I've reached a point where I could use some encouragement and/or guidance

This topic contains 16 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by NothingToLoseButMyFat 8 years, 5 months ago.

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Cayenne

11:33 am
17 Jun 16
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Hi!

I’ve reached a point in my 5:2 attempt where I could use some encouragement and/or guidance regarding what I’m doing wrong.

I’m 40 years old, 163 cm tall and I weigh 82kg (that’s 12.9 stone, I think).

I’ve been trying the 5:2 for a month now and have not yet lost a single gram. For the first two weeks, I did 5:2. I fasted on Mondays and Thursdays and ate normal (but without counting calories) during the remaining days of the week.

Since there was no result, I decided to up it to 4:3 and have been fasting Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays for the last two weeks.

Because of the lack of results, I also started to weigh and count calories during the non-fasting days too, and my calorie count varies from 1400 kcal to 2000 kcal per day. The 2000 day was the exception, not the rule. I have been eating like normal during the non-fasting days, I’ve just kept closer track on what I actually consume on a daily basis.

My weight has been stable for the past year with an intake of 1400-2000 kcal per day, so I assumed that 2 (or 3) fasting days would create a weekly calorie deficiency that would be visible on the scale. But it doesn’t.

And like I said initially, I’m at a loss and I’m losing motivation to continue and I could really, really, use some encouragement or hear about others who have experienced the same, and how/if you eventually found a solution that helped you lose weight.

Fuvvie

12:10 pm
17 Jun 16
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Hello Cayenne,
I’m no expert,, but after reading Jason Fung and watching his YouTube Aetiology of Obesity, I’m wondering if your calories are comprised of refined carbs as opposed to your fruit vegetables and protein in moderate amounts. It can make a huge difference. I’m sure simcoeluv and big booty will give you good advice. They have certainly pointed many a person on this forum in the right direction. Have you read “Tthe Fast Diet”? Don’t. Give. Up. It’s worth thee effort in the long run. Good luck.

Fuvvie

12:17 pm
17 Jun 16
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And maybe you are losing centimetres.. It’s worth doing the measurements. Have you worked out your TDEE with the tracker on the top right of the screen? That could help you to work out how many calories you could eat up to in a day.

Cayenne

12:45 pm
17 Jun 16
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Thank you for replying! 🙂

I wish I could say ‘yes, that’s probably it’, but…no…unfortunately.

We’re already living on a low-carb diet naturally and make use of very little sugar and ready-made food. We bake our own bread (and we consume perhaps half a loaf per week). IF we have starch for our dinner (maybe two times per week?), we use brown rice and wholewheat pasta (and those portions I always weigh, even before 5:2 because I known myself well enough to know I’d like to eat more than I should according to my calorie count). But most days we only have fresh green salads (we’re vegetable producing farmers).

We don’t eat cereals, except for unsweetened oats in the mornings (40gr is my portion). And our sweets are normally home-made fresh fruit salads, also unsweetened, so that can’t be it.

Also, nope…haven’t lost a cm yet. Actually, I increased one cm around my waist from last week to this week.

I’ve been dieting on and off for the past two decades. I get periods when I’m able to build up the determination and self-discipline and I shed some kgs. Then, I typically, become lazy with my calorie counting and I gain them again.

5:2 sounds like such a doable diet to me. I have no problems with the fasting itself and it would be so amazing if I could eat normally the rest of the week and know that these two days (or even three) are designated for fasting.

NothingToLoseButMyFat

1:20 pm
17 Jun 16
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Hi Cayenne, I’m relatively new to this way of eating but I would urge you to not lose heart. I’m sure you’ll find a way of making it work for you. A couple of observations.
1) how much do you have to lose? People like me with a large amount to lose find it comes off easily at first but you look much closer to a healthy weight if I am reading it right. Often that is slower.
2) looks like you have a healthy diet in terms of balancing it and avoiding many refined carbs. I wouldn’t suggest that you have this in any way wrong. Some people on this forum will suggest further carb restrictions though, it’s up to you what advice you take
3) have you worked out your BMR? If you eat less than that on your NFDs you can slip into the old starvation type diet which plays havoc with normal metabolism.

Don’t give up. It will click into place for you and don’t forget the health benefits you will gain regardless of weight loss

Cayenne

1:39 pm
17 Jun 16
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Hey!

I still have a bit of motivation left. I just need to try to find a solution and see some results quite soon in order to maintain the self-discipline it requires to hang in there. 😉

These are my figures:

Your BMI is: 30.9
Your BMR is: 6183 kJ / 1478 calories
Your TDEE is: 7419 kJ / 1773 calories

So my BMI definitely suggests I could benefit from losing weight. If I lose 10 kg I’m still considered overweight according the BMI calculator.

My TDEE is smack bang in the middle of my daily average on normal eating days. Argh! *Pulling my hair*

I have considered whether I’ve finally managed to mess up my body to the point that my metabolism has slowed down and that it has, somehow, miraculously, learned to live on air during my fasting days.

