Down – Stall – Up, Up, UP!

This topic contains 42 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by she_said 10 years, 8 months ago.

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ThisDietDoesntWork

2:01 pm
2 Mar 14
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My experience – astonishing for first few months. Then it stalled. Before the diet, I was already consuming fewer calories than some experts recommend for my size, and this diet was lower still, but I kept to it. Six weeks into the stall, so a total of six months into the diet, I gave up, as I was just too hungry to carry on. I returned to my usual diet (which for over 20 years has been broadly Mediterranean, lots of F&V) but now with much less sugar. But despite still eating too little, I’ve put on all the weight I lost, plus an extra eight pounds. My calorific intake cannot explain this weight gain. I simply have not consumed enough calories in the four months since stopping to have gained anything like the 26lbs (TWENTY-SIX POUNDS GAINED IN FOUR MONTHS) increase since the Fast Diet stalled. This has been the fastest weight gain of my life.

What a waste of time, money, effort, and hope to find that this diet is just like all the others. Six months in, the effect is reversed, and the resultant metabolic damage makes weight gain more likely. There is a talk by a neurologist on TED.com that explains why no diet, even this one, can work.

All diets, this too, are missing something fundamental. Avoid all dieting and especially fads like this. I challenge this site to publish this post in full.

Lindyw

3:27 pm
2 Mar 14
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I am sorry you have had such a bad experience, but I think you will find several people on this forum who have had exactly the opposite.
You say your calorie intake since giving up 5:2 has not been enough to gain 26lb in 4 months yet you have. This suggests to me 1)you have made a mistake somewhere in counting your calories, 2)your scales don’t work, 3) most importantly – there may be something medically wrong with you and a visit to your doctor is necessary.
One thing you definitely have wrong – this is not a diet. It is a lifestyle that includes fasting with lots of health benefits plus the added side effect of losing weight (slowly not fast)
You don’t give us any of your measurements so we cannot help or advise you on how to change whatever it is you are doing.
I challenge YOU to answer this post in a friendly (we didn’t make you heavier)way so that someone may be able to address your problems.

Angie090465

3:47 pm
2 Mar 14
Permalink

Well said Lindyw, I thought about posting a reply but just didn’t know where to start lol, so much negativity!!!!!!!!!!!

to me its obvious, if you stop, it stops working, end of. 🙂

Lindyw

4:05 pm
2 Mar 14
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I feel it was a rant because she wants someone to blame and didn’t know where to turn.
I do hope she replies but ………

Angie090465

4:34 pm
2 Mar 14
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🙂 lets wait and see….

sylvestra

5:14 pm
2 Mar 14
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I agree with Lindy and Angie….. there is plenty of evidence on these forums that this way of eating works for most people. And, from my own experience, the health benefits show it is anything but a ‘fad diet’

It’s a shame you feel so negative about it since you felt it was working till you reached a plateau. Unfortunately reaching a plateau is something many of us do on our weight loss journey but perseverance wins the day in the end.

You say you have gained 26 lbs since you stopped 5:2. That’s hardly the fault of the 5:2 way of eating. Any weight loss eating plan ceases to ‘work’ when you stop doing it.

xx

simcoeluv

5:58 pm
2 Mar 14
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“so a total of six months into the diet, I gave up . . . . I returned to my usual diet . . . . I’ve put on all the weight I lost, plus an extra eight pounds.”

Heard that one a thousand times.

If it was not so sad, it would be funny.

Good Luck!

symba7

6:04 pm
2 Mar 14
Permalink

I agree with you all,

It sounds to me her body is in starvation mode, and that is why she’s gained weight. Even on the 5.2 you have to eat enough on the non fast days to stop this.

Too many people on this forum……have lost loads of weight and their health benefits have been improved.

She just wants to blame something…instead of herself!

hermajtomomi

8:07 pm
2 Mar 14
Permalink

Hi TTDW

Sorry to hear you have had such a negative experience with 5:2. I think I know where you are coming from. Plateaux? Tell me about it! Rapid weight loss? My record is 14 lbs in 4 days! This happened in August in Portugal when I was still in my 20s. Of my three travelling companions, two lost weight, one stayed the same. I inflated like a balloon! Probably fluid retention, but who cares. I just got FAT!

I’ve now been doing 5:2 for 13 months yesterday. My weight loss has been very, very slow. It took me a year to lose 6 kilos – 13.3lbs. That including being stuck at the same weight between September 2013 and two weeks ago. To my amazement, I have lost an additional kilo, 2.2lbs, in the past 2 weeks, which still makes the total only 15.5 lbs.

Like you, I’ve been tempted to give up. BUT despite such a disappointing weight loss with 20+ lbs still to go there have been some very rewarding side effects. Clothes that were once too tight now sit beautifully while others were fit only for the charity shop. Blood pressure is now on the low side of normal, cholesterol is down to a healthy level (until the quacks move the goalposts AGAIN) and there’s not a sign of raised glucose levels despite two obese, diabetic parents.

