LITTLE VOICES – JOIN THIRD TIME LUCKY – NOW MAINTAINING

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LITTLE VOICES – JOIN THIRD TIME LUCKY – NOW MAINTAINING

This topic contains 65 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by  Third time lucky 6 years ago.

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  • FINALLY FEEL AFTER A MONTH OF UP 2 LBS, DOWN 2 LBS, THAT I CAN BE OFFICIALLY IN THE MAINTAINING CAMP!

    9 STONE TARGET REACHED AFTER 18 MONTHS DOING 5:2. TOTAL LOSS 39 LBS.
    1.5″ FROM BUST – 7″ FROM WAIST – 4″ FROM HIPS – 2.5″ FROM THIGHS – 1″ FROM NECK.
    BMI DOWN FROM 28.5 TO 23.8. TDEE DOWN FROM 1598 CALS TO 1433 CALS. CHOLESTROL DOWN FROM 5.8 TO 5.0

    NOW DEBATING IF I DARE CHANGE TO 6:1, OR CONTINUE WITH 5:2 TILL I HAVE REDUCED BY ANOTHER 2 LBS TO GIVE ME A BUFFER. I WILL JUST HANDLE IT ONE DAY AT A TIME AND BE MINDFUL OF WHAT I EAT ON NON FAST DAYS.

    WOULD LOVE TO HAVE YOU JOIN ME AND FIND OUT HOW YOU ARE MAINTAINING. TTL

    Well done! Your efforts and results are inspiring! I’m a newbie, so haven’t reached maintenance, though will be interested in reading others’ tips and experiences to help me on my way when I reach that point!

    Hi there, well done you indeed. I’m a newbie to the site with only a stone to go. Reached my goal of 9st last September only to put it all back on again during the winter, so I’m hoping that this time with encouragement online I’ll not only reach my goal again but keep it off.

    My present regime, Which I have been doing since June 1st, is four days fasting three days eating. I have an exercise bike and endeavour to cycle 7miles, which takes me 30 mins 7 days a week.

    My downfalls are chocolate and wine! I need to be able to get into my summer trousers by September when I go on hols.

    Well done TTL! I’m in the same boat as you – but still up 2lb/down 2lb like a yoyo. I’d like to think I could go to 6:1, but it’s looking as if 5:2 will be the new norm for me long term, if I want to maintain my current weight. And I haven’t even reached a ‘buffer stage’ yet. But congrats, & I wish you continued success.
    FSF

    Thanks for all the good wishes from you, sand nice to see some new names. One thing I have learned is to just keep doing it, no matter what the numbers say. We are away down south for three days tomorrow, and normally fast Mondays and Thursdays but can’t see there will be much opportunity to fast on Monday. The good thing is I can change it to another day, probably Tuesday, when we are driving back home, then I won’t have to eat any horrible motorway food. This WOL is so forgiving.
    Enjoy your weekend everyone. TTL

    Back from down south and after a 9 hour journey felt ravenous. Decided to stop along the way home to save cooking tonight. Ended up eating the most delicious fish and chips! Not quite what was supposed to happen, but what I really fancied.
    Decided for this week, I will do my normal fast day on Thursday and make this a 6:1 maintaining week, so we will see what happens. If it doesn’t work, then next week I shall do back to 5:2 till I feel more comfortable.
    This is a whole new regime for me, and quite difficult to let go of the old one.
    Anyone else struggling with this? TTL

    Hi TTL well done you! Sadly I cannot join you on this thread just quite yet as I have not reached my goal 🙁 Having said that I haven’t really been strict the the regime since March but thankfully the damage caused was limited! I am not “back on it” as they say and I am hoping to shift a few more pounds by the end of this month. I look forward to joining you in the autumn – there I have said it now so I must do it!!! :):):)

    Oops that should have read “I am now back on it!!!” 🙂

    Hey JFitzy – good to be in touch again. Sorry you feel you can’t join me just now, but you will get there. I have been consistently down over the last year mainly because I have pretty much eliminated carbs from my diet due to ‘leaky gut syndrome’. This has in a way made it much easier for me as the side effects of eating bread,cakes,biscuits,pasta, rice, potatoes sweets etc etc has a very unpleasant effect on me. I still struggle saying no to meringues, but make them a treat now.
    However, now I’ve reached 9 stone target, I am finding it a struggle to reduce by another couple of pounds to give myself some leeway when I have a blowout! o at the moment I am up and down by a couple of pounds per week around the 9 stone mark.
    Good luck to shifting your few more pounds, and look forward to having you join me here in the autumn, in the meantime, please feel free to drop in and keep in touch. Best wishes TTL

    Could you already been maintaining without meaning to TTL? Within a boundary of 2lb?

