hello-
I am doing 5:2 and 16/8. I just finished 16 hours of fasting and had my 500 cal meal for my fast day. The question is, do I start my 16 hours of fasting again? Or, do I wait until my “normal” fasting start time (1800) ?
This topic contains 22 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Merryme 8 years, 2 months ago.
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Hi Feline,
5:2 and 16:8 are 2 different things, so you need to think about and understand them separately before you decide to combine them. 16:8 isn’t part of 5:2 but some people choose to combine them. I’m 1 of those, but I use 16:8 on my 5 nonFDs (nonFast Days) not on my 2 FDs (Fast Days).
Looking at 5:2 first people do various things on their 2 FDs:
1. some eat 3 times during the day,
2. Some eat 2 a day, either breakfast and dinner, or lunch and dinner
3. Some people eat only 1 meal and have all their calories at dinner (most peopke who do this) or lunch, or breakfast. I eat all my FD calories at one meal in the evening
16:8 – eating in an 8hr window out of 24hrs. For me, whenever I start eating in an 8 hr window either :
12 noon till 8pm
or
1pm till 9pm
or
2pm till 10pm,
depending on what is happening that day. For example, on my usual nonFDs I usually eat between 1pm and 9pm, so my next non-food, (fasting) period starts after 9pm. Sometimes it’s 12noon – 8 pm so my non-food period starts at8pm. If it’s a special dinner out or evening ng family celebration I’ll make it 2pm -10pm and my daily news non- food time starts at 10pm.
Generally when talking about 16:8 people use the terms ‘eating in an 8hr window’ in 24 hrs rather than calling the 16hr non- eating period as a ‘fast’. Other terms that 16hr period get’s called a ‘mini-fast’. So we’re not using the term ‘fast’ because it can be confusing to new people and makes 5:2 harder for them to understand.
Does that answer your questions?
Hi Unknown:
Here is how to do 5:2: https://thefastdiet.co.uk/forums/topic/the-basics-for-newbies-your-questions-answered/. With 5:2, it makes no difference when you eat. As you understand what 16:8 is, but still have a question, maybe someone on a 16:8 site can answer your question. (16:8 is also known as the ‘8 Hour Diet’.)
If you are doing 16:8 every day, including fast days, then on a fast day you just consume quarter TDEE or less in the 8 hour feeding window.
And imo 16:8 isn’t also known as the 8 Hour Diet. I know nothing about the 8 Hour Doet (except that this is what Simco understands 16:8 to be). 16:8 was around long before someone decided to write a diet book and call it The 8 Hour Diet.
Hi Happy:
Actually, 16:8 was ‘invented’ decades ago by a doctor interested in weightlifting and was widely promoted in the weightlifting community for years before the 8 Hour Diet book was written. Some actually feel the book was a ‘rip off’ of the idea.
I didn’t know you learned about it from being a weight lifter!
Keep up the heavy lifting!
Simco,
Surprising as it may be to you, I didn’t ‘learn’ about 16:8 from anyone. Many years ago, because I am not hungry first thing in the morning, I simply stopped eating breakfast and started breaking my (overnight) fast when I was hungry, resulting in a roughly 8 hour eating window each day.
I didn’t know it as 16:8 then. I knew it as the ‘break your fast with a chunky kitkat at 11.30 every dqy (and maintain a healthy weight)’ diet… I did write a book… but couldn’t find a publisher…
So perhaps I invented the concept and your weightlifter stole my idea (and gave it a snappier title) 🙂
Oh, and of course we should all be doing weight-bearing exercise for health, so no real surprise that I would be a weight lifter 🙂
Hi Happy:
I’m glad you invented 16:8. I’m sorry you didn’t publish your book and get rich. I believe in capitalism!!!
But you didn’t. Someone else seems to have beat you to it.
I don’t think the author of the 8 Hour Diet book got rich, either. It is an awful diet. They really claim you can eat as much of anything you want to eat, but in an 8 hour period, and claim you will lose 50 pounds or more? Really? There are no current forums I can find that bother to promote it – they petered out after the introduction of the book (and payments stopped for promoting it on media?). That is why I gave alternatives so Unknown could have a chance of finding more information about 16:8.
The original 16:8 developers (not you) felt it was great for body builders. The concept combined 16 hours of not eating, a high protein diet and lots and lots of weightlifting to build muscle and not increase fat. It was not promoted as a weight loss diet. In fact, weight loss was not even considered.
But I’m sure there are followers world wide that think it is the best thing since white bread to lose weight. But it is a shame it is hard to find forums and followers that are so happy with their weight losses using 16:8 that they maintain forums such as this ‘Fast Diet’ forum to promote the benefits of a 16:8 lifestyle.
