Hi goldmoon and all the other respondes,

I am sorry that I cannot add to the discussion; personally I found it interesting and thought-provoking. As I said, I’m sorry that I could not add to it, I do not consider myself to be an intellectual (aka I do not have the gift of the gab, lol) but I thank you all for your intriguing thoughts nonetheless.

I *do* relate to: “am one of those who can’t control my weight, and I am certain it is because of the stress-effects” I feel for you. The one thing I really like about this diet is that *I* say when my fast days are and *I* say what I eat on those days. That control means so much to me on many levels that I intend to continue on the FD to the New Year and beyond (was tempted to say ‘to infinity & beyond’ but would be lowering the tone, lol).

In an aside, on topic, in the past five weeks on 5:2 then 4:3, I felt so peculiar, as a pre-menopausal female, I did a pregnancy test at the weekend. At 48, I didn’t know how I would feel about that. It was negative. I still don’t know how I feel about that.

Thank god the internet is anonymous!

Good luck to us all,
Aud x

I am writing this comment for those who can relate to my experience and/or who can evaluate it in a rational/objective way rather trying to “correct” it via their own subjective perspective.

My report can be probably used by those researchers of this diet who would be interested to work towards a real solution for cases like mine. Maybe later on this diet will be more refined and can be adjusted to more factors than just the women-men distinction. As I mentioned before, I think there is a huge challenge here, how to fight the weight-gain problems resulting from stress.

It seems to me that individual factors play a relevant part also as to the success of this diet. Both nature and nurture, one’s own genetically inherited features, hormonal conditions, or other physical subconscious reaction to a certain memory or life situation, might determine if one can attain weight loss via this diet or another.

Based on my own research and observation I do believe that many post-menopausal (PM) women are in my situation; they are unable to lose weight without a major sacrifice, that is, without a regular drastic calorie reduction, which however makes one depleted and sluggish, unable to function, unable to do housework, let alone doing the due regular workout exercises, which would be however a must in our situation.

Of course there are exceptions to this rule but exceptions do NOT make a rule. I personally have a friend who is definitely an exception. She is also PM and she reports no weight-gain issues whatsoever. She doesn’t need either this diet or another to stay in shape. She is also into regular exercises, she can eat as much as she wants, and as she says, her “issue” is the opposite: she can’t gain weight even if she attempts to. Her husband regularly takes her for extra dessert eat-outs in attempt to make her look a little “healthier”. She even needed medical checks for being too thin, but luckily she is fine. And she often dresses in her twenty-something daughter’s clothes …
On a side note, this particular friend of mine has been raised in a supportive family and in a rewarding social environment – that is, she has the exact opposite past as I have had. Can be coincidence, but imo it isn’t. I do believe that it is due to a certain body-stress when someone can’t maintain her normal weight and one’s long term exposure to stress and traumas often manifests after one’s reaching the PM status. For example more intense and more frequent hot flashes are reported by women who also experience panic attacks.

I have another friend who is in same age group, over fifty – though not yet PM – and recently she did start to experience some weight-gain issues. For her, at least for now, the 5:2 diet seems to be the solution. For her 5:2 worked like a charm and worked with immediate effect. She can easily wing through the fasting days and she can eat as much as she desires on feast days. Nota bene, she is not a big eater as I am although can afford eating candies. If I would eat the amount of sugar she does, I would weigh my twice.

Now she is almost as thin as she was in her twenties. But since she also comes from a dysfunctional family, hence I am almost certain she might have similar difficulties later as I do now. (Although this diet might prevent her from it, so I do encourage her to stay with 5:2)

I think the same would have been the case for me too. This diet would have probably worked for me before I reached PM phase and I could have bypassed the current difficult situation. This diet would have presented me the same big challenge as to following it, but at least the positive results would have kept me more motivated.

At present however is different. I called this method severe or drastic because to me it is excruciating to stay away from food and to dramatically reduce the calorie intake on fasting days, yet it delivers NO RESULT. I have tried different eating schedules, but they all yield the same effect. Recently on fasting days I try to be without eating as long as I can, but as soon as I eat a little, after the first bite I get extremely hungry (pls underline this twice). Often I feel physically sick when I force myself to stop eating at 500 calories.