    I have ‘maintained’ a fluctuation of 3 or 4lb by fasting a couple of days every 2 or 3 months or so. No 6:1, just regular eating and a fast here and there where needed.

    Different strokes and all that but could be that it is easier than you think to maintain!

    Hello again TTL and JFITZY!! Congrats TTL – having followed some of you journey on the Little Voices forums, I know how hard you have worked.

    I have been AWOL travelling pretty much since April but am now home again. I am astounded that after all the eating, drinking, and being merry for the last few months I am only up 1kg! I put it down to the many kms of walking we do when in new places.

    My second fast day since getting home so I just dropped in for some inspiration.

    Hello again Chipmunk, glad to hear from you again. Well done for just gaining 1kg after all that time. I feel that this WOE has ingrained into my brain which foods to avoid, rather than the quantity, so it does make things much easier. Normally I would get through a big bag of crisps on a long car journey, but this time I just had fresh fruit and yogurt, then M&S salad in the hotel room. I have gained a pound since being away, but fasting tomorrow so will get rid of that by Friday. Great that you are back on 5:2 and I’m sure you will succeed getting back to where you were.
    Littlewing : must admit I hadn’t thought that I might be maintaining already. I have been so hooked on getting down into the 8 stones to give me leeway, I hadn’t thought of it that way. I do worry that if I give up two days fasting, that I will slowly creep up again, which is what has happened before. Don’t want to get back there again after all this hard work. Anyway, this week will be interesting to see what happens after just 1 fast day. Thanks for your input and well done you on managing to fast just occasionally. have a great day all. TTL

    Hi just dropping in to say hello and hi to chipmunk13 nice to hear from you again. Keep up the good work TTL x

    Hi CODA – good to see you here. How’s your progress?

    TTL, Sorry, I’m not maintaining – YET – so I shouldn’t be here, but can’t resist lurking… (and commenting occasionally)

    After a terrible night – awake at 3.30, gave up trying and got up at 5.30, feeling pretty jaded. I’m working today so not a good start. Had a good fast day and guess what – I’ve gained another pound! So much for 6:1. Guess I am just not ready for that yet, so back to 5:2 this week and get rid of the two pounds gained. Think it must be an accumulation of being away, plus Jaffa cakes at work. I can’t seem to get away with eating carbs at all. Especially the chocolate kind!
    Chipmunk, I’m sure you will soon be maintaining, then you can give me some advice how to do it.
    Coda too – there must be some of your followers getting close to target. Sure could use some help!
    I’ve been following your challenge Coda and what a lovely supportive group you have there. Condolences to those who gave lost loved ones, and get well wishes to those with health issues. Just keep doing 5:2. It’s the best thing since sliced bread!!! TTL

    Successful fast yesterday and on the way back down again to 9st 1lb. I am working again Sat/Sun/Mon, and think I will add in another fast on Saturday to try and get back to 9 stone. I will fast as normal again on Monday and Thursday next week. I am determined to do this, and to get in a position of not having to think about weight too much. I have read so much about weight and diet, clean eating etc. I know what to do, it is now about will power when it comes to those hard to refuse chocolate biscuits etc. Hope to be where I want to be by the end of this month.
    My heart goes out to those people in France, again. Time to start repatriating these mindless murderers, back to the desert!