However, what ever works for you (but your posts indicate you lost your weight with 5:2, not 16:8)!
I absolutely love looking at the clock to tell me when I can eat!
But not today.
Maybe tomorrow – but I doubt it.
You simply cannot give up, can you?
Quote: “I am doing 5:2 and 16/8. I just finished 16 hours of fasting and had my 500 cal meal for my fast day. The question is, do I start my 16 hours of fasting again? Or, do I wait until my “normal” fasting start time (1800) ?”
Like Merryme said, IF 16/8 is for non-fast-days. For fast days, is more or less IF 23/1. To explain: for fast days, is less important questioning the start / length of fasting-window, compared with previous / next meal (in non-fast-days). What is important is this:
– in NFD, you eat all your food in an 8 hours window (usually the same hours in all NFD, to not stress the body.)
– in FD, you eat your 500 calories in 1 hour window. You choose when this window starts. You can start at 16 hours from your last meal, or you can fast for 23 hours. And after that meal, the next meal will be the next day, in the ALREADY FIXED 8 hours eating window for NFD.
In other words: in your given situation, after your 500 cal meal, you start a 23 hours fast, not 16. Or, like you’ve said, start counting 16 hours from your “normal” fasting start time (18:00).
I’m doing something similar: IF 23/1 (like your FD, but I eat 1.000 calories) combined with IF 20/4 (like your NFD 16/8, but not 5 days / week, much less).
Simco,
If you read my post, you Will have noted I’m sure that I didn’t claim to have lost weight by 16:8, only maintained.
And I don’t clock watch. I break my fast when I’m hungry, and my evening meal usually falls roughly 8 hours later. It’s really very very simple.
And bless you! I didn’t really write a diet book about how to lose weight eating chunky kitkats 🙂
Hi Simcoe and Happy,
My intro to 16:8 had nothing to do with books, weightlifting, especially not weightlifting, low fat, high fat, high carb, low carb, chunky kitkats, non chunky kitkats, or because I’m Australia – TimTams, and I haven’t written a book either.
Mine happened like this:
Starts 5:2, loses weight but isn’t hungry on post FAd nonFD till midday.
Pre 5:2 Never an early breakfast eater for most of my adult life.
Pre 5:2 Believed the you-must-eat-breakfast-mantra so I ate breakfast.
Sometime into 5:2, surfing the net, as you do, came across an article on an overweight American doctor(?) who, for some reason I don’t remember but probably involved mice, decided to eat only in a 5hr window later each afternoon/early evening. Lost all his weight, keeps weight off doing ….drum roll…19:5. That’s where I discovered the concept of an eating window.
I thought about 19:5 because I am forced by a rather nasty health challenge to be sedentary for the rest of my life, so no exercise to use up any calories…my TDEE is only approx 200cals over my BMR.
Decided 19:5 was looking like deprivation rather than sustainable for me but I could easily start with lunch and put in a 16hr mini-fast.
The hunger dragon comes looking for me after the first food passes my lips on any day, so 16:8 helps keep it at bay and stops me from overeating on nonFDs.
No Kitkats have been harmed in my entire 5:2 journey.
I am nearly there, and I am happy, happy, happy to have found something that works for someone who is exercise challenged.
Cheers to all,
Merry
Oh Happy:
I obviously did not read your post. Otherwise I would have responded to it!
I thought you are an eating window expert! Which is the best, most healthy, and will result in the longest life and, most important, result in the greatest weight loss over time – 23:1, 22:2, 21:3, 20:4, 19:5: 18:6, 17:7, 16:8, 15:9, 14:10, 13:11, 12:12, 11:13, 10:14, 9:15:, 8:16, 7:17,6:18, 5:19, 4:20, 3:21, 2:22 or 1:23?
I’m sure the correct answer must be in there somewhere, but I do not pretend to know what the answer is. You, however, being an eating window expert and author, must know! Please, let us all know the correct answer!!!
Quote: “the answer is a matter for each individual”.
I would also like to add that a relative-healthy body adapts. A few years ago I was “addicted” to my 5-6 micro-meals a day, in a 12 hours eating window. And in the present day I am perfectly adapted to IF 23/1 = one meal a day around 1.000 calories (personal record 7 days in a row, as today), with days of IF 20/4 intercalated, to compensate such a big caloric deficit.
And even if in the future I will not be able to remain in this predominantly IF 23/1 pattern, that I simply love, I will always have the-next-best-thing, IF 20/4.
Time-Restricted Eating – a Detailed Intermittent Fasting Guide
http://www.dietdoctor.com/intermittent-fasting/time-restricted-eating
Note: I am not a keto/LCHF fan (any forbidden food triggers binge eating in my case). I eat daily 100-150 grams of carbs (resistant starch included), average weekly junk intake (to prevent binge episodes caused by frustration) = max 20%.