This isn’t so much a diet as a way of eating. And if it works for an awkward born-to-be-fat wee bugger like me, it should work for anybody. Why not give it another go? It just might be worth it.

ghostgirl

6:26 am
3 Mar 14
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I feel like the OP may not have been following the diet correctly.

Their statement

“Before the diet, I was already consuming fewer calories than some experts recommend for my size, and this diet was lower still, but I kept to it.”

and

” I gave up, as I was just too hungry to carry on. I returned to my usual diet (which for over 20 years has been broadly Mediterranean, lots of F&V) but now with much less sugar. But despite still eating too little, I’ve put on all the weight I lost, plus an extra eight pounds. ”

sounds to me like they were not eating up to their TDEE on the non fasting days. No matter how hungry you may get on the fast days – there is no reason to be feeling hungry on the other five days of the week.

There really isn’t enough information in the post to be fully informed as to what happened with the OP but those two statements are red flags to me that something was wrong with their approach. It is a pity that they did not come here to discuss things before becoming completely disillusioned.

ThisDietDoesntWork

8:24 am
3 Mar 14
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Yes my post was a rant – and my intention in posting it here was to accuse Mr Mosley’s diet of being just like all other diets. Let’s not be mistaken here – it may well be a lifestyle, but because it is a manufactured regime of calorific intake, it is inescapably a Diet, as the book admits in its own title.

Thanks for all your input and kindness. You show, as has come to be my concern, that this diet is but a leaf of procedure floating in a whole river of context. We must not take the diet in isolation of that context. But then for completeness, the diet should not profess itself without covering that context. That context includes things like state of mind, Base Metabolic Rate, stress levels, typical exercise levels, insulin resistance, water retention, overall health and much, much more.

Part of the ‘much more’ now includes neurology, which since publication of this diet has come to explain why people can lose 15lbs, but why your brain will then try, for the next seven years or more, to make you regain it. Sarah Aamodt (http://www.ted.com/talks/sandra_aamodt_why_dieting_doesn_t_usually_work.html) demonstrates quite clearly that dieting to lose weight is an illusion. She also explains why this diet is indeed a lifestyle – because once the weight is gone, you are then doomed to keep eating that little for the rest of your life, just to maintain it, because of the negative effect the diet will have had on your metabolism.

Aamodt also points out how exasperatingly little conventional medical science knows about weight and diets. My doctor can no longer tell me that being overweight or obese leads to diabetes and cardiovascular problems, because it’s not as simple as that, and probably not true.

Aamodt is not alone in challenging medical convention in this area. Peter Attia also now wonders whether we have cause and effect wrong as regards weight gain. http://new.ted.com/talks/peter_attia_what_if_we_re_wrong_about_diabetes

And as for exercise – it turns out that ten minutes of laughter uses three times the calories of ten minutes on a bicycle. And I’ve spent more calories just thinking about this post than I would have spent running on the spot for the same period. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/thinking-hard-calories/

The point is that Mr Mosley’s diet is just another fad diet, professing itself without context. It seems the posters here are either fortunate to have the right personal context by coincidence, or they are just adjusting within Aamodt’s described ‘range’.

The topic is way bigger than this one diet. And dieting doesn’t work.

Good luck to you all. I’ve dieted twice in my life, but now I know the damage it does, I never will again. PS – just for completeness, I’m a bloke, by the way.

audrich

9:25 am
3 Mar 14
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Hi thisdietdoesntwork,

I absolutely feel for you. My hubby had virtually the same experience. After 3 weeks on 5:2 and gaining, he stopped and suddenly gained over 8lbs, so I can imagine, if he’d continued as long as you had, it would have resulted in the same soul-destroying outcome as you experienced. He’s now on a general calorie restriction diet combined with daily exercise and is doing a bit better. It’s a diet, he knows it’s ‘bad’ for him, but he’s desperate, being in the obese weight range 🙁

Thank you for the links, I think there is much in what they say that our bodies try to regain lost weight whenever they can. I observe that folk who have never been overweight don’t have the same trouble keeping their weight down or off as those who have dieted in the past – I am in the latter category for sure and find it very hard indeed to even lose a 1lb over a month. (Female, 48)

I do feel that this diet, way of eating, lifestyle, whatever folk call it is right for me, the weight loss is very slow but at least I’m no longer obese and I feel hopeful I can lose more, which is something I’ve never said about the very many other diets I’ve been on and off again for over 30 YEARS. I have *wrecked* my metabolism and I am doomed, as you say, to eat less and less. But maybe I ate too much anyway, despite eating much less than ‘normal’, whatever that is?

I am starting to come round to the fact that weight is very much linked to genes and fat cells laid down as a youngster (I was *huge* baby and a fat toddler). All of us on here seem to be battling through and I’m absolutely certain that one size does NOT fit all, so I can understand that this didn’t work for you, I’m sorry about your weight gain, how ghastly when you had worked that hard.

I wish all the best on your non-diet journey (I recall an actress who turned her back on dieting and embraced exercise instead – not only did she eat three square meals a day, she lost weight and looked great so there is hope for us all). I also hope that one day, some clever bod will crack the fat code and that we will all be able to manage our weight within healthy limits.

