Amazon. Having lived as the only foreign devil in a rural Chinese village I know that you can eat just about anything, and I have. But a useful lesson I learned whilst there is that food can be good with very small amounts of meat or fish. I now try to live like that, partly because it is the only sustainable way with a world population increasing like ours and also because I don’t want too many second hand anti-biotics from the animals and heavy metals from the fish. I grow as many of my own vegetables as I can because commercially grown veg get too many dressings of pest killer. The alternative is to buy organic, which tends to be quite a bit more expensive.

It is so nice to hear from people who care about animal welfare and farming methods. The same people who have been pushing people to eat so much unhealthy food disregarding our health have been disregarding the environment and disrespecting other lifeforms. Organic food is expensive but it is so worth paying that extra to encourage farmers to use better methods for the benefit of us all and for the sake of the animals I bet I have less money than just about anyone on here and yet I buy organic food whenever it is an option. I regard it as a donation towards building a better world as well as healthier for me and my family. I believe that an organic model is scalable especially if people start eating a more appropriate amount of food and not wasting so much of what they buy. Increased price helps you focus on using everything you buy and buying only what you will use. And when you eat good food you crave good food. Restrictions for ethical reasons are actually very good for will power too. I had also cut out everything with non free range eggs in it before starting to fast which gave me a head start as it removed most sugary food from my diet ahead of time. Meat itself is very wasteful of ones calorie budget as it contains few nutrients, better to eat the plants directly and get the extra nutrients yourself rather than have the animal eat ten times the amount for you to then eat it sans best bits. The fuss over protein is so ridiculous. Cows are not exactly short of muscles are they. Where did they come from? Not from meat! It turns out that all that talk about vegetarians needing to combine foods was one author deciding to err on the side of caution because of the power of the food industries food pyramid and then getting quoted down the years. Amino acids don’t have to be eaten at the same time in perfect combinations and plants are better sources of protein than people have been led to believe. Sorry rambling a bit now. But this is so important to us all both individually and collectively that I couldn’t resist chipping in.

Lot’s of good “food’ for thought expressed here. Although I am concerned about sustainable farming and animal welfare I don’t agree that an animal products free diet is the healthiest way to go. Arguing that cows have plenty of muscles is silly, if you had a digestive system like a cow and chewed your cud all day you could make muscle form grass too. LOL

Factory farmed foods are loaded with toxins of all types, pesticides, corn feed and antibiotics. These are the real culprits in animal products. I eat organic veggies, meat, eggs and seafood low on the food chain like sardines and alaskan salmon. The animal based omega 3 fats and proteins are far superior to vegetable products. However the phytonutrients and fiber in non starchy veggies are absolutely necessary too. I say it takes the best of both worlds for optimum health

TAL yes I’m still in Clark county, although that gives me a lot of wiggle room as it is ~8000 square miles ~20,0000 square Km. I’m only about 18 miles as the crow flies from my old house.

Minka thanks for the info on emotional eating. I will follow up on it.

This last 2:1 cycle results are quite good 166.4 lbs. My lowest ever adult weight was 166.2 Lbs. I’m hoping this next cycle will set a new low. My blood ketones were only 0.9mmol before I broke my water fast. They usually run 1.5-1.8mmol. I did not do my normal 20 minute HIIT yesterday to deplete my glycogen stores.

Broke my fast with 2 slices of pan toasted sprouted bread with irish butter and a slice of cheese and four eggs over easy (free range & organic of course). I also had a fruit and veggie drink

Meat and fish eating isn’t necessary and the billions of healthy vegetarians and vegans across the world are living proof.

I don’t have a problem with eating meat, I have a problem with intensive livestock and poultry farming and over fishing and the resulting damage to the environment, plus the fact that us humans are polluting the planet at such a rate we now have plastic in the food chain.

Diverdog, there are many vegan bodybuilders who would disagree that animal products are necessary for optimal health:

http://www.vegansouls.com/vegan-bodybuilders

https://www.forksoverknives.com/vegan-bodybuilder-plant-based-diet/#gs.R_xFqnM

Being an omnivore means we have the ability to gain energy and nutrients from plants and animals. It doesn’t mean we have to 🙂

I don’t believe that anyone has suggested that eating products derived from properly raised animals is unhealthy merely that eating large quantities of it are unnecessary.

I don’t consider this discussion to be an argument but I think that in order to maintain the peace and harmony of this thread we should change the subject 🙂

Penguin, did the study go so far as to suggest that gorillas eat meat occasionally or did they not come to any conclusion as to how the DNA came to be present?

