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Day 4 – Montreal – NFD
I’ve got a big party to go to tonight, so am mentally preparing myself not to go crazy. Yesterday’s fast day went well, I didn’t feel hungry at all. 2/8 done.
Now I have 3 days off work and the challenges begin. My weak time is in front of the tv in the evening as I tend to graze/gorge ad infinitum.
Day 4 USA (Illinois) NFD
Thanks to all of you for you kind words of concern for my brother. @and…exhale, @annemarilyn, @coda, @pamelav, @hannahwatto, @jojo58, @at, @bert1802, @lilymartin, @biddiev, @happymargo, @reid — hope I didn’t miss anyone, but it’s truly amazing how you’ve become family to me since my first challenge with Coda in May. We’ve been through a lot together.
Brother is attached to many tubes and devices. It is hard to see him unable to talk much with the tracheotomy and breathing machines. He is completely lucid, though, and generally out of pain. He is expecting to turn 72 in mid March. Now that the pneumonia is much under control, though, he has developed some abdominal bleeding they are trying to stop, unknown cause. I honestly don’t know if he can fight all these conditions, but I felt confident his fiancee is far and away his best health advocate. She has fight enough for both of them!
With the travel and all, I’ve done amazingly well at not eating too much, often 2 meals per day. Did indulge in a hamburger (sans bun) at the airport yesterday.
I did get a chance to read and catch up on posts. If you have any doubts about if this IF works, I heard on the radio that not only is our WOL good for weight loss, more doctors are agreeing it also has heart benefits and lowering of “bad” cholesterol! I am nearing my 1 year anniversary of losing over 30 pounds and maintaining it. Give it a chance. Do the hard work of counting and tabulating the calories. Get in some power walks if you are able. The moving of your body is very important too but not all it is hyped up to be for weight loss in my book!
Onward and downward!
Day 5 NFD NZ
I was a little over TDEE yesterday but not ridiculously so.
Today is pretty well planned in my head and I’m spurred on by my progress from last week.
Everything will go into MFP again and my metabolism will thank me for reminding it I’m not starving and in my upcoming FD tomorrow it will be safe for my body to allow fat usage and susbsequent weight discarding….not loss, I have no intentions of finding it again!
Looking forward to a glorious summe day home with my family and another tomorrow for our Waitangi Day long weekend.
Hi just me again. I have just discovered something I didn’t know! I thought to read profiles or replies created by someone you clicked on their name at the start of their post. I thought by using @ before a name it just highlighted it but if you click on for example @fuvvie it will take you to Fuvvie’s page. Lol
All food entered on mfp and below my Tdee, yay, now just to repeat tomorrow.
Day 4 – Cumbria UK – NFD
Weight this morning still staying just below target so very happy with that!
Busy day today probably just over TDEE today as had a couple of glasses of champagne – how decadent!
Scotland did well in the Rugby today but England were lucky to get away with a win against France today…….
Will try to catch up with the posts tomorrow
Day 5 FD Sydney 10.16am (Day 3 was also a FD – may have forgot to say LynzM)
Goal weight: 70-75kg
February challenge
Day 1: 86.7
Day 4: 85
Day 5: Second fast day on a Sunday because I couldn’t muster the focus earlier in the week. Those 3 fast days last week were really too much. It’s gonna be a scorcher here today 38C. Heading for a swim and then aircon.
Day 4, Missouri Ozarks, NFD
Hope I can still get in on the February challenge.
Have about ten pounds to lose and have been very successful with this type of eating. Was actually a member of this thread last year (name Linda Sue) but got a different computer and somehow couldn’t access my account.
Lost all the weight I wanted last year but, SOMEHOW, it found its way back home.
No fear, I know I can do this and love the support of this board.
Will weigh in tomorrow morning, just bought a new scale.
Hi externallygrateful (aka linda sue) just jump in – you know the drill lol. So this time you will ditch the weight rather than lose it (which as someone pointed out – do we intend to find it again)? It will never be found again and some here are maintaining so will be able to give you some pointers. x
Day 5 Tas Australia FD 66.1kgs
Back to a fd today, don’t want that figure to get any higher. Have woken up with a bit of a tummy bug so don’t think the fasting will be hard at all today. In the past I might have thought not being well would mean I needed to eat for strength or something but since reading Jason Fung’s books I know that isn’t true and really do wonder at the amount of rubbish we have been taught as fact!
