The 5:2 Diet and Anorexia – My Question

This topic contains 15 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Delia87 10 years ago.

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Skryfster

5:25 pm
10 May 14
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Hello there!

I am sixteen, female, and I have Asperger’s syndrome, a type of autism.
It impacts my life every day – every moment, even – and it certainly gave me the base level from which to build my second issue: anorexia nervosa.
I have had this latter for over a year, and I was so confused about my weight – I was and still am convinced of my obesity – that I did some really stupid things.
The first was put myself on a daily diet of 578 calories. It was no doubt one of the most gravely stupid actions I have ever taken. Thankfully I do not want children, because I stopped menstruating and have not yet restarted (although there is hope, there).
Anyway, I was weak and feeble – who wouldn’t be? I also exercise every day – so in the end I told my mum, who is also my dearest friend.
Concerned and ready to aid me, she decided to step in and give me a helping hand sorting out my issues.
I am a vegan – vegetarian due to my moral codes, and vegan due to food intolerances – but I am (I know this probably sounds contrary, but it is true) very health-conscious. I try to eat in a balanced, healthful and nutritious way.
I did want to lose a little weight (and I am now doing great, according to my mum) and so I decided to go with the 5:2 diet.
All I can say is that it has helped me immensely. Suddenly, when I look in the mirror, I can just about cope with the person standing there. Most people would think me slim anyway, but being the way I am, I always see illusionary folds of fat – but I can cope with them now. I can cope altogether.
Anyway, the question really lies in this arena – in the remit of ‘non-fast’, or ‘feast’ days.
On such days I consume approximately 1,200 calories.
I eat healthy, balanced meals; beans and pulses, with lots of rice; vegetables; fruit: soya products such as tofu; and I also eat ground flax seeds, which are wonderful for me. I take a multivitamin and a calcium and vitamin D supplement – essential for vegans like me.
The question is this – is this OK? Is it healthy? I mean, I feel great!
I walk 5 miles most days on an empty stomach (as a person with autism, I feel better walking having not eaten – it makes me feel calmer) as well as lifting weights and doing Zumba Fitness at home with my mum.
On fast days I will usually just go for a 5 mile walk in the morning, and then spend the rest of the day resting.
Now. I suppose my height and weight figures are important here.
I am exceptionally small – I am absolutely tiny! – and I don’t weigh much anyway.
I am 4 feet and 11 inches tall.
I weigh between 80 and 86 pounds.
I am sixteen, and I have a light build.
What do you think?
Is 500 calories, two days a week, and 1,200 calories on the remaining five days OK?
It seems a good thing for my mind at the moment, you know. I have a great deal of trouble dealing with my thoughts, and this seems to be something I can manage.
Please let me know!
Thank you very much,
Skryfster

JIPWGP

6:20 pm
10 May 14
Permalink

Hi skryfster, Welcome to our threads, there are a lot of lovely people on them full of useful information that they have heard or done, I am sure you will fine them all interesting.
I wish you all the luck in the world and good health too. I am over 50 years older than you and I have a 39 year daughter and we have always argued with our weight, it’s funny that we are never satisfied with the way we look. I am now at a nice weight for my age and weight and I like what I see in the mirror. I hope you find the answers you are looking for and remember to (stop and smell the roses) I have been on some sort of diet since I was sixteen. if I could give my sixteen year old self a little bit of advice it would be take it one day at a time and try to enjoy life. Good luck and lots of good wishes. JIP

franfit

6:32 pm
10 May 14
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Skryfster, although fasting is not generally recommended for people under 18 (who are presumably still growing), or people with a history of anorexia nervosa, it sounds to me like you have used IF to get a much better handle on your issues than you had previously, so I would like to compliment you on your efforts.

According to the BMI/TDEE calculator, someone of your age and height has a BMI of 17.4 at 86 pounds, which is technically underweight. When I was your age, my BMI sometimes went that low, but I looked too thin, even to myself, below a BMI of 17.5 (102 pounds at 5’4″), although I sometimes did weigh less, below 100 pounds I would actually eat more to gain some weight back. When you feel up to it, you might want to try gaining enough weight for your menses to re-start. Just a thought. To me that’s more of an indicator of health than the BMI number; after all, some of us just really are small, have a tiny rib cage and a narrow pelvis.