All the best,
Aud x

mumoftheanimals

10:07 am
3 Mar 14
Permalink

Whether the Fast Diet works for you or not, is one thing, everyone is different. But you don”to seem to have understood Mosley’s argument. Much of your counter evidence supports his findings, eg Your link is just saying that obesity may be the result of insulin problems rather than vice versa (the gi diet also suggests this). The Fast Diet improves insulin levels. This is a new area and Mosley is the first to say so. It is quite easy to check and I. am going to have my insulin level checked soon to see if the diet has improved it.

Lindyw

12:20 pm
3 Mar 14
Permalink

Thank you for responding to my post TDDW tbh I would have taken money you wouldn’t!
Again I am sorry for your experience, most of us have tried various diets which are boring and not easy to fit into our lives, stopped them – gained weight so tried another – and so on yoyoing our way to what we consider unacceptable sizes.
The majority of us on this forum have found 5:2 sustainable.
I started it because I don’t want to wander off into old age suffering from Type 2 diabetes, at risk of stroke and heart problems not to mention dementia. I have also lost over 2 stone since last May. My husband was pre-diabetic according to the raised blood glucose in a routine blood sample he had to give, by sticking to 6:1 that has now fallen to well within the normal range.
So our experience is so much more positive than yours, everyone is different as has been said above.
But
that said we still haven’t got to the root of your problem.
Why have you put on so much weight in such a short time?
I felt your frustration in your post.
I don’t entirely believe in ‘starvation mode’ as much as I believe the body takes time to adjust to the amount of fuel its getting, and using it in the most effective way – plateauing.
You are right in thinking this is a much bigger topic – and by the way the CEO of Weight Watchers admitted on a TV programme called the Men Who Made Us Fat (I think), that WW and dieting doesn’t work else they wouldn’t have a business. I am sure scientists in the future will discover an easy way to switch off whatever it is that causes obesity. Just maybe not in my time 🙂
I have checked your links out and Sandra Aamodt says

For her own part, Aamodt solved the conundrum by becoming an intuitive eater, shifting her attitude towards food. “My solution, in a word, is mindfulness,” she says. Not as in yoga or meditation, but giving yourself permission to eat whatever you want, slowly, and without distractions, paying attention to how your body feels when hungry or satisfied, and letting hunger determine when you’re done.’

I think you will find Dr Mosley says the same thing in different ways – eg on non fast days eat what you want but only in reasonable portions.
I also think the majority of those of us who consider this an easy option to continue throughout our lives, will tell you that is exactly how we have reacted to IF.

Anyway thanks for reading this ‘diatribe’ – I always go on for too long (and still could).

Thank you also for letting us in on your gender as I almost put as option 4 on my original post – Could you be pregnant?
😀

issu

1:39 pm
3 Mar 14
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Hello Thisdietdoesntwork!

just a short note from me…

your words : ‘Part of the ‘much more’ now includes neurology, which since publication of this diet has come to explain why people can lose 15lbs, but why your brain will then try, for the next seven years or more, to make you regain it. Sarah Aamodt (http://www.ted.com/talks/sandra_aamodt_why_dieting_doesn_t_usually_work.html) demonstrates quite clearly that dieting to lose weight is an illusion. She also explains why this diet is indeed a lifestyle – because once the weight is gone, you are then doomed to keep eating that little for the rest of your life, just to maintain it, because of the negative effect the diet will have had on your metabolism.’ got my attention …

every diet is a life style if you want to keep desired weight for life. And yes you are doomed to keep eating little for the rest of your life. If you are like me 5’2 with THEE 1500kcal (now when i hit my desired weight it will go down to 1350) it feels like a punishment as everywhere you look it says ‘average woman should eat 2000kcal) well i’m not average, not many people are ( what is average anyway?) and i always ate above so, i kept putting weight on, and on and on. with food available easily and snack being calorie dense, and me just driving to the shop to get it (didn’t use much of energy to get it) I’m not surprised.

and if we are going to blame neurology for maths then we will just grow bigger and bigger.

there are always 3 ways to go

1. be disciplined and focus on healthy, accept the fact you will always have to watch what is going into your body, and have ‘treats’ occasionally not every day or every meal time.

2. accept yourself and decide your THEE is ‘not enough for you’. And accept you will grow in size and be happy with it. I had take away curry on sat which itself with poppadoms and all lovely add-ons was probably 1000kcal plus 600 kcal bottle of wine (the way i felt on sun i can say i had more then that :)) plus cheese we ate after, and nuts we had before, and lunch i had WOW i hated maths that day 😀 if you do it everyday you will have to run marathon everyday too or you put the weight back on.

