Advice Sought for starting Fastday diet

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Advice Sought for starting Fastday diet

This topic contains 15 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  Malloy 8 years, 10 months ago.

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  • Just about to head off on the 5:2 diet after a couple of weeks of exercise and low calorie uptake. I have dropped about 3 kilos in that time and have stabilized at around 80 kilos with another 4-5kgs to lose.

    By nature I am a renunciate, finding it easier to not drink any alcohol rather than a little. Same with cigarettes. For that reason I think it might suit my mentality to fast totally over a 24 hour period. My concern is that I will start to metabolize protein rather than fat.

    I am doing daily resistance training in an attempt to rebuild my body but again, will the muscle gain be compromised by doing a total fast? Should I concentrate on one goal at a time?

    Advice much appreciated.

    I have found it difficult today and its not even a fast day.
    My second day on the diet and have just sneaked in a glass of concentrated orange juice and some roasted peanuts.
    Feel bloated now…is it all down hill from here.
    Yesterday was easier somehow.

    Malloy,

    You are not going to metabolise protein (muscle) over a 24 hour period. Well Im assuming that your body fat isn’t below 10% at the moment? As long as the exercise you do is at a low to moderate level (about 25-30% of what you can do as a maximum when doing cardio exercise) then you will be burning very little glycogen (stored sugars in your muscles). It will mostly be glucose (in your blood) and stored fats. So an hour of brisk walking or gentle bike riding is perfect. If you want to build up muscle mass then that is slightly different. You need to stress your muscles at close to your limit with some reps. That really isn’t a cardio progam, although it could be depending on what you do to stress your muscles. Give your body some time to recover (2-3 days) eat some protein (lean meat, tuna) and repeat.

    Seefood,
    Sounds like you needed a sugar hit? To give yourself a fighting chance you really need to give up sugar. Easier said than done as sugar is very addictive. The longer you can stay on the 5:2 the easier it will be to give up sugar. Cant stress how important it is to give up sugar. I love almonds but have them raw, uncoated without anything. Eat an orange or apple instead of the juice.

    Thank you Big Booty. Sounds good advice. Looks like an heading off on a more extended fast, perhaps two days in one, breaking it at 5pm on the second day with protein and veg. I’ll just do some gentle exercise as you suggest and then weight train when I get back into feasts day. Then repeat after 5 days. Does that sound reasonable? I just prefer the more extended fast I think.

    on 5:2 one is actually fasting for 36 hours.

    Evening after a meal stop eating go to bed. Wake up fast all day, during which one can have 1/4 of your TDEE. Go to bed wake up and eat normally. During the 36 hour fasting phase you are extremely unlikely to lose any muscle mass.

    If you water fast only during that period you do kick in an extra 400/600 calories being used, zero caloric intake.

    It has been shown that maximum high intensity aerobic exercise for 3 minutes while fasting will increase weight loss.

    High protein diets increase the levels of IGF-1 which is a required hormone for gaining muscle. Increased levels of IGF-1 are also an indicator for certain cancer risks. How much this risk is I don’t know and I don’t think there is enough evidence to show categorically how great the risks are. There are studies that say from 4 to 100 times greater.

    While fasting lowers IGF-1 which leads to increased longevity and lowers the risks of cancers. Those persons with no measurable IGF-1 are smaller than normal and do not gain muscle as normal either, though cancers in these cases are almost unheard of.

    So a double edged sword. One can be lean and live longer or have more muscle mass and not live so long.

    Thank you QO, very concise and interesting. I take your point about the 36 hour fast. I am extending it thru the second day until dinner time, maybe 5 pm, breaking with a small meal of vegetables and lean protein. It is just an easier way for me to fit fasting in with my lifestyle. I havent acheived it as yet mind you. Still day One.

    I will consider the issue with IGF-. I hadn’t intended to be a bodybuilder, just to restore more muscle mass to counteract effects of ageing and increase mebaolic rate. It might be that HIIT with weights might achive the same?

    Off to the gym to see if I can manage some high intensity aerobic activity in this fasting state.

    Thank you again for your information. Very helpful.

    That is how I do 5:2 extend to the following evening meal and I try to make it lighter. Braised chicken breast or pork loin, lean a full 2 cups of steamed vegetable and one small serving of steamed potatoes just for carbs. I do like wilted soured spinach and extra roasted cashews. Plenty of watermelon. Lemon water and 10 vegetable juice.

    For health reasons my exercise is light for the most part. I do push weights with my legs in the extreme. 10 reps with the highest weight possible and 10 bench presses again with the max weight I can control. Aerobic exercise of high intensity is beyond me, though I have been trying a stationary bike and I’ve got it to 1:45 min max output before my body gives out. I figure raising my heart rate and sweating is going to have to do for now.

    if you are looking to keep your IGF-1 low don’t use sauna or steam. It is possible to raise IGF-1 4 to 5 times normal just by doing two heat cool heat cycles. Double just by 30 mins in the sauna.