    Just realised looking back at my weight chart that I have actually been on a plateau for the last five weeks. Think I might be moving off it now as am back down to 9st and 1/2 lb. not really a very good fast day yesterday as ended up having bone broth for lunch, then an big green apple, which seemed to spark the hunger pangs.. Just had a big a avail salad for dinner with berries and yogurt for afters,, but was ravenous through the night. Didn’t sleep well, but didn’t give in to raiding the fridge. Hopefully I can now think of getting into the eights again to give me that little buffer I want. Still doing 5:2 as I don’t feel ready to do 6:1 yet. OH is continuing to lose weight and is now down to 10st 8lbs. He can’t remember ever being this light. He now eats what he wants, bread,cake,ice cream etc. But is still doing 5:2. Have suggested that he now does 6:1. He really doesn’t need to lose any more. Not fair is it?. Still, I’m glad that he has supported me throughout this journey without flinching.
    Hope you are all doing well whatever stage you are at on this journey. If you get disheartened, just keep doing it. Things will happen eventually! TTL

    Hi TTTL just dropping in to say hello and catch up. You are doing well and I love your determination! If any on our group reach their target I will of course direct them here. Me joining you is a way off yet but one day lol. Take care x

    Hi Coda, great to hear from you. I keep following your thread and it’s good to see that most of your followers are losing the pounds. I would be grateful for company on my thread. It sure gets lonely just posting to myself. I can’t be the only one maintaining!?
    I’m delighted to now be in size 12 trousers as well as tops. Haven’t done that since teenage years ! My body shape seems to be changing yet again. Am now in size 4 1/2 shoes instead of 5’s ?
    Good luck to all, and just keep doing it! TTL

    Hi

    Well done you – we are almost finished Phase 2 but I have added a bonus part lol which is mixing it up a little and will continue into August. There may be some who will not want to continue with the bonus part – so why don’t you come on and post a link to your thread inviting any who have reached their target to join you. I will also remind any one as well about your thread. x

    Chipmunk – hello if you are still lurking. I am still here and albeit slowly, still progressing with a downward trend. Do drop in on my challenge thread if you are not off travelling somewhere round the globe. x

    Hi TTL – just dropping in to say hi as I have a long way to go before I reach my target. I hope this forum is still active when that day comes as I have reached my target once before but could not maintain it. What a wasted effort! I am determined not to let that happen again. Your stories reassure me that it is possible with 5:2.

    Great to hear from you HannahWatto. I am planning on being around for some time and if I can help others trying hard to get healthy and reduce in weight, I am happy to do so. I know how hard it can be, even though the plan is simple. It takes willpower and commitment, but it is only two days a week, and once you can accept that this is a way of life, it becomes easier.
    Hang in with what you’re doing, it will gradually happen, and even though you have a way to go, feel free to post here. If I can help you with anything, I will. TTL

    Thanks TTL. The biggest issue I find is the weekends. They are NFDs for me and I just go completely mad each time even though I give myself a firm talking to each Friday. What I can’t believe is that even with my overeating on weekends I am still losing weight on 5:2, albeit not as quickly as I would f I could just have better self control 🙂

    Hi HannahWatto – right back when I first started 5:2 I made a list of the foods I was eating that was not particularly nutritious (I didn’t eat what I consider junk food) and the amount of calories it was costing, keeping in mind the quantity too. It is so easy to go overboard with portion size. I then cut out one food completely ie crisps. I only have crisps now as a treat. (Once every 2/3 months) and gradually eliminated the high carb foods completely. I also started being honest about portion sizes. I physically weighed each portion as listed on Myfitnesspal to give me an idea of what my dinner plate should look like. I was shocked at the amount of potatoes I was eating, and enough ‘healthy’ berries to feed a family! I didn’t think I would ever be able to eat less than I was, but your stomach shrinks and you will not want to eat so much.
    Also, when I knew what I was eating during the day,, I would fill in myfitnesspal before, then if I ran out of my calorie allowance, I just reduced the amount of carbs before I ate them! I fill in this app every day, which keeps me in control. Hope this makes sense and will help you. TTL

    Hello, I’m hoping to join you in September to learn how to maintain. I have about four pounds to go and am still on the Coda challenges. See you soon!

    Hi Ciren 2 – looking forward to you joining me when you get to target. Hopefully there will be more joining me when Coda’s challenge finishes. It would be great to have more people posting here. Hope all goes well for you all. TTL