3. jojo back and forwards. As if you only on diet to loose weight and then go back to ‘normal eating’ you going go back ‘to normal weight’ too 🙂

i know is hard. i’m finding hard to accept i will have to always only eat only 1250 kcal a day. but i’m not prepared to blame my brain, or hormones or full moon. is decision we all have to make. you eat as nature intended or indulge on man made treats and enjoy your life the way you are.

being slim doesn’t bring happiness just like winning lottery doesn’t make you a happy person.

good luck xxx

loosing weight is easy – keeping it is a hard bit.

issu

1:56 pm
3 Mar 14
Permalink

It proven that if you want healthy teeth you need to brush them twice a day, floss them go for check ups etc, and yes some of us are born with stronger teeth then others but we all follow dentists advise.

your doctor will tell you if you want healthy weight you need to do lots of maintenance work too. but that is much harder. they didn’t invent solution for being greedy yet (is just human nature to always want more) you can use twice a day and forget about it the rest of the time. I wish there would be a slim pill or slim paste 😉

Redswallow

2:04 pm
3 Mar 14
Permalink

Ok I’m new to this but so far good results, What I don’t understand is the hunger part, yes on a fast day it is more difficult but on a non fast day I’m always full, I don’t miss out on anything or feel deprived, yes it’s a lifestyle choice but my sister had a stroke at the age of 50 due high cholesterol and being well over weight. I don’t intend the same to happen to me, and when I get to target my stomach will have shrunk and I wouldn’t be able to eat as much as I used to anyway, sounds to me like excuses or real health isuue which needs addressing.

hermajtomomi

3:01 pm
3 Mar 14
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There seems to be a subtext to TDDW’s condemnation of 5:2. It is that the many who have decided to attempt this diet/way of eating/lifestyle are gullible idiots who are starving themselves in the belief that this is the answer to all their weight problems and related health issues. It also suggests, subtextually, that we are all riding for a fall as the pounds will inevitably pile back on again and we’ll be even bigger lumps of blubber than we were when we first started.

Idiots we are not. Many of us are highly educated and have, or have had, jobs that demand more than a little intellectual accuity. Nor are we gullible. We have all read the Fast Diet book and most have watched the Horizon series in which Michael test-drove different possible solutions to problems of excess weight. In no way have we been sold a pup!

Nor do I understand about 5:2 being a waste of money. The Fast Diet book and cookbook together come to less than £10 on Amazon. I seem to recall they were at a similar price this time last year when we started. With two of us following 5:2 there has been little difference in expenditure on food, possibly because we were already eating healthily and the Fast Diet merely required us to eat less than previously.

As regards hunger, as Redswallow says, while this can be an issue on fast days, the rest of the week we can eat what we like, within reason. One of the spin-offs of 5:2 is that on non-fast days you simply can’t eat as much as previously. Overdoing it makes you feel sick and bloated.

Having skimmed through the links provided, I couldn’t help feeling that Sarah Aamodt inadvertently demonstrated why people feel under pressure to lose weight, quite apart from the way doctors waste precious consultation time ranting at patients for supposedly eating fatty, sugary stuff that they haven’t touched in years – I’m speaking from personal experience here. Clearly, she was dealing with the odd ten pounds she felt she needed to lose. Ten measly pounds! I should be so lucky! Anyway, after a certain age, the point at which the bones may start to become brittle, I understand it is even desirable to be up to ten pounds overweight as possible protection against osteoporosis.

And of course, 5:2 isn’t just about weight loss. As is clear from so many posts on the forum, following this regime has meant tangible, observable health benefits for countless men and women, myself and my husband included.

I’m very sorry 5:2 hasn’t worked for you, TDDW. You must be mightily pissed off! Justifyably so. But please, don’t try to drag the rest of us down with you.

audrich

3:27 pm
3 Mar 14
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Issu, great reply to TDDW’s comment, much better than my rambling one x

Lindyw, did LOL at ‘could you be pregnant’? 🙂

Redswallow, sorry to hear about your sis – hope she’s doing better now? And all the best with your progress x

Hermaj, I’m totally with you on the money – a fad diet to me is ‘eat this strange tasting, expensive food substitute’, ‘eat only Oxo and oranges’ (my mother in law was given that one by her doctor!), ‘religiously attend meetings and buy our exclusive products for YEARS’ that kind of thing. Now for about the price of one of those meetings I have a book (which I could have got from the library if I wasn’t so keen to get started) plus a friendly and helpful forum which is FREE, I feel I have everything I need to make do for the rest of my life. Time used? Not much, in fact, I’ve gained by not preparing (or panicking) about food, for me at least, Effort? Not much, although I’m now inspired to cook more from scratch and actually exercise, which I haven’t ever done. Money? I’ve saved as I’m buying less, lol.

TDDW? I guess, as Dr Mosley himself says, we’ll all know in about 5 years time.
I intend to be a lot slimmer by then. Good luck!

ThisDietDoesntWork

3:39 pm
3 Mar 14
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“don’t try to drag the rest of us down with you”

Consider this as the messenger surprised that he is being shot at, in what to now has been nothing but kindness and understanding from other commenters.

When I posted, I didn’t even know you existed. Unlikely then, that I could have done so with the intention of dragging down people of whose existence, let alone level of education, I was unaware.