Absolutely. I think it great that we are all conscious of environmental impact and are trying to live a healthy life.

I’m happy to let it ride and to continue to help each other. BTW I love veggies and I am interested in vegetarian recipes

I’m planning a careful NFD today. I ate a little more yesterday than I’m happy about and was tempted to fast today to compensate. The trouble is, if I keep doing that, I’m going to end up in an almost alternate day fasting cycle, which is not a healthy approach for me (it really seems to drive overeating on my NFDs). I fasted Tuesday and I’m thinking I’ll fast tomorrow as my second fast. I’ve two foodie events on Sunday, so I want to be able to fast Monday and I do better with 2NFDs between fasts. Normally this is relatively easy to schedule. But this time of year it’s proving to be a bit of a challenge. My current lax attitude to what I eat on NFDs is also not helping. I feel like I’m fighting myself every NFD to eat my normal balanced meals – it’s taking a lot more willpower than usual – and too often I don’t have enough to stop myself snacking. On some level I think I believe that this is a feasting time of year, not a time for restraint and it’s a constant battle to gag that voice.

Thin and LJ, that’s the strategy I used on Saturday when we had a dinner with friends at night. It worked pretty well. I think I may use it as a rule for myself for this month, to fast until dinner on any day that I hit 60 or higher. This morning I was just under the line at 59.9. Tomorrow is my regular FD, which is a good thing because I’ll probably be over in the morning.

LJoyce, it definitely feels like a feasting time of year.

Thin & Cali, it probably will turn out the way you suggested. It’s 2:30pm here and all I’ve had is 2 pots of tea so far. I decided that despite it being a NFD I wouldn’t eat anything until I felt genuine hunger – hasn’t kicked in yet. The pattern I’ve noticed on my NFDs lately is that once I’ve eaten lunch I want to keep nibbling all afternoon, so delaying the start seemed sensible to me too.

It rained here this morning and is dry but overcast now – perfect conditions for some gardening. That should distract me until nearly dinner time.

I find if I fast all day in preparation for a meal out at dinner, I tend to go berserk with the amount I eat. But I think a NFD at home might be more easily managed. Just take my usual FD approach with a piece of fruit or maybe a kefir & fruit smoothie late afternoon to take the edge off my dinner time hunger. Then a normal dinner. I think I need to try this on my “at home” NFDs, otherwise I’ll be adding in lots of extra FDs before January.

I’ve taken a tub of chilli con carne out of the freezer for tonight’s dinner – that should be filling and satisfying.

Thin, the only non pasta meals that are usually on offer at Italian restaurants here are the tomato or cream based chicken and veal dishes – like veal scaloppini. Or minestrone soup or an antipasto platter which has lots of cured meats.

Yes Thin they usually have calamari – crumbed and deep fried.
If you’ve fasted all day I’d say just order something you know you’ll love, even if it’s something you normally wouldn’t allow yourself to eat. I personally find that if I impose too many restrictions I start to feel like I’m “owed a treat”, which is not helpful at all.

Don’t complain Penguin, you’re making up for the rest of us who appear to be heading in the other direction.

I made a big bunch of pinto beans with jalapeños, vinegar, a little cumin and probably more salt than it really needed. (But it tastes great!) I’ve been eating that for several days and all the fiber in the beans is really helping with keeping me feeling full. The protein probably helps too. I plan to make another batch of the same, or another type of legume when it’s finished because I like the results. I have it stored in a Lock and Lock container in the frig.

Amazon, I’m plowing through a plateau right now too. Most of it is due to my lax eating on some NFD.

LJoyce, I think your incredible organizing skills must relate to the statistician in you. All of my storage containers are Lock-n-Lock of different sizes. I think I need to use more zip lock bags as well. My freezer is always overpacked. One thing we have is a stack of about 8 Kringles. We can only find them certain times of the year at Trader Joe’s and they sell out quickly, so we buy a bunch and freeze them. Lately, they’ve been lasting for a long time because we cut what we want and then put them back in the freezer. (They can be easily cut frozen and thaw quickly.) It’s definitely a treat food, not something I want to eat all the time.

I was 59.9 again this morning and today is a FD, so I hoping for a good loss by morning. All my old skinny jeans from years ago fit again. And a new pair I just bought fits perfectly. The old ones never got much wear because every time I lost weight in the past, I gained it back within a year. I intend to wear them out this time!