Then during the fasting hours what I experience is probably the same for all of us: I reach the pivotal point beyond which I lose my hunger. During that time I lose a lot of the retained water, and that makes me feel lighter, temporarily. (Oh boy I figured that light feeling is my main motivation!) The trouble is, while I feel lighter I also feel sluggish, sleepy, deprived of energy. Often I feel too weak to fix a meal in the kitchen.

Thereafter, paradoxically, the feast day gets even worse. In the morning I am still not hungry, hurray, so I press on with not eating until hunger sets in again. Earlier I ate breakfast, but that didn’t work either. Any time when on a feast day I finally get to eat a normal meal again: my body immediately extends into its usual width, I feel heavy as usual (probably my body accumulates all the water there is), meanwhile I get hungrier than ever, so going through the feast day by keeping at the normal calories limit is the same of even bigger challenge than keeping the 500 calorie limit on a fast day.

This is now the fifth week I am trying 5:2 diet, and so far I have gone through the exact same scenario. In fact, based upon the kind advice/hint I got on this forum, I added an extra day, so this time I am looking at a 4:3 week. Yesterday I had a feast day, which I did keep within the calorie limit, albeit with great efforts, and yesterday I did my usual workout and HIT. Yet, after yesterday’s “feast day” I am back at square one, or should I say, at the round one. I am already again my usual blown-up self.
So today I feel compelled to add another day to my 4:3, which would yield a 3:4 regime. If next time ends up the same, I might add another fast day, which would yield a 2:5 regime. And so forth.

To get ahead of any more judgemental and non-supportive reactions to my report, I need to emphasize again, this is not due to my “negative” attitude; this is my very own experience, despite my very positive attitude towards this diet.
In the past I had a period in my life when I had literally nothing to eat for days, when in my country (an Eastern European country that was essentially colonised by the West right after the so called “system change”) there were no jobs and opportunities for most native folks, and my family put me on the street. So I am aware as hell what it means to be without food for days, albeit, being without food NOT upon choice but by the cruelty of society.

Since I know about fasting, I am really trying this fast-diet as my last resort, and still in the hopes to see some difference despite the fact that I am much more resistant to fasting than I was. I do feel that I could lose weight and remain that way only if I would follow something like a 0:7 diet – that is by severe calorie reduction each day, but that would make me unable to function, let alone enjoying life. It seems that now more than ever my body wants to eat the big portions that it used to get while I was young and was into intensive sport. I don’t even have a wild guess why it is so. And when I thought I will have to give up any diet sooner or later anyway, that’s what I meant.

As for Stef’s argument: I do understand that avoiding a most painful death is indeed a strong motivation to follow any diet, either this or another one, but until now I never heard of this as a prospect for all overweight people. I don’t recall this mentioned anywhere I encountered via my own research and I don’t remember Dr Mosley mentioning this either. My family-doctor never mentioned it either, she said I should seek self-acceptance, if I feel losing weight is not an option.

Yet I do respect this motivation as someone’s own perspective. The last thing that would come to my mind is to judge Stef for her own personal reasons that she honestly shared with us. I did the same, I shared my own experience and my own reasons/perspective on how and why I’ve got so discouraged. Then in addition to the helpful and supportive replies, which I am really grateful for, I received some utterly abusive and patronising responses, which is a sheer disgrace towards a serious, and meant-to-be sopportive forum like this.

As for my remarks that women of our age are a segment of society that is considered “scrap”: this is an objectively true fact. Most women are discriminated against even in our “liberalised” society, and many of us are severely abused and left without opportunity to reach anywhere. This is sheer reality for the majority of women. I thought it was obvious that my remark was a criticism of this negative society rather than a criticism of ourselves.

Another fact is, both women and the older age groups are considered second class citizens – to say the least – in this no-culture Western culture. Now if we combine these two categories and add to them the pejorative label due for overweight folks, what do we get? The term I used pretty much describes it …

goldmoon

Goldmoon, beadybliss raises some interesting points: I assume you got checked out at some point and the reason for the lack of loosing weight is not because something such as your gall bladder or thyroid is not working properly. My friend had a thyroid problem and that caused her to gain weight? I have just re-read your first post and apparently all is honkey dorey? Quite often though they do not test for thyroid problems.