My subtext is simply, as I said, that I want to lay at Dr Mosley’s doorstep the paradoxes of diet-science as I have researched them, and their effect on my experience with his diet. Any other subtext you believe you may have perceived, and thus any conclusion you may have drawn therefrom, is imagined.

kilda

3:59 pm
3 Mar 14
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5:2 hasn’t cost me a thing. I heard about it when Michael was interviewed on national public radio, looked at this website and that’s it. Haven’t read the book – my mom got it out of the library and told me it didn’t contain any info I hadn’t already told her aboout 5:2. So for me this lifestyle change has been free. Well, I am going to have to spring for new clothes soon, at the rate I’m going. That could be expensive, I guess.

In my mind the hallmarks of a fad diet are:
-major restrictions on the types or combinations of food you can eat. IF does not have that. I can eat anything I want. No foods are off limits. It’s encouraged to choose healthy, filling foods for fast days, but if I want to spend all my fast day calories on cake, I can.
-wildly unrealistic expectations. Eat bacon all day and lose weight! Never feel hungry, and look great in a bikini! I don’t see any of this attitude around here. People always emphasize that it’s about health as much as weight loss, and that weight loss is likely to be slow.
-a rigid set of rules – do it exactly my way or you’re Doing it Wrong. I definitely do not see this attitude on these forums. Want to try 4:3? 6:1? 16:8? Eat a few more than 500 cal on your fast days, as long as it works for you? take in no calories at all on a fast day? Exercise, or don’t exercise. Take a break from the diet for a week or so over Christmas? Posters on these forums will say “why not, let us know how it works out for you.”

I think the Fast Diet is unique because it is uniquely sustainable for the long term. I hope that when I get to my goal weight I can go to 6:1 and still maintain. But if I have to do 5:2 forever to maintain, I would have no problem.

Now, all that being said, I do think there are some people it just doesn’t work for. I’ve seen enough posts by people who were enthusiastic about the diet, sincerely tried, and did not lose weight or inches. The human body is not one size fits all, and for some people a different approach may be needed. I think that this diet works very well for the great majority of people who try it.

hermajtomomi

4:03 pm
3 Mar 14
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I had no intention of shooting the messenger and apologise if it seemed that I was.

However, as other posters have noted, it did seem as though you had some personal axe to grind, as well as sticking two fingers up at the whole concept of adjusting eating behaviour to achieve a healthy weight.

I would heartily agree with any criticism or rude gestures you might level against Weight Watchers and the like, a bunch of con artists whose methods are based on persuading punters to shell out large sums of money for their products and the ritual public humiliation of any who don’t make the cut, i.e. have not lost any weight, at any given meeting. No doubt I’ve now offended the WW lobby. So be it.

All I would say is that the Fast Diet and its underlying philosophy make sense to me and it would seem to hundreds of thousands – maybe even millions – worldwide.

hermajtomomi

4:26 pm
3 Mar 14
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Excellent posts, aud & kilda,

I’m one of those for whom 5:2 hasn’t worked as quickly as I would like, probably because I was already eating healthily so the effect has not been as dramatic as it might on someone whose previous eating habits have been distinctly unhealthy. But at least it IS working better than any other weight loss regime I’ve ever tried and the health spin-offs have been pretty spectacular. I loved the idea of Oxo and oranges, aud. The doc was having a laugh, wasn’t he? Or maybe not.

Amy C.

4:40 pm
3 Mar 14
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Redswallow — I too do not understand the hunger on days where I have enough food. This fact derails my eating more than anything. It is only in the evening, about an hour after dinner until I succumb to the emotion that I am going to perish unless I eat. It is absolutely infantile and frustrating beyond the pale to me.

Sometimes, I can wait it out and obviously have not perished.

TracyJ

4:56 pm
3 Mar 14
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Hmmm – I must say I am surprised to read that this diet doesn’t work. I’d better go and give up then.

Such a shame after 18 months of investment. At least, unlike the OP apparently, I haven’t spent a single penny on any diet paraphenalia and have just stuck to the rules. So at least it hasn’t made me poor.

I am frightened though, if I put all the weight I’ve lost back on in 4 months (plus 8 lb) then I’ll balloon up 60lb!!!! What if I explode?

Also, I’m quite liking the health benefits (the reason I started in the first place). I’d hate to be all spotty & hormonal & have eczema and high blood pressure again.

Humph!

On balance, I think maybe I’d better totally ignore this post and keep doing what I’m doing. If the OP would like to stop starving themselves on “fewer calories than some experts recommend for my size” allow their body to recover from its abuse and start the 5:2 again properly by following the actual recommendations then I might consider their opinion worth listening to when they come across a genuine problem with the lifestyle (which is a ‘diet’ of course but is the TRUE meaning of a diet and not something you do for a couple of months and then ‘come off’).

Happy fastday everyone.

Redswallow

6:50 pm
3 Mar 14
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Hi Amy C,

Evenings used to be my worst time as I would sit and stuff my face with junk, I’ve realised it was just comfort eating, now I always save enough calories to have a pack of crisps and a cereal bar or something, on fast days sometimes I just go to bed early and watch telly if I can’t stop thinking about food, but to be honest that’s getting less and less as the weeks go by.

hermajtomomi

8:01 pm
3 Mar 14
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Amy & Redswallow,

Yes, evenings are the killer. Especially when you are just starting out. I used to lie awake just craving something to eat, and at the beginning I confess I would get up in the small hours and raid the fridge, usually grabbing something carb heavy, kidding myself that as it was after midnight, I HAD completed the fast day without exceeding 500 cals. I’m pleased to say I have long since grown out of it but continue to sympathise with anyone still finding it tough.