NothingToLoseButMyFat

2:24 pm
17 Jun 16
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Hi Cayenne, you said in your first post that you ate between 1400 calories per NFD and 2000 on an exceptional NFD. Your figures suggest you should eat between 1478 and 1773 each NFD. As I understand it if you average more than that(doesn’t look like your problem) you negate the fast days and risk putting on further weight. I suspect your problem may be averaging less than that and your body thinking it’s in starvation mode which this way of eating is designed to avoid, although it’s all too common in other diets. If that isn’t the case then I think you should still keep at basic 5:2 for a couple of weeks to see if the loss kicks in. It may suddenly do so as our bodies are anything but simple, predictable machines. If you get nowhere then people on this forum who have been doing this for a while have some variations that have worked for them.

Cayenne

2:40 pm
17 Jun 16
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I’ll try to increase my average daily calorie count to be at least 1800 by adding more proteins and fats. I think I am very close to this already, but If I see I’m low a handful of nuts will probably help me bounce over most days.

NothingToLoseButMyFat

3:05 pm
17 Jun 16
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Good luck. Keep us posted

HappyNow

3:11 pm
17 Jun 16
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Hmm, I’m not sure eating more is the answer! If you are eating between 1400 – 2000 calories on non-fast days then, and looking at your BMR/TDEE numbers, you certainly don’t appear to be undereating.

You say you have dieted on and off for the past two decades (presumably with regain in between?). If so, then the damage to your metabolism will already have been done and it is more likely that your real world TDEE is lower than the average person calculator predicts.

Before you run off to eat more, what are you eating on fast days? And how are you splitting your eating over the day? Are you on any medication? Do you have health issues?

I certainly don’t think you’ve provided enough information yet to allow anyone to advise properly.

Cayenne

3:42 pm
17 Jun 16
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During the first couple of weeks I experimented quite bit, but eventually I settled on delaying any food intake for as long as possible. If I had anything for breakfast it would just make me hungrier and it was harder to fast the rest of the day so for the last two weeks, I’ve started the day with a cup of coffee (black, no sugar). This one is no-negotiable. 😉 Then I’ve drinking green teas to ‘fill me up’ up to around lunch time. At lunch time I eat a bit of natural yoghurt, with 20gr oats and perhaps a bit of cooked ham (20gr) or I add a bit of artificial sweetener or some pieces of apple. It depends if I have a salt tooth or sweet tooth. This amounts to 150-170 kcals. Then I eat meat and a green salad for supper. Sometimes I add a bit of salad dressing.

If I get a salt craving during the day, I occasionally have one of those instant light tomato soups (30kcal/cup). I adjust my supper to make sure I’m within the 500 kcal. I never have any starch with my meat and salad on fasting days, but I do occasionally add broccoli or cauliflower in addition to the fresh salad. Somehow it fills more than just the lettuce and cucumber.

I currently don’t have any kind of health problems (except my extra kg). I used to have a persistent mononucleosis that stuck with me for the best part of two years, but it’s more than 8 months since my last relapse and I’m feeling great. I have more energy than I’ve had for a long time (that was before I started 5:2. I’ve been having a good half year) and life, in general, is good.

Apricot

6:16 pm
17 Jun 16
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I was just thinking out a reply when I came on Happynow’s post and found she’d said it already. Yes, I think she is probably right.
My height and starting weight are the same as yours, and my TDEE as well, though I’m a lot older. Unlike many here, I lost very slowly right from the start, having a plateau after only three weeks. I put this down to having dieted too often before, as Happy says. Sigh! Since then it’s been coming off in fits and starts, often with a little rise or a plateau, but on the advice of others here I just kept going, (what’s to lose?) and it’s averaged a lb a week. I’m keeping my carbs fairly low but not at ketogenic style levels except on FDs; and on non FDs I seem to eat between 1200 and 1600cals, though I only measure out of curiosity, going over this only once. On FDs I have no carby foods or sweet things at all, so only what’s in vegetables and I’ve had three pieces of bread in the last fortnight on non FDs. I’ve stopped having porridge oats for breakfast but do sprinkle oat bran onto natural yogurt, along with nuts, seeds and sometimes berries, or else have eggs. So pretty much BigBooty’s advice on another thread. Occasionally I do 4:3 If I’ve plateaued and that does seem to start it off again.
I think you should check again what you eat on nonFDs as well as how much. Write it all down carefully for a week, weighing foods too, just to get a clear picture. In MyFitPal or Fitbit recording it gives a nutrient breakdown (not very accurate but a broad guide) so you can see what the % of each is. Good luck, you’ll get there if you persevere.

Cayenne

7:01 pm
17 Jun 16
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Hi Apricot!

I’ve been weighing and reporting my food every day for the last two weeks, as a way to try to find the problem myself. And it does vary some from day to day, but the average must be around 16-1700. I have not attempted to reduce the carbs, since I’m naturally on the low end of the scale. I’m member of a different weight loss community as well and use their food registration and weight/measurement registration, so I have a pretty good idea what I’m consuming. And if I see I’m low on dairy, for instance, I drink milk. If I see I’ve had too little proteins during that day, I try to compensate for it during my supper etc etc. You’re a long-term dieter, you know what it’s like. 😉

All the weighing and measuring is of course one of the habits that stick after so many years of on-off dieting. Calorie-counting become a natural part (an obsession) of life.