At your height and weight, and at the “moderately active” level, which it sounds like you are, a caloric intake of about 1683 calories per day, or 11,700 calories per week, would result in most people staying the same weight. That would work out to more like 2140 calories on the non-fasting days. So it’s surprising if you’re not continuing to lose weight now.

If you point your mouse at the “how” tab at the top of the page, it will take to to a BMI/TDEE calculator, so you can check my figures.

My son doesn’t have Asperger’s, but he does have Tourette/OCD/ADHD, which some people think is on the same spectrum, so I understand something about the perfectionism and the need to get things “just right”. So do keep in mind that TDEE calculators come up with average numbers, most people in reality need somewhat more or fewer calories to maintain their weight. But however you slice it, it sounds like you could safely consume substantially more calories on your non-fasting days and be healthier than you are now.

I’m an ovo-lacto vegetarian who eats fish about once a week. I love to eat a big pile of beans and greens on some polenta or whole-grain bread. Your vegan diet sounds good to me in quality, perhaps just lacking in quantity, and perhaps in vitamin B12 and iron, you might want to have those levels checked some time.

Best wishes for your good health on all fronts.

Skryfster

7:02 pm
10 May 14
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Hi,
thank you for taking the time to reply to my question.
Yes, I too looked at the recommended calorie amount for non-fast days, but I don’t know if I could do it.
I feel so good as I am, and I don’t want to restart my ‘anorexic illusion’.
I used to panic so much about various things – as a result of my Asperger’s – that I barely ate at all as a kid, and although my wonderful parents tried like Trojans to get me to eat, I just wouldn’t. As a result, I stopped growing completely at the age of 11. I am also of Indian heritage, and Asian girls generally develop earlier. Thus, I probably am of adult proportions now (two years ago, a doctor told me something similar).
My mum was so thin as a young woman that she was called a ‘skeleton’ – yet she ate like a horse, in her words. She is still very bony, like me – I imagine that her BMI would be well below the recommended guidelines – so I don’t think I am underweight at all.
I still have a little fat, and I feel fine – so surely I am OK?
I know that the 5:2 diet isn’t always recommended for anorexic people, but like you wisely pointed out, it seems to have brought me a long way and given me a handle on things.
Do you think that I could be healthy on 1,200 kcal five days a week, and 500 kcal two days a week? I am very wisely planning each meal (Asperger’s people tend to be hellish perfectionists, which could be good or bad, depending on how you look at it – I tend to try to see the advantages) with good, balanced nutrition and ultimate ‘bang for my buck’ (nutrition for calories).
If I don’t feel deprived, and feel healthy, do you think it is OK? I don’t think my mind could cope with any more calories than I’m on.
Thank you again, and I would really value your follow-up opinion. You sound knowledgeable, and my dad always teaches me that strength is knowledge!
Skryfster

franfit

7:30 pm
10 May 14
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Skryfster, it sounds like 500 calories two days a week and 1200 calories 5 days a week is much healthier than what you were doing previously. I understand wanting to be careful not to provoke a relapse into active anorexia nervosa, that would be much worse. However, if you still don’t have your menses, it isn’t quite as healthy as it could be. When you feel more confident maybe try increasing non-fasting day calories by 50 or 100 calories a day for a while and see how you tolerate it — then slowly increase as tolerated just until you get your menses back, whatever those numbers turn out to be for calories and weight. But not trying to go so quickly that you provoke a relapse. Just as much as you feel you can realistically do, even if that’s staying the same for a while. Other than not having your menses you feel fine, and are doing something far healthier than you were before. That’s wonderful. I believe you will continue to make progress.

SAMM

7:41 pm
10 May 14
Permalink

I’m not qualified to give credible advice.

However the best thing you can do is stay vocal! Allowing other to share their opinions with you may help finding the best answer that also makes sense to you. Join a team sport if you able, this may give you social aspect to achieve goals to weigh similarly to others on the team.

