Smug, judgmental people who have never had a weight problem

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hermajtomomi

1:33 pm
8 Nov 13
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Warning: rant comin up!

Did anyone else based in the UK hear yesterday’s discussion about weight on the Jeremy Vine Show on BBC Radio 2? It arose out of a report about the incidence of obesity in Wales and Jeremy asked should the BMI goalposts be moved so that fewer people are classed as overweight – apparently 27.5 used to be considered a healthy BMI; now it’s 25.

The two guests were a large but obviously healthy and very fit and active woman and another who clearly has never had a weight problem. It was the latter who got up my nose. She came out with all the usual tired crap about the greed and laziness of the overweight, stating that they needed to take responsibility for themselves. She made no allowance for people like her fellow guest and, I suspect, pretty well anybody posting on this website, who were neither greedy nor lazy, who ate healthily and took regular exercise but had a metabolism that didn’t work in the same way as that of their thinner fellow citizens, or some other medical condition that made weight loss problematic. She took no account of people like me who, if they didn’t eat as carefully as they do, would end up weighing 25 stone.

And as for not taking responsibility, this judgmental female health Nazi(I’m refraining from using stronger language!) need only take a look at this forum to see just how much responsibility people of all ages ARE taking to live healthier lives and hopefully lose a bit of weight.

Right – I feel better for that. What do fellow posters think?

piper

2:03 pm
8 Nov 13
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We could all fill a book. Or a library.

Couscous

2:45 pm
8 Nov 13
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Hi hermajtomomi, great rant, I am with you all the way.

rockyromero

3:20 pm
8 Nov 13
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@hermajtomomi
” apparently 27.5 used to be considered a healthy BMI; now it’s 25.”

Glad that I made the cut, but then it’s just an opinion.

“see just how much responsibility people of all ages ARE taking to live healthier lives and hopefully lose a bit of weight.”

There are many reasons for those that have and those that have not. Opportunity, education, environment and being born in the right place are factors.

We all want to excel. It’s being human.

The rest is just opinions.

➰

piper

4:00 pm
8 Nov 13
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well said, Rocky

annette52

4:49 pm
8 Nov 13
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I saw an interesting series a few weeks ago called something like “The men who made us fat” and it was talking about in the US the debate between a bmi of 25 or 27.The pharmaceutical companies moved the goal posts on BMI, with some medics arguing that a BMI of 27 was perfectly healthy, but by declaring 27 as overweight, the drug companies were able to target far more people and therefore increase their profit.

I also learned that BMI was a construct dreamed up by the insurance companies to assess risk, which is why the new view is that one should be aiming for a waist measurement of less than half your height.

hermajtomomi

4:51 pm
8 Nov 13
Permalink

I agree, Rocky. The ability and motivation to try to live more healthily is also a social and cultural issue.

If you don’t have a job or one that pays badly – possibly but not necessarily because of a lack of education (think university graduates doing MacJobs!) -, are struggling to pay the rent and live surrounded by people in a similar situation, you may think, perfectly understandably, that bulging out of your jeans or having to hide your bingo wings are the least of your worries. And who the hell has the right to criticise you just because you don’t measure up to what are essentially middle-class norms?

I’d better stop there. I’m turning into a grumpy old woman!

PreciousBooBoo

5:33 pm
8 Nov 13
Permalink

Hello hermajtomomi and everyone else

Agree totally with your rant and the other comments.

It reminds me of someone I used to work with years ago when I was just a young girl in my first job. I was almost half the weight I am now but I have never been happy with my weight/figure and I used to be ‘teased’ about my weight/figure etc; but it was all supposed to be all just ‘in fun’ except I would be upset after the events.

The effortlessly slim girl used to say about anyone who had a weight problem; that they had ‘eaten all the pies’ which used to make my blood boil as I nibbled a ryvita….