I think it’s a wise decision to save a few calories for crisps etc. especially if it enables you to stick more or less to your 500 cals. It’s one of many strategies you can use to get through a fast day and it’s far better to legitimately include something a wee bit naughty in your calorie count than completely blow it. Having said that, if you do fall off the wagon don’t beat yourself up. There’s always tomorrow, or the next day.

issu

8:26 pm
3 Mar 14
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Totally agree with hermaj! If you feel hungry you gonna eat. Save some kcal or all of them? Have a good meal in the evening if that is when you craving food. New habit Quickly sets in. I use to have wine and nuts, crackers or crisps at night. Now herbal tea is what my body is use to 🙂 even on my normal days 🙂 doing ADF 6 weeks now.

Redswallow

8:35 pm
3 Mar 14
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Hi hermajtomomi,

This diet has made me realise I did just eat because I was bored or fed up. Five weeks in and non fast day today, had banana for breakfast because I was going straight to the gym, pasty for lunch and full English for tea, can’t resist something sweet after meals, so cadburys choc orange mousse went down nicely, all this was only 1350cals, but just can’t eat any more tonite, maybe not the healthiest choices (as fruit and veg was minimal) but hey a little of what u fancy does u good. Wish I had found this diet years ago, would have saved me a lot of money over the years. 🙂

sylvestra

9:20 pm
3 Mar 14
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Just one question TDDW – if this way of eating is a ‘fad’; if it ‘doesn’t work’; if it is ‘a waste of time, money, effort (although I don’t get the waste of money part); if ‘this diet is just like all the others’ – why are you still posting on a forum that is specifically for people who are following, and in the main are quite happy with, this way of eating?

Your post is almost identical to one posted on another forum under a different name but quoting exactly the same links. Is it your practice just to post on forums criticising and rubbishing whatever way of eating is being discussed in the hope of causing arguments?

If that is your plan then you are in the wrong place.

You are not happy with this way of eating? You say it doesn’t work? I suggest you stop posting here and find a ‘diet’ which you are happy with. I’m sure we, and Michael Mosley, will be more than pleased if you find something which suits you.

Couscous

7:29 am
4 Mar 14
Permalink

Hi to all posters. What a good response by all to TWWD and the comments that 5:2 does not work. I am not going to critise any one who has had negative results over 5:2. I have been “negative” about it from time to time and have put on some weight but have still maintained a significant weight loss of around 14 lb over the past 16 months. The rather big “Elephant in the cupboard” here for all of us, both those who have positive and negative results is a psychological one. The mantra “We are all different” holds true both physically and mentally in our approach to all we do in our lives. The way we think about our individual approach to any diet is the cornerstone of how successful we will be. With the 5:2 we also have this superb site with posters around the world supporting each other with our trials and tribulations. TDDW, thank you for your comments and research. I have started to research some of your links. I know we all recognise that it is healthy to have doubts about any type of diet and the results will vary for many. My thoughts about some of your comments are that you may have some psychological issues about this approach along with the physical. I do not mean this in a detrimental way, I have some psycological issues myself. I wish you well with your health.
Good luck to you all out there.

hermajtomomi

8:00 pm
4 Mar 14
Permalink

TDDW

You might care to read the first post on the Amazing Weight Loss thread started today. The poster is a successful male follower of 5:2. As someone involved in the world of medicine, he seems to know what he is talking about. And his story is pretty impressive.

arla

12:06 am
5 Mar 14
Permalink

@thisdietdoesntwork This is my experience – which may have striking similarities to yours. I’ve done 5:2 since 28th December and I’m now 2kg heavier than when I started. I’ve neither overeaten nor undereaten on the non-fast days (ie balance to make this a sustainable change).

Going in this was an experiment for me as I have a genetic endocrine disorder and PCOS, both of which have been responsible for my current high weight; and an inflammatory disorder. Once I started on medication to treat the endocrine+PCOS I lost 15 kg in 8 months without even trying (and then more slowly lost another 5kg). Literally took 2 different medications and continued to eat what I normally had. Which totally shows that it’s not an absolute that calories in vs calories out = weight gain or lost. (for starters I shouldn’t have weighed what I did given my healthy balanced diet and walking 50km or 30 miles per week).

I also knew that I didn’t have to re-educate my tastes as I rarely have soft drinks, or sugar or high fat things like chips. I’m allergic or intolerant to gluten/dairy/soy/potato/tomato/red meat so I pretty much can’t have takeaways or pizza/pies or chips or bread. I can carry a dairy/soy free chocolate bar in my handbag for a month or more.

Yes there’s research that those who lose weight on VLCD have bodies that continue to react like someone who is currently starving, but I’m not sure that the same tests have been done on people who have lost weight through non-VLCD diets (and 5:2 isn’t a VLCD).