Beauty is a perception.
If you are able to know what number of calories you doctor want you to eat. It may help if doctor also know the amount of calories worth of exercise you also practicing. Most folks such as me have very little control over our diet. Just eat what we love as often as we can routinely. I wish I had the ability to control my intake as you. I would put it to good use. All I would need is my doctors recommendation on the amount of calories needed .
The only other thing I would suggest is two fruits and five vegtables a day. Those are carbs. So some of each of the other food groups. Oatmeal, cheese, nuts , and fish can be healthy. Umm probably not all at the same time. dare I say red kidney beans and blue berries for antioxidants. And almonds for skin. On the other hand if I wanted to gain fat, the only two food combination I know of that will pack it on . Is ramen noodles and a favorite sausage braut.
God I love that stuff!

Good luck to you!

Skryfster

10:07 pm
10 May 14
Permalink

franfit, your care and consideration is remarkable.
You also have a great deal of understated integrity – I feel no judgement in your words, only concern. That is good.
Now – I like your ideas. In fact, I think that they are rather brilliant.
I have heard that anorexic women who have lost their menses due to lack of calories often do not regain them for up to six months – and I only started this new diet about six weeks ago. What do you think about this: I stay on this diet for six months, and if I am still not menstruating by that time, I up my allowances by – like you say – 50 to 100 calories, or until I start again? I just don’t want to set off a relapse, and I am in a very fragile place right now.
I guess, if I do start my period again, there would be no problem in keeping with this diet – I get enough iron from leafy greens, as well as loads of parsley (a surprising superfood source of iron – it packs incredible amounts!), and all of my B vitamins from spirulina, a powdered alga which is quite ineffably wonderous.
What about that? Something I do know, however to back up the 1,200 calorie argument, is that in Okinawa, Japan, many people live on only 1200 for their entire lives – they make up the world’s greatest percentage of centenarians and are reputed to be some of the healthiest people alive.
Thank you for your time and support – I value it more than you would believe. As an autistic I find communication difficult, and while I have my mum, it is nice to be able to reach out and find supplementary support.
Skryfster

SAMM

1:16 am
11 May 14
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I like the indication that you understand nutrition’s role in longevity. I might add to the Japanese centenarians that there is also a culture in Italy that has similar rate of centenarians. What they have in common is dense nutrition and lots of low calorie foods, including fish, but that also meet their TDEE.
What’s important is good calcium absorption for young women in particular ,because calcium’s absobtion decreases in menopause . A lecture I once heard talked about the relationship of strong bones before becoming fully grown to avoid bone density issues later in life. It was about twenty five years ago, I heard it so there may have been some new insights. And quality improvements to calcium supplements for better absorption. What most folks miss about the role of bones is their main function is not structural, but rather to protect the marrow inside. Healthy bones in my opinion is best maintained by adequate protein three times a day. For most adult women a total of 75g of protein , so 25g 25g 25g avoid bone issues for most women on calorie restriction.
Wishing you well !

It’s a bit confusing. However this is what is recommended
There is no hard and fast way to measure your required protein intake – but rather, there are a few: by percentage of calories, by weight and by age. This may be confusing, but the end numbers for all measures are not so much conflicting as they are inclusionary.

The Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA) change with age:
Protein.
Infants require about 10 grams a day.
Teenage boys need up to 52 grams a day.
Teenage girls need 46 grams a day.
Adult men need about 56 grams a day.
Adult women need about 46 grams a day.
Pregnant or lactating women need about 71 grams a day.

Also you can increase iron in foods just a little if you cook in an iron skillet.

franfit

11:14 am
11 May 14
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Skryfster, thank you for your lovely compliments. I think your plan is a good one. You at least feel well now, do not appear to be in acute danger nutritionally (it sounds like your Mom would notice that, for sure, if you weren’t able to yourself), and you need time to heal. Setting off a relapse of the anorexia nervosa would, I agree, be the worst outcome right now. So continue to treat yourself with care. If you feel a need to experiment with a few more calories before the six months is up, I think that would be OK. I wish you the best!

hermajtomomi

4:58 pm
11 May 14
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Skryfster, whatever other problems you may have (and I think you are being very mature and sensible in your efforts to solve them) writing isn’t one of them. Putting it simply, you are one hell of a good writer – articulate, elegant and stylish. I now write for a living, but at 16, and even at 26, I wasn’t in the same league as you. You, your mum and your dad have every reason to be proud.