@blueninjamama so glad that you did get the delayed weight drop. It can be a bit depressing when you have worked so hard so glad it did work out. Also fantastic drop for the last month!
There had been a lot of talk about water and I thought I’d add in my 2 cents worth! 😉 I find that I have to filter my water or I don’t want to drink it. When I filter it there is pretty much no taste to the water. I have a big ceramic filter at home on my bench in the kitchen but when I went away last year I bought one of those filter jugs and took it with us. It was great as my kids hate yucky water too and are used to drinking it filtered. I also took it on our road trip over Christmas for the same reason and it was fantastic! It is just so hard to make yourself drink water that doesn’t taste any good. Anyway that’s made all the difference for us.
Songbirdme
7 benefits of walking 30 minutes per day
You will improve your mood
Your creative juices will start flowing
Your jeans will get looser
You’ll slash your risk of chronic heart disease
You’ll keep your legs looking great
You’ll start to get a more regular digestive system
Your other goals will start to seem more reachable
I have been a daily walker for 12 years since getting a couple of rescue dogs. It’s now ingrained, I fully support the above benefits. Scientific back up available, google ‘benefits of walking’
These days I walk using Nordic Poles which add even more benefits.
Try it, good luck
Remember to take water if it’s warm out or walking longer than 20 minutes please.
Day 5 – Perth AUS – NFD
D1 weight: 74.0kg
D5 weight: 70.1kg
D28 weight (target): 70-ish kg
Ultimate goal weight: 65kg
Well today is weigh in day. I haven’t been doing the HIIT I promised myself at the start 😐 Housework counts, right? 😛 I got up and ate breakfast because I thought I should, wasn’t actually hungry. That’s my next habit to break 🙂
Yesterday was a FD and I rediscovered the joys of palak paneer (spinach and cheese curry) and had a kid’s size Subway sandwich for dinner. I do a whole bunch of other measurements (waist, hip, wrist, neck, bust, under bust, thigh and calf) as the scales sometimes don’t move (or lie!) but I find the centimetres are more truthful. Was super happy to see my stubborn hip measurement has actually come down a little! Now to keep it that way. I’m thinking with today’s amazing scale number there’s some water loss going on or maybe Day 1 was a fat day, actually no – it’s probably a combination! The weight loss is too much.
A few other people (sorry can’t remember who) mentioned curry in this thread and I remembered palak paneer is low in calories (as opposed to my usual creamy/buttery favorites) and it’s low enough that I could whip some up on a fast day! Found a super simple recipe online and didn’t add the optional cream. The hardest bit was finding paneer cheese in my local shops! The spinach is also high in magnesium, so hoping that plus a Mg supplement plus a multi-vitamin would help with my RLS. I’ve got a slight feeling of it, but didn’t get woken up by it last night, so fast day for me might just turn into CURRY DAY! Now THAT is something to look forward to!
Thanks everyone for sharing advice and experiences 😀 I’ve been struggling since November trying to adjust or properly adopt this way of eating, and I feel like I’m finally getting somewhere now because it feels good, not bothersome. It’s YOU that’s helping me do it! So even if you have a crappy day, know you’re helping other people 🙂
Day 4 – SW WA USA – NFD
Finally able to log in. Have been at an all-day workshop. It was great but long!
Loved reading the posts! Wonderful sharing; so encouraging.
It’s interesting to read of the different things people eat and what they’re called in different places. We’re expanding our vocabulary as we go; an added bonus.
Goal-wise this week – I need to be more conscious of my water consumption instead of assuming I’m drinking enough. I too drink filtered water; taking out the chlorine smell & taste… I don’t know if I’ve seen either Dr. Mosely or Dr. Fung mention how much water to drink. Elsewhere I’ve read we should be drinking 1/2 out weight in ozs in a day. What say you?
Day 4 – still
DH made the most gorgeous gluten-free almond/orange cake recipe from The Guardian on from last Thursday. I carefully mapped my calories today so that I could have a slice AND 1/2 bottle red wine… then also consumed too many Miss Vickies Salt & Vinegar Crisps… oh well…
@loubelles – it seems incredibly exotic to me that you could be in TASMANIA! wow! I am a mother of four (two of them step-children) and am 39 so not far off you … hearing your voice at such a distance is such a fun part of this forum 🙂
@elektron – Palak Paneer has to be one of my top ten foods of all time. You can make paneer cheese with yogurt, lemon and a bit of cheesecloth and time 🙂
@songbirdme – it must be so hard to see your brother so vulnerable. How tremendous and beautiful that he has a partner so optimistic by his side. Life is beautiful even in it’s hardest moments.