I have insulin resistance and binge eating disorder for more than 10 years.
I ate 2794 calories in a 4 hour eating window on Friday (including a bottle of red and 2 glasses of Baileys). That’s why it wouldn’t work for me. I can eat a LOT in 8 hours. Hence I fast 2 days a week and stick to my TDEE other days, with the exception of Friday night which I gave myself a stern talking to about on Saturday morning.
Happynow you don’t sound very happy. Do you need a hug?
Oh Happy:
The standard ‘whatever works for you’ cop out. As you know, the only research on eating windows (20:4) concluded that “The present findings suggest that, without a reduction in calorie intake, a reduced-meal-frequency diet does not afford major health benefits in humans.”
If the concept helps a person eat less during the day – go for it! But it really isn’t 16:8 at work, it is just ‘I chose only to eat this much food while I was awake today’.
Self control is the ‘tool’, not 16:8. Anyone can eat over their TDEE in an hour, much less in eight hours. So the ‘window’ is unimportant, but the resolve to not eat over the TDEE during the waking hours is.
Well Simco, I can only advise people to read that paper themselves and not rely on your slightly misleading take home message.
I haven’t written a diet book and got rich and, on the evidence before me, I suspect neither have you! So if it’s OK with you (and even it is isn’t 😀), I’ll continue to listen to the acknowledged experts (such as Jason Fung) in respect of the benefits of prolonged periods without food.
Elphaba, thanks! Everyone needs a hug every now and then.
@elphaba
Of course I am/was able to eat over my TDEE in a 2 hours window. The key for me to not do this anymore was:
– be persistent in longer fasting intervals, because it takes a few weeks until the body adapts and does not create anymore the urge to binge. In my opinion (which I do not wish to debate) the permanent alternation FD / 2 NFD with a large eating window (like over 8 hours) stresses the body more than a permanent smaller eating window (2 meals a day in less than 6 hours). And stress = overeating / binge.
– know my triggers. If I know that forbidden foods are triggers, I do not forbidd food. I eat what I crave, when I crave it.
– listen to my body saying it’s hungry. On any eating pattern that creates a caloric deficit, the body may say one day “I do not want to lose anymore at this moment!”. And my opinion is that it’s better on long term, to listen.
– lose the dieting mentality: all or nothing, black or white. Like when I tasted something forbidden or 100 calories over my allowance, and then eat the whole fridge because.. well.. “the day I ruined anyway”.
Quote: “If the concept helps a person eat less during the day – go for it! But it really isn’t 16:8 at work, it is just ‘I chose only to eat this much food while I was awake today’.
Self control is the ‘tool’, not 16:8. Anyone can eat over their TDEE in an hour, much less in eight hours. So the ‘window’ is unimportant, but the resolve to not eat over the TDEE during the waking hours is.”
I’m sorry to say it so blunt, but this is completely BS. You have NO idea what it means to suffer from an eating disorder. You do not get to “choose” anything! There is NO “self control” when it comes to physiological imbalances (cortisol, blood sugar, serotonin, dopamine, etc) that trigger the urge to binge. A smaller eating window and ALL the physiological (and more) benefits that come with it (listed in the article posted by me above), are vital in such cases.
And since we are A LOT of binge eaters on this forum, and since your voice is an important one here, please stop writing such false statements like “the window is unimportant”. You want to help, not to harm, even unintentionally.
So, 1 study only, conclusion ” the present findings suggest that without a reduction in calories, a reduced – frequency – diet does not afford major health benefits in humans.” So not specifically about weight. That doesn’t say to me that a restricted eating window doesn’t assist in weight loss.
Just about self-control? If it was just about self-control a lot of people would find it a lot easier to lose weight. Reducing all responses to just being about self control is simplistic.
I’ve done research on myself. Under medical and dietician supervision they and I discovered I have extensive food intolerance, and a significant number of those are of a type that causes food addiction in me and others. It’s a specific phenomena. This experiment lasted over a year. I have plenty of self-control but when there’s other responses in the body that have nothing to do with self-control it has consequences for weight control. Fast forward to 5:2
Enter The Hunger Dragon. It is obvious that on the forum there are people who recognise what is called The Hunger Dragon, and there are those who don’t. It has nothing to do with self-control either. I don’t know the physiological mechanism behind it, and I don’t really care what it is. This time no medicos involved but I have experimented on myself and The Hunger Dragon is a real phenomena as far as I’m concerned. It is separate from the normal experience of hunger and the management of it by strategies and self control, and is related by time to the 1st ingestion of food on any day. Statistically relevant? Of course not, but it doesn’t make it any less relevant for me. 16:8 is a definite tool.
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