    So much to learn and much of it seems to contraindicate another area of science. Straight 5:2 and stay within your TDEE will work, it may not be fast but it is steady over time.

    Good luck with your new direction and pattern.

    Hello QO. You asre extremely generous with your knowledge and I am grateful. You are actually helping me with my planning greatly. There is one thing you say which confuses me:

    “if you are looking to keep your IGF-1 low don’t use sauna or steam. It is possible to raise IGF-1 4 to 5 times normal just by doing two heat cool heat cycles. Double just by 30 mins in the sauna.”

    I dont really understand the term heat cool heat cycles. Could you explain please?

    ….. two 15-minute sauna sessions at 100°C (212°F) dry heat separated by a 30-minute cooling period resulted in a five-fold increase in growth hormone.1,15 However, what’s perhaps more amazing is that repeated exposure to whole-body, intermittent hyperthermia (hyperthermic conditioning) through sauna use has an even more profound effect on boosting growth hormone immediately afterward: two one-hour sauna sessions a day at 80°C (176°F) dry heat (okay, this is a bit extreme) for 7 days was shown to increase growth hormone by 16-fold on the third day……

    This from http://fourhourworkweek.com/2014/04/10/saunas-hyperthermic-conditioning-2/

    There are more studies out there that are reporting very much the same thing.

    I still use the sauna but for only one heat cycle followed by a cool plunge once per week. Feels good on my joints and I am trying to keep my IGF-1 down.

    Hi Malloy,

    Yep sound reasonable to me. I actually do my two fast days consecutively, Mon Tue and its just a water fast. Very close to zero calories. So I go about 60-65 hours without food. I just have a couple of coffees and maybe a nibble of something. Im in no way advocating that anyone else do it this way. You have to find what works for you and stick to it. This works for me. When I first started I wasn’t able to do my bike rides on my fast days but now its not a problem, as long as I don’t try and ride at close to my maximum. I also used to get headaches as my brain was screaming for glucose. (Brain can only use glucose as its energy source). I think once you have been doing 5:2 for a while the body gets pretty efficient at converting fat back into glucose.

    Yes BB. Just back from a light gym session that involved some stretching and bike-riding that made me puff intermittently. Thats all I’ll do for a while. Unlike you, I think I’ll break the fast at meal time on the second day rather than pushing through til the next morning. Thank you very much for your information.

    and thank you QO. Not a great sauna lover but I’ll try the way you suggested. This is all about health and peace of mind to me after post heart attack depression and slumber.

    I think its over to me now to just set a pattern of 5:2 and observe the effects.

    Hi big:

    The brain can also use ketones as fuel. The headaches usually come from lack of water or salt.

    Malloy – I think you are right in doing 5:2 and waiting to see what happens. Here are some tips that might help: https://thefastdiet.co.uk/forums/topic/the-basics-for-newbies-your-questions-answered/

    Good Luck!

    Thank you very much to everyone for this feedback. I think I am reassured now and confident in the way forward.

    Hi sim,

    Yeah I never used to be a big water drinker. It used to be mostly juice. Have started drinking mostly water and veggie juice (slightly better than OJ and apple juice). Love my Italian carbonated mineral water now.

    I suffered a series of heart attacks, 9 from Sept through Dec 1999,I “died” during two of them and was not expected to survive several, I was 46.

    The heart attacks were due to scaring and then clogging vessels. Exacerbated by a toxic life pattern. Afterwards I was pretty mentally messed up for some time. At the time I was not overweight, on the heavy side for age and height but not considered overweight.

    I did start putting on weight after my MI’s … go figure.

    I started searching for calm and inner … something. Meanwhile gaining weight. Food as comfort. Stopping smoking really packed on the pounds so then I started “diets”. None ever worked.

    I began 5:2 a year ago and the pattern of eating suits me. I’ve tweaked it for me. This pattern of eating isn’t fancy and it might not be fast enough for some but slow and steady works for me.

    You’re on your way and you will be surprised at how easy it can be.

    Quiet One

    That sounds like an extraordinary series of events. My heart attack was at a later stage of life after serious stress. The enormity of the near-death experience has only really hit me of late I think.

    I am on my second day of a full fast. After some queasiness this morning I find myself encouraged to continue on for a few more days. I am walking gently and actualy enjoying the rest from eating. It seems a lot of people kickstart the 5:2 in this way and I admit to feeling quite well positive.

    Must say, the feedback I have received from people on this forum creates a very supportive environment. I do have a naturopath friend available by phone who fasted back to health from chronic illness many years ago.

    Thank you

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