On another note: I did NOT mean to sound to theatrical with “living with pain/problems at an advanced age” (I did not say “avoiding a most painful death “)but I believe there are things that might make your life at a more advanced age easier.

One other thing: when one says 500 kcal, this is meant as approximately 25% of your TDE. If your TDE is over 2000kcal then you can eat a bit more on your fast days? Perhaps this helps with feeling dizzy and hungry.

Finally, I do agree: we are all different and this lifestyle works better for some than for others, but I also believe – at least for me, giving it a good try might be worth it.

Did you loose inches around you waist? Some people report that they did not loose weight but inches. You have “just” done it for four weeks and perhaps it just takes your body a bit longer to react?

Stef.

Looks like my cheers have been unfounded.

I have tried to return to original 5:2 regime but as soon as I started eating as per schedule on normal days – these 5 days are anything but “feast” either – I immediately gained all the weight back.

Am starting to think that no doable diet exists for post-menopausal women.
I either have to stop eating altogether and try to live on vitamins, or just patiently endure my new “normal” weight.

It’s clearly unimaginable how my body is capable to sustain itself without food. Sometimes am wondering, if my system doesn’t need any intake, why do I get hungry at all? Makes no sense.

Is there anyone else with the same experience as I have described in this and my former posts, or I am really the only P-M woman for whom this method doesn’t work?

I have heard that dr. Mosley published a new book on the Fast diet.
Can anyone tell me if the new book could help, if it offers a solution for cases like mine? Is there something I should try that is practically possible and sustainable in the long run?

Thanks in advance for reading and for any advice. 🙂

Wow, this is a great section of the forum. I have been having a savage run through menopause, with headaches, hot flushes, you name it. I went on the Patch for awhile, but it stopped working and when I upped the dosage, my breathing got painful so I took the patch off and am going without any relief. Did I say I hate the change of life? I hate it. Passionately.
Now, I have lost about 20 lb on the Atkins Diet (using fat fast), and no alcohol. I have been trying 5:2 for almost four weeks and have lost about 2 kilos. Part of that was Christmas weight. But, I have been s.l.o.w.l.y. losing weight. I also want to continue the 5:2 diet to see whether it can lower my cholesterol. I am going to do eight weeks in total, and then go and get my blood tested.
I am 173 cm tall and weigh about 74 kilos. My goal is 67 kilos (fairy tale). I would settle for 69 – 70 kilos.
I detest the belly fat that has latched itself onto my previously tiny waist. I walk most days, but have had a cold lately so have missed some walking days.
Anyway, I wanted to vent here, and to say to others who are going through menopause that I feel your pain. I also wanted to say that losing weight IS possible. I weigh myself most days, and when the scales start to say I am gaining weight, I can easily cut out the wine, and a week usually sees me back on track.
So watch this space. I will be back in another four weeks to tell you what my cholesterol results are.
Peace.

Sylvestra and Everyone responding recently and earlier: Many thanks for your kind replies, insights, hints and suggestions.

Sylvestra: I absolutely agree: in my particular case the best is just to give it a rest, at least for a while. Indeed, this method apparently does not work for me; a fact I found very difficult to accept due to the fact that both the individual testimonies and objective research indicate that my case is unique and the regime does work for everyone else.

My case seems even more astonishing if we consider that on the non-fast (‘feast’) days my calorie-intake remained *significantly below* my TDEE limit, and thanks to my past experience in professional sport, I do regular high-intensity and diverse workout: 50-60 min 5-6 times a week.
I did lose a small amount of weight during the past months of experimenting with the diet, so I can confirm that inasmuch as it works, it does via an extremely gradual process.

The suggestion to see a nutritionist for individual solution sounds great, and yes, I will see my doctor again for further advice.

Suefrocks: I will look into Dr. Glenville’s regime – thank you for the hint. Sounds very promising!

hi – jumping into this group too, on LOACA…. appreciate all the insight, do also appreciate a 5:2 focus from our midlife perspective, and want to ask BeadyBliss, who posted the ‘goods’ on 12/13/13 about her specific plan if she shifted to 4:3 from 5:2 or started w/ MWF program right away? Or anyone else with a view on this.