I’ve clearly managed to find a food intake level where I can remain stable over time because my weight has been hovering around 80-82 for the past three years now, without me making any dieting efforts at all. The mono and all just sapped me of the will to be very conscious. Still, all my dieting years have given me some ability to measure by looking at portions, of course.

But now, life is good. We’re about to make a huge change in our lives and we’re excited about the new opportunities. With that came the determination to try to shed these kg that I’ve left alone for the past years.

5:2 feels (felt?) like such a doable diet to me, and since I’ve found my threshold for keeping my weight stable, I thought/hoped that 2 days of fasting per week would make a difference.

I will try to skip the oats on NFDs and try oat bran instead of oats in my yoghurt.

And try to hang in there and hopefully reach that plateau to restore my motivation.

NothingToLoseButMyFat

7:42 pm
17 Jun 16
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So, now you have some advice from people who have been doing this a lot longer.
My only concern is that you don’t restrict too much and do something not sustainable and possibly detrimental. That’s why I said your average daily intake on non fast days needs to be above BMR.
I would still advocate doing “vanilla” 5:2 for a little longer and give it a chance. I’m sure the weight will start to come off but I do understand the frustration. It’s up to you what advice you take; your body, your life!
For me, I am determined not to get into highly restrictive and proscriptive dieting as it means I won’t be able to sustain it. That means I have to accept it’s going to be slow.
I wish you success whatever methods you choose!

HappyNow

9:13 pm
17 Jun 16
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Nothing,

I’m not advocating a highly restrictive daily calorie restriction regime, just pointing out that eating more food is unlikely to lead to weight loss. Cayenne appears to be eating to TDEE or thereabouts already. I agree, give it time. If Cayenne really is achieving a calorie deficit of perhaps 1200 on a fast day, and doing 2 to 3 fasts per week, then she should be losing somewhere between a half and a whole pound per week.

Intermittent fasting is a way of life, not a quick fix diet, and there are other benefits besides weight loss. I’ve been maintaining my loss for two years now, and don’t need to fast even once a week during summer, but I miss fasting when I don’t! Keep going and you won’t want to stop 😀

Cayenne, have you read Jason Fung’s blogs or book The Obesity Code? Very illuminating about insulin/ fat storage, and may give you some extra motivation to keep fasting.

Cayenne

10:51 am
18 Jun 16
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NothingToLoseButMyFat said:
For me, I am determined not to get into highly restrictive and proscriptive dieting as it means I won’t be able to sustain it. That means I have to accept it’s going to be slow.

Yes, exactly. This is, in essence, what tempted me to try 5:2.

To fast two days per week without making more changes to my diet (since it is stable at the moment, but I want to lose weight), is SO DOABLE. I will always, even if there are special occasions manage to fast two days during a week. It can be adjusted to whichever days that fit my schedule. And during the NFD I can eat like normal, doing regular checks on my own eye measurements to make sure that I’m within a certain calorie range, but still…I’ll have five days per week when I need to use common sense, and two days when I know I’m fasting and be conscious about it. Easy! Fantastic concept! I jumped on it super-eager and optimistic.

But it seems that…it’s not that easy after all. The suggestions, although differing a bit, generally suggests further changes in my diet. And some of them might be harder for me to implement than two fasting days, to be honest.

I can do slow, but one month in…I’m still at status quo, even after two weeks of 4:3. And that’s not even slow. I never had any intention of continuing with 4:3 for long, but I was hoping it could kick-start something and that I’d see results and become more motivated.

There are other benefits.

I never ever crave chocolate on a fasting day. It’s so easy to stay away from it, and I’m normally fighting a continuous battle against my sweet tooth. For three days per week (when I’m doing 4:3) my cravings are silent. Oh bliss!

I think my stomach is getting smaller. At least it feels natural to eat less during NFD (which might not be a good thing if I’m currently under-eating, but in general I’m happy about this).

I’m generally positive to fasting. I’m much more skeptical to extreme low-carb diets. I believe in the balanced diet.

I don’t have any negative side-effects. I’m not feeling weak or exhausted and I’m able to keep up my daily schedule and activity level on a fasting day.

All in all, I like the approach and I really want to make it work. But I AM in it for the weight loss and if that doesn’t happen, I’ll have to buckle up and consider a programme with a small daily calorie deficiency instead. I’m just really hoping that I can avoid going back to weighing every single piece of food for months and months, and constantly be painfully aware that one slip-up will negate the effect of the entire week.

NothingToLoseButMyFat

12:42 pm
19 Jun 16
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Cayenne, you seem to me to have a very sensible outlook on this. It is doable but I can understand it is frustrating if so far you are seeing no change on the scales. I am very overweight and am seeing 1 to 1 1/2 lbs only per week, so it’s a long road for me. I’m sure the weight loss will kick in for you. I am strongly against more calorie restriction on NFDs and modifying the diet so it is no longer truly balanced and hard to sustain long term. But we all have different views on this and some people have been very successful going very low carb; it’s just not for me.
Good luck whatever you choose.