@whisky184 – The beauty of the moment is the thing, as you say. Scales and their delayed responses secondary.
Onwards! Am planning to enjoy my non fast day tomorrow but will curtail wine and stop eating at 6 pm to lead into Monday FD.
2nd post on Day 4… only 2 hours to go to complete the 24 hour FD. DH is happy with the the plates I made for us of boiled eggs and veggies and a little tuna we had this afternoon. Finishing up tonight the with the 10 calorie tofu noodles in some broth with veggies. Hope this will get me back into real FD’s, not just 16:8 LCHF that I’ve been doing.
Day 5 Australia NFD we are moving offices and yesterday the whole family helped me pack up the old office and carry and install the computers in the new office. It took multiple trips and a whole day in incredible heat but we did it! I have to be at the old office at 6:30am tomorrow to oversee the furniture removal and then the rest of the day will be spent unpacking and sorting out the new office. Exhausting but exciting! This whole building issue has been going on for more than a year. It has been very stressful but we are nearly through it and I have promised myself that I will then concentrate on me and my family and the rest of the world can stand in line! 🙂
Wow, @jojo58 – what a terrific list! I always knew power walks were a good thing, but never realized all of those 7 benefits. It still seems to me that exercise alone will not shed the weight the way FD’s do.
@blueinjamum — you are right. It is hard to see Big Bro so vulnerable. It does reinforce for me though the benefits of healthy eating and living.
@eternallygrateful (Linda Sue) good to see you back again! We’re here to support everyone!
Day 4 US NFD
It’s amazing how much less I am eating on NFDs. I think my stomach is shrinking as I am just not nearly as hungry anymore. This is probably due to the increased water intake as well. I’m getting about 100 ounces. I believe drinking it at room temp makes it so much easier to drink a lot at a time. Oh how I love walking too! My days just aren’t complete if I can’t get outside for a long walk in the fresh air. Wishing you all well!
Day 4 – NFD Washington USA
Not feeling much hunger today, love that feeling! Stayed under my TDEE today but like many others here I need to drink more water. I do fine during the week at work but come weekends I’m not so good at it. One of my favorite water drinks I do is a liter bottle with Crystal Light (a water flavoring, has 10 calories per little packet) I use one orange packet and one lemon then put a little bit of sea salt in and shake it up really good, taste a lot like a margarita! Yummmmm!
Tomorrow is the Super Bowl in the US, planning on having some delightful food without going overboard and staying low carb!
Keep visualizing your goals everyone, it’s a marathon we’re in, not a sprint.
Days 4 & 5 Dunsborough Western Australia NFDs
@lynzm – sorry I didn’t check in yesterday. We are moving house this weekend and yesterday was the BIG day. Made gazpacho soup for lunch which was also very popular with the helpers, and had kale slaw with feta and Olive oil and apple cider vinegar dressing.
Today is my weigh in day, but my scales are still at the old house. But I’m not too bothered really because the number on the scale doesn’t mean a lot. I know I’m overweight and don’t really need reminders of how much! But I will weigh tomorrow just to make sure I’m headed downwards – which I expect to be.
Loving reading all the posts. You guys are so amazing at sharing. I really have learned such a lot just by reading all your amazing journals.
@fuvvie – loved your funny post. Have taken a screenshot and will read often. Laughed out loud.
@coda – thanks for your long inspirational narrative. I started skipping over it because it’s so long and I’m stuck with only my phone for Internet access atm at the new house. But after skimming decided it was a must read and scrolled back up to read it all.
Hope I got your names right guys. Need a pan and paper to make notes.
Cheers…
Day 4, Oceanside CA, NFD
Woke up to the surf pounding and enjoyed another beautiful 4 mile beach walk. The views on our walks make them so much more enjoyable. At home in PA I hike steep hills and see changes in the trees and foliage and an occasional deer. Walking wherever we live is a daily staple.
