are in the metabolic syndrome, cancer, MS, Type 2 diabetes and Alzheimer’s areas. Lab trials show positive results for Type 1 diabetes. Based on current human trial results, it is suspected the diet will positively impact many more diseases. The research shows that the impact of the diet is body wide, not targeted, which is why it works on so many diseases.

There is no similar research being carried on that I am aware of with time restricted eating or 5:2/ADF diets. I am not saying 5:2 or time restricted eating are not beneficial, especially, in the case of 5:2, for weight loss. But their potential for positive prevention and/or positive impacts on disease is not recognized at this time.

Longo’s team currently is conducting studies on the impact of the diet on autophagy and whether or not that impact, if any, is beneficial. The research is not complete, and any peer reviewed publication on the research is some time away.

Please keep us updated!

The underlying theory for the fasting mimicking diet is simple. Shut down the metabolic pathways for protein and sugar. So the base of the diet is no protein, no sugars, no high glycemic carbs. Not hard to duplicate by rolling your own. <800 calories of fats and low glycemic carbs for six days. This does not duplicate the medical food Prolon, which may have additional ingredients that support the process, but it will accelerate apoptosis.

I’ve mimicked the “fasting mimicking diet” a couple of times and it’s a pretty easy protocol to follow. I prefer doing a five day water fast once a quarter since I’m acclimated to longer fasts and I like the fat reduction as well as the potential health benefits. When I water fast my wife does FMD.

Hi Coffee:

Thanks!

It will be interesting to see the results of some of these. Unfortunately, not all studies are completed and results published (I see one of these studies was completed in 2016 with no results published yet), but I hope this group is different.

Hi dy:

My comment was not on apoptosis v. autophagy. It was simply that you did not know what I was talking about.

As for Dr. Patrick, her two about two years apart interviews are helpful. If you have watched them, you know that Dr. Longo rejects the belief that time restricted fasting is helpful for longevity/disease prevention/disease cure purposes. You also know the definitions of intermittent fasting, calorie restriction and prolonged fasting.

But your fixation on ‘calorie restriction’ makes me wonder. Because five day water fasts have nothing to do with calorie restriction.

@simcoeluv you are the one that pushes calorie restriction all over the forum. I even saw posts where you contradicted Dr. Mosley whom I’m sure has done far more research on the topic. I’ve never claimed that fasting is just calorie restriction because it isn’t. You seem to cling to a fiction that shorter fasts have no value.

Frankly I don’t believe you are trying to have an intelligent discussion. It only seems you enjoy trying to insult people. It is just me, it is pretty much anyone that disagrees with you.

Hi dy:

You state that Dr. Longo does not recommend monthly fasts. You are wrong.

He recommends different usage of the FMD depending on your state of health. If you are an athlete eating what he feels is the correct diet, he recommends that you do the FMD once or twice a year. If you are sort of ‘average’, in good overall health and not obese and without family history of disease, he recommends you do the FMD three or four times a year.

But if you are obese, have metabolic syndrome, pre-diabetic or a family history of heart disease, cancer or Alzheimer’s, for example, he states clearly you should do the FMD monthly.

I do wish you would report facts accurately.

You also say the only difference between a 36 hour fast and a 96 hour fast is ‘a matter of degree’. You imply that the same bodily markers are present at both 36 and 96 hours, just at different levels. You should talk to Dr. Longo about your belief.

Dr. Longo looks for four bodily ‘markers’ that signal that the body is in a fasting state, and until those markers are all hit, in the correct ‘amounts’, the body is not in a state where it needs to be, in Dr. Longo’s opinion, to provide the benefits derived from apoptosis and other results of prolonged fasting. Dr. Longo has determined through his research that those markers are not hit until after about three to five days of water fasting.

So it is not ‘a matter of degree’. It is a matter of being in a fasting state or not.

But I know you know this, so why not report it accurately?

Hi Dykask,

I know this is an old thread, but I do not want to duplicate stuff that has already been said. As others, I became quite perplexed when I heard Valter Longo saying that any fasting of 1-2 days does not bring any value. At least this is how I understood, although I sense that it may refer to the comparison with the really “heavy stuff”, such as stem cells regeneration.

I have not read Longo’s book but was thinking about reading it, but I would much appreciate if someone could outline any recent findings around whether 5:2 or 6:1 has any benefits at all. It is interesting to think about the fact that that is where it all started out 6-7 years ago with pomp and circumstance and now it is like only a fully-fledged 4-5 days fast has any impact.

I would just like to find some updated, reliable material around the benefits of 5:2 or 6:1. I have done 5:2 and 6:1 for 6.5 years and will continue to do it, if so just for the stamina it gives you to resist food. I just do not see myself doing a 5 days fast, having two kids and a job to do – and vacation days to spend on other things than fasting! I am just intrigued as to whether I am wasting my time :). Still, the impact of 5:2 and 6:1 (I do 22-25h of complete fasting and then have a light meal of about 600-700 calories followed by a night’s sleep, so the whole cycle is about 700 calories in one meal over a period of about 36h) has been very positive: weight maintenance; body composition is totally different; my cholesterol levels went back to normal; my IGF-1 is very low for years (around 120, where the range for my age is between 100-220 or so); and I experience – but it may be placebo! – a much improved short-term memory. So, clearly, the good old “5:2 followed by maintenance mode” can just not compete with a 5 days fast, but I am still interested in knowing if there are documented benefits of “my” regime. I am probably one of those old dogs that you cannot teach how to sit as I started IF in 2012 🙂

Thanks!