    Hi to anyone following me. Have managed to get away again to the west coast, and hurray we had fantastic weather all the time. Beautiful part of the country when the sun is shining. Alas, went a bit mad with eating and returned home with an extra 3 pounds! I’m still doing 5:2 and have managed to get rid of it and am back down to 9st and 1/4lb. I am so close to getting down to 8st 12lbs, I am determined to do it! I feel as though I am up against a brick wall just now, but am hoping my pig-out and subsequent loss has kick started things again. Have to say I just love being in size 12 clothes and through the summer have picked up some lovely new clothes in the sales. About to embark on yet another ConMarie session with my clothes as I have been hanging on to things with the intention of doing some alterations, but to be honest, sometimes you just have to let things go. We are thinking of moving to a smaller house in the next couple of years, so want to start going through everything now rather than leaving things till the last minute. I feel a big session coming on thanks to ConMarie.
    Hope things are going well for everyone in Coda’s challenge. Must admit I haven’t been following so much, but look forward to some of you joining me soon. TTL

    Hello Ttl: Still not here….would you believe, I still have 3 or 4 pounds to go. I’m going onto DebbieQ’s September challenge….determined to get rid of the last couple of stubborn pounds (plus two extra for leeway) and onto MAINTENACE very shortly.
    Currently, for the next two weeks I am planning alternate day fasts (hopefully my specialist 36-hour water-fasts) to kick those last pounds into touch, eh? See you soon.

    TTL: Hello, I’m officially HERE!
    I’ve reached my target….I am also sticking on the September Challenge as I cannot be complacent. I am two pounds below target after my fast-day yesterday and hoping to remain on target after an eating day today.
    Currently I’ve been fasting on 36-hour water fasts 3 x per week to get to this happy point. So I’ll have to experiment on what I can get away with now. Non-fasting days have always been my problem in that I CAN’T STOP EATING!

    Way to go Ciren2! It’s a great feeling isn’t it, to reach goal. The difficult part is maintaining it!
    I have to admire your tenacity at sticking to water fasts three times a week. I have always just done 5:2 according to Dr M’s book, just eating a meal at night on fast days. I have managed to get to goal without too much hardship, although it has probably taken me a lot longer.
    It really is a case of just trying different things. I tried 6:1, but immediately put on a couple of pounds. So I am now back to doing 5:2 the way I always do, and eventually hope to get to 8st12lbs, to give me a couple of pounds to play with on the indulgence days. I seem to be maintaining between 9st and 9st 2lbs at the moment, although this has come down slightly. occasionally I have a couple of days under 1200 calories just for a boost. However I then blow it like yesterday when I had a chocolate brownie and a meringue in the same day! (What am I doing?)
    Good luck with maintaining Ciren, I’m happy to have someone to talk to on this thread – its been pretty lonely! There must be others from Codas challenge that are near to target? Come on over and join us. TTL

    I had to step up a bit because doing 5:2 as recommended, I hit a plateau and couldn’t shift the last half stone or so. I am hoping, with time, to train my body to maintain on a less onerous regime! The proof will be in the pudding…ha…ha!

    Hi Ciren:

    I think you are saying you hope to train your body to maintain its lower weight while being able to eat more than you have been eating.

    One of the hardest things for a dieter to come to understand and appreciate is how few calories the human body needs to operate without gaining weight. Until that understanding is absorbed and a decision is made that you will just have to eat the new, lower amount of food to keep your weight loss ‘off’, you will fail – you will start eating more than you need to eat and regain your lost weight.

    If you go to the maintenance thread you will see the successful maintainers are fanatics about their weight. They weigh daily, immediately restart 5:2 when they go above their upper ‘limit’, even carry scales when they travel so they don’t overeat on holiday. Once you have been overweight and lost it, you will realize the ‘losing it’ part was easy – it is the remainder of life challenge to keep it off that is hard!

    Good Luck!

    I have always maintained that you have to stick to a regime that is comfortable for you, and that is doable for the rest of your life if necessary, and lets not forget that this is for keeping healthy, not just for weight loss.
    I work on the basis that I can and do 5:2 regularly, without any hardships, and would if necessary carry on with this regime, albeit, I will try 6:1 at some point.
    I understand that you Ciren have done three waterfasts per week to get weight loss moving again, and you have achieved where you want to be. Perhaps now is the time to just to go back to bog standard 5:2 and let your body settle down. Yes, you may increase a little again, but the fact that you are regularly cutting out a lot of calories per week, will mean that over a period of time, you will continue to lose weight.
    I have to say that things have slowed down considerable for me. Whereas before I could lose a pound a week, now I am lucky if I lose 1/2lb per week. The thing is, my weight is still reducing, and when I get to 8st12lbs, I will then change to 6:1 and see how I get on.
    Well done Ciren for reaching your target, and anyone else that has got there. Now the hard work begins!!! Ha Ha! TTL