Couscous

7:00 pm
8 Nov 13
Permalink

Hi all. Rocky and hermajtomomi, be careful because you may just have opened a major cultural debate here. (Not being judgemental by the way). I come from a deprived background (am now classed as middle class judged by income, job and social class. Not my choice by the way). I also worked among many deprived people of whom a significant number were and are overweight and suffer from a variety of related health problems. Rocky and hermajtomomi, you are so right with your comments re factors. I live in the North East of England where there are significant pockets of social deprivation. What I see is that many in this circle of deprivation are overweight, smoke, drink alcohol and use fast food take – aways on a weekly basis. I also discovered that some families do not even have a cooker in their home so cannot cook healthy meals. I also believe education is probably the main obstacle in the health of a nation. If you are in a deprived area with little chance of a job and prospects what is the point of focusing on your education?.
In the small town where my wife lived and where my mum in law lived for almost 70 yrs, in the main street there must be over 12 fast food shops in the space of its 400 yd length. There is little in the way of good job prospects. Social deprivation is a major factor in poor health, being overweight is one of them. However I do not think that it is a middle class “norm” or view. We need to educate and give some semblance of hope to those people and being healthy is a major goal for all of us.
But I would criticise those who just roll over, do nothing to help themselves in health terms when the evidence stares them in the face, smoking, for example and that is not a middle class view. It is not a lack of respect when seeming to be critical of parts of society but frustration I think, that it is allowed to happen and continue.
Does this sound like another rant?.
Good luck to you all.

toms mantis

7:17 pm
8 Nov 13
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Hi all. Just like to say there are plenty of well educated and well off people who are overweight, with prospects coming out of their ears. If being slim was a simple equation, more of us would be. There are complex issues involved in being fat apart from any mentioned above. Nobody should be judged about any part of their make up unless ALL the relevant details are known, and even then, it’s their own business. My rant.

rockyromero

7:41 pm
8 Nov 13
Permalink

@couscous
“But I would criticise those who just roll over, do nothing to help themselves in health terms when the evidence stares them in the face”

Criticizing does little or nothing to help situations.

It’s a human condition that may require support that is not totally obvious.

Fundamentally, people have positive intentions for themselves and others.

The results may not show that positive intent.

➰

hermajtomomi

8:08 pm
8 Nov 13
Permalink

Some very interesting stuff coming out here. So, as Annette tells us, BMI was a construct dreamed up by the insurance industry. This in my book makes it immediately suspect. On what statistics did they base their judgment? For example, when it comes to travel insurance a large proportion of this same industry STILL reckons that anyone of 65+ – or in some cases 60+ – is hopelessly feeble and doddery and likely to drop dead any minute should they set foot beyond their front door. Maybe a few generations ago they might have had a case, but as many of my fellow posters will affirm we are on the whole in far better nick than many 40-somethings were in the 1960s and 70s. It must be difficult where people in their 60s or more continue to work, as we are being encouraged to do, and may be called upon to travel on business.

Thank you, Couscous, for providing such eloquent back-up to the case I was attempting to make, but without the necessary first hand information.

Toms mantis, you are absolutely right. There are complex issues, many of which are never understood by the smug, judgmental individuals of the kind who set me off on my initial rant. You only have to read some of the back stories told by so many Fast Dieters. And it certainly isn’t a class issue. Just take a look at some of our (presumably well-educated) elected representatives on both sides of both Houses of Parliament.