Enjoyed protein breakfast and quiet day. Second walk in afternoon. Nice steak dinner with fresh beans and sweet potato. A Cosmo and glass of wine and all within TDEE.
Fast 5:2 is just that. 5 days of common sense eating and 2 days of non consecutive fast restriction. Benefits outstanding. And a steady loss of fat too.
On to Super Bowl Sunday. It is an American tradition to enjoy the game with friends and toast to the teams. There are no losers. We are all winners.
Day 5 NFD Country West Australia
Yesterday’s FD was the hardest I have done since starting in November last year.
Kept opening the fridge door and peering in at the shelves just like my teenage sons do, but then shut the door without taking any food out.
I opened and shut the cake tins numerous times. Once I gathered a few crumbs together thinking ‘ this little bit won’t hurt’ … but then put them in the compost bin.
Had the munchies but kept them controlled with lots of glasses of water.
Unlike others I love drinking water and never have difficulty drinking several glasses a day.
We are fortunate to have our own rainwater and it doesn’t really have a taste. I do have problems with water when I go to town or the city – water tastes terrible.
City friends love the taste of our ‘pure’ rainwater caught off our roof. I don’t tell them about all the birds that perch on it , lol.
Hungrier than I have been in ages today but keeping it under control thinking about how the scales will go down ….sometime.
@amandah oh my ! What a challenge! I have just watched Ric Stein in Greece and the food was amazing!! but sounded pretty healthy – gallons of olive oil and lots of veggies and fish.
Day 5 / Sweden / NFD
Happy birthday @quebecoise!
Welcome @amandah. If you have any questions, there’s always someone here to help. When posting start with day of the month, where you are and whether it’s a fast day or non-fast day so @lynzm can log you in her notes.
Have a great Day 5 everyone! Cheerio!
Day 5 Sunshine Coast Qld Australia NFD: Haven’t weighed today as I wasn’t in my own home this morning. Have to admit I have gone right off the rails these last 2 days. Even drank a lot of pro secco this afternoon, bikkies and cheese. Not going to eat dinner as I feel very full. Yesterday was so much fun on the boat cruise. The Noosa River and the entrance/bar at the mouth of the river was just beautiful. People out in their multitudes. One girl was paddle boarding with her dog also standing on the paddle board. He was a shaggy dog and looked perfectly at ease. Lots of food, then back to our friend’s place for the night and spent ages in the pool as it was very hot. Pool was tepid, but delightful for all of that. good music and good company. Didn’t get to bed till after midnight, almost 1am and then up and into the pool at 6am. Walked to the local farmer’s market and had roti and chicken curry for breakfast and a dutch deep fried bolon….(forget the name). Delicious, but I now have to put the feasting behind me and get back into the spirit of 5:2.
Fasting tomorrow and hoping for more control.
Day 5. Belfast NFD a lovely cold and frosty morning
Have eaten and drunk far too many calories this weekend so far, so the scales are telling porkies. So… a careful CD today and back to back fast on Mon and Tues.
I managed three hour swims last week, about 210 lengths in all, but haven’t done much else. I like the idea of doing squats to tunes on the radio, so I brought my weights downstairs and started to a song with a good rhythm. I was knackered after a few minutes, and to make matters worse, OH laughed at me. Lesson learnt – I’ll do it in private! Maybe a walk later.
@songbirdme I’m sorry to read about your brother. You and your family family are in my prayers. My mum passed away 15 months ago and it made me reassess my lifestyle. It was on the back of that I realised that my excess pounds weren’t going to fall off by themselves and I joined this WOL. It’s the best thing I’ve done.
Welcome to everyone who has joined in the last couple of days. You’re in the right place for lots of encouragement. This forum is great.
Anyway, onwards and downwards! Cheerio and have a good day everyone!
Day 5 – Switzerland – NFD
Joyeuse anniversaire @quebecoise!
Aiming to log everything on MFP today, no random blow-outs, no excuses. Got rather peckish, rather than actually hungry, last night after eating up my 500 kcals so had a very hot bath and went to bed early rather than risk raiding the cupboards again. Oh my glamorous life!
My plan to take the kids out for a long brisk walk has been rather squished by freezing sleet this morning, so did a static row instead and they are still in their pyjamas!