    Hey thanks for the good wishes TTL. During this week just gone by I’ve fallen slightly by the wayside as I am on holiday from work. Being at home turns me into an eating machine!
    I am two pounds above my target, but I’ve done well today (so far) and stuck to a good long fast which I hope to maintain until a lovely breakfast tomorrow morning.
    My ultimate aim would be to maintain on only fasting one (or maybe) two days per week. However I do realise I must be ever vigilent and increase non-fast days only s-l-o-w-e-l-y.
    I am also experimenting with apple cider vinegar which, I believe , helps control blood glucose and cholesterol levels. An acquired taste!

    Hi Ciren
    I too take cider vinegar. 1 teaspoon plus one teaspoon raw honey in a little warm water every morning before breakfast. It’s more palatable that way. How are you getting on?
    I have been up and down again over the last few days. Got down to 8st 13.5 last week, only to put some on again. Weigh in today after yesterdays fast day I am now at 9 stone exactly. Happy with that. I am finding the days I work difficult as we have a staff room which seems to be stuffed with cakes, biscuits, chocolates, crisps etc for us all to eat. I have succumbed to choccie biccies recently which I had cut out altogether, so am not well pleased with myself. They seem to just jump into my mouth!!!
    I have read recently that if you crave chocolate, you are lacking magnesium in your body. Strange, as I have been taking magnesium supplements till I ran out last week, lo and behold, that’s when the craving kicked in. I’m off to the health shop today to buy more mag supps!!!.
    Hope you are finding things a little easier now you are maintaining. It does take a bit of juggling, but don’t get disheartened. The trick is not to let the mind think – Oh well I’ve reached target, I can eat anything I want now!!.
    As you say, the eating days are the days to be vigilant. Good luck with it.
    TTL

    Hi TTL,

    I think you are negating the effect of taking cider vinegar by taking it with honey. Honey is just 85% sugar, so youre getting a big sugar hit. The vinegar helps reduce the rate of glucose uptake. Net effect? They probably cancel each other out. Try taking it neat, you’ll get used to it.

    Magnesium, eat a handful of pumpkin seeds as your treat instead of biscuits. I have them neat or with almonds and high fat greek yogurt.

    Hello all maintainers. Here I am still at my goal. Yippee! Over two weeks now, I think.
    I find I want to stay on the challenges because I need the discipline, logging in each day, being accountable, reading the posts of others for inspiration, and hopefully adding my own encouragement to people.
    I agree with bigbooty that honey, being just SUGAR, is best avoided. I glug my vinegar down in one in a glass of water each day…yuk!
    My goal now is to try and cut sugar right down. I am an addict, so not easy. However I can eat my morning porridge with NO sugar now. Full cream milk. I’ve replaced a lot of my sweet and chocolate eating with nuts.I used to think I didn’t like them, because of their powdery texture…but that was just a prejudice…I DO like them after all! Almonds and walnuts.

    Hi uk day 5 ha ha just dropping in to say hello. Do call in onto our October challenge. Hope all is good with you?
    Ciren what about lemon and vinegar – would that make it more palatable perhaps?

    Hello there Coda!
    I am able to drink the apple cider vinegar ok, about a tablespoon in a glass of water, once a day. Not the best taste in the world, but nothing I can’t handle! Thanks for the suggestion but I fear that adding lemon would make it an real acid bath for my poor old teeth.
    Good luck on the October Challenge….I love these challenges for the discipline they give….thanks for starting them in May. Wholly instrumental in achieving my goal weight after 25+ years of fatness.

    Excellent well done you and one of these months I will join you. Just wait for me?