Couscous

11:47 pm
8 Nov 13
Permalink

Hi all, have just got in from a visit to the gym and sauna. I was hoping for some positive comments. Many thanks for your responses. We are all correct in some of our comments and maybe less so in others. hermajtomomi, I think of Eric Pickles as being a hugely over weight politician but I do not know if his weight is due to medical conditions or to a penchant for over indulging the ice cream. I am 65, have my “old age pension” as my dad called it, still work two days a week, my choice, and have just done a 35 min cardio work out in the gym followed by a sauna. I hope I never “grow up” and remain fit enough to last for many years to come. Having said that I agree with most of the comments toms makes but Rocky, what about constructive criticism?. I believe that we do need to question, put people under pressure to look at themselves and their life styles and put over our views. If we retreat from such issues then many will go unchecked and our own individual health and life styles will be affected. In “Daily Telegraph” today there are a couple of articles of interest. One reports that (in the UK) one in four people fail to exercise for 30 mins per month. There is no clear link between poverty and fitness levels but noted that lack of fitness can shorten life expectancy by 5 yrs and put a strain on health services. In the same paper, p21 there is a report that the “US is to ban trans fats”. It is unclear when or how long this will take but it is recognised that trans fats being removed from foods could quote “prevent 20,000 heart attacks and 7,000 deaths each year” unquote. I am not saying I told you so, far from it. But have such moves not come from people willing to criticise someone or some organisation?. I totally respect all posters views and comments but we do need to question, criticise, confront, both individuals and organisations. Are all people so weak and at risk of criticism that we can no longer do this?. Not nastily or in an evil way but in a constructive, helpful, confrontational way?. We need it to grow, physically and intelectualy, to develop, move forward and to progress.
Sorry, I have been on an extended rant, I apologise.
Good luck to you all.

rockyromero

3:23 am
9 Nov 13
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@couscous

“, what about constructive criticism?. I believe that we do need to question, put people under pressure to look at themselves and their life styles and put over our views. If we retreat from such issues then many will go unchecked and our own individual health and life styles will be affected.”

I’m completely in agreement with most of what you said about questioning and holding people accountable, if they are receptive to it. I differ in the approach. Even the term ‘constructive criticism’ is contradictory. First building up, then tearing it down. Contradictory.

I believe we can only criticize if we have a vested interest in its success. If we are not vested, we can encourage change in a way that those that want to change accept ownership & responsibility for their actions.

” One reports that (in the UK) one in four people fail to exercise for 30 mins per month. There is no clear link between poverty and fitness levels but noted that lack of fitness can shorten life expectancy by 5 yrs and put a strain on health services. ”

Yes, there is truth to that. Those are symptoms and the root causes are more complex & has proven to be difficult to resolve. Society picks up the financial responsibility until it is resolved.

” I totally respect all posters views and comments but we do need to question, criticise, confront, both individuals and organisations. Are all people so weak and at risk of criticism that we can no longer do this?. Not nastily or in an evil way but in a constructive, helpful, confrontational way?. ”

We have better methods of communicating our differences with the proliferation of technology. This forum is a great example of how it could be done well.

It’s a question of who takes ownership for making the change. The one who critiques or the one who acknowledges that change must happen & takes the action for it?

It’s a complex topic that may be simplified by the right attitude.

My attitude is that we should learn what we can from a situation, uncover what may be root causes, and empower others to take action.

Being flexible along the time line.

➰

rockyromero

3:26 am
9 Nov 13
Permalink

@couscous

“, what about constructive criticism?. I believe that we do need to question, put people under pressure to look at themselves and their life styles and put over our views. If we retreat from such issues then many will go unchecked and our own individual health and life styles will be affected.”

I’m completely in agreement with most of what you said about questioning and holding people accountable, if they are receptive to it. I differ in the approach. Even the term ‘constructive criticism’ is contradictory. First building up, then tearing it down. Contradictory.

I believe we can only criticize if we have a vested interest in its success. If we are not vested, we can encourage change in a way that those that want to change accept ownership & responsibility for their actions.

” One reports that (in the UK) one in four people fail to exercise for 30 mins per month. There is no clear link between poverty and fitness levels but noted that lack of fitness can shorten life expectancy by 5 yrs and put a strain on health services. ”

Yes, there is truth to that. Those are symptoms and the root causes are more complex & has proven to be difficult to resolve. Society picks up the financial responsibility until it is resolved.

” I totally respect all posters views and comments but we do need to question, criticise, confront, both individuals and organisations. Are all people so weak and at risk of criticism that we can no longer do this?. Not nastily or in an evil way but in a constructive, helpful, confrontational way?. ”

We have better methods of communicating our differences with the proliferation of technology. This forum is a great example of how it could be done well.

It’s a question of who takes ownership for making the change. The one who critiques or the one who acknowledges that change must happen & takes the action for it?

It’s a complex topic that may be simplified by the right attitude.