Day 5: Another non-fast day from Gloucestershire, UK:
I’m deeply worried where this is all going. I achieved my weight-loss goal of losing the whole 28 pounds by last September…but I can no longer properly stick to fast days since Christmas and, as a result, every time I weigh myself, I’m heavier than the last time. Seven or eight pounds up now. So dispiriting. As I say, I’m deeply worried as to how I can ever pull myself back into the way of life…which went so well, for a few good months last year. I know it’s as much a state of mind as anything, my motivation seems to have deserted me. My worst fear is putting it all back on.
Help…please…(if you can).
Hey @ciren2
I was so impressed when you hit goal weight back in September – sorry to hear you’re having a tough time now.
You’re not alone! There’s so much more to losing weight than just achieving a calorie deficit – we have to shoulder the responsibility of being in control of our bodies, our emotions, our health and how we feel about ourselves.
It must be even more tough if you’ve already got down to the weight you were aiming for, and have to fight back against it creeping back on again…
One thing 5:2 has shown me – which I really wasn’t expecting – is how much I use food to ‘self-medicate’, and ‘fix’ how I feel. I don’t think it’s ‘proper’ depression as I’ve seen that hit people and sweep them out into the depths, but somedays it feels like a persistent undertow that’s tiring to swim against. And food works, not to solve the underlying issues, but to help me keep on ignoring them and stay in my comfort zone!
Fast days strip away some of the protection that food gives me, and help me look at my problems face-on, and try to unpick them with an aim to understanding myself a bit better. I’ve been seeing a counsellor too. Her mantra is that we need to be kind to ourselves, but for me, at the moment, being kind is working towards ridding myself of the overweight I’ve lugged around all my adult life.
You’ve put in so much hard work to get to where you were in September. I think you’re right to be worried about the weight sneaking on again. Do you have any insight into why you are finding FDs difficult to complete?
Day 5– Colorado USA– NFD
Even though on vacation, I did well food-wise yesterday right up until dinner out at restaurant with in-laws. Blew the doors off with my meal, hovered up the entire plate. Then just kept going! 🍺🍺Even drank 2 pints of beer & fed my sweet tooth (which I haven’t done in a long, long time.).
Stupid brain rationalized it as “Go ahead! You’re on vacation!”😝 Grrrr!!!
Sigh. I want to relax & enjoy vacation. But I don’t want to undo all my hard work & re-fight those same battles when I get home.
I know you guys will have some wonderful advice & words of wisdom on how to handle this ( because currently I’m too much in the thick of it to see clearly!) So I will sneak away later for some alone reading time to catch up on this inspiring thread.
TTFN. (Ta-ta for now,)
Day 5 Surrey UK NFD First want to say to Songbirdme, ever since you mentioned your brother you and he have been in my thoughts and prayers…I do hope he pulls through. @ciren2, how far is Gloucestershire from Surrey? I will have a look on the map…perhaps we could meet. You have reached goal weight and put on a few pounds, I have at least 20 kilograms to still lose..perhaps you could help me and I can learn from you how you did it? Something must have really kept you going! I really don’t have an option of giving up because I really don’t want to go back to 103 kgs. My problem is after a hard day of life stuff happening everyday, I have a habit of nibbling a bit…this has to stop.
Anyway, weighed in this morning and now at 96.8 kgs. I so badly want to just see the number in the 80’s and then down from there. I feel so much better now with the few kilo’s lost already that I know it can only improve. Sure I could learn a lot from you!
Ciren2,
Firstly, well done on losing 28 lbs last year and reaching goal.
I also regained weight last year mainly because I was not weighing myself enough. I had had a long trip which ended with gall bladder flare up, then returned home to face my flat being wrecked by a tenant, then operation, then moving house. It was all too much to control. I was fasting but obviously eating too much on non fast days. I even managed a five day zero calorie fast but regained it again very quickly. So basically I wasted 8 months. I decided I needed help so joined a Slimming Club. It got me back to being mindful even though I totally ignore their low fat programme. So I ‘use’ them for a weekly ‘weigh in’ and to surround myself with people who have the same problems. It’s a bit like a thread in many ways but because you are paying you feel you should really make an effort. I have lost or maintained weight since then. I am on holiday again but am determined not to gain, it’s why I joined this thread as not back at slimming club for another week. If you need support go out and get it. There is no shame in getting help. We are food addicts, it’s a fact, it is not easy to break long term habits and it can get you down. Over three years I have changed my diet 100 %, I never thought I would. Society these days is very obsessed with food, cookery shows, huge supermarkets books about healthy eating, non stop to adverts, lots of restaurants and take away foods.It’s very difficult to put food in perspective.