    Hi all, sorry haven’t posted for a while. Seem to be doing more hours at work. Love the job, but find I do get tired easily after doing three days in a row. Still, its always nice on payday, when I can afford to buy clothes that actually fit me. Delighted to say that I too have been maintaining my weight at 8st 13lbs for the last three weeks. Am still doing 5:2 and like Ciren, I like the discipline of reading posts etc. Still want to lose 1 more pound to give me that couple of pounds leeway when I lose the plot. Although I have to say that my eating habits have changed so much now that I cant see me ever going back to the way I ate before. My portion sizes have reduced, and the amount of sugar gone way down. I do still take cider vinegar with honey, as I dislike both intensely, but accept that both offer amazing benefits, and this is the only way I can get them down, which I think is better than not taking them at all.
    Well done Ciren on sticking at goal. I’ve been here now for over two months. Its the only thing I’ve tried where I’ve actually remained at goal f more than a month. Keep on doing it Coda and all. It’s just a routine you get into, your body does the rest! Best wishes to all. TTL

    Coda: Yes, I will wait….and, sure enough, you’ll get there. xx
    Third time lucky: Well done for keeping at your goal weight…I suppose it’s a matter of experimenting, really. I do hope to be able to do it on either one, or (max) two fast-days per week. My eating is actually quite haphazard at the moment, depending on how stressed I feel. I am lucky that my weight has remained at goal for just over a month so far. More luck than design anyway!!
    I DO value sticking on the challenge threads, it helps a lot with motivation.

    Hi TTL you haven’t posted for a while – everything ok?

    Hi Coda, Ciren and everyone else. Hope things are going well for you all.
    Yes Coda, everything is OK and sorry for not checking in more often. I have been so busy at work as I cover for holidays and illnesses as well as my own shifts, it’s almost been full time for the last few weeks. Very tiring, but love it and am looking forward to the Christmas buzz. Apparently it’s very busy from now till the 25th!
    I have managed to get down to the 8st 12lbs (124lbs) that I was aiming for, and at one point was down to 8st 11.5lbs. I’m still doing 5:2, but on the second fast day allowing myself a very light lunch, but skipping breakfast so I’m getting a 12 hour stretch without food, which I think is helping me to maintain. It really is just a case of experimenting, but I’m delighted that I am holding steady and not packing weight back on again as so often happened in the past.
    How are things with you all. Great to see the challenges are ongoing. Amazing to think that all this started with Upagumtree putting out a challenge to a few of us, and it’s grown and grown worldwide from there. I shall be catching up with her in December for a get together, so it will be great to have a 5:2 catch up again.
    Best wishes to everyone on this journey, and if I can give any advice to you all it’s this. All you have to do is buy Dr M’s book, and follow it to the letter! Simple! I have lost three stone since Jan 2015, lost lots of inches all over and down from size 18 to size 12. Loving it! And the compliments from people I haven’t seen for a while are worth it all. Good luck! It works if you work it!!! TTL

    Just dropping in the say a quick “hello”…to the maintainers. Hope all is well with you.
    It’s two and a half months since I reached my goal weight (after 25 years overweight) and, mostly, I’ve been ok. Sometimes I get a bit stressed and panic that I’m out of control on feeding days and find fasting elusive, but, right now, I feel more on track, sticking with the challenges (November now)and fasting two (sometimes three) times a week.
    Rather than do 36-hour water-only fasts, I’m currently finding I need a breakfast each day. A mental boost for long hard days on the Christmas mail at work!

    Hi TTL just dropping in to wish you a lovely Christmas and a happy and healthy New Year
    xo

    Hello Coda and everyone else on this forum. Sorry I haven’t been posting lately but have been so busy at work. Every time I think I have a day off, they call me in! I don’t mind too much as I know it will slow down after Christmas .
    I do hope everyone is on track and staying true to the plan. Over the last four months I have hit 9 stone just five times, every other weighin I have been 8 stone something which I am delighted about. I am still careful of what I eat although a few chocolates do creep in ocassionally. I still keep track on Myfitnesspal so I don’t overdo things. I am finding that if I fast one day a week , then on the second fast day I don’t have breakfast, but then a bowl of soup for lunch and a light evening meal, this keeps me within my limits.
    I have had a ball this winter replacing clothes, and for the first time in 40 years I bought a clingy, knit dress for the winter, and I feel a million dollars! No lumps or bumps, And with my killer boots I feel really trendy! ( possibly for once in my life! Haha!). I love this way of eating.
    I still have a few health issues with immune system and gut problems, but find if I stick to my new way of eating (gluten free, sugar free) (low carb, high fat) then i am a lot better.
    Do hope everyone is fit and well going into the festive season, and wish you all a very Merry Christmas, and a Peaceful and Happy New Year. TTL xxx

    Hello TTL hope you had a lovely Christmas and a very happy and healthy New year to you. x

    How did you manage over Christmas?

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