5:2 and Autophagy

This topic contains 9 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  diet021271 5 years, 9 months ago.

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  • Can someone point me in the right direction. I am keen to reap the autophagy benefits of 5:2 fasting – however all information and research seems to tell me that to truly get into autophagy you have to have ZERO food / calories / drinks (minus water) etc. Even a swig of apple cider vinegar is shown to kick you out of autophagy. If this is the case – how can consuming 500 calories put you into autophagy. Please guide me to the correct research. Thanks

    Look up Valter Luongo and fasting mimicking diet. He studies longevity and diet. Lots of youtube clips with Valter.

    You are correct the easiest way is to not eat. If you can do that then no problems. Ive been doing true fasts for two years now. Its not as hard as you think and you get used to it. Took me about 6 months before it was comfortable, and after about 12 months it became easy. The hunger pangs caused by ghrelin decrease with time as Ghrelin production decreases the longer you fast for (it does come back after very long fasts but Ive not gone that long). I used to fast for 2 days per week but only do one day per week now. I no longer wish to lose any more weight.

    Apple cider vinegar kicks you our of autophagy?? Can you point me to where you got that information from, it doesn’t sound right. Apple cider vinegar is an appetite suppressant and lessens insulin spikes post eating. Your body is performing autophagy all the time, its just that fasting severely accelerates this process. Apparently Valter’s work seems to indicate that you can trick the body into this accelerated autophagy mode with a very selective diet.

    Hello I’m also interested in autophagy and mitophagy(not sure if spelt correct) I have listened to a lot of dr Rhonda Patrick’s work and she states that black coffee basically anything with that isn’t water breaks a fast I e because it creates processes with enzymes in the gut etc. I have been doing time restricted eating (eating within a 10 hour window and this seems to be good as a life long schedule for me. But I would like to go for some longer fasts (72hours) to maximise cell regeneration I really would like to find out what effects also that black coffee and cider vinegar has on this because I find it really easy when these are involved, I am currently 35 hours fasted (1st time over 18hours)but have had black coffee. Would love some input from anyone 🙂

    Valter’s work on fasting is the gold standard on fasting and the immune system. Basically the fasting mimicking diet is five days of zero protein and < 500cal of healthy fat and carbs from non starchy veggies. It seems that the key is no protein intake. I’ve done 3 cycles of this and it’s not hard to do for me. Since coffee and apple cider vinegar have no protein and calories I’d say coffee won’t prevent atophgy.

    Lately I’ve been doing a 2:1 cycle of normal eating and water (coffee) fasts. I’m at my lowest weight since military service. 166.2 lbs at 5’10” 67 YO. I still have a couple of lbs of ab fat that needs to go.

    So, is there a chart to refer to, listing the various beneficial processes kicking in after x amount of hours from your last meal?
    I’ve been on 5:2 since October and just recently started making my second weekly fasting day a full24 hours, while the other day stays at 500 split into breakfast and dinner with 12-13 hours gap, filled only with lemon water.
    Would lemon water prevent autophagy? I hope not, since I do admit sipping warm water with a slice of lemon during my fast days is very comforting.
    Thank you

    Hi Silvio:

    There is no chart as everyone is different. Autophagy occurs constantly. But for the amount you are interested in, it will take three or four days of water fasting to make a difference. You might check the Longevity Diet thread for more information.

    Good luck!

    @silviopina – If you look at https://idmprogram.com/fasting-and-exercise-fasting-23/ you will see a small chart where protein is in blue. When fasting starts there is an uptick in protein consumption that quickly drops to lower levels about a day or two into the fast. That is likely an indication of autophagy ramping up. I’ve seen larger versions of the chart but there isn’t much detail. As simcoeluv indicated this is something that will vary from person to person.

    Also keep in mind that measuring autophagy typically requires biopsies, not something people typically enjoy. If you go through piles of research papers you will find some studies that did measure autophagy. You aren’t in for an easy search though.

    Thank you @simcoeluv, wow, so technically there is no significantl autophagy happening on a 5:2 Fast diet, especially if I fast 2 non-consecutive days. Sigh. And Yes, I am familiar with Dr Longo’s work, I also listen and read in Italian and I have his longevity recipe book. He’s here in LA, where I live, so who knows, I might be able to go to a lecture at some point. But I wouldn’t want to spend money on his marketed kit, because I think I am getting great results from the 5:2. Still, he has done some fantastic work and I really enjoy his talks. I just prefer a weekly regimen.

    Thank you @dykask. Argh! Really, biopsy? That would be a huge deterrent, haha.
    I was just hoping I had gotten myself a good set of autophagy over these 6 months of 5:2. Sounds like not so much. I had turned one of my 2 fast days into a 24 fast, in the hopes of triggering autophagy

    @silviopina, you probably have promoted autophagy. I don’t think there has been any studies that show just when it starts to ramp up. However, most things in the body are a matter of degree. There is probably always some going on. I hope that as the liver gets drained of glycogen, it doesn’t start ramping up the autophagy. It could even happen sooner than that.

    Last year I did a number of multi-day fasts with the longest being 7 days. To be honest, I didn’t feel vastly different than when I typically finish a 36 hour fast. Feeling aren’t really meaningful. Anyway the only tough part of a fast for me is typically from around 20 hours to 22 hours. Typically my blood glucose takes a dip and then recovers and often it is enough of a dip that I can feel it happening. A bit of a shift. I’m hopeful that there is also some autophagy taking place. I do notice that my body has been transforming, mostly for the positive.

    After the noticeable shift, things tends to be harder to notice. Typically by day 3 what little hunger I’ve had seems to be mostly gone or at least very muted and I’ll be in ketosis. When I fasted for 7 days, my blood glucose was much lower by day 4 and I felt fine. Normally a dip that low would leave me feeling light headed, but it wasn’t a problem, likely from the ketosis.

    However I think the consistent fasting has brought on more positive changes than the few longer fasts I’ve done.

    I’m on my 7th fast but have been messing about with this for a couple of years. I truly committed to this a few weeks ago when I realised I could no longer get in my suit. Despite thinking I could out-excersize my diet. I couldn’t.
    I basically have my 650 calories before 11am and then don’t eat until the next morning. It means I have to get through about 4 hours of feeling peckish (which gets easier) before I head to bed and then once I’ve woken, I’ve effectively fasted for nearly 21 hours. I think the thing I am discovering is that everyone has a different way of doing things, but this way seems to work for me and I like the idea my system gets a bit of a rest.

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