Thin, Kringle is food porn 😁: https://store.ohdanishbakery.com/everyday-kringle-favorites/pecan-kringle?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6-ic5Z-L2AIVD8ZkCh11dQqoEAQYASABEgKthvD_BwE

LJ, Kringle can be a lot of things. I tried bakeries all over Northern Calif that had them and none of them were like the ones from O &;H Bakery’s in Wisconsin. This is what I consider to be “real” Kringle. They ship it nationwide and Trader Joe’s, a smallish chain carries it a couple times per year. Here’s a better picture of it: https://store.ohdanishbakery.com/everyday-kringle-favorites

Storing Lock-n-Lock containers is space consuming. But I like the straight sides for the frig and pantry. I see Amazon.au has a bunch of them now. I think they are one of the best products I’ve ever purchased. I love that they’re water tight. I’ve had some of mine for probably 8 or 9 years.

Cali – I’ve just realised that your kringle is very similar to what we’d call a Danish Pastry – although they come in various shapes here not just a ring. They are readily available here at lots of bakeries, but usually as small individual pastries rather than large ones. They commonly have fillings such as custard, nuts, apple, apricot or cherry. Some bakeries put white icing on top and some don’t. I prefer them without the icing and with a custard or nut filling – although I can’t remember the last time I actually ate one.
This is a reasonable representation of what is in my local bakeries: https://www.southcatering.co.uk/food/danish-pastry-selection

Day 15. A re-run of day 14. Yesterday was not a fast day and we had a festive meal with friends in the evening, but my weight is down. Being very careful about my alcohol consumption in public places is a long established habit so that may have saved me.

We eat a lot of pulses, but it had never occurred to me that they could be soaked and then frozen. The useful info isn’t just on the science thread!

Penguin, I don’t just soak the pulses before freezing, I them boil too before draining, cooling and freezing. Then they are as convenient as opening a can. In fact I think they’re better because I can use any quantity.
Well done on the alcohol avoidance when out. It’s not always easy to avoid the social pressure of drinking in company.

Well this thread is rather educational. I’ve never heard legumes called pulses before, but sure enough the dictionary assured me that the seeds of legumes are called pulses.

All of this talk of pulses makes me want to cook a pot of Bison chili with white and red beans.

I had a very enjoyable NFD yesterday with my standard breakfast of a slice of pan toasted sprouted bread, slice of cheese and two eggs over easy + a veggie drink. Lunch was tomato veggie soup with one cup of broccoli sprouts added (for the sulforaphane and fiber)dressed with 2 tbs of olive oil + a drink with 25 gm of collagen protein Dinner was 1/2 lb bison burger with a salad and one glass of wine. Last meal was finished at 4:30

I attended a cocktail party at 8:00 with loads of hors d’oeuvres and liquor but since I started my FD at 4:30 I didn’t eat anything and drank sparkling water with a twist of lime. I usually enjoy a couple of drinks when I’m out but I don’t need it for social lubricant and I had a great time.

I have another cocktail party to attend tonight and I plan to treat it the same way. Enjoying the people, music and my sparkling water.

Amazon. We don’t have to involve the rest of the English speakers. I was born and raised in the north-east. I now live in the south-west. I have to remember that my egg and bacon pie and Singing Hinnies are quiches and Welsh cakes down here. I find the Welsh Cakes a little sweeter, but my Grandmother did that sometimes. As a child the greeting to a friend was “Now Marrer”. Around here it is “How bisst Old Butt”. I did once live where it was “Ayup me Duck”

A couple of years ago I went to a conference where I spent some time with a bunch of Brits. I could understand the Londoners easily, however I could only understand about every third word from the guy from Manchester! And some of his idioms were crazy!LOL We had great fun, especially after the fourth drink!

Diverdog, I understand your difficulty with some of the UK accents. I also found I had to listen very carefully the further north I traveled. I had the most trouble in Scotland and also over in Ireland where I was lucky to pick up half of what was said. What I found interesting in my conversations with the B&B owners where I was staying in Dublin, was that although I struggled to understand them, they understood me clearly because they watch more Australian soap operas than we do. They were shocked when I was unable to tell them what was coming up in the story-line, because I’ve never watched them.
In the last few years that I was working I had voice recognition software on my work computer. When the software was installed it goes through a process of identifying your accent so that it can understand your voice commands. It classified my accent as British, even though I’ve never lived anywhere other than South Australia. I never understood that, although when I’ve travelled overseas all of the Americans I met thought I was British rather than Australian. I promise I sound the same as the majority of other South Australians.