My attitude is that we should learn what we can from a situation, uncover what may be root causes, and empower to take action.

Being flexible along the time line.

➰

piper

4:53 am
9 Nov 13
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felt a rant coming on- I’m chillin’

Couscous

9:04 am
9 Nov 13
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Thank you Rocky, interesting comments. Piper,…….. you said a lot there, I take note of what you said.
Good luck to you all.

hermajtomomi

10:50 am
9 Nov 13
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In the main, Couscous, I think we’re on the same wave-length. Like you, at 73 I’m still working freelance – which can mean anything for 0 to 50 or so hours a week. I’m back at uni part-time and am halfway through an MA, which one could call a marathon for the brain.

I don’t do the gym or sport – my hand-eye coordination is appalling and if there’s something to trip over my feet instinctively find it (not an age issue, at 16 I spent most of a post-O Level hiking holiday in the Lake District sliding down hills on my bum!), so such activities always leave me utterly depressed and discouraged. But I DO do a lot of walking. Whenever I do one of those longevity quizzes they tell me I should make it to 90+, despite being borderline obese. I’ve been working at that by the 5:2 method since February and, after a lifetime of trying, for the first time have succeeded – albeit modestly – in shifting more than a mere smidgen of flab. All this despite being able to do without or actively disliking so much of the bad stuff. I still have a way to go – sometimes I think I’m the ultimate plateau queen!

What this is all leading up to is my feeling that when you are on the receiving end, it is hard to distingush between the well-meant, kindly-constructive criticism that you propose and what can feel like condemnation of the type meted out by the horrid health Nazi who set off my initial rant. Would I be classified as smug, self-satisfied and ultimately irresponsible if my answer was “I’m doing the best I can”?

Auriga

11:36 am
9 Nov 13
Permalink

I agree with your first rant and your last paragraph here,
“What this is all leading up to is my feeling that when you are on the receiving end, it is hard to distingush between the well-meant, kindly-constructive criticism that you propose and what can feel like condemnation of the type meted out by the horrid health Nazi who set off my initial rant. Would I be classified as smug, self-satisfied and ultimately irresponsible if my answer was “I’m doing the best I can”?”
I feel a rant of my own coming on like ‘piper’ so I better stop now 🙂

hermajtomomi

12:43 pm
9 Nov 13
Permalink

I’d like to add a rider to my last post. Maybe if the criticism/advice comes from someone who also has/had weight problems and is on the lines of “this worked for me, it may possibly work for you” it is much easier to accept.It’s when natural-born stick insects try to tell me and those like me how to live our lives that I start to lose my rag.

rockyromero

12:57 pm
9 Nov 13
Permalink

@hermajtomomi
“I still have a way to go – sometimes I think I’m the ultimate plateau queen!”

” Would I be classified as smug, self-satisfied and ultimately irresponsible if my answer was “I’m doing the best I can”?”

Here’s my point: As we age and circumstances shift, we have a more difficult time in improving our health.

Many are in the ultimate plateau and quickly regressing. Universally, I believe everyone is doing the best that they can in their situations. Changing is not easy. Many of us, even with fasting, struggle because of many factors. Those that can manage their circumstances do succeed with losing weight through fasting.

However, our economic & social environments, that we live in, are contradictory to helping us to change. Many are stuck.

Constructive or destructive criticism will not help others to change. It’s overwhelming.

Once people, including myself, take ownership for making health changes in their lives, then it’s a start in the right direction. It’s a fragile start that many have had in the past with failure as a result. Any health interruption can dislodge the good intentions and progress.

As the saying goes, we are only that phone call away from toppling.