Skryfster

8:12 pm
11 May 14
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Thank you very much for your kind and certainly hyperbolic compliments about my writing – you have no idea how pleased you have made me.
Actually, I write professionally too! I have written five novels and several short stories but I have not yet put them under the nose of the publisher – hopefully by the end of the year.
My name is actually Lydia, but my username – Skryfster – translates as ‘author’ in Afrikaans, my other language.
I don’t think I have talent in the slightest – it is so wonderfully kind to have someone aside from my parents who does.

Skryfster

8:19 pm
11 May 14
Permalink

Hi SAMM – thank you for taking the time to comment.
Yes, I do have that much protein in my diet.
I have lots of pulses (legumes) and tofu, as well as spirulina, a protein-rich alga supplement that is high in B vitamins too.
As for calcium, I eat plenty of dark green vegetables, calcium-processed tofu, figs, and hazelnuts – four great sources of the stuff!
To reply to you as regards the centenarian studies, I must say that I disagree about reaching TDEE amounts. The indigenous peoples of Okinawa, Japan – and possibly those from Sardinia, too – rarely exceed 1,200 calories per day. If I were to meet my TDEE, I would consume about 1,600 – many heavy people, particularly men, would have to consume over 2000. That does not often occur in such long-lived cultures.
May I ask out of interest where you heard about centenarian cultures and TDEE? I have not yet heard of such information and as an autistic with a very intense interest in centenarian studies, I would be delighted to hear more!
Thank you for your wonderful concern, too!
Skryfster

SAMM

10:51 pm
11 May 14
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There is more than one way to get into natural DNA repair mode. Diet and Exercise being most prevalent. However there is also the underlying immune factors. Nothing is conclusive at this point. Why I believe centenarians successfully age is aging at the cellular lvl. That with antioxidants in the diet, in combination with routinely getting the body into DNA repair mode is a key factor. This why many obese people’s that exercise regularly live well into their 90s. Rather than a hard caloric reason, but like I said there is more than one way. It may be that the body simply gets better at it. Especially when it’s frequent. Hmmm like clock work. Where poor diet is like a clock that stalls rarely getting into our natural DNA repair mode.

hermajtomomi

2:58 pm
12 May 14
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Not only an excellent writer, Lydia, but bi-lingual too! Do you also write in Afrikaans? I’m green with envy. I’m a translator by trade (Spanish, French and German into English, specialising in Arts & Media) and have huge respect for anyone with multiple language skills.

The reason I felt I had to compliment you on your writing was because I know how good it feels. Only a couple of days ago, someone whose opinion I highly respect told me that my translation of a large and sometimes difficult French text was “a joy to read”, which made my day.

JIPWGP

6:14 pm
12 May 14
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Hi skryfster, what are your books about? Are they aimed at any age? I don’t read a lot of books only when someone recommends one and then I only read on holidays. I like women’s magazines because once I pick up a book I don’t seem to do anything else. I am like others on here believe your writing puts me to shame, English was never one of my strong points, that is why all my working life for 38 years was spent doing accounts and wages etc. good luck with everything you do and let us know when you get your books published. JIP

Delia87

5:44 am
10 Nov 14
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I hope you read this, because I’m going to give it to you straight: Yes, what you are doing is more healthy than just restricting, but recovering anorectics should never diet. Psychologically, it’s far too dangerous to risk.

No matter how recovered we feel, it is unsafe, no matter the diet, to engage in dieting behaviours.
If you are going to diet and no one can stop you, or you honestly feel it is the only way to prevent yourself from restricting entirely, than obviously you should keep on. However ideally, you would take in daily recommended calories and just use exercise (being careful not to over-exercise!) for weight maintenance. I say maintenance because as anorectics, we should not be trying to lose weight if you are an average weight or especially below, unless medically necessary.

Obviously, I suffer from anorexia, so I hope you know I have your best interests in mind when I say this.

I wish you all the best in whatever you decide to do.

<3 D