I’ve been on 5:2 7 months now & love it, about 22 lbs down, at least a full clothing size, look & feel better/different, but have been plateauing for so long now, struggling with same 2 or 3 up/down since Feb. no real progress in 2 months. I follow my TDEE on non-fast days, do HIIT workout 2x a week and hour hikes 3x week, reasonably active and otherwise healthy. Just want to keep my groove going and it’s been stuck in rut. Going for GP eval soon and appreciate anyone’s insights on moving the needle w/o losing your mind! I’m on Cal/PST time so across the pond you’re asleep, and hopefully lighter when you wake up! Cheers!

Another personal viewpoint, but I agree, they are important to help us keep in the right mindset!
Mid menopause, it is certainly harder to lose weight, but having done so many diets in my life, it is great to find something easy to fit into life, and easy to see as a part of life in the long term.
Providing:
You have an accurate idea of what is going in (I use nutracheck when things plateauing, just to help me remember),
You are not too tough on yourself when things don’t work out (after all we’re in this for the long term. If weight loss is only 1oz a week, it is still moving in the right direction…or a gain of 2lb in a week, then a month in which you lose 3lb, is also weight loss overall),
You understand that water fluctuations in your body will have more of a short term effect than fat fluctuation…you may only measure losses every few weeks, with loss happening in larger chunks than expected),
You understand that if you are not losing weight, then you have underestimated either how much you are taking in, or overestimated how much you need take in),
You are realistic…
You will succeed.
I am, I suspect nearing the end of my menopause. Early- I’m 47. Hot flushes reduced from nearly persistent to just a couple a day.
I have lost 21lb, another 17 to go. 4 months, many weeks with no loss. No significant loss until I started doing 4:3. Then 9lb loss in 2 weeks (most of this would have been water which returns from time to time). Now on 4:3, with clear knowledge of what I can eat, 1lb loss a week or less. Ideal weight target of September, but who knows, might end up as 2015! Once weight loss achieved, aim for weight maintenance using 5:2 and 6:1 to suit events surrounding life!

I did the 5:2 diet for 18 months, am now 50 and menopausal/post menopausal (hard to tell because I had a hysterectomy a few years ago). I lost about 18 lbs and continued to do a maintenance 5:2 diet. Unfortunately even though I carried on doing the diet, I started to gain weight. I have not weighed myself as my trainer has told me not to but have a muffin top and my jeans are tighter and my breasts have gone up a size. I am totally demoralised with it all and my trainer has told me to stop doing the diet and eat a balanced diet. Research has shown that the 5:2 can affect your hormones and that it might not be a good idea to do when you are menopausal. All I know is that I am so disappointed because I thought that I had found a diet that works – for life but it appears not!!!!!!

Hi simcoeluv

Sorry to contradict what you are saying but I have checked my TDEE five days a week and my trainer has taken a close look to make sure that what I am eating is within the amount I should be eating and is healthy. I exercise regularly with weights and cardio and the diet did work but then it stopped. I have checked on the maintenance site and have messaged thefastdiet but have received no advice that I have not already tried apart from increasing my fasting days. All I know is that now my trousers are getting tighter and I am totally fed up and demoralised.

Hi Simcoeluv

Thanks for your advice – but again I would reiterate I am definitely not going over my TDEE in a day (I used the one on your site). My trainer is highly experienced and I do not eat back calories. Yes, I have been exercising since I was a teenager but it is only the last few years I have had problems with weight gain. I will however pass on your comments to my trainer who has himself condoned the 5:2 diet. Unfortunately, he could see that it was no longer working for me as I had started gaining weight on it.

I was hoping that I would be able to find a solution to my weight gain by posting on the forum but that does not seem to be the case.

Hi Inverary and Sim

Isn’t there advice somewhere to eat TDEE at target weight rather than current weight, which surely must change continually with weight loss.

Having a small mountain of lard to lose, I must say I found my target TDEE scary (which would entail eating at about 80% of my target weight on 5:2), so I’m doing it at a stone a time, ie at 12 stone I used TDEE at 10 stone, at 11 stone, move to 9 stone TDEE. Hopefully when I reach target will be used to eating around target.