Can I suggest that you see your doctor and have thyroid and androgen tests done (they most commonly cause weight problems) and if they are in the normal range ask for a referral to an endocrinologist who can check for other things.

I started gaining weight after my gallbladder was removed in April last year, after 5 months of not being able to eat much (and only losing 3kg in 5 months!).

Personally I think it’s inevitable that for all those at one end of the bell curve of normal who lose weight rapidly doing 5:2 (faster than those in the middle) there is going to be those at the other bellcurve who don’t lose weight or lose it very slowly.

I think it’s hard for those who have lost weight to comprehend that someone else has “done it right” and not lost. So there will be some who assume you’re kidding yourself about what you’ve eaten or not eaten. When there’s every chance that someone with atypical body chemistry will try this way of life and have an atypical result. Instead of ranting against a non-fad way of eating that the majority of people have been successful with, I’d suggest getting some specialist medical help. At least I knew doing this that I was starting with the deck stacked against me, and I think that not everyone with health issues does. It’s a pretty upsetting way to find out.

I’ve just had blood tests done today for yet another specialist appt next week. I’m hoping for good results but who knows.

For the other posters who have had good results, please expect that people who has done 5:2 and not had good results will come to this forum to express their disappointment (perhaps not in a way you like) or to find understanding. It can be confusing and upsetting when other people have success and you don’t – doing exactly the same thing.

hermajtomomi

10:25 am
5 Mar 14
Permalink

Well said, arla. You manage to be sympathetic but firm towards both those who slag off 5:2 and those who get all self-righteous and judgemental, arguing that because they have succeeded those who haven’t must be doing something wrong, or worse, are just kidding themselves about what they eat. Fortunately these holier-than-thou types are very thin on the ground on the Fast Diet forum – sorry about the terrible unintended pun!.

I so admire the way you continue to experiment with 5:2 with the odds so stacked against you, while also taking time to help and encourage others. As one of those who do all the right things with limited success – an extra kilo has disappeared in the last couple of weeks after a 5-month wait and I’m hoping it will stay off. My problems are down to a minor design fault, so I feel quite ashamed at being such a moaning minny when confronted with your very positive and courageous attitude.

arla

11:13 am
5 Mar 14
Permalink

I find it baffling that people take it so personally when it hasn’t worked for someone else. For most of those it hasn’t worked are baffled, confused and possibly feel cheated and maybe get angry. And cos they are in such a minority they don’t get taken seriously. So next have to deal with feelings of being dismissed or disbelieved or not seen as real as well.

I’m genuinely happy for everyone who’s been successful, even if it’s slow. Deep down I was hopeful for my 3 month experiment, but I can’t blame 5:2 for my whacked out genetics. At least I’m not dead 😉 and that gallbladder did try to kill me off over 18 months!

hermajtomomi

12:01 pm
5 Mar 14
Permalink

Hi arla,

One of perks of posting to the forum is that time after time you find, whatever your problem, it’s not just you!

Please may I borrow, for future use, your lovely phrase “whacked out genetics”?

Lindyw

12:15 pm
5 Mar 14
Permalink

Hi Arla,
I did suggest in my initial reply that a visit to a doctor may be necessary as apart from a substantial weight gain no information was given about the poster. I didn’t mention anything specific as a lot of conditions can cause this.
I did ‘feel’ or read into the post TDDW’s frustration and anger and could sympathise with that.
I do hope he can sort something out either with his GP or by trying IF again and sticking with it with sensible calorie and portion control.

kilda

3:59 pm
5 Mar 14
Permalink

well said Arla – I think your statement about the bell curve is spot on. Most people lose weight on 5:2, fairly slowly. A few lucky people lose it quickly and dramatically. and a few unlucky people on the other end of the bell curve lose it slowly or not at all. Not all bodies are the same and not everyone reacts the same to any diet. I know there are people who do it “right” and still don’t lose or barely lose, and I sympathize with them because that has to be so frustrating.

hermajtomomi

4:58 pm
5 Mar 14
Permalink

It IS frustrating, kilda, but it helps a hell of a lot to be able to sound off to all the sympathetic cyber-buddies on the forum.

Apart from disappointing weight-loss, a lot of very good stuff has happened to me over the 13 months since I signed up for 5:2, e.g. inches lost in places you can’t normally measure (I now have very nice shoulders!), lots of previously too tight clothes now looking great or consigned to the charity shop, big reductions in BP and cholesterol and overall considerably more energy, for work, study and pleasure.

Maybe one way of looking at it is to regard weight loss as a SIDE EFFECT of a regime designed to improve general health, reduce the incidence of diabetes, promote longevity, etc, etc., rather than as the primary goal.

arla

10:28 pm
5 Mar 14
Permalink

@hermajtomomi feel free to adopt the phrase!

There’s a huge bellcurve of body reactions to IF – there are people eating badly (their own words) on the 5 days and dropping weight quickly, most people lose a steady amount with plateaus now & then, and then there’s the incredibly slow losers, and the rarer-but-there gainers.