I started 23/1 so I only need to think about food for one hour per day maximum. It is incredibly empowering, try it for a day. Drink a hot tea or water every hour of non eating during the rest of the day. Stop drinking before 8 pm so your sleep is not disturbed too much. Good Luck!
DAY 5 – Cardiff UK – NFD
Starting weight : 173.3lb
Today’s weight : 170.1lb (3.2lb)
Really good FD yesterday, and thanks to @lynmz managed to drink 2L for probably the first time ever. Have discovered I can drink water if I add few drops of lime juice.
Hoping to have a sensible NFD today and try to maintain my loss until my Tuesday weigh day.
Still managing to keep off the sugar and not really missing it.
@ciren2 you’ve accepted that you’re struggling and I always think that’s the first step to taking back control. You know deep down you can do this, you’ve already done it once. I’ve still got around 40lb to lose and knowing that people like you have achieved your goal is really motivating.
When I’m struggling I think:
– Yesterday has already gone, I can’t change it, so why worry about it.
– Today I can control what I do, and if I’ve already made a bad choice I
can still pull it back and not make it a total failure.
– Tomorrow is full of possibilities, so plan how I want it to go.
Keep checking in for support.
I think I’ll try for 3 FD next week, M, W & F. M & F will be liquid only and W I’ll try and stick to 500 cals, but actually think this will be the toughest of the lot.
Good luck to everyone, really enjoying reading all the posts and picking up hints and tis for this WOL x
Day 4 Melbourne NFD
@ciren2
Sending you the warmest thoughts and prayers from the other side of the world. You have done it before, so eventually you will sort out the cause of this hiccup. Perhaps easing up on yourself until you have found your mojo again, might help? Maybe doing 16:8 instead of full on fasting, or just ditching sugar … Any small thing that you might feel able to manage, rather than trying to force the full thing and feeling bad if it’s just not doable, in full, at the moment. Hopefully someone’s suggestion here will resonate with you x
@quebecoise Bonne Fete!
@happymargo well done for all that hard work in getting ‘poolside confident’ 🙋 One moment of jumping off the wagon won’t ruin it – that’s the lovely thing! You can just jump right on again, especially knowing that we are all here travelling along in the carriage with you 👯👯👯👯👯
Happy new week to all TTFN
Day 5….. Florida…..NFD
Ciren…… I’m sorry you are having some troubles my friend! I struggle too, you are not alone! Sometimes in our journey, we have to break it down, take it day by day, hour by hour even minute by minute.
When I have a lot to do, I make you self a time lined to do list. What this list is basically, a list of everything I must get done but with time limits. FYI, I use this method also when I’m being lazy.
Maybe you could use it to get a FD in….
example of a list
9am- 10am…. chew gum
10am-10:30… drink one cup of tea
10:30-11:00 eat 2 cups of lettuce
Having a time line keeps me motivated and on track.
Maybe it could help you?
I’m holding on to you and shouldering some of your struggle!
So, last night, hubby and I went on a wilderness journey and stopped by our favorite Mexican place. Oh my Im feeling it this morning. Not sure if it was because we ate so late or the fact it was covered in a creamy cheese sauce. Today, is a NFD but I’m gonna try to keep it on the light side.
Did get all my weekend chores done yesterday, so, it’s gonna be a lazy hang out day!
As we speak right now, we’re just lying in bed, drinking coffee and watching old music videos……
Special Birthday Wishes to Quebecoise!
Welcome to all the newbie!
Brighton Belle……have fun in Rome….. stop back in when you get back and tell us of all your adventures!
Cheerio!
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We pay tribute to our dear friend and colleague, Dr. Michael Mosley. Michael was an integral part of our lives, […]
Michael is touring Australia this September! Here's a link to dates and tickets. Hope to see you there.
Michael Mosley gives an update for 2019, current research in the field and announces a tour starting in February.
in Welcome to The Fast Diet and Exercise forums • updated 3 hours, 5 minutes ago by Merryapple
in Weight loss • updated 4 hours, 58 minutes ago by Brads27
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7:58 pm
4 Feb 17