Maybe not scientific, but logical.

I’ve used the lowest TDEE throughout even though I have become less and less sedentary, as I think the level of activity is subjective and guesswork.

I’m losing weight steadily, doing fast beach diet gave me a push downwards.

Makes me think, instead of wondering why you are gaining and believing 5:2 isn’t working, work out what you can change to make it work, as Sim advised – he does talk – write – a huge amount of sense, and it really is eat less than you need to sustain your current weight.

To test the theory, why not try a 48 hour water fast? I’be only done this a couple of times, it is a simple variation of 5:2, and it might give you a sharp kick to get you started again.

Feel free to tell me I’m talking tosh, but you invested a lot of time and effort, I do hope you get to the end of your journey, gives the rest of us hope!

Inverary, hi again, are you in Scotland btw?

48 hour fasts sound so much harder than they are, daunting to second breakfast people like I was, I did a couple of 36 hours first, must say I count the minutes.

I dont think Sim is arguing, he just talks straight, once you are used to him, you’ll appreciate he’s a font of knowledge and being incredibly helpful. If you go back into the threads youll see he has a great sense of humour too. Sim, we need to see the humour more! Lol!!!

Sorry can’t help with maintenance, that’s the hard part, I would think, but there is great advice on that thread. Good luck!

Hi milena:

Thanks for the compliment. I’m just finishing a 4 day water fast so I’m a bit grumpy today. I probably shouldn’t even be posting.

Take care.

I double checked my tdee – it’s 1946 and my bmi is 1256.

Hi Inverarary:

Your TDEE sounds very, very high given your bmi. I think you may be giving yourself too much credit for your exercise. My TDEE thread contains a post that gives an idea of how much exercise goes with what ‘level’ you should enter into the calculator. For instance, walking 5 miles a day, 7 days a week, puts you right on the border between lightly active and moderately active. I would use lightly active for your activity level and see what that gives you for a TDEE.

Hi Inverary,

Have you had any body composition assessments done? Given your age and that you may have gone through the menopause, you may have lost muscle mass and now need less food to maintain? (Sorry if you are already consuming fewer calories than previously!)

Have you had any blood tests recently? A number of things could be interfering with weight loss and maintenance, including hypothyroidism and insulin resistance/pre-diabetes/diabetes.

Finally, and if the above doesn’t apply, then I’m not sure what you have to lose by accepting Simco’s answer (at least temporarily) and experimenting with reducing calories? Try it for a few weeks. If you’re still gaining weight then at least you can rule out the possibility that you are overeating. I don’t think you can blame the diet without exploring other possibilities?

Thanks Simcoeluv

I’ll follow your advice, I’m right at the beginning of researching fasting but a great deal resonates as sense. I’m quite fortunate that I’m reasonably healthy, slight problems with swollen legs, hence the push to lose weight. Happy with loss, actually inspired to go to a weight which, while well within BMI, seemed at first to be beyond consideration, but now absolutely logical.

I say reasonably healthy, but in the last ten years have been to the doctors twice. apart from screening checks, once for swollen hands, a reaction to metal, the other time about my legs (advice – lose weight!)

Menopause begun and ended with a couple of hot flushes.

So either remarkably well or remarkably ignorant, hoping it’s the former and hoping to stay this way! Family history, deaths from smoking or work related illnesses, one relative in last 60 years Alzheimer’s – huge family. So staking my bet on a long life, up to me to make it as healthy as possible. Serious stuff. Heading up to that top diving board when I’ve researched more and I’m organized – hopefully will be reporting back soon!, Thank you.

Looking at the lastest exchanges and to add my tuppence-worth, I think we all have to factor in the sad fact that when we hit the menopause, our metabolism slows down, and we have a need for significantly fewer calories.

I quote the experience of a healthy, active friend who hit the menopause 10 years ago. She had never needed to watch her weight but noticed weight gain. She ended up replacing all alcohol with water and cutting out all sweet things, finding the need to eliminate several hundred calories from her daily intake to maintain her normal weight, with no lifestyle changes.

I am experiencing a similar change, but am now trying to control my weight with the 5:2 (having done the 4:3 to lose weight), with the added bonus that this regime keeps my hot flushes in check. So far so good…!