I’m doing it to improve my cholesterol levels which were always magnificent up til my gallbladder was gone, and are starting to creep up to the top end of normal. Plus I have an inflammatory disorder (atopy) which I’d love to improve. So I’m going to keep going – I had the ‘miracle’ of the scales dropping today to 0.6kg above my starting point. I’m away over the weekend so can’t weigh myself on Saturday. Maybe the 4:3 / ADF mix is helping? Maybe, LOL.

ghostgirl

1:06 am
6 Mar 14
Permalink

The OP does not have a problem with 5:2 only but with all weight loss diets and I have to agree that he does have some valid points. It has been shown time and time again that severely restricting calorie intake does not lead to long term weight loss and causes rebound weight gain as soon as someone departs from following the strict calorie reduction.

The OP is talking about the same thing that my sister is saying at the moment. The OPs second post was a lot more informative than his first. My sister has tried every diet under the sun and has reached diet fatigue. She is now attempting to follow a more thoughtful way of eating, not blacklisting any foods and is questioning her true feelings of hunger and does she really want to eat whatever it is she is thinking of eating. Her first new weight loss bible is “If Not Dieting Then What” an interesting read – I could see how a lot of it would resonate with my sister although I didn’t always agree with everything they were talking about but my relationship with food has been different to hers – I’ve only ever followed two diets that worked on continuous caloric restriction. She is currently reading another book along similar lines but I can’t remember it’s title at the moment.

I’m not sure how well it is working for her as she is in Sydney and I’m in Melbourne but I think she has been having some success. Which is logical as she isn’t eating as much as she was before. I think she has lost weight – she told me she gave in and jumped on the scale and the number had gone down but wouldn’t tell me as “the number isn’t important” 🙂

I think it is a shame that she cannot even bring herself to considering doing the 5:2 to help reduce her weight as I think that it would help.

5:2 reflects a lot of what she is talking about. On our eating days we can eat what we like – there are no blacklisted foods, we do not restrict our calories that much – some people do count calories to make sure that they stay within their TDEE but learning the hunger signals seems to have brought many of us to a point where we are eating a lot less on our normal days than we would have before commencing this WOE and eating without stressing about food.

The two fasting days are helping us to reset our insulin sensitivity which is so important for us – the Jason Fung you tube lectures on obesity are well worth taking the time to watch his explanations for this are highly informative. They also challenge a lot of the healthy diet “law” that I have adhered to over the decades.

I think that anyone who takes the time to actually look closely at intermittent fasting will see that it is not just another diet and actually works at improving the body’s natural responses to food and does not work against long term weight management. Which is the problem with so many of the diets out there – which is what has gotten up the OP’s nose.

So for me I am just going to keep on with what is working so well for me. Fasting two days a week, building strength and cardio fitness, and eating very normally on the other 5 days of the week.

arla

2:54 am
6 Mar 14
Permalink

I understand what you’re saying about diet fatigue @ghostgirl and it could well be TDWW’s issue. But this isn’t the case with everyone who’s done weeks on 5:2 and not lost weight. It certainly doesn’t apply to me.

Some find it’s the first indication they need to get a medical check for thyroid or other issues.

she_said

2:08 pm
8 Mar 14
Permalink

Hey Thisdietdoesntwork,

I am not really usually posting at Forums, because you know…not really bothered enough to engage…but your post touched me in a certain way and I felt like I wanted to help if possible.

Now, I don’t (yet) know to much about dieting or even about the fast diet (I admit I did not even buy the book, but don’t tell anybody ;-)), but I did read quite a bit in the internet about diet science on the internet and I thought maybe (just maybe…) it might help you. Now, from what I understood from your original post you were eating already lower “than some experts might recommend” and I do have the feeling that this is were your troubles might come from….

Now I read a fair bit recently online about the whole concept of “reverse dieting”, which essentially means that after eating a low-calorie diet for a long time, you metabolism will be well f**** and you have to restore it first before doing anything else. Essentially the argument behind it is that after eating on a low-calorie level for a long time, your body thinks ‘this is normal now’ and as soon as you eat ‘normal’ then, your body thinks ‘hey great, I have more calories now that I need (because I already adjusted to that lower level), so I might as well store this food as fat for bad times. So for example, my TDEE might be 1800 for my given weight/height/gender/activity , but I ate at 1300 for a couple of month to loose weight so my metabolism things now 1300 is ‘normal’, so as soon as i eat my ‘normal’ 1800 again my body actually thinks it has 500 calories ‘extra’ now and stores it as fat. So, according to this theory to restore your metabolism you have to very slowly up your calorie (and macro-nutrients) level every week to ‘restore’ your metabolism to ‘normal’. Now I must admit I have not actually tried this yet, but I did find that the theoretical concept behind it made a lot of sense and it might be what happened with you (apart from doing the 5:2 diet, it would have happened before that…). I found it fascinating reading about the whole ‘reverse dieting’ concept as I never come across it before and I hope so will you (I did not post a link as I am sure a Google search will do the trick..).

I hope it will help :-).

And never forget, we are all trying here do be the best person we possible can be….and even if it does not work…its better to at least have given our very best and failed than to never have tried at all…

I wish you all the best!