➰

toms mantis

6:03 pm
9 Nov 13
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Hermaj. I feel I want to say so much on this subject, but daren’t start because I won’t know when to shut up. Trust me that will be a rant! When people have written on this forum that they feel ashamed because they are overweight, then there is something wrong with society. The drain on the health service is not confined to fatness. Others require medication for “self inflicted” diseases etc., and they are shown sympathy. The overweight have become whipping boys. Preaching to someone about healthy diets and exercise isn’t going to have much effect. The more someone is browbeaten about their weight the more likely they are to feel bad about themselves, the less likely to feel valued and to do something about it. Of course we must take responsibility for our own action, but that has to come from us if we are to make any headway. Hopefully, this lifestyle will be the answer to some peoples problems. But it will take hard work.

hermajtomomi

11:38 pm
9 Nov 13
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toms mantis: An excellent rant saying a lot of things that needed saying. I can identify with so many of the issues you raise. However one of the advantages of getting on in years is that you get to a stage when you don’t give a monkey’s what the holier-than-thou brigade say to make those of us carrying bit of extra weight feel worthless. I have found other things about myself to be proud of (e.g. larger ladies – and men – often have beautiful relatively unlined faces well past middle age)and anyone who tries to turn me into a whipping boy is liable to be told to expletive deleted off. But it’s taken a while to achieve that degree of self-confidence and I continue to feel sad and angry on behalf of those who still suffer at the hands of the health fascists.

Tomorrow

4:21 am
10 Nov 13
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Hi, all. First I should declare that I have a Jeremy Vine ‘allergy’. His whining and sometimes hectoring tones, and his bigot-magnet BBC radio phone-in are bad for my ‘health’ (my anger level etc). I treat my ‘allergy’ by avoiding the programme. I’ve never phoned a phone-in – has anyone else here? Incidentally, Jeremy’s brother Tim Vine does gentle stand-up comedy, suitable for all ages. Tim Vine DVDs are good for my health: we watch together and laugh as a family. Sorry about that insular UK detail, but it’s good to laugh.

Second, I know that how much people eat compared to others and what they weigh compared to others, don’t always follow a simple formula. I gather it’s not generally a metabolic rate thing: heavier people work harder to do the basics, as they are carrying an extra load. As I have mentioned elsewhere, my wife had a gastric bypass last year.

Though she weighed much more than me, she ate MUCH less than I did – no pretending, no cheating, no self delusion in that. That helps me be a bit less judgmental about other obese people. People tend to treat my wife with much more respect, now that she is a normal weight.

Of course, we should all try to make the best of our situations. With poor prospects, depressing housing etc., I’d almost certainly comfort eat. If I’m alone, I’m much less inclined to cook than if (as is usual) my family is round me. I/we enjoy cooking food from scratch, from ‘good’ ingredients, which often though not always are relatively expensive ingredients. We have the time, energy, transport and motivation to shop for good ingredients, and to seek out the best value (best value that is often not found in the ‘default-setting’ supermarkets). I know good food doesn’t have to be cooked food. We eat out infrequently, and eat ready prepared meals or fast food infrequently. We sit together at the table (less so at breakfast, which I now usually skip).

We are privileged. The difference in life expectancy between rich and poor in many nations is appallingly wide, and in many places getting wider. Best wishes, to fellow IF folk, R

toms mantis

8:08 am
10 Nov 13
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Hermaj, well said. I am now 60, and do take the same attitude as you. Long live individualism! Fast well all.

rockyromero

9:30 am
10 Nov 13
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@tomorrow
“The difference in life expectancy between rich and poor in many nations is appallingly wide, and in many places getting wider.”

I thought that the life expectancy bubbles for most countries were continuing to elevate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

I’ve heard that a female born today in advanced countries can expect to live to 100 on the average. With technology, improved health strategies and medical advances, the same may extend to other parts of the world.

As we communicate better and improved distributions of foods begin to take place, it’s possible and probable that we will have food and nutrition standards continually improve.

With fasting, longevity may add 10 to 20 years to our lives.

➰

hermajtomomi

10:55 am
10 Nov 13
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Tomorrow. I’m not a Jeremy Vine fan either and. like you, think brother Tim is a much better, and very funny, bargain. I find JV particularly annoying when he puts on a whiny, weepy voice when dealing with “tragic” human interest stories. I just happened to catch the show while preparing an abstemious fast day lunch and the subject once again drew phone-ins from the usual bigotted suspects. You clearly understand first hand the problems that can lie behind excess weight and that often things are not as they might seem. Your wife is a lucky lady to have such a sympathetic husband. Best wishes to you both.

rockyromero

11:05 am
10 Nov 13
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@hermajtomomi
” I’m not a Jeremy Vine fan either and. .. I find JV particularly annoying when he puts on a whiny, weepy voice when dealing with “tragic” human interest stories. ”

I don’t know this JV that you speak of but I do know of the JVs of the world. They are bullies. Worse, if they are bullies with intent on entertaining in that manner.

On the flip side are the victims.

Victims who have succumbed to inaction or accept that bullying.

There is a 3rd posturing. It’s the Adult.

The Adult accepts responsibility and takes appropriate action.

Isn’t that which we have discussed here?

➰

piper

1:16 am
11 Nov 13
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Thanks, Couscous. Have also noticed you and, like many on the forum, think you are a rockstar!

Couscous

8:16 am
12 Nov 13
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Hello all. Piper, thank you but stop it, I am sooooo embarrassed. I was at my Health club last night having a sauna and read the following article in “The Independent” not a paper I normally read. The article was written by Yasmin Alibhai-Brown under the by line “The Largerfeld doctrine has spread to men”.
Quote… “I have been on a 5:2 regime for about 6 months – that is, two days on an almost impossibly small calorie intake of 500 calories, and normal eating on the other days. I have lost weight and feel fitter and better. So yes, eating less is do-able and brings results. But I really do object to the course, strident and noxious attacks on people who are over weight or obese, which can now mean as small a size 14 for women.
Last week on the Jeremy Vine show on BBC Radio 2 big mouth, commentator Nina Myskow was foul to a fellow guest who was happy to be big. It was horrible. The unattractive designer Karl Largerfeld has for years been rude about non-skinny females. French pro-curvy campaigners have now made an official complaint against these rants. Men, too, are seen as repulsive and somehow untrustworthy if they are portly. The Mayor of Toronto is in trouble for taking cocaine and for threatening behaviour, both caught on film. These transgressions are bad but he is also FAT – the worst crime of all.
New Jerseys re-elected Republican governor Chris Christie is also portrayed by body fascists as a sicko fattie.
Yes we need public policies to deal with obesity. But we have increasing numbers of drug and alcohol addicts too,and we dont publicly abuse them and treat them as freaks. Chubby people have always been bullied. Now, though, such bullying has become a moral crusade. Maybe I should get plump again to show solidarity. Bring me cupcakes”. Unquote.
What an article. I think she has been quietly browsing these posts. Well done all. You now have the National Press on your side.
Good luck.

hermajtomomi

10:24 am
12 Nov 13
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Thanks for sharing that, Couscous. I don’t always agree with Y A-B, but this time she’s spot on. It’s good to know that the quality press is with us.
Could it be that now smokers are in a minority the health fascists needed someone else to harangue for their evil ways and so pounced on the overweight? Before I gave up smoking 12 years ago – thereby making weight loss even more problematic, by the way -, I used to feel, as I crept out into the garden to accompany other pariahs, I would gain greater social acceptance as a paedophile or a purveyor of kiddie porn than someone who enjoyed the occasional ciggie after a meal. Now that I and so many others have packed it in, the smug and judgmental have turned their fire on those with (not always deserved) weight problems.

rockyromero

12:33 pm
12 Nov 13
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@hermajtomomi
“I crept out into the garden to accompany other pariahs, ”

Sorry that you have ever felt that way. If it wasn’t weight bullying then it would be a different type of bullying.

It’s a human frailty that is misused to control or dominate others.

Recognizing the bully, the victim and adult posturing in any situation is heading in the right direction.

Which one are you?

➰

hermajtomomi

12:54 pm
12 Nov 13
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Thanks for your concern, rocky. It was only as a smoker I felt like a pariah. I now concede that it was a bad habit, but hardly a capital offence. I always swore that if and when I did succeed in giving up I would never, ever turn into a health fascist vis-a-vis those still partaking of the weed. I’ve managed to keep to that. If ever I do entertain one of this now rare breed, I ask them to confine their smoking to one room in the flat – a nice, comfortable, welcoming room with a couple of candles to counteract the smoke – where I and any other tolerant guest can keep them company while they puff away.

As I said in a previous post, advancing years can bring with them the self-confidence to tell bullies of all types where to stick it!

toms mantis

1:09 pm
12 Nov 13
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Hermaj, well said. And J A-B. As you said, not my favourite commentator, but agree here. As an ex-smoker too I also understand about the smoking. I gave up ever so long ago, and indeed my weight issues increased then, although I already was a little overweight. For me, giving up smoking was really hard and it took 2 attempts before I gave up for good. Trouble is you can’t do that with food. You have to eat something. You stop smoking and you need never have cigs in the house again. Would it be easier to lose weight then if having food was a choice we could make?

rockyromero

1:22 pm
12 Nov 13
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@hermajtomomi
“It was only as a smoker I felt like a pariah.”

As a former smoker, I smoked when smoking was cool to do. Then came my asthma and allergies. I refused to make the correlation for a long time. Then I stopped.

Occasionally, I can be a smoker bully when I see others smoking on the street. I turn my head away from them.

It’s a sad reaction.

➰

hermajtomomi

1:30 pm
12 Nov 13
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You did well, tm. It took me 10 attempts, but over the years the stop-smoking aids improved beyond measure. It finally worked for me with a combination of nicotine patches, which I tolerated despite the fact that my skin didn’t like them and I lived smothered in calomine lotion, and a little toy ciggie. It also helped that my husband gave up too.

I’m also now teetotal, not for moral reasons but because when I gave up the fags, wine started to taste like vomit and G&T like something you would use to clean the loo. I still use wine and spirits in cooking, though. Funny though, how people applaud the non-smoker but the non-drinker is criticised as a killjoy – another example of bullying! I tell them if they’d like me to become loud, obscene and obnoxious and then throw up on their carpet, then they can try pressurising me into a drink.

rockyromero

1:31 pm
12 Nov 13
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@toms mantis
” Would it be easier to lose weight then if having food was a choice we could make?”

Yes, I do believe that having food is a conscious and subconscious choice.

The subconscious always wins and you and I and most eat what is unhealthy yet tastes good or is entertaining.

The key is to convince the subconscious of the right foods to eat.

We did the same with eliminating smoking in our lives.

Now for the experiment?

➰

hermajtomomi

1:43 pm
12 Nov 13
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I suppose, rocky, your asthma and allegies were a kind of blessing in disguise, in that they forced you to quit smoking. I never coughed, had breathing difficulties or any other smoking-related symptoms so I didn’t feel obliged to give up,which meant stopping didn’t even give me the comfort of “feeling better”, although I did feel virtuous. Twelve years on, no serious damage appears to have occurred. The raised BP and cholesterol – now hugely improved in both cases, no doubt thanks at least in part to 5:2 – started AFTER I had stopped smoking.

toms mantis

4:12 pm
12 Nov 13
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Rocky. Today, a fasting day for me, am really struggling. Haven’t caved in up to now and soon be tea time. First 3 months fasting, no problem. Last few weeks, awful. Hope it gets back to what I perceives as normal! Will try your suggestion next fasting day, Thursday.

toms mantis

4:21 pm
12 Nov 13
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Hermaj, no matter how many times it took you did it, and that’s what matters. I really enjoyed a ciggie but OH never smoked and when they went up in price then, enough was enough. Only reason I stopped in the end. I am not teetotal, but rarely drink. Sounds dead boring! Don’t smoke, don’t drink and try not to eat! Should be fit as a fiddle.

rockyromero

3:13 pm
13 Nov 13
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My friend Dan Clark died yesterday for me. That’s when I found out that he passed away months ago.

We had discontinued our business relationship a year ago after an unsuccessful attempt in a venture, however, our frienship continued as best as long distance allows us.

I remembered the picture that he took of the four of us, as partners, happily contemplating a bountiful future. It didn’t take for many reasons.

Our health was never discussed, other than the casual, “How are you?”. Dan was the larger man from a fat proportion viewpoint. He was obese. I don’t know details of his health. Now, I wish that I did know more about him and his health.

http://www.cutimes.com/2013/03/18/in-memoriam-credit-union-consultant-dan-clark

Would I have implored him to start 5:2 fasting, if I had known about it years ago?

I liked Dan.

➰

hermajtomomi

8:02 pm
13 Nov 13
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Very sad news about the death of your friend, Rocky. The good guys are getting fewer and further between. Sounds like Dan was one such. Please accept my condolences.

rockyromero

8:52 pm
13 Nov 13
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@hermajtomomi
“The good guys are getting fewer and further between. ”

Thank you for your kind words.

I felt a mixture of emotions and felt that I needed to express this.

This seemed the most appropriate place to share a memory.

➰

Couscous

9:04 pm
13 Nov 13
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Hi Rocky, sorry about the loss of your friend.
Best wishes.

toms mantis

10:05 pm
13 Nov 13
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Rocky, very sorry to hear about your loss. Thoughts are with you.

rockyromero

12:52 pm
16 Nov 13
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Thank you hermajtomomi, couscous and toms mantis for your thoughts.

As I was at the periodontist 2 weeks ago, he perceived a lision that he thought should have a biopsy check. It would have cost thousands for this test. I had agreed to this test until I was told the cost. Maybe it would heal by itself. It did. A momentary relief for me.

I still will do a deep cleaning procedure as a preventive dental hygiene.

Fresh in my mind from my friend passing away, I reflected on how trivial dental hygiene is in relation to the health of the rest of the body. Or maybe it’s the trivial health preventives that cumulatively keeps us alive.

Dental hygiene.

Feeding on the right foods.

Fasting periodically.

Exercising.

Emotions.

Each on it’s own may or may not be that important and yet together determines our longevity.

➰

toms mantis

12:19 pm
19 Nov 13
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Probably right Rocky. Each little thing affects another, affects another and so on. As they say about money, look after the pennies and the pounds will take care of themselves. So with your body.

hermajtomomi

8:05 pm
15 Jan 14
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I’m resurrecting this topic following an interview on today’s Woman’s Hour with Dr Krista Varady and Joanna Blythman, author of “What To Eat”. If you recall, Krista featured in Michael’s original Horizon programme and her every other day diet – book just published hence the WH interview – was one of the bases he used as he devised 5:2, which we all know and love, as a rather less punishing way to lose weight.

Joanna Blythman is a food writer who promotes healthy eating, which is fine and a lot of what she says makes excellent sense, but her remarks to the effect that a fast diet gives people permission to fast one day and eat vast amounts of unhealthy junk the next were patronising in the extreme. Does she think we are all morons?

Predictably, she claimed she had never dieted in her life and has remained slim by eating good, healthy, home-cooked food in moderation. Well, lucky old her, I thought. I’m prepared to accept advice on weight loss from people who’ve been there and done that, but I resent having to listen to some fortunate female who has no personal experience of the problem, because that’s the way she’s made.

It’s like me trying to lecture alcoholics about the error of their ways. I happen not to like booze, not for any moral or even health reason. After giving up smoking 12 years ago, I found it tasted nasty and still does. But it doesn’t mean I can take the moral highground.

sylvestra

8:30 pm
15 Jan 14
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Indeed! I wish the people who ‘review’ different ‘diets’ would actually READ the information they are given. I didn’t hear this programme but The Fast Diet/5:2 has been ‘reviewed’ on various programmes and in articles and it is patently obvious that some people don’t/won’t/can’t absorb the details and keep on insisting that, as one said ‘it’s a starve yourself one day, stuff yourself the next diet’.

As for those self righteous, patronising minxes (that was not the first word that came to mind) who have ‘never needed to diet because they eat properly’ – well I’m glad they’re not standing in front of me when they pontificate!

kindle

6:27 pm
10 Aug 14
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Hey herma, yea I would be annoyed by that ignorance too. I see we have similar interests, travel, studying and reading. Im reading some very interesting books on nutrition right now. Like to keep in touch? Ok if you dont